Jaysus, go to the Rashford thread if you have a gripe about him, this is the Martial thread. He's not good enough. Fact.
Martial agent looking for a new club for him
- Thread starter dinostar77
- Start date
Wait a minute.. Marcus is mentioned in 4 posts above me and you single mine out, because it's a negative comparison and more recent by 10 minutes?
The guy was low on confidence last year, for whatever reason. I cant imagine seeing many posters slating him when he was tearing up the season before and earning player's POTS.
We don't exactly have an abundance of realiable depth across the front 3, going into the start of the season to offload someone like Martial. Would you prefer to keep James instead of him to play on the left, should a freak accident happen to one of the predicted starting 3 get injured?
You brought up Rashford as the comparison, not me.
4 goals in 22 games was the main criteria. From our supposed first choice centre forward. Who is now 25 and has been at the club for 6 seasons. And rarely looks interested, either facially (which is not what I was referring to) or in his work rate,. And who a 34 year old Cavani outshone constantly last season.
You posted, I responded. If you don't like people responding to your posts then don't post. Simples.
He's only had 2 good seasons out of 6 full seasons, he is now 25, Rashford is 2 years younger and has better stats.
Low in confidence arguments only get you so far. I'll say it again...Only 2 good seasons in 6. Not good enough, we need to get someone else in who will hit 20 goals a season. I'd take another Chicharito over Martial any day of the week.
I was just highlighting the point that people aren't calling for Rashford to be sold even though he's been just as ineffective, if you want to put it that way, as Martial. How many great seasons has Rashford had?
I couldn't care less whether Martial smiles or not. Unless you converse with him on a regular basis, you have no authority to make any assessment as to whether he is interested or not. With the team being put together at the moment, Martial would absolutely flourish.
Bagged 21 goals 15 assists. probably why
I don''t know why you've only gone back three years? Probably because it suits your narrative. Their goals/assists are virtually identical with 93 goals and 56/58 assists with Martial having played a few more games obviously.
The Martial fanboy in me wants to give him one final chance. He's basically third choice now behind Cavani and Greenwood for CF though and i don't think he'll be happy having to play out left in Rashfords absence
I think he still has a lot to offer and the arrival of another French player could benefit him, we are going to need to sell some players though so it would make sense that he goes but I would prefer him to stay.
Most likely scenario I can see happening is that we offer Martial plus cash to Dortmund for Haaland next summer, plus also pay Martial off or whatever so his wage won't be an issue for Dortmund.
Haaland to replace Cavani and then probably Danny Ings on a free or something to replace Martial as the bench option. That's probably Plan A for next year if I was to guess.
Haaland to replace Cavani and then probably Danny Ings on a free or something to replace Martial as the bench option. That's probably Plan A for next year if I was to guess.
If I wanted the best stats to suit my ‘narrative’, I’d have just used the last year. I thought three years was a sufficient and fairer period of time. Rashford out scored and out assisted him in 17/18 as well if you want me to include that? I could also include 16/17, Rashford scored more that season too. We might want to remember Martial is two years older than Rashford as well.
There should be an absolute bare minimum expectation from a player to play for Manchester United. In fact, just to be a paid professional full stop. I’ve seen Martial with my own eyes far to many times stinking up OT with his complete contempt in effort and application. It isn’t his ‘languid style’ , he’s just plain bone idle. Throw in his ludicrous missed chances last season and he’s completely done for me. Get rid.
He's one of the best paid players in the league but his performances hardly reflects it. Needs to be sold just to get his wages out of the way really.
That'll keep the medical Department in wages for a while.
Rashford has way more matches played and has many goals from penalties, so no huge difference in stats.
Poor memory then. I remember in the EL final Rashford hardly ran at all. Extremely poor workrate. People criticised him for that after the match as well.
Infact Rashford's workrate has dropped significantly is the last season or so. Now you can attribute that to his injury(like everything is), but that doesnt change the fact that his workrate is really low at the moment.
Can only be a good thing. Take your chances!
Martial had a rotten season just gone, but I think the previous season gives him some grace entering this one. Our forward line is as strong as it's been for a long time so he will have to work to hold down a place, which is a good thing. We will see if he is up for it very soon.
He has somehow worked himself into the most saleable of our forwards, so really is in the last chance saloon at United.
He has somehow worked himself into the most saleable of our forwards, so really is in the last chance saloon at United.
He’s scored two more goals from penalties than Martial. Rashford has played 271 times for United. Martial has played 258 times. Martial has also played more games as a striker. And again, let’s factor in the fact that Martial is two years older than Rashford.
I take no issue in people's responses to my post, especially if they disagree with me as forums are all about debating.
Saying he's had 2 good seasons out of 6 is also a bit of an unfair assessment? 3 of those were through a Mourinho phase, who really didnt rate the chap and gave him fewer minutes than most of the other forwards ( still joint 2nd Goals and assist in JM's 1st season and joint 3rd in his 2nd).
Is it a coincidence when he was given more game time that he was top scorer and assist maker in those seasons? Will not argue that last season was rubbish, and the Mou/Ole transition year, but I believe in the chap if we can get consistent gametime for him.
Rashford's obviously better, but aren't those stats a bit skewed as Martial has a lot more substitute appearances? If I'm not mistaken, Rashford scores or assists every 125 minutes across his time at united, where as Martial scores or assists 135 minutes. It's a negligible difference, and Rashford has a more complete skillset but the narrative that Rashford has been on another planet to Martial across there time here is inaccurate imo. He was a lot better this season but overall, I don't think there's been much to separate the two.
Get a grip. Nobody said talent doesn't matter. James as almost exact opposite of Martial. Extremely high workrate but no end product. But make no mistake Martial is as lazy as they come. Sometimes he makes a fake impression that he is actually bothered and it seems as if he shown some effort. But it is just for the camera and public eye. He doesn't have the inner drive to push himself to be better and to compete. Therefore he is static and as usefull as a goalpost. Sell.
He possibly has, but there’s a reason for that. Rashford is the better player. I initially focussed on the last few years because I don’t think it’s that fair to compare a 19 year old to a 21 year old who is more developed and experienced. That difference is much more negligible now. It’s not just last season that Rashford outperformed Martial. It’s over a three or four year period at least.
Ultimately they’re competing for the same kind of positions in the team. In that case if we need to sell one, it’s obvious it will be Martial and it should be blatantly obvious why.
He didn't even outperform him the season before last.
I wouldn't want him leaving on a free, and I certainly wouldn't want him not being replaced, but I've given up on Martial. He's never going to be a top player, and he's very inconsistent too. I'm in no rush to get rid of him, but I'd love to see him replaced.
I agree that Martial would be the more obvious player to sell over Rashford but why would we need to sell either of them? We've finally got some depth in the frontline so I don't know why we'd look to tamper with that, unless we were looking to replace Martial, which wouldn't be a given.
I disagree that Rashford's outperformed Martial over the period before that, their stats for that period are again very similar, and they were both in and out of the team a lot under Mourinho so struggled for consistency. Rashford also was first choice backup for the CF position under Mourinho, and an out and out starter in that position under Ole in his first 6 months, so I don't think the excuse can be used that Martial plays upfront so you expect him to have better stats. It's all subjective but it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that they were at a similar level until this season, despite the recent narrative on here.
We need to get a new striker if he leaves. We have Cavani, Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho for 5 positions (not including youngsters like Diallo and Facuno). With Greenwood still a kid, Sancho needing to settle, Rashford injured and Cavani not able to play every match, we need to keep Martial.
He did not fulfill his potential, but I would rather want him on the bench than James or Lingard. It is going to be a long and tough season so unless we sign a striker, Martial will stay. And if he can get back to anything close to 2019-2020 season, good for us.
Right up to the point where he literally broke his back he was doing exactly that. Naturally he struggled a little after that. Despite that, Martial outscored him by 1.
That aside, I think you’ve misunderstood what over a four year period means.
It greatly depends on whether we need the money and whether Pogba stays. As things stand, Martial is second choice striker and third choice left winger. Long term, I don’t see him staying as a back up and I don’t think he’s what we need up front. If the choice is keep Martial and not have the money to spend on midfield, I’d look to sell him. If not, we might as well keep him.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on your last paragraph.
Sell him - think he could do well at Spurs or Wolves etc. Not good enough for us sadly, maybe pressure or maybe he just needs a change to freshen up. Either way another season in Limbo doesnt do either party any favours!
Rashford has way more minutes than Martial. Unfortunately he is undroppable even when he is in a poor form, so like I said the stats are very much equal if we look at goal per minute.
He only outperformed him for 1 year, stats don't support your point about the 3 years prior to last season.
They also have scored the same number of league goals with Rashford having played more games.
I disagree. Work rate is how hard you work. You be the slowest person on the pitch, but if you’re out there running with a broken leg, you have a much higher work rate than other players.
Saying Rashford had a low work rate is a convenient cover for trying to say ‘I don’t think he’s doing as much and I’m hinting at either general apathy or laziness.’
He was injured and that was it. Work rate is irrelevant for Rashford
Long term I do think he'll become obsolete, I just don't see the sense in selling him this season, even if we use the funds to buy a midfielder. With Rashford looking likely to miss the start of the season, and Cavani only capable of starting one match a week, I think he'll be needed on the left wing and up top. Despite his poor form last season, he's still a better option than Dan James on the left, and arguably he knows how to play the CF position better than Greenwood.
3 positions?
Just my opinion, but while young, Greenwood is learning but past the debut/awe stage and I don't think Sancho will have any issue settling.
I'd also rather keep Lingard over Martial... didn't think I'd say that about Lingard over hardly anyone
I think we start Sancho Cavani Greenwood and Rashford comes back in October. Could also play 2 of those 3 and Bruno just behind.
I want squad depth and I wouldn't bin off Martial for peanuts but if someone offered £30m+, I'd take it.
He outperformed him in 17/18 and 18/19 as well. That’s 3 out of the last 4 years. He’s outscored him in 4 of the last 5 seasons. Over that entire period he’s got more goals and assists and played less games as a striker. Only one season has Martial been the better performer and only just. That was a season where Rashford broke his back.
And again, Rashford is two years younger.
It depends on our plans. I think a starting midfielder is a better asset to us in our current position than a third choice left winger and second choice striker. If Greenwood continues to progress, Martial could quickly find himself third choice striker as well. If we don’t intend to re-invest the money then he might as well stay.
After watching Martial play last season, I don't know how anyone can argue that he tried to compensate for his poor goal return by putting in an extra yard of effort, the way he moves around the pitch when he doesn't have the ball would be acceptable if he was banging in 30+ goals a season, which he's clearly incapable of.
A lot of his bad form was also down to effort too, you rarely see him gamble at the far post, or break a neck to get in front of the defender when the ball is played from the wide areas. These are things that a #9 has to do regardless of what kind of form he is in.
Think he gets another season purely because we had to address the right wing, CB, RB and Pogba situation this summer, not because he's done anything to deserve it.
Wouldn't mind selling him in Jan if we can find a buyer and someone like Ings is available.
A lot of his bad form was also down to effort too, you rarely see him gamble at the far post, or break a neck to get in front of the defender when the ball is played from the wide areas. These are things that a #9 has to do regardless of what kind of form he is in.
Think he gets another season purely because we had to address the right wing, CB, RB and Pogba situation this summer, not because he's done anything to deserve it.
Wouldn't mind selling him in Jan if we can find a buyer and someone like Ings is available.
To be fair, if we're using the argument that you’d expect Martial to score more as he’s played more as a striker, I’m pretty sure Rashford played in that position more in 18/19, 17/18 and 16/17, yet he only scored 5 more goals than Martial in that time, despite playing in 25 more matches. I haven't got time to go through the assists but, I’m pretty sure, Martial had a better ratio of goals and assists per game in that period than Rashford.