[Nighteyes]

And they're partly right

No that's mostly nonsense. But hey, if blaming Fellaini then by all means go ahead.

Come on...is this the best you can come up with? A measly attempt at sarcastic condescension? Yeah, José has never been wrong in his entire managerial career, and he hasn't been wrong in his United career - including the time when started Pogba in a 2 with Fellaini or when he used Rooney as a 10 behind a striker who likes to drop deep in Ibrahimović, and he wasn't wrong when the composition of our midfield was completely off-base in that first half vs City. He has never committed any errors, and 'astute readers' like us should never even question his judgement or selection of personnel. We should just bask in awe like mindless goobers, instead of trying to critically analyze what might improve United going forwards.

Like I said, it looks like Jose is a slow learner so you'll have to excuse him while he takes his time in seeing what may be obvious to the likes of you. Not all of us are blessed with such clinical and wholesome understanding of the game.

 

[criticalanalysis]

He tried it at the start of the season, he played well in the first 2-3 games. But after that not so much, hasn't played there since so Jose must have decided he doesn't like him there and i tend to agree.

Yeah he done ok/'good'..in a midfield two with Rooney/Mata (not midfielders in any sense of the word) in front of him and Pogba.

Think we should try him there with Herrera and Pogba in front.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Just a weird performance. He wasn't good, but he wasn't bad either.

His limitations hurt us, but I still think he's a useful squad option to have especially when we're thin in CM.

I'm not his fan, but he was good to start the season even though it didn't get the best out of Pogba. He can play a role.

 

[Snow]

It was just an observation that by your standard of a #10 he failed miserably but my point was that he wasn't playing as a 10 role wise.

I said in the beginning that I don't like him as a player, regardless of where he plays. The main argument is that he wasn't bad today in the role he played compared to others, which Jose got it wrong in the first place.

Positionally he was. He rarely drifts towards the left side of the pitch but he was definitely high up the pitch without contributing much as evident by his early substitution. Mourinho misjudged the game by playing him and took him off.

 

[Invictus]

No that's mostly nonsense. But hey, if blaming Fellaini then by all means go ahead.

Again, it's not 'blaming'. It's an acknowledgement of the fact that he does affect the balance and attacking transitions of the team, as well as the ease which which the likes of Pogba can advance up the pitch without sacrificing defensive solidity in the base of midfield. Other players having bad games, and him affecting said balance or United's ability to transition from defense to attack in a smoother fashion aren't mutually exclusive concepts - I don't even know what's so hard to fathom in that. It's not strictly about absolutes, despite your adamant stance to convey things in that light.

Like I said, it looks like Jose is a slow learner so you'll have to excuse him while he takes his time in seeing what may be obvious to the likes of you. Not all of us are blessed with such clinical and wholesome understanding of the game.

No one apart from you claimed that José is a slow learner or doesn't see obvious things, probably an attempt to minimize opinions of others by poor efforts at being witty. But he does commit unforced errors, and does make personnel mistakes - like using Mikel when he was ill-suited to games at Chelsea, or starting a past it Essien at Madrid with Adebayour, or starting Pepe vs. Dortmund when they specifically targeted him in their pressing setup and exploited that flaw at the Westfalenstadion, or repeatedly starting Ivanović when he blatantly wasn't performing well and regressing as a player. That's not exclusive to him, either, all managers (even the great ones) make mistakes or overlook things - which are sometimes even evident to casual observers, and other times - the casual observers are wayyy of base. That's the nature of things. But nah, why discuss said things when self appointed guardians of all that is wise and good - such as yourself will put tangential slants on them, instead of taking a step back and trying to atleast process what was said in a rational fashion.

 

[stevoc]

Yeah he done ok/'good'..in a midfield two with Rooney/Mata (not midfielders in any sense of the word) in front of him and Pogba.

Think we should try him there with Herrera and Pogba in front.

To be honest i really hope we don't, his best position is further forward.

 

[Anustart89]

He really shouldn't be starting games for us. Plan B when we want to hoof it? Sure, I'll accept that he's got his uses, but surely we'd be better off having Blind (or BFS) in midfield in a game we're supposed to control if Carrick's unavailable.

 

[Art]

He's better further up the pitch and coming off the bench.

 

[Cassidy]

Yeah he done ok/'good'..in a midfield two with Rooney/Mata (not midfielders in any sense of the word) in front of him and Pogba.

Think we should try him there with Herrera and Pogba in front.

No way, his positional play is just poor, when he played as the deepest midfielder earlier in the season he cost us a bit

 

[Philadelphian]

Not surprised he plays regularly for the team sitting 6th in the table. It's right where he belongs.

 

[criticalanalysis]

To be honest i really hope we don't, his best position is further forward.

No way, his positional play is just poor, when he played as the deepest midfielder earlier in the season he cost us a bit

Perhaps I'm having poor memory but during those games I don't remember thinking he was actually poor/cost us in terms of mistakes. I was more thinking, 'Fellani is a limited player doing limited things in a 2 man midfield'. Thus in a 3 man midfield, he's fine imo. The best game I can remember is probably the Anfield game.

He started at the base with Herrera with Pogba almost shadowing Ibra, and he more than did fine.

 

[stevoc]

Perhaps I'm having poor memory but during those games I don't remember thinking he was actually poor/cost us in terms of mistakes. I was more thinking, 'Fellani is a limited player doing limited things in a 2 man midfield'. Thus in a 3 man midfield, he's fine imo. The best game I can remember is probably the Anfield game.

He started at the base with Herrera with Pogba almost shadowing Ibra, and he more than did fine.

He was but in that game Herrera was also playing deep right beside him, and it was a pretty defensive minded performance from the whole team. Don't get me wrong he has had good games in the role but for me he's just not suited to it.

He's inconsistent when playing deeper for us, he's not the greatest player further forward but at least there you know what you are going to get from him.

 

[NoPace]

Crazy to think City played Silva and De Bruyne as CMs, and we're throwing out Fellaini in that spot. Someone who can turn and link up would have made a real difference today.

 

[criticalanalysis]

He was but in that game Herrera was also playing deep right beside him, and it was a pretty defensive minded performance from the whole team. Don't get me wrong he has had good games in the role but for me he's just not suited to it.

He's inconsistent when playing deeper for us, he's not the greatest player further forward but at least there you know what you are going to get from him.

Yeah I'd agree, that was a one-off type of game but it shows he can be of use in a high tempo setting. It'd fit my narrative that he'll do fine when we dominate possession and play a comfortable/compact 3 man midfield.

I mean of course, it's still a 2nd choice solution because ideally we want someone better playing but in my mind, the 'pros' outweighs the 'cons'. He's shown he can be disciplined and recycle possession and he's not really been found wanting defensively, showing for the ball or digging his heels when the going gets tough (those games against City/Liverpool during LVG spring to mind). Conversely, I want less defensive responsibilities for someone like Herrera because I feel he'd see more of the ball and in better positions than needing to keep an eye covering with/for Carrick. I'm not talking about 10-20 yards but even 5 yards further upfield makes a difference.

Imo all of Fellaini's limitations are exposed when further forward because he doesn't have the variation or subtlety to excel anything other than being a big lump, so I'm surprised people think this. I'd rather have a big lump at the base of midfield in front of the defence than in the final third of the pitch where he sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[Jaybomb]

Crazy to think City played Silva and De Bruyne as CMs, and we're throwing out Fellaini in that spot. Someone who can turn and link up would have made a real difference today.

And where did that get them? City are shite.

Plus Fellaini is an actual CM. Silva and De Bruyne are CAMs/Wingers.

Overall, I think it was the wrong choice to play him today... but who knows? Maybe if we started Carrick instead, Stoke would have won. It's all hypothethical. Pogba plays better with Carrick behind him, in my opinion.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Thought he was probably the most effective out of our midfield today. There is plenty to rip him about and people can do if they wish. Genuinely bizarre when people argue "he's still shite because he should be brilliant'er! Therefore SHITE!" to him having a decent game. Just a lazy agenda driven argument born out of opposition for the sake of having a personal fellaini tourettes nametag on.

It is such a waste of energy. He's in good form and hope it continues.

 

[Sid234]

Fellaini was our most consistent CM in the game.. Did his job well, made his presence felt as a DM, got forward whenever he could as well - 7/10 performance but since he didn't score a ton of goals and win us the game - shite and ineffective performance from him.

 

[Man of Leisure]

Fellaini was our most consistent CM in the game.. Did his job well, made his presence felt as a DM, got forward whenever he could as well - 7/10 performance but since he didn't score a ton of goals and win us the game - shite and ineffective performance from him.

Did you even watch the game? He was playing behind Zlatan as our #10.

 

[Sid234]

Did you even watch the game? He was playing behind Zlatan as our #10.

He started the game playing forwars but dropped deeper a the game went on and let Pogba push forward. He was dropping deep whenever we lost possession. My point was that he did his job defensively and nothing else. Using the term DM might have been a bad choice.

Also, i believe Mikhi was playing at our #10 not Fellaini. He started as the attacking CM of the midfield 3

 

[Bobcat]

Just a weird performance. He wasn't good, but he wasn't bad either.

His limitations hurt us, but I still think he's a useful squad option to have especially when we're thin in CM.

I'm not his fan, but he was good to start the season even though it didn't get the best out of Pogba. He can play a role.

My thoughts as well. He can be useful at times, but you could see yesterday our CM does not tick so well when we replace Carrick with him.

 

[ti vu]

Nothing wrong with him. He's been one of our better players out there today.

Agree he is not the problem individually. However, today Mourinho got the tactic wrong. We lack players running behind Stoke defense. Mikhi and Mata drifted inside too much leading to the central area being crowded while we're so slim out wide. In game where some other players having an off day, Fellaini fulfill his job is not enough. We need that extra attacker in Fellaini place...

 

[stevoc]

Yeah I'd agree, that was a one-off type of game but it shows he can be of use in a high tempo setting. It'd fit my narrative that he'll do fine when we dominate possession and play a comfortable/compact 3 man midfield.

I mean of course, it's still a 2nd choice solution because ideally we want someone better playing but in my mind, the 'pros' outweighs the 'cons'. He's shown he can be disciplined and recycle possession and he's not really been found wanting defensively, showing for the ball or digging his heels when the going gets tough (those games against City/Liverpool during LVG spring to mind). Conversely, I want less defensive responsibilities for someone like Herrera because I feel he'd see more of the ball and in better positions than needing to keep an eye covering with/for Carrick. I'm not talking about 10-20 yards but even 5 yards further upfield makes a difference.

Imo all of Fellaini's limitations are exposed when further forward because he doesn't have the variation or subtlety to excel anything other than being a big lump, so I'm surprised people think this. I'd rather have a big lump at the base of midfield in front of the defence than in the final third of the pitch where he sticks out like a sore thumb.

There is truth to that mate, but unfortunately other limitations are exposed when he plays deeper in a more defensive role. Sadly he is just a limited player in general, great attitude, hard worker and can be effective. But in a side with high aspirations he doesn't really have anything about him to make any position his own. For a side like United he is of most use as a battering ram late in games if we are losing/drawing.

 

[stevoc]

He started the game playing forwars but dropped deeper a the game went on and let Pogba push forward. He was dropping deep whenever we lost possession. My point was that he did his job defensively and nothing else. Using the term DM might have been a bad choice.

Also, i believe Mikhi was playing at our #10 not Fellaini. He started as the attacking CM of the midfield 3

Mkhityaryan was playing left but he took it upon himself to drift centrally more and more as the game went on to try to create something.

 

[Roboc7]

not true at all. today if ibra mata and mkhi had finished the chances we wouldnt even be having this conversation.

It's true every time fellaini steps on the pitch for us, when fellaini has the ball at his feet he has less options, the players around him have less options because of his limited movement, passing and ability and that is why we are worse as a team whether he plays well or not.

That isn't even a criticism of fellaini it's just a consequence of his limitations, to make up for it you need to play lots of long balls because his chest control is his best attribute, that's the reason he was a better player at Everton.

He shouldn't be starting league games unless there are two or three injuries, he can do a job as a backup and be an impact player off the bench but if he is starting 10-15 league games a season we aren't going to be winning the league because he is too limited and doesn't compliment our other players.

 

[Nighteyes]

Except we created more clear cut chances with Fellaini on the pitch.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Just a terrible footballer out of sync with most of his team mates. Like to see him do well personally because of all the stick he gets but he contributes massively to disjointed performances

 

[Godfather]

Don't get the hate after yesterday. He was decent enough imo.

 

[prath92]

It's true every time fellaini steps on the pitch for us, when fellaini has the ball at his feet he has less options, the players around him have less options because of his limited movement, passing and ability and that is why we are worse as a team whether he plays well or not.

That isn't even a criticism of fellaini it's just a consequence of his limitations, to make up for it you need to play lots of long balls because his chest control is his best attribute, that's the reason he was a better player at Everton.

He shouldn't be starting league games unless there are two or three injuries, he can do a job as a backup and be an impact player off the bench but if he is starting 10-15 league games a season we aren't going to be winning the league because he is too limited and doesn't compliment our other players.

the way you initially described, it would mean it's a liability. In fact, he actually had a very good shot saved. And as Akash said, we created tonnes of chances with him on the pitch (I would say the best chance of the game was the mata chance).

Your whole 'Fellaini gives us negative impact' falls there. Him starting makes no difference to our attacks. Starting Carrick yesterday wouldn't have made our attackers suddenly finish better and wasn't going to make mata's own goal not happen.

In short the result yesterday had little to do with Fellaini starting rather than the fact that some of our other players had stinkers. You could argue that Fellaini made them play badly but that would be insane. I have also never seen Fellaini hold on to the ball more than a couple of seconds at best. His passing is limited so he gives it to players whose passing is good. We also never really played long ball yesterday. You seem to make up a lot of stuff.

 

[devilish]

Fellaini is a consequence of a poorly functional team. Ultimately he will leave but hes not the only reason we are in this sorry situation

 

[PlayerOne]

He didn't make any mistakes yesterday, but that's not hard to do when he hardly gets involved. He just kinda does nothing, just there at times.

 

[Sensei]

His passing is limited so he gives it to players whose passing is good.

You don't think that in itself is a drawback? Don't get me wrong though, blaming Fellaini for the draw yesterday isn't fair on the lad but having someone who just plays the simple pass is like having one less outlet for creativity.

If you have watched us closely this season whenever Carrick plays, the impact is not that the strikers become better but he is able to control his area of the pitch in possession and leave Pogba and Herrera closer to the strikers where they are more dangerous.

With Fellaini, one of Pogba and Herrera constantly drops to pick the ball due to his limited passing and that affects our build up play. In my opinion, Fellaini is more useful in the opponents box when we need to use plan B and go long. He should be as far from the midfield as possible.

 

[Needham]

I like the fact that he's brave, never shirks any kind of one on one.

 

[Litch]

He's not our problem and I think he plays 100% to his ability as limited as that might be, the problem is there are others that aren't.....

 

[KiD MoYeS]

He done okay yesterday, are people criticising his performance?

Was glad he was positioned further forward rather than as the holding midfield player, that's where he does us damage.

 

[prath92]

You don't think that in itself is a drawback? Don't get me wrong though, blaming Fellaini for the draw yesterday isn't fair on the lad but having someone who just plays the simple pass is like having one less outlet for creativity.

If you have watched us closely this season whenever Carrick plays, the impact is not that the strikers become better but he is able to control his area of the pitch in possession and leave Pogba and Herrera closer to the strikers where they are more dangerous.

With Fellaini, one of Pogba and Herrera constantly drops to pick the ball due to his limited passing and that affects our build up play. In my opinion, Fellaini is more useful in the opponents box when we need to use plan B and go long. He should be as far from the midfield as possible.

he is clearly a squad player too. Meaning he will start some smaller games. I think he is good enough for that. i think its unfair to categorize him as having negative impact.

 

[Sensei]

he is clearly a squad player too. Meaning he will start some smaller games. I think he is good enough for that. i think its unfair to categorize him as having negative impact.

I pretty much agree with you. A game here and there against the "likely to win" sides definitely won't hurt.

 

[Roboc7]

the way you initially described, it would mean it's a liability. In fact, he actually had a very good shot saved. And as Akash said, we created tonnes of chances with him on the pitch (I would say the best chance of the game was the mata chance).

Your whole 'Fellaini gives us negative impact' falls there. Him starting makes no difference to our attacks. Starting Carrick yesterday wouldn't have made our attackers suddenly finish better and wasn't going to make mata's own goal not happen.

In short the result yesterday had little to do with Fellaini starting rather than the fact that some of our other players had stinkers. You could argue that Fellaini made them play badly but that would be insane. I have also never seen Fellaini hold on to the ball more than a couple of seconds at best. His passing is limited so he gives it to players whose passing is good. We also never really played long ball yesterday. You seem to make up a lot of stuff.

He averages less than one assist per season that makes a difference to our attacks whether you want to believe it or not, people just get overly defensive with fellaini when they hear the truth, he is a limited player by playing him instead of carrick you limit the players around him. It's pretty simple, it doesn't mean we will never have a shot at goal or create a chance but it does mean we will be less effective unless we play direct and fellaini scores a lot of goals which he has never done here because we don't play the style of football that suits him.

there is no guarantee carrick wouldnt have made a difference but its more likely than not that he would have done because he is better than fellaini and he compliments the other players, that is the wider point you are missing and are just focusing on the fact we still had chances in one game. There I see a reason fellaini has only started a couple of league games in last few months, why he I still fourth choice out of four and why he is first player subbed off even when Herrera and pogba aren't playing well.

 

[prath92]

He averages less than one assist per season that makes a difference to our attacks whether you want to believe it or not, people just get overly defensive with fellaini when they hear the truth, he is a limited player by playing him instead of carrick you limit the players around him. It's pretty simple, it doesn't mean we will never have a shot at goal or create a chance but it does mean we will be less effective unless we play direct and fellaini scores a lot of goals which he has never done here because we don't play the style of football that suits him.

there is no guarantee carrick wouldnt have made a difference but its more likely than not that he would have done because he is better than fellaini and he compliments the other players, that is the wider point you are missing and are just focusing on the fact we still had chances in one game. There I see a reason fellaini has only started a couple of league games in last few months, why he I still fourth choice out of four and why he is first player subbed off even when Herrera and pogba aren't playing well.

yeah as I said above, he is a squad player. My only issue was with your he gives us a negative impact when he starts which isnt true. Negative impact would mean that we play badly because of a player. Like mata yesterday or pogba on sunday where whatever they did seemed to be going wrong. We were having the same problem in many games that fellaini didnt even play (the home game against stoke, where like yesterday we couldnt score to save our lives). That is what you dont seem to get. our problems werent about fellaini. It was our forwards not able to convert the many chances which would be the same even if carrick or even if the best DM in the world played

 

[Roboc7]

yeah as I said above, he is a squad player. My only issue was with your he gives us a negative impact when he starts which isnt true. Negative impact would mean that we play badly because of a player. Like mata yesterday or pogba on sunday where whatever they did seemed to be going wrong. We were having the same problem in many games that fellaini didnt even play (the home game against stoke, where like yesterday we couldnt score to save our lives). That is what you dont seem to get. our problems werent about fellaini. It was our forwards not able to convert the many chances which would be the same even if carrick or even if the best DM in the world played

I am not blaming him for everything and others missing chances but as you said yourself he needs to give the ball to other players for someone in the position he was in yesterday that is a negative. He rarely scores, doesn't assist goals and needs others to pass the ball for him because like I said he is too limited to Do it himself. picking the easy pass everytime is not a benefit for someone playing the position he is playing.

He didn't need to play yesterday so he shouldn't have done because he does have a negative impact on the team not just because of his ability but also because we change things round and get less from the other players, it's not his fault it is the manager's. Use him in cups, if there are injuries or as a sub but we should have at least on more cm ahead of him and he shouldn't be starting more than half a dozen league games.

 

[Cassidy]

He was but in that game Herrera was also playing deep right beside him, and it was a pretty defensive minded performance from the whole team. Don't get me wrong he has had good games in the role but for me he's just not suited to it.

He's inconsistent when playing deeper for us, he's not the greatest player further forward but at least there you know what you are going to get from him.

Those games we played a two. Watford City etc he was defensively poor and out of positions quite a bit.