[Dobbs]

To even say Fellaini's performances have been better as a central midfielder than other players who can actually fecking pass is for me ridiculous.

He has been much worse in my opinion. And the stats seem to back that up.

Some of Schneiderlin and Herrera's passing has been terrible. I think you're paying attention to reputation more than what's happening on the pitch.

Though I agree in that they're only worse at certain times. If the two happen to be playing a little better I'd always have them in before Fellaini.

 

[stevoc]

Some of Schneiderlin and Herrera's passing has been terrible. I think you're paying attention to reputation more than what's happening on the pitch.

Though I agree in that they're only worse at certain times. If the two happen to be playing a little better I'd always have them in before Fellaini.

That's true mate i'm not trying to say different, at times both have been poor passing wise. But Fellaini's passing is terrible all the time and thats my main problem with him playing in CM, we can't control games offensively when he's in there because his touch and passing are woeful. And because he often goes walkabout and leaves his midfield partner isolated we more often than not get overrun in there like last Thursday.

And trust me my opinion on players is only from what i see on the pitch every week.

 

[Perrick Dubois]

What does that even mean?

When I am flying into France and I pull out my French passport to be checked, that is usually one of the times I need to be French.

 

[Mike09]

Seriously mate are you on a fecking wind up?

I just included the stats of the games without the Chelsea and Southampton results because you keep using it to defend him. And guess what we are still shit with him in the side. Did you miss that bit?

Here it is again, P-8, W-3, D-2, L-3 so the loss ratio only comes down slightly to 37.5% from 40%.

So what now, we lose 21% of games without him and 37.5% with him excluding matches you insist on being omitted for silly reasons. Even then when skewing the stats to make him look better it's still blatantly obvious the effect he has on our team. He's shit and he makes us even shitter than we already are.




Nah mate you are still missing the point or purposely ignoring it to be honest this is tedious beyond belief now.

You are focusing on two minor details and using it to try to argue that Fellaini isn't that detrimental to the team. News flash he was playing shit in both the Southampton and Chelsea games. He without a doubt hindered our play and as a result we only scored 1 goal over two matches. The score lines when he was taken off were in spite of his presence not because of it. We weren't beating Chelsea because Fellaini was in the team.

Which ever way you want to twist things theres no way around it he has been awful all season. And everytime he plays we are a worse team because of his presence. So you keep banging on about the Southampton loss and the Chelsea draw having nothing to do with him because he was taken off 10 minutes before the end like it even matters to the overall point. Or changes the fact this year Fellaini has been one of the worst players to pull on a United shirt in living memory if that makes you feel better.

Whatever. This discussion will have no end if we keep circle this around. And I even tell you my original post and you still think I am defending Fellaini, and clearly what I have been saying is we are still playing poor when he was playing and not. What I have been doing is blaming all players for not playing well and manager tactic but you are scapegoating Fellaini for those results. This is what happen when someone only rely on % of stats without watching the actual game especially the ones against Southampton and Chelsea. I can't believe you actually blaming and assuming Fellaini started the game is the reason why we lost point in those games.

 

[Ash_G]

I think the main problem with him is that whilst he can look as an individual that he is contributing (i.e. in Liverpool game second half where he won the ball a lot) his impact on the rest of the team is too negative imo, he takes too much away. With him purely offering a physical presence in the midfield and no real creativity and mostly only threat from set pieces (which tbh it's not like he gets a lot of goals/assists even from them- though in fairness our deliveries often are poor), coupled with say Schniederlin or even Carrick who's struggled recently and neither of which are particularly creative, there's just not enough happening in the middle. Add to that he's quite tactically indisciplined (I actually think this is something LVG wants him to do but a lot of the times it causes more problems for us I'd say).

Add to that he just does not fit in with what the players around him want to do. Personally I'd say whilst the quality isn't always there the likes of Mata, Martial, Herrera, Depay, Rashford are on similar wavelengths and can compliment each other. Fellaini doesn't. For example he'll play the ball wide out Martial on the left and then get in the box aiming for a cross, that for me isn't Martial's strength. We should be looking to bring him in closer to the box where he can run in and create an opening (personally I think it's crazy that we don't base our game plan on the left on getting Martial in to these positions). He doesn't play the ball quick enough in tight areas where we can work something. Ultimately his aim is to play it wide and get it in the box, similar in many ways to Rooney when he plays deeper. Problem is we don't have any good crossers in those sorts of areas.

Fellaini as he is could work in a system where we have much more reliable attackers who could do things more consistently as individuals. For example whilst I think Fletcher at his best was much more than a destroyer in the middle, back in say 09 when we played him there with again a slower/deeper partner in the middle it didn't matter so much that between him and say Carrick they weren't particularly creative because they would retain possession and use it smart and give to the likes of Ronaldo or prime Rooney who could then do something with it. We're not in that position atm and we can't constantly have a player in the middle who offers very little to team rhythm/build up in open play. If Fellaini could play as the deepest midfielder then it probably would be ok but we don't have the attack in play to have him play in the role he does. This is a bigger problem against teams that sit back on us than against teams who will come at us where he can be effective there as more space opens up on the counter.

It really is odd how much LVG seems to rate him, as the stats show he does seem to have on the whole a considerably negative impact on the team. I mean I think he can be effective in certain situations and he has proved that but LVG has elevated him to a level of importance that I personally find bizarre. None of the teams around us/internationally need a player like him and certainly don't start one as often.

 

[Dobbs]

I think the main problem with him is that whilst he can look as an individual that he is contributing (i.e. in Liverpool game second half where he won the ball a lot) his impact on the rest of the team is too negative imo, he takes too much away. With him purely offering a physical presence in the midfield and no real creativity and mostly only threat from set pieces (which tbh it's not like he gets a lot of goals/assists even from them- though in fairness our deliveries often are poor), coupled with say Schniederlin or even Carrick who's struggled recently and neither of which are particularly creative, there's just not enough happening in the middle. Add to that he's quite tactically indisciplined (I actually think this is something LVG wants him to do but a lot of the times it causes more problems for us I'd say).

Add to that he just does not fit in with what the players around him want to do. Personally I'd say whilst the quality isn't always there the likes of Mata, Martial, Herrera, Depay, Rashford are on similar wavelengths and can compliment each other. Fellaini doesn't. For example he'll play the ball wide out Martial on the left and then get in the box aiming for a cross, that for me isn't Martial's strength. We should be looking to bring him in closer to the box where he can run in and create an opening (personally I think it's crazy that we don't base our game plan on the left on getting Martial in to these positions). He doesn't play the ball quick enough in tight areas where we can work something. Ultimately his aim is to play it wide and get it in the box, similar in many ways to Rooney when he plays deeper. Problem is we don't have any good crossers in those sorts of areas.

Fellaini as he is could work in a system where we have much more reliable attackers who could do things more consistently as individuals. For example whilst I think Fletcher at his best was much more than a destroyer in the middle, back in say 09 when we played him there with again a slower/deeper partner in the middle it didn't matter so much that between him and say Carrick they weren't particularly creative because they would retain possession and use it smart and give to the likes of Ronaldo or prime Rooney who could then do something with it. We're not in that position atm and we can't constantly have a player in the middle who offers very little to team rhythm/build up in open play. If Fellaini could play as the deepest midfielder then it probably would be ok but we don't have the attack in play to have him play in the role he does. This is a bigger problem against teams that sit back on us than against teams who will come at us where he can be effective there as more space opens up on the counter.

It really is odd how much LVG seems to rate him, as the stats show he does seem to have on the whole a considerably negative impact on the team. I mean I think he can be effective in certain situations and he has proved that but LVG has elevated him to a level of importance that I personally find bizarre. None of the teams around us/internationally need a player like him and certainly don't start one as often.

Good post, agree with all of it.

Signing him was frustrating, playing him so often more so. The way we use him though is the biggest failing.

Against us I always remember him receiving the ball in the penalty area(or on the edge) with his back to goal. From there he's difficult to knock off the ball and would use his angular awkwardness to roll defenders or lay it off.

We've stopped him doing that and moved him 20 yards further back. From which distance the games becomes more complicated for him.

You should always get footballers to do what they're good at.

 

[Ash_G]

Good post, agree with all of it.

Signing him was frustrating, playing him so often more so. The way we use him though is the biggest failing.

Against us I always remember him receiving the ball in the penalty area(or on the edge) with his back to goal. From there he's difficult to knock off the ball and would use his angular awkwardness to roll defenders or lay it off.

We've stopped him doing that and moved him 20 yards further back. From which distance the games becomes more complicated for him.

You should always get footballers to do what they're good at.

Cheers. Yeah he either needs to be used as a number 10 which personally I don't want as we shouldn't need to play that way and also no one else bar him suits that approach in the team or be used more as an impact player. As I said he can be a useful squad player for us but it's crazy that he's almost a cert to start when he's fit.

 

[Adisa]

Will start tonight. No doubt about it.

 

[Bwuk]

Will start tonight. No doubt about it.

Yeah he always seems to start when fit.

Sadly if he does I can't see us winning.

 

[Walrus]

Back about a month ago, I think it was two games again Liverpool and Southampton. In the first one we had Fellaini playing, had the lead, took him off after about 80 minutes and Southampton scored a late equaliser from a header from a set piece (possibly a corner): the sort of thing Fellaini has been comfortably defending all season.

The following game (again I think it was a Liverpool game but not sure) Fellaini didn't play and we conceded another two goals from set pieces.

After that, I suspect LVG sees Fellaini as almost one of the first names on the team sheet, especially if we play Blind at CB who is not particularly physical or good in the air.

Fellaini is an average passer, gets up and down the pitch well to contribute at both ends. He adds some steel and physicality to the midfield which in my opinion is something needed. Frankly I think Fellaini is something of a leader on the pitch - he isn't a coward, he always gives it 100% and doesn't give up when the chips are down - these are all qualities which his detractors laugh off and label as unimportant, but I have seen games without Fellaini where our team looks utterly void of any aggression, passion or leadership, and basically look like a bunch of cowards.

What I like about Fellaini in our current system is that he is able to play a more box to box role in a 2-man midfield, when compared to the likes of Carrick, Schneiderlin and Herrera. The trouble with a 4-2-3-1 when we play with two pure holding midfielders is that it leaves the attack a bit undermanned. It has been a cause of endless frustration at times this season that even against teams that we should have been comfortably beating, we play such a defensive lineup and it stifles our attack. Fellaini supports the attack, presses defenders when appropriate, but still gets back and does a good amount of defensive work in our own half.
Of course, when his detractors see this, they just say that he has no positional discipline and pass it off as a bad thing, but I would prefer seeing Fellaini getting up and down the pitch than another infuriating Carrick/Schneiderlin game where neither is prepared to get forward or leave the halfway line.*

I have always said I would prefer us to playa proper 3-man midfield like we did last season, and that he entire team would benefit from it. But as long as we are playing 4-2-3-1 I prefer to see a box to box player who can support the attack, than two dedicated holding mids.

*regarding Herrera, it is difficult to classify him, but I think LVG sees using him in a 2 man midfield as a bit unbalanced to use against decent opposition, though this is just my view of course.

 

[Dans]

Let's hope he's on the bench tonight.

 

[dichinero]

Back about a month ago, I think it was two games again Liverpool and Southampton. In the first one we had Fellaini playing, had the lead, took him off after about 80 minutes and Southampton scored a late equaliser from a header from a set piece (possibly a corner): the sort of thing Fellaini has been comfortably defending all season.

The following game (again I think it was a Liverpool game but not sure) Fellaini didn't play and we conceded another two goals from set pieces.

After that, I suspect LVG sees Fellaini as almost one of the first names on the team sheet, especially if we play Blind at CB who is not particularly physical or good in the air.

Fellaini is an average passer, gets up and down the pitch well to contribute at both ends. He adds some steel and physicality to the midfield which in my opinion is something needed. Frankly I think Fellaini is something of a leader on the pitch - he isn't a coward, he always gives it 100% and doesn't give up when the chips are down - these are all qualities which his detractors laugh off and label as unimportant, but I have seen games without Fellaini where our team looks utterly void of any aggression, passion or leadership, and basically look like a bunch of cowards.

What I like about Fellaini in our current system is that he is able to play a more box to box role in a 2-man midfield, when compared to the likes of Carrick, Schneiderlin and Herrera. The trouble with a 4-2-3-1 when we play with two pure holding midfielders is that it leaves the attack a bit undermanned. It has been a cause of endless frustration at times this season that even against teams that we should have been comfortably beating, we play such a defensive lineup and it stifles our attack. Fellaini supports the attack, presses defenders when appropriate, but still gets back and does a good amount of defensive work in our own half.
Of course, when his detractors see this, they just say that he has no positional discipline and pass it off as a bad thing, but I would prefer seeing Fellaini getting up and down the pitch than another infuriating Carrick/Schneiderlin game where neither is prepared to get forward or leave the halfway line.*

I have always said I would prefer us to playa proper 3-man midfield like we did last season, and that he entire team would benefit from it. But as long as we are playing 4-2-3-1 I prefer to see a box to box player who can support the attack, than two dedicated holding mids.

*regarding Herrera, it is difficult to classify him, but I think LVG sees using him in a 2 man midfield as a bit unbalanced to use against decent opposition, though this is just my view of course.

I find this bit exaggerated

 

[dirkey]

If he starts tonight, we go out. Simple.


Edit: Man I'd love to have egg on my face with this statement.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Back about a month ago, I think it was two games again Liverpool and Southampton. In the first one we had Fellaini playing, had the lead, took him off after about 80 minutes and Southampton scored a late equaliser from a header from a set piece (possibly a corner): the sort of thing Fellaini has been comfortably defending all season.

The following game (again I think it was a Liverpool game but not sure) Fellaini didn't play and we conceded another two goals from set pieces..

We never had the lead against Southampton. They scored in the last minute and we lost 0-1. Fellaini came off at half time because he was awful. Really awful.

The following game was Stoke, we beat them 3-0. We played Liverpool the game before Southampton and beat them 1-0.

 

[eggwithsideburns]

He is incredibly average as a cm so if he starts there for us it doesn't bode well.

 

[Siorac]

Back about a month ago, I think it was two games again Liverpool and Southampton. In the first one we had Fellaini playing, had the lead, took him off after about 80 minutes and Southampton scored a late equaliser from a header from a set piece (possibly a corner): the sort of thing Fellaini has been comfortably defending all season.

The following game (again I think it was a Liverpool game but not sure) Fellaini didn't play and we conceded another two goals from set pieces.

After that, I suspect LVG sees Fellaini as almost one of the first names on the team sheet, especially if we play Blind at CB who is not particularly physical or good in the air.

We lost to Southampton 1-0 and beat Liverpool 1-0 a week before that. Fellaini was taken off at half time in that Soton game, not after 80 minutes. No wonder you see his performances differently to the majority here, you don't actually remember them!

I agree that LVG sees Fellaini as one of the first names on the team sheet. I just do not believe this is a reasonable and good thing. And if he did indeed base it on one game, then why not the Newcastle game at St. James' Park, where we conceded three and were aerially dominated throughout despite having Fellaini?

 

[MDFC Manager]

The problem with him playing is that everyone, especially the defenders and keeper, start hoofing it to him. It's a bloody eyesore.

If we were to actually cut out that tactic, I'm certain that he'd actually be far more useful.

 

[Zoo]

If Van Gaal had bought a reliable CB to partner Smalling then he wouldn't need to have Fellaini starting as much for his defensive ability on setpieces.

 

[kouroux]

A friend of mine asked me why he has big hair like he does because it can actually affect his panoramic view. Does he have a point ? I have no idea tbh.

 

[Sandikan]

A friend of mine asked me why he has big hair like he does because it can actually affect his panoramic view. Does he have a point ? I have no idea tbh.

You'd think it would affect him wouldn't you. Either in reducing vision, or being bloody heavy.

But as he's had it like that for so long, and seemingly no club has told him to sort it out, perhaps not.

 

[Sandikan]

In terms of him starting tonight, there's no real need, as Liverpool aren't stacked with tall goons.

Therefore, I'm hoping for a more dynamic mid and attack

 

[harms]

Why?!!
Starting again, no words...

 

[Raw]

Is anyone really surprised though.

I really hope he proves me wrong tonight. Somehow.

 

[kouroux]

You'd think it would affect him wouldn't you. Either in reducing vision, or being bloody heavy.

But as he's had it like that for so long, and seemingly no club has told him to sort it out, perhaps not.

I just put on a hoodie to sort of replicate his hair and honestly it has to affect him somehow.I felt limited and restricted. It's a bit stupid that a pro footballer who is poor enough already, would handicap himself

 

[IBleedRed]

Maybe someday when he really needs to play his best, he will cut his hair (like someone who trains with weighted clothing/body weights) and he will be amazing.
Unfortunately today doesn't look like that day.

 

[Steven Seagull]

He's gonna run the show tonight. Dominate physically and drive us to victory with slick passing and a deft touch. Come on Fellstar

 

[Sandikan]

I just put on a hoodie to sort of replicate his hair and honestly it has to affect him somehow.I felt limited and restricted. It's a bit stupid that a pro footballer who is poor enough already, would handicap himself

You get guys with dreadlocks and stuff playing footy that also can't help. But for some the hair is part of their identity.

I'm sure someone like Pat Rafter, was getting whiplash from his long hair so had to trim it. That's the only time I've heard of hair affecting performance.

 

[red_devil83]

I hope the next manager free transfers him

 

[Sandikan]

He's gonna run the show tonight. Dominate physically and drive us to victory with slick passing and a deft touch. Come on Fellstar

After apparently getting away with smashing someone last game, it should be textbook that he has a big impact on the game.
Bit like Payet diving and should have seen red, then scoring that goal.

 

[lilcurt]

He's gonna run the show tonight. Dominate physically and drive us to victory with slick passing and a deft touch. Come on Fellstar

This is made me spit my pint out. Well done lad.

 

[Dans]

fecks sake.

 

[Dans]

Elbows are out. Red tonight I reckon.

 

[Cheesy]

What is his problem?

Like...has a manager never taken him aside, and just told him to just stop doing it?

 

[Sammyjunn]

Some of them are genuine but I dont think all of them are, many players do it but because of his height it looks far more dangerous/un purpose. Still should get booked and get red when it's obvious.

And is playing better than Mata.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He's fab.

 

[Dans]

He is in fact having a decent game.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Not playing too bad, looks like he has a brain today. Depay and him just have those sometimes.

 

[Rado_N]

Probably our best player that half.

 

[seaNNN]

He's been class tonight if only he could be like this more consistently.

 

[The_Midfielder]

He is doing great.. When the defence is pressed, the defenders are passing to his head.. and he is releasing Martail/Rashford..