[Varun]

He's still playing the same role. Starting in midfield and breaking forward from there. The only difference is he hasn't hit the form of last season. Not sure how that excuses Schneideelin being incompetent with and without the ball.

It isn't the same role at all. Last season, the focus was on working the left channel and him moving into the box to score or assist with headers. Blind-Young-Fellaini is how it went most games. This season, he's playing as a proper CM initiating moves, staying deep to pass the ball and sometimes even being the deepest CM protecting the back 4. He does go on and try to get at the end of things at times but it's rare. With Young out of the team, we don't even have a dedicated man who tries to get crosses in for him to attack.

Re Schneiderlin, as I said in my first post, his performance simply be excused because of his partner but when you have to cover for someone like Fellaini, it doesn't help at all. If schneiderlin is playing as the holding mid, having someone who's good with the ball whom he can pass it to would help. If he's playing b2b, having someone who's secure defensively would help too. Hell, just having someone mobile to partner him who'd just do his own share of the work would be a step forward.

 

[Nighteyes]

It isn't the same role at all. Last season, the focus was on working the left channel and him moving into the box to score or assist with headers. Blind-Young-Fellaini is how it went most games. This season, he's playing as a proper CM initiating moves, staying deep to pass the ball and sometimes even being the deepest CM protecting the back 4. He does go on and try to get at the end of things at times but it's rare. With Young out of the team, we don't even have a dedicated man who tries to get crosses in for him to attack.

Not really true. Even against Derby he was near the top and was involved in the Martial chance. And bulk of the criticism labelled at him is that he spends far too much time upfield (Which is a bit ridiculous in itself given he's obviously doing it under instructions). So which is it? Is he too deep or too far forward?

Re Schneiderlin, as I said in my first post, his performance simply be excused because of his partner but when you have to cover for someone like Fellaini, it doesn't help at all. If schneiderlin is playing as the holding mid, having someone who's good with the ball whom he can pass it to would help. If he's playing b2b, having someone who's secure defensively would help too. Hell, just having someone mobile to partner him who'd just do his own share of the work would be a step forward.

That's lazy criticism and doens't hold up. I could just as easily say it would help Fellaini having a competent defensive minded midfielder who can pas the ball behind him.

 

[2 man midfield]

Schneiderlin's poor start has been hugely overstated imo. I actually think he's done well for us so far.

 

[Varun]

Not really true. Even against Derby he was near the top and was involved in the Martial chance. And bulk of the criticism labelled at him is that he spends far too much time upfield (Which is a bit ridiculous in itself given he's obviously doing it under instructions). So which is it? Is he too deep or too far forward?



That's lazy criticism and doens't hold up. I could just as easily say it would help Fellaini having a competent defensive minded midfielder who can pas the ball behind him.

Didn't watch the Derby game so if it was different for that game, I'm not aware. Before that though, it's definitely a case of him being too deep as an actual CM which he isn't.

It isn't lazy criticism. Schneiderlin has to improve his passing but defensively, he's good. I know he switched off vs Derby but in general. Fellaini does nothing to a required standard and doesn't even have the tools to do so.

 

[Joga Bonito]

He was playing in a role that suits him best last season. Why would he pull others down? He was actually a big reason why we finished in the top 4. LVG seems to have erased the lessons learnt from last season from his memory though and is using him in a role which he's shit at to put it bluntly. It isn't even fellaini's fault, he can't say "I won't play because I'm not good enough there" when LVG picks him to play CM.

It isn't the same role at all. Last season, the focus was on working the left channel and him moving into the box to score or assist with headers. Blind-Young-Fellaini is how it went most games. This season, he's playing as a proper CM initiating moves, staying deep to pass the ball and sometimes even being the deepest CM protecting the back 4.

I agree in that LVG utilized him best last season in a 4-3-3 but I wouldn't say Fellaini's individual role has changed that greatly. When he played as the LCM/LAM last season, he was counted on to do his fair share of defensive responsibilities but also get forward into the box whenever he could. Likewise, he is still tasked with the same role this season, with ample tactical freedom to get forward at will, whilst contributing defensively without really holding a position in a disciplined manner. Difference being that we had Herrera as a RCM and a DM (Carrick) behind him last season, which meant the midfield could cope with Fellaini's runs forward and not lose control. This season we only have a DM and a #10, which means the midfield is completely unbalanced when Fellaini makes his forays forward and imo, he still has been given the same freedom (perhaps to a slightly less degree) to venture forward.

Most of our midfielders haven't been playing well and that includes Fellaini too, who quite simply hasn't made the impact he made last season, despite being given ample freedom to do so. I get that the system he currently plays in means the midfield loses its structural integrity, but he should have no excuses as to his lack of threat in the opposition box as he does have the freedom to get forward. So in essence, we are compromising on the control in midfield (probably intentional given Fellaini's rather obvious attacking role) but Fellaini simply hasn't been coming up with the goods which makes it a really bad trade-off. Also Schneiderlin isn't helped by this lack of balance in midfield due to Fellaini's role, but regardless his individual performances have been largely underwhelming nonetheless. It's just quite disappointing that LVG discarded that 4-3-3 and is obstinately sticking with the 4-2-3-1, this season. Did we even try the 4-3-3 this season? Maybe we did at times, but can't quite remember.

 

[noodlehair]

It will be hilarious when some of our players are still shit once the big bad buffoon is sold and will no longer be able inhibit their outrageous ability by his mere presence.

Who will the next scapegoat be I wonder. Rooney is always a good bet but Lingard seems to be the current flavour of the month on the caf.

Some of our players are worryingly shit. He isn't the only issue. I'd have Darmian, Lingard and Blind in the same category as well...as in players who make it impossible for us to be a strong unit, because the team has to cope with them being there rather than benefit from them in any way.

The difference is though that these players either just aren't very good or are being played in a position they shouldn't ever be playing in (Blind)...with Fellaini it's both...he's a rubbish footballer and he has no idea how to be a midfielder.

You can generally just aboout get away with one or two passengers, but having a passenger in a position they can't play in means the rest of the team is constantlly having to try and compensate...or is unable to function how it's supposed to.

I also suspect that Fellaini is in the team to compensate for the fact that Blind is too short to be a centreback and so Fellaini has to do Blind's job at defensive set pieces, which is just another layer of dumbness to add to the whole thing.

Every game we are a team trying to cope with our own team selections and shortcomings and as long as that's the case there just isn't going to be any significant improvement...and as long as Fellaini is playing in midfield it's allways going to be the case.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

It isn't the same role at all. Last season, the focus was on working the left channel and him moving into the box to score or assist with headers. Blind-Young-Fellaini is how it went most games. This season, he's playing as a proper CM initiating moves, staying deep to pass the ball and sometimes even being the deepest CM protecting the back 4. He does go on and try to get at the end of things at times but it's rare. With Young out of the team, we don't even have a dedicated man who tries to get crosses in for him to attack.

Re Schneiderlin, as I said in my first post, his performance simply be excused because of his partner but when you have to cover for someone like Fellaini, it doesn't help at all. If schneiderlin is playing as the holding mid, having someone who's good with the ball whom he can pass it to would help. If he's playing b2b, having someone who's secure defensively would help too. Hell, just having someone mobile to partner him who'd just do his own share of the work would be a step forward.

I agree with the first paragraph. Having him and Herrera playing in a midfield three allowed Carrick to easily release the ball from midfield to attack. It's an outlet we don't have these days due to playing two in midfield. At times, Fellaini seems to be torn as to whether he should push up forward or assist Schneiderlin in a deep role. I really would like to slap van Gaal and knock some sense into him with regards to our midfield. As for Fellaini, he hasn't reached the heights of last season where he played a vital role in achieving our lowly aims, and that's mainly the fault of his manager.

 

[Varun]

I agree in that LVG utilized him best last season in a 4-3-3 but I wouldn't say Fellaini's individual role has changed that greatly. When he played as the LCM/LAM last season, he was counted on to do his fair share of defensive responsibilities but also get forward into the box whenever he could. Likewise, he is still tasked with the same role this season, with ample tactical freedom to get forward at will, whilst contributing defensively without really holding a position in a disciplined manner. Difference being that we had Herrera as a RCM and a DM (Carrick) behind him last season, which meant the midfield could cope with Fellaini's runs forward and not lose control. This season we only have a DM and a #10, which means the midfield is completely unbalanced when Fellaini makes his forays forward and imo, he still has been given the same freedom (perhaps to a slightly less degree) to venture forward.

Most of our midfielders haven't been playing well and that includes Fellaini too, who quite simply hasn't made the impact he made last season, despite being given ample freedom to do so. I get that the system he currently plays in means the midfield loses its structural integrity, but he should have no excuses as to his lack of threat in the opposition box as he does have the freedom to get forward. So in essence, we are compromising on the control in midfield (probably intentional given Fellaini's rather obvious attacking role) but Fellaini simply hasn't been coming up with the goods which makes it a really bad trade-off. Also Schneiderlin isn't helped by this lack of balance in midfield due to Fellaini's role, but regardless his individual performances have been largely underwhelming nonetheless. It's just quite disappointing that LVG discarded that 4-3-3 and is obstinately sticking with the 4-2-3-1, this season. Did we even try the 4-3-3 this season? Maybe we did at times, but can't quite remember.

You have correctly identified the issue but still insist on him having a similar role? Why? How's it even possible? As you rightly said, with Herrera and Carrick both being there last season, he was in and around the box during our attacking plays. It just doesn't happen now because it's only schneiderlin/carrick/BFS behind him in defence and thus unless we are chasing a goal, he stays deep.

 

[Nighteyes]

Didn't watch the Derby game so if it was different for that game, I'm not aware. Before that though, it's definitely a case of him being too deep as an actual CM which he isn't.

It isn't lazy criticism. Schneiderlin has to improve his passing but defensively, he's good. I know he switched off vs Derby but in general. Fellaini does nothing to a required standard and doesn't even have the tools to do so.

Again, not true. Watch the games he's played this season. He's playing the same role he did last season. If anything he's played more as #10 than a CM which is why after every game you have people coming on here and complaining about how he spends all his time too far forward.The differences have been that a)He's not been as good and b)Carrick hasn't played much and not as good last season, Herrera has been awol and two new signings have been crap.

He's not been good defensively at all. Repeatedly let's people go off and has the highest fouls/game in the league because he has to resort to kicking people to stop them after letting them run by.

 

[Joga Bonito]

It just doesn't happen now because it's only schneiderlin/carrick/BFS behind him in defence and thus unless we are chasing a goal, he stays deep.

He plays a slightly more reserved role but he still frequently bombs forward, leaving Schneiderlin almost playing as a lone central midfielder. I don't think he stays deep or plays a disciplined role at all. Would appreciate it if perhaps someone could provide Fellaini's average position heatmaps and shed some light on this matter.

You have correctly identified the issue but still insist on him having a similar role? Why?

Maybe that came off wrong. I'm in no way, in favour of compromising control in midfield so that Fellaini could make an impact further up field, whilst leaving the midfield undermanned to a certain extent. Imo, LVG probably thinks our central midfield is slightly stale attacking wise and too safe, and thus wants to inject some threat by introducing Fellaini in that role. I think he's aware that we more or less lose control of midfield when he plays Fellaini in a midfield duo, or at least I hope so. Perhaps he thinks that is offset by Fellaini's contributions upfield or something, although that clearly isn't he case based on Fellaini's form this season. In an ideal world we would have someone who has the tactical nous to both balance their attacking forays forward and yet maintain defensive solidity and balance at the back (Davids for eg) but Fellaini doesn't have that and needs a more customised role. He shouldn't be played as a CM in a midfield duo.

It's just weird though, we could just play Schneiderlin as the DM and let Herrera and Fellaini take up their RCM and LCM roles in the past few games, when Schweinsteiger and Carrick were unavailable. Yet we persist with a 4-2-3-1 with Herrera being underwhelming in the #10 position and Fellaini being completely miscast in a midfield duo.

 

[Sylar]

Hes simply not good enough, at least not as a starter, and certainly not as a traditional CM (in 2).

I do not blame him for that, its just the way it is @Amar__ made a fantastic post on the previous page which has yet to be disproved. We are a worse team with him in for the style were trying to play. We have no control, no possession and our defence suffers due to it.

His biggest strengths, hes not even great at it. The number of times he doesnt jump for a ball just infuriates me.

He had a purple patch last season (those four games) which the whole team played well, but other than that, his United career has been as disappointing as most thought it would be.

We need to forget about other players performances at times (theres this need to defend fellaini by saying "at least he was better than x player"). That shouldnt come into it (and X player should be judged in his own thread). As this is the fellaini thread, ok / decent is not good enough for United. For me, its not even that he looks awkward or clumsy, its just that I believe hes not what United should be to get to the next level we were once at.

 

[Varun]

@Akash @Joga Bonito Would need heat maps to know whether his average position is different. I think it is compared to last season.

 

[Ludens the Red]

The longer this nonsense of him starting every game goes on, the longer we are going to look abject in our midfield area. It's funny, Fergie abandoned the midfield for years, two managers have come in and invested heavily in it yet you could argue it's probably in a worse state.
I don't know how we've managed to do that but then nothing surprises me about the shambles this club is becoming any more.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Been good so far. The whole team has really, but he's looking a bit more disciplined in central midfield. He's not launching himself around and leaving enormous gaps. He's been solid in the challenge and winning a lot of balls. I'm no fan of him but can't fault him in the first half.

 

[Scarecrow]

Won quite a few aerials. More than usual.

 

[dichinero]

My mind hasn't changed one bit about him but he hasn't as bad as I thought. He needs to stay back and stay with Carrick, he is no use bombing forward.

 

[dirkey]

Good game from him so far, credit where it is due for sure.

 

[Devil may care]

I know I'll get shit for this and I gave him a 6/10 for the overall game, but we are so wide open in the middle of the park with no mobility in there, and I think his use of the ball is often poor when he gets in good positions, I mean credit to the fact he knows he can't make certain passes, but we need players who can make those passes and keep our forward momentum going.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

I know I'll get shit for this and I gave him a 6/10 for the overall game, but we are so wide open in the middle of the park with no mobility in there, and I think his use of the ball is often poor when he gets in good positions, I mean credit to the fact he knows he can't make certain passes, but we need players who can make those passes and keep our forward momentum going.

It's a fair comment.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Good game from him so far, credit where it is due for sure.

He was shite for me. The midfield was wide open and he slowed us down so many times in posession.

The idea of him being on the pitch is better than the reality of it.

 

[VivaObertan]

I know I'll get shit for this and I gave him a 6/10 for the overall game, but we are so wide open in the middle of the park with no mobility in there, and I think his use of the ball is often poor when he gets in good positions, I mean credit to the fact he knows he can't make certain passes, but we need players who can make those passes and keep our forward momentum going.

What you've said is right about his use of the ball but he's not the only player who has been guilty of killing our tempo in recent games. It's been a common theme throughout the team, imo.

Despite popular opinion, I think he's been one of our most consistent players this season and we do seem to miss his aerial presence defensively when he doesn't play.

 

[dichinero]

I know I'll get shit for this and I gave him a 6/10 for the overall game, but we are so wide open in the middle of the park with no mobility in there, and I think his use of the ball is often poor when he gets in good positions, I mean credit to the fact he knows he can't make certain passes, but we need players who can make those passes and keep our forward momentum going.

Spot on. The vacuum he left in the middle left me concerned at times.

 

[Manny]

He was ok today. Looks more comfortable and composed next to Carrick then he does Schneiderlin. When Schneiderlin and Fellaini play neither want to take responsibility for the ball.

Fellaini tends to pull too far wide probably becauI think it was a conscious effort from LvG to put him on the right side of Carrick to give Martial more space to work in from the left. Thinking back, it probably allowed Mata more space to operate and link up with Martial from the centre too.

Glad he got applauded off too because this was a better performance then what we've seen from him lately.

 

[gza the genius]

He isn't and never will be good enough for us, he has to go. The fact that he plays over Herrera and Schniederlin is baffling, it's as if all he has to do for LVG to justify starting him is win a few headers.

 

[dirkey]

He was shite for me. The midfield was wide open and he slowed us down so many times in posession.

The idea of him being on the pitch is better than the reality of it.

I'm not his biggest fan, but you must be completely blinded to him if you thought he was shite. Kept the ball moving, maybe slower than we'd Iike but recycling possession quickly is not his game, giving out about that is like giving out that Carrick didn't make enough mazy dribbles. He had 2nd most passes in the team at one point and I don't remember him misplacing many. Strange that he apparently left our midfield so open given that stoke created nothing. De Gea make a save?

I'm on record as saying I think he should be sold, but saying he was shite today? Madness or bias, in my humble opinion.

 

[dirkey]

He isn't and never will be good enough for us, he has to go. The fact that he plays over Herrera and Schniederlin is baffling, it's as if all he has to do for LVG to justify starting him is win a few headers.

Yeah, because they've both been lighting it up lately! Herrera rubbish all year and Morgan terrible lately.

 

[Nighteyes]

Fellaini started and we played well. But I thought that was impossible?!? Isn't he supposed to be single handedly bringing the average ability of the squad down by a few magnitudes?

 

[Norris]

I don't why people hate him so much. he like any other footballers, has his attributes which in certain games, we need. I'd prefer a duo of Carrick and Schneidy but vanGaal obviously felt the aerial presence Stoke posed needed a player like him. I'm sure everyone remembers how we spectacularly capitulated in the game he was taken off.

 

[gza the genius]

Yeah, because they've both been lighting it up lately! Herrera rubbish all year and Morgan terrible lately.

They're at least capable of playing good football, I'd rather they be given a chance to play in to some form than watch Fellaini lumber around. Fellaini isn't capable of being good enough for us, the other two are.

 

[devilish]

I always thought he would do well against a team like Stoke.

 

[Roboc7]

He was a bit of a passenger and probably our worst player on the night but he did ok overall and was a solid six out of ten, arguably his best performance of the season which sums up how poor he has been.

 

[Floyd]

The commentator said how many assists he's made in his 58 United matches.

Guess.

I'll give you a little hint: It's ONE (1).

 

[devilish]

The commentator said how many assists he's made in his 58 United matches.

Guess.

I'll give you a little hint: It's ONE (1).

Assists aren't important. His job to bring the ball down and knocking people out

 

[iKeano]

The commentator said how many assists he's made in his 58 United matches.

Guess.

I'll give you a little hint: It's ONE (1).

That assist was a header that hit the crossbar.
His aerial threat is the biggest myth in world football. I long for the day he leaves Utd.

 

[Floyd]

That assist was a header that hit the crossbar.
His aerial threat is the biggest myth in world football. I long for the day he leaves Utd.

The one at Anfield a couple of weeks ago? Jeeeez.

 

[Floyd]

Assists aren't important. His job to bring the ball down and knocking people out

Must admit I laughted when Crouch did him with his arm/elbow.

 

[iKeano]

The one at Anfield a couple of weeks ago? Jeeeez.

The very one. That was also the ONLY header he even jumped for at Anfield.

 

[Floyd]

The very one. That was also the ONLY header he even jumped for at Anfield.

What a player.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

He isn't and never will be good enough for us, he has to go. The fact that he plays over Herrera and Schniederlin is baffling, it's as if all he has to do for LVG to justify starting him is win a few headers.

How? Herrera has been cack all year. Schneiderlin has been poor since his return from injury.

 

[Ballache]

He was OK, not United player in my eyes, takes him ages to release the ball at times.