Martial agent looking for a new club for him

BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Bollocks.

Every fan supports the club, every fan has players they like and dislike - some fans moaned at Maguire last year for turn of pace, some moaned at McTominays ability, some moaned about James’ shooting, some moaned about Lindelofs physicality and plenty moaned about the attitude/workrate of Pogba and Martial.

Leave the insinuated racism comments out of it.
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What stands out to me about people's treatment of Martial is that poor performance is treated as evidence that he's lazy or sulking - i.e. that there's some kind of problem with his character. And then people are saying that selling him is necessary for our team, as if he is incapable of contributing, which is palpable bollocks. And they ignore or ridicule any argument that says that he might be useful to us.

I wouldn't say racism, that's too strong. More like unconscious bias.
 
GreenFieldsGoldenBarley said:
What stands out to me about people's treatment of Martial is that poor performance is treated as evidence that he's lazy or sulking - i.e. that there's some kind of problem with his character. And then people are saying that selling him is necessary for our team, as if he is incapable of contributing, which is palpable bollocks. And they ignore or ridicule any argument that says that he might be useful to us.

I wouldn't say racism, that's too strong. More like unconscious bias.
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This is not about his poor form, it was about a lack of effort during that form, United fans tend to forgive a lot if you look like you are putting the effort in. People claim its Martials style, but it certainly looked like he couldn't give a rats arse about playing for United. Only Martial will know what was wrong with him, was he demotivated by having to fight for his place, was he being asked to play differently, was there another problem? Fact is he got a lot of minutes and lots of opportunities to fight his way back into form and rarely looked like he was making an effort. People have never said he doesnt have talent, that much is clear, its whether he has the desire is what people question, and the evidence was last season that his effort was lacking. Martial may be one of those players who has to be in a run of confidence to churn out performances, some players can fight through bad spells, Martial didn't and he never looked like he was getting better.
 
Be interesting now that Lukaku has signed for Chelsea, will Inter go for Martial. Interesting that Utd have put out stories in press that Ole has said Martial is not going anywhere. Is that really true or are we trying to force Inter's hand to do a deal quickly, thinking they have stolen a player Ole wants. Difficult to judge at this stage, but we will find out shortly.
 
Redcy said:
This is not about his poor form, it was about a lack of effort during that form, United fans tend to forgive a lot if you look like you are putting the effort in. People claim its Martials style, but it certainly looked like he couldn't give a rats arse about playing for United. Only Martial will know what was wrong with him, was he demotivated by having to fight for his place, was he being asked to play differently, was there another problem? Fact is he got a lot of minutes and lots of opportunities to fight his way back into form and rarely looked like he was making an effort. People have never said he doesnt have talent, that much is clear, its whether he has the desire is what people question, and the evidence was last season that his effort was lacking. Martial may be one of those players who has to be in a run of confidence to churn out performances, some players can fight through bad spells, Martial didn't and he never looked like he was getting better.
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And we turned down an offer of £50 millin for him! I have a lot in faith in Ole but his desire to hang on to Martiall, Jones, Pogba and others baffles me, we dont need them.
 
redmanx said:
And we turned down an offer of £50 millin for him! I have a lot in faith in Ole but his desire to hang on to Martiall, Jones, Pogba and others baffles me, we dont need them.
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I don't believe for 1 second we were offered 50 million for him. Inter are broke and selling players to balance the books, they are signing Dzeko for 100 Lire and a plate of Gnocchi to replace Lukaku. If Inter did come in for Tony it would be something daft like a 2 year loan for 5 million a season with an option to buy at the end of the second year for a further fee which they will almost certainly never exercise.
 

It's not that he doesn't understand movement.

To me it looks like Martial believes in a minimalist approach to football. Few shots, few dribbles, little aggression(the biggest problem), little closing down etc.

I don't know why this is, I feel how he looks playing football is to him more important than what actually works.

If he just did more of everything he'd be twice the player. Take more shots, be aggressive, go out of your way to annoy a centre back. Then the talent can come through. It doesn't matter how much talent you have if you simply don't apply enough quantity.

But it's not his style. He reminds me of Berbatov, they have this urbane sort of ideal they seem to aspire to.

Great if you're an interior designer but they're not. They're paid to run around on grass. So best get running.
 
Tony Martial will get 20 goals for us this season. I think he will have been really disappointed with his return after being in such good form the year before.

I know it may not look like he cares, but surely deep down he wants to be scoring lots of goals for a successful United team. With Rashford out for a few months he can hit the ground running and remind fans of the special player he can be.
 
redmanx said:
And we turned down an offer of £50 millin for him!
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£50m is a fair price today, but during this season his value may increase. I can’t see much of a downside to Martial’s price valuation at £50m, especially when Lukaku was sold for double price.

It’s CF-shortage in international football, and I’ll be surprised if the situation change dramatically within 1y.
 
If he stays, we should give our full support to him. He has specific deficiencies in his game that if turned around could make him a star player in the league. Hopefully he picks up on those faults or is happy being rotated across the attacking line. Having him compete with Greenwood and cavani could give us a rotation advantage up top and give Greenwood the time to become our 9.
 
Back To Madeira said:
Tony Martial will get 20 goals for us this season. I think he will have been really disappointed with his return after being in such good form the year before.

I know it may not look like he cares, but surely deep down he wants to be scoring lots of goals for a successful United team. With Rashford out for a few months he can hit the ground running and remind fans of the special player he can be.
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he isnt fit enough to start yet, did you see him the other day? Its going to be 5 or 6 weeks before he is fit, and thats assuming the issue is fitness.
 
M Bison said:
It was an honest question, thought you’d seen something. I’d assume it’s that we can’t find a buyer willing to pay for him/pay his wages but guessing in the same way you are.
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To be honest, I thought Ole had moved Jones out, or was about to, so I checked the United website and hes in the squad for the coming season after recently signing a new contract. Its utterly unbelievable and Im very disappointed in Ole and only hope that his hands were tied re Jones, Martial, Lingaard, Pogba and others who are either simply not good enough or simply dont want to be at United.
 
Back To Madeira said:
Tony Martial will get 20 goals for us this season. I think he will have been really disappointed with his return after being in such good form the year before.

I know it may not look like he cares, but surely deep down he wants to be scoring lots of goals for a successful United team. With Rashford out for a few months he can hit the ground running and remind fans of the special player he can be.
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Yes, he might play well, for a while.
 
tjb said:
If he stays, we should give our full support to him. He has specific deficiencies in his game that if turned around could make him a star player in the league. Hopefully he picks up on those faults or is happy being rotated across the attacking line. Having him compete with Greenwood and cavani could give us a rotation advantage up top and give Greenwood the time to become our 9.
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Like most supporters I give my entire support to our players...until it becomes clear that they dont carte or dont want to be at United; tickets are not cheap so though I dont expect every player to run his guts out every second of every match I do expect them to at least try.
 
redmanx said:
Like most supporters I give my entire support to our players...until it becomes clear that they dont carte or dont want to be at United; tickets are not cheap so though I dont expect every player to run his guts out every second of every match I do expect them to at least try.
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But how can you seriously say Martial doesn't try?
 
Marwood said:
It's not that he doesn't understand movement.

To me it looks like Martial believes in a minimalist approach to football. Few shots, few dribbles, little aggression(the biggest problem), little closing down etc.

I don't know why this is, I feel how he looks playing football is to him more important than what actually works.

If he just did more of everything he'd be twice the player. Take more shots, be aggressive, go out of your way to annoy a centre back. Then the talent can come through. It doesn't matter how much talent you have if you simply don't apply enough quantity.

But it's not his style. He reminds me of Berbatov, they have this urbane sort of ideal they seem to aspire to.

Great if you're an interior designer but they're not. They're paid to run around on grass. So best get running.
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Probably why Berbatov is such a fan of him.

I'm also not buying the 50m Inter offer, I remember they had gone for him in the past but I don't see them offering close to half the Lukaku fee for Martial who has been injured and missing all of last season.
 
redmanx said:
To be honest, I thought Ole had moved Jones out, or was about to, so I checked the United website and hes in the squad for the coming season after recently signing a new contract. Its utterly unbelievable and Im very disappointed in Ole and only hope that his hands were tied re Jones, Martial, Lingaard, Pogba and others who are either simply not good enough or simply dont want to be at United.
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But you’re again assuming it’s Ole wanting to keep him here and there’s nothing to suggest that’s the case. Unfortunately, he’s overpaid so getting someone to take over that level of wages/cost isnt easy, especially when the player has barely played.
 
50mill for Martial and we should bite their hand off.

The only thing that would make this even remotely true, is they made a profit on Lukaku, they might fancy that again with Martial.
 
redmanx said:
To be honest, I thought Ole had moved Jones out, or was about to, so I checked the United website and hes in the squad for the coming season after recently signing a new contract. Its utterly unbelievable and Im very disappointed in Ole and only hope that his hands were tied re Jones, Martial, Lingaard, Pogba and others who are either simply not good enough or simply dont want to be at United.
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From memory Jones signed that contract back when Ole was still in his caretaker role. Not sure how much say he would have had in it at that stage.
 
MadDogg said:
From memory Jones signed that contract back when Ole was still in his caretaker role. Not sure how much say he would have had in it at that stage.
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Jones wouldnt be the first player to be sold while still having a couple of years on his contract, and yes he signed a new contract at the end of 2018/19 so he cant have many years left on it; 3 at the most but probably 2 as I dont think even United would have given him a 5 year contract aged 27 with his fitness record. Ole became permanent manager March 2019,
 
I like Martial, however, the problem is that United already has 3 of him in Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood. Great for cutting in from the wing. Can use his speed to get around that 1 v. 1 defender. However, none of them can make space for themselevs in a crowded box. Canvani is the only forward with the ability to create his own space. Send Martial out next season and grab Haaland.
 
northernfan said:
I like Martial, however, the problem is that United already has 3 of him in Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood. Great for cutting in from the wing. Can use his speed to get around that 1 v. 1 defender. However, none of them can make space for themselevs in a crowded box. Canvani is the only forward with the ability to create his own space. Send Martial out next season and grab Haaland.
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The worrying thing is the Martial seems to have lost much of his speed these days.

Looks a couple of stones heavier than he was at his peak. And it's not all muscle.

His main weapons at the moment are his strength and his close control. But I don't think either is particularly world class. Though if he can rediscover his finishing, that would be. Big if.
 
redmanx said:
Jones wouldnt be the first player to be sold while still having a couple of years on his contract, and yes he signed a new contract at the end of 2018/19 so he cant have many years left on it; 3 at the most but probably 2 as I dont think even United would have given him a 5 year contract aged 27 with his fitness record. Ole became permanent manager March 2019,
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Phil Jones signed his contract 8th February 2019, so seven weeks before Ole was given the role permanently. I'm sure Ole would have been asked for his opinion but there would have been a couple of people above him in the decision making process. It goes until the end of 2023 with an option for a further year, so yes two more years if we don't take the option.

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/phil-jones-signs-new-contract-with-manchester-united
 
northernfan said:
I like Martial, however, the problem is that United already has 3 of him in Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood. Great for cutting in from the wing. Can use his speed to get around that 1 v. 1 defender. However, none of them can make space for themselevs in a crowded box. Canvani is the only forward with the ability to create his own space. Send Martial out next season and grab Haaland.
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As a winger, I'd agree to some extent. The four of them have obvious similarities, although Sancho is more of a creator than the others.

Martial (if he can get back into form) is far better as a striker than any of them though. The hope is that Greenwood will continue developing that side of his game, but he hasn't shown anything close to an on-form Martial in that position yet. Hell I'd take 19/20 Martial over anything Cavani has shown for us so far.
 
MadDogg said:
As a winger, I'd agree to some extent. The four of them have obvious similarities, although Sancho is more of a creator than the others.

Martial (if he can get back into form) is far better as a striker than any of them though. The hope is that Greenwood will continue developing that side of his game, but he hasn't shown anything close to an on-form Martial in that position yet. Hell I'd take 19/20 Martial over anything Cavani has shown for us so far.
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I wouldn't.

Cavani had a goal contribution once every 95 minutes last season.
Martial had a goal contribution once every 102 minutes in 20/21.

Cavani also has 2-3 times the workrate of Martial and he's also a great character (vocal on the pitch/leader)
 
VanDeBank said:
I wouldn't.

Cavani had a goal contribution once every 95 minutes last season.
Martial had a goal contribution once every 102 minutes in 20/21.

Cavani also has 2-3 times the workrate of Martial and he's also a great character (vocal on the pitch/leader)
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Cavani started last season only an option off the bench as he was poor when he started, was in and out of the team through injury and the suspension, and was just starting to look good as a starter when he got injured again. It was really only in the final two months of the season where he really started doing consistently well. Before that his contribution to our season had been very average.

Martial also had the great two months at the end of the 19/20 season (being our best player towards the end as we pushed into the CL positions), but he was much better and more consistent over the rest of the season. Being only slightly behind in average goal contributions despite playing far more (especially in the league) isn't really a big deal. He's also better at holding up the ball and bringing others into the game. Obviously Cavani does have the better workrate and movement around the box though, but it's not clear cut between them.

The way I look at it, would Cavani's 20/21 have been considered out best performer in 19/20? Definitely not.
 
MadDogg said:
Cavani started last season only an option off the bench as he was poor when he started, was in and out of the team through injury and the suspension, and was just starting to look good as a starter when he got injured again. It was really only in the final two months of the season where he really started doing consistently well. Before that his contribution to our season had been very average.

Martial also had the great two months at the end of the 19/20 season (being our best player towards the end as we pushed into the CL positions), but he was much better and more consistent over the rest of the season. Being only slightly behind in average goal contributions despite playing far more (especially in the league) isn't really a big deal. He's also better at holding up the ball and bringing others into the game. Obviously Cavani does have the better workrate and movement around the box though, but it's not clear cut between them.

The way I look at it, would Cavani's 20/21 have been considered out best performer in 19/20? Definitely not.
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"Hell I'd take 19/20 Martial over anything Cavani has shown for us so far"

Cavani has shown some spectacular stuff (that goal on the halfway line comes to mind, which is something every forward tries a few times in their career, but only very few actually make it), is a great character on the pitch (his experience and his interaction with teammates have a positive impact) and he works like a horse.

19/20 Martial was amazing, but the way you phrased is a bit of a stretch and I felt like it downplayed Cavani's contribution a bit.
 
Well of course we would take that martial, the issue is that Martial has gone missing and gone backwards effort wise. No one is arguing martial 19:20 wasn’t a great player, martial 20/21 was arguably the worst forward in the squad bar James maybe.
 
Redcy said:
Well of course we would take that martial, the issue is that Martial has gone missing and gone backwards effort wise. No one is arguing martial 19:20 wasn’t a great player, martial 20/21 was arguably the worst forward in the squad bar James maybe.
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Martial could even go back to being the player from 2015-2019 who pretty average and inconsistent, but better than last year. We have really only had one fabulous year from him, three average, two shit
 
Redcy said:
Martial could even go back to being the player from 2015-2019 who pretty average and inconsistent, but better than last year. We have really only had one fabulous year from him, three average, two shit
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His first season clearly wasn’t average, let’s be fair. 17 goals and 10 assists, mostly from the wing if I’m not mistaken.
 
I think we are going to let him go this summer, assuming a big enough bid comes in. I think Ole has lost faith in him.
 
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