Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances

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dirkey said:
I think you have a pretty basic grasp on how finances work in businesses. And yes, Manchester United is a business, first and foremost these days. Do you honestly think that when Van Gaal goes to Woodward, who then goes up the chain to the Glazers, and says "I need 30 million for a new midfield" (I'm putting a low estimate here, essentially 1 player, when we all know he needs 2), that they don't say "Eh, hold on a minute. We spent 27 million last year on a midfielder. What is wrong with him? You need to sell him before you buy". It's not like United have a limitless pot of money. Oh sure, we bought one last year, he didn't work out, let's get another. You do realise the club is in huge debt?
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You aren't seriously telling me I have a basic grasp on business finance, then waffling off some ridiculous hypothetical scenario which you've made up in your head about how things work? Surely not?.. Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? Even more-so if you believe any of that garbage?

I don't pretend to know what's going on even if you don't know that I work in the finance sector. So let's not pretend we have all the information on the inner workings of the club. Hence my whole 'fan stigma' post.
dirkey said:
As for it being his dream to play for United ... of course it is!
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Despite being quoted as having the dream from a young age, you know.. There's that. Well played, I think we're done here.
 
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golden_blunder said:
Not the worst player ever to sign for United, as some have said..

Djemba djemba was the worst in my lifetime
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Value for money I think he is. Veron at least had some moments of brilliance. Anderson had a few big games for us at important times but Fellaini is just terrible and I cringe every time I see him walk out in a United shirt.
 
goldenstatesplash said:
You aren't seriously telling me I have a basic grasp on business finance, then waffling off some ridiculous hypothetical scenario which you've made up in your head about how things work? Surely not?.. Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? Even more-so if you believe any of that garbage?

I don't pretend to know what's going on even if you don't know that I work in the finance sector. So let's not pretend we have all the information on the inner workings of the club. Hence my whole 'fan stigma' post.Despite being quoted as having the dream from a young age, you know.. There's that. Well played, I think we're done here.
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Right, so my hypothetical scenario is less believeable than yours, a world where spending 27 million on a player doesn't matter, one who is of no use? To a club heavily in debt?

So Fellaini mentioned having the dream from a young age? Must be true so! As I said, Robbie Keane has called it a childhood dream to play for practically every club he played for, so forgive me for taking Fellaini's comments with a pinch of salt. My point is that, he would have said the same for any team he joined.
 
goldenstatesplash said:
You aren't seriously telling me I have a basic grasp on business finance, then waffling off some ridiculous hypothetical scenario which you've made up in your head about how things work? Surely not?.. Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? Even more-so if you believe any of that garbage?

I don't pretend to know what's going on even if you don't know that I work in the finance sector.
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As someone who works in the financial sector then you's surely appreciate that any businessman would prefer to use any incoming cash from the disposal of an investment gone bad that's also hemorrhaging a tonne of money through wages, the little we can get for him will contribute towards getting someone more useful . If could get someone stupid enough to pay £15m for him then we shift him and invest that money in a younger player, who could earn less and help us recover that loss . Persisting in vain hope won't help us one bit because it means us paying him whatever he is on for every week he remains our player .
To that nonsense you have been spouting that we are too big to worry about a player earning around £100k/wk, well, I have news for you, we have stayed this big by carefully managing that particular aspect . The money he earns could be put to better use by using it in luring a much better player than him and believe me there are about 50-100 midfield players who are better than him and don't earn anything close to what he does .
 
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itso 7 said:
As someone who works in the financial sector then you's surely appreciate that any businessman would prefer to use any incoming cash from the disposal of an investment gone bad that's also hemorrhaging a tonne of money through wages . If could get someone stupid enough to pay £15m for him then we shift him and invest that money in a younger player, who could earn less and help us recover that loss . Persisting in vain hope won't help us one bit because it means us paying him whatever he is on for every week he is our player .
To that nonsense you have been spouting that we are too big to worry about a player earning around £100k/wk, well, I have news for you, we have stayed this big by carefully managing that particular aspect . The money ge earns could be put to better use by using it in luring a much better player than him and believe me there are about 50-100 midfield players qho are better than him and do earn close to what he does .
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Spot on, kind of the point I've been trying to make, but put together much more eloquently & succinctly. Good job!
 
After losing Keane and Scholes (twice) this toilet brush became our first midfield signing in 6 years.

After losing Lampard, Chelsea bought Fabregas within a couple of weeks.
 
dirkey said:
Spot on, kind of the point I've been trying to make, but put together much more eloquently & succinctly. Good job!
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You needed someone to go so far off topic to make a point that you were trying to discuss? That's pretty laughable in itself.
itso 7 said:
To that nonsense you have been spouting that we are too big to worry about a player earning around £100k/wk, well, I have news for you, we have stayed this big by carefully managing that particular aspect.
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You've just spelled out the entire hypocrisy of your post. The club wouldn't enter into an investment unless it had a window of opportunity. We're not talking about a significant investment in terms of player cost to the value of the squad. It's blatantly obvious when in the season after they've spent a club record fee they've just upped Rooney's money. It's just complete fabricated lunacy to suggest that not sticking by an investment and losing money at the first possible opportunity is 'good business'. It's nothing but the delusional moaning from fans who think they have a personal stake through their fanaticism. The club sells real estate of it's anus to finance the entire club. On top of the various other income streams.

Again, for about the 9th time now. I'm not presuming to talk of knowing the clubs financial situations, including organization of critical finance. It's merely an observation on our previous transfer structure that the club doesn't enter into financial deals if they don't think they are viable. If the loons hypothetically want to throw away money then it's exactly why they aren't in charge of the club in the first place. Which is a good thing. Fans need to stop being armchair businessmen that are disconnected from reality and start getting in touch with what it means to be a fan again.
 
Boycott said:
After losing Keane and Scholes (twice) this toilet brush became our first midfield signing in 6 years.

After losing Lampard, Chelsea bought Fabregas within a couple of weeks.
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When you say it that way..... :(
 
goldenstatesplash said:
You needed someone to go so far off topic to make a point that you were trying to discuss? That's pretty laughable in itself.

You've just spelled out the entire hypocrisy of your post. The club wouldn't enter into an investment unless it had a window of opportunity. We're not talking about a significant investment in terms of player cost to the value of the squad. It's blatantly obvious when in the season after they've spent a club record fee they've just upped Rooney's money. It's just complete fabricated lunacy to suggest that not sticking by an investment and losing money at the first possible opportunity is 'good business'. It's nothing but the delusional moaning from fans who think they have a personal stake through their fanaticism. The club sells real estate of it's anus to finance the entire club. On top of the various other income streams.

Again, for about the 9th time now. I'm not presuming to talk of knowing the clubs financial situations, including organization of critical finance. It's merely an observation on our previous transfer structure that the club doesn't enter into financial deals if they don't think they are viable. If the loons hypothetically want to throw away money then it's exactly why they aren't in charge of the club in the first place. Which is a good thing. Fans need to stop being armchair businessmen that are disconnected from reality and start getting in touch with what it means to be a fan again.
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And there is the problem in this whole lopsided argument you have been trying to push forth since the last week I guess. You don't know anything but have been calling everyone with a different view "loon", "toddler", armchair businessmen" and yet don't have the first clue about how most businesses are run. The other point about how the club has behaved previously, well, news flash for you, the club is no longer SAF's and Gill's stronghold. We have a new incoming manager which the club never had to countenance in the previous years so SAF was ready to stick by his call on a player.

The club may see fit in getting rid of an investment which they feel will turn bad down the line. They may feel it's better to cash in now than to wait further when it's value drops. A lot of this depends on the incoming manager. The club bought out DHL's sponsorship one year into the deal because it was getting a better deal from AON. They bought out the sponsorship, not just terminate it. So they knew which investment was better in the long term and were ready to take a small hit along the way.

Now I am not comparing the two situations but this just shows that the club will take a decision with a long term view rather than a short term one of not losing X amount of money in a year. If Fellaini is not in the manager's plan, he will go. The club won't think it is stupid to lose 10 million in one year. They just handed Moyes a 7 million payout FFS. So if they are willing to lose money on a long term investment like Moyes, what gives you this notion they will not do it with a player if he is deemed not good enough by the incoming manager.
 
Boycott said:
After losing Keane and Scholes (twice) this toilet brush became our first midfield signing in 6 years.

After losing Lampard, Chelsea bought Fabregas within a couple of weeks.
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The depressing truth :(
 
goldenstatesplash said:
You needed someone to go so far off topic to make a point that you were trying to discuss? That's pretty laughable in itself.

You've just spelled out the entire hypocrisy of your post. The club wouldn't enter into an investment unless it had a window of opportunity. We're not talking about a significant investment in terms of player cost to the value of the squad. It's blatantly obvious when in the season after they've spent a club record fee they've just upped Rooney's money. It's just complete fabricated lunacy to suggest that not sticking by an investment and losing money at the first possible opportunity is 'good business'. It's nothing but the delusional moaning from fans who think they have a personal stake through their fanaticism. The club sells real estate of it's anus to finance the entire club. On top of the various other income streams.

Again, for about the 9th time now. I'm not presuming to talk of knowing the clubs financial situations, including organization of critical finance. It's merely an observation on our previous transfer structure that the club doesn't enter into financial deals if they don't think they are viable. If the loons hypothetically want to throw away money then it's exactly why they aren't in charge of the club in the first place. Which is a good thing. Fans need to stop being armchair businessmen that are disconnected from reality and start getting in touch with what it means to be a fan again.
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I'm not really sure why you think the post I quoted was off topic but fair enough. You think my views are laughable, again fair enough. I think we'll just have to agree to differ right now and see what happens with fellaini now that Louis is in charge.
 
Boycott said:
After losing Keane and Scholes (twice) this toilet brush became our first midfield signing in 6 years.

After losing Lampard, Chelsea bought Fabregas within a couple of weeks.
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We did prepare bids for a lot of players though
 
Fellaini has disappointed this season, but our fans have been unrealistic and haven't shown loyalty to him. If you look at it in a objective way, you can come to the conclusion that this season wasn't meant to be for Fellaini. He came at United with an injury, so he couldn't really start the season as he wanted, players who come from non-topclubs always need time to acclamatise, he starts injured with a bad performing United, when he comes back they are still performing bad, he is used in a role wich doesn't suit him. He is not the creative type, he is a box to box or a VM, that's what suits him best. If you expect him to have a 100% pass rate, give cross passes to the forward lines, give through balls etc, your expectances are just not right. So he has had a difficult start, didn't get the chance to acclamatise wel, is not fully fit, is used in the wrong role, and gets lot of criticism from everyone and has probably broken down like Cleverley (mentally). Do you guys really think that the lad is such a poor player, you forgot how he dominated our midfield, City's midfield, Liverpool's midfield. When he was close to being signed by Chelsea, he was being called the 2nd best box to box from the PL, and one of the best midfielders in the PL, now he is dogshit in a matter of time? Does that sound logic? Give the guy some time, and let's hope LVG will use him rightly.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Fellaini has disappointed this season, but our fans have been unrealistic and haven't shown loyalty to him. If you look at it in a objective way, you can come to the conclusion that this season wasn't meant to be for Fellaini. He came at United with an injury, so he couldn't really start the season as he wanted, players who come from non-topclubs always need time to acclamatise, he starts injured with a bad performing United, when he comes back they are still performing bad, he is used in a role wich doesn't suit him. He is not the creative type, he is a box to box or a VM, that's what suits him best. If you expect him to have a 100% pass rate, give cross passes to the forward lines, give through balls etc, your expectances are just not right. So he has had a difficult start, didn't get the chance to acclamatise wel, is not fully fit, is used in the wrong role, and gets lot of criticism from everyone and has probably broken down like Cleverley (mentally). Do you guys really think that the lad is such a poor player, you forgot how he dominated our midfield, City's midfield, Liverpool's midfield. When he was close to being signed by Chelsea, he was being called the 2nd best box to box from the PL, and one of the best midfielders in the PL, now he is dogshit in a matter of time? Does that sound logic? Give the guy some time, and let's hope LVG will use him rightly.
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And yet he ended up with us while Chelsea got second best Fabregas. Aren't we lucky?
 
NK86 said:
And there is the problem in this whole lopsided argument you have been trying to push forth since the last week I guess. You don't know anything but have been calling everyone with a different view "loon", "toddler", armchair businessmen" and yet don't have the first clue about how most businesses are run. The other point about how the club has behaved previously, well, news flash for you, the club is no longer SAF's and Gill's stronghold. We have a new incoming manager which the club never had to countenance in the previous years so SAF was ready to stick by his call on a player.

The club may see fit in getting rid of an investment which they feel will turn bad down the line. They may feel it's better to cash in now than to wait further when it's value drops. A lot of this depends on the incoming manager. The club bought out DHL's sponsorship one year into the deal because it was getting a better deal from AON. They bought out the sponsorship, not just terminate it. So they knew which investment was better in the long term and were ready to take a small hit along the way.

Now I am not comparing the two situations but this just shows that the club will take a decision with a long term view rather than a short term one of not losing X amount of money in a year. If Fellaini is not in the manager's plan, he will go. The club won't think it is stupid to lose 10 million in one year. They just handed Moyes a 7 million payout FFS. So if they are willing to lose money on a long term investment like Moyes, what gives you this notion they will not do it with a player if he is deemed not good enough by the incoming manager.
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You made a great point in that the manager who made those calls and stuck by them, as long as possible, is no longer there . In this particular case the manager who made the call on Fellaini and is possibly the only one daft or backward enough to see his usefulness in a team of our stature is now, thankfully, history .
 
This is the kind of players we've been signing for sometime now, the "safe" option. One that knows the premier league [whatever that means], mostly no other clubs is after and more often than not, we always overpay for this kind of player. Like the signing of Ashley Young, we have just come off a successful season, and instead of using that as a point to attract a top player, we have gone out and massively overpaid for a squad player. Fellaini is a good player, and a very good option to have in a squad, but you pay 27m for a player to go straight into the first team, and we haven't done that. I still believe he can be a good player for us, he's the question, rather than the answer though.
 
legball said:
This is the kind of players we've been signing for sometime now, the "safe" option. One that knows the premier league [whatever that means], mostly no other clubs is after and more often than not, we always overpay for this kind of player. Like the signing of Ashley Young, we have just come off a successful season, and instead of using that as a point to attract a top player, we have gone out and massively overpaid for a squad player. Fellaini is a good player, and a very good option to have in a squad, but you pay 27m for a player to go straight into the first team, and we haven't done that. I still believe he can be a good player for us, he's the question, rather than the answer though.
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Fellaini was not a safe option at all. The Belgian best games came in a role where we're already well stocked in (AM) playing a football style which doesn't suit a top club. The only way Fellaini could make it was to change his style and his role at Everton by playing deeper and actually prove useful.

If you ask me, Moyes brought Fellaini because he needed people who would sweat blood for him. Fellaini knew that his destiny was tied to that of Moyes and if Scot leave then so would he. Politics does play a huge role in football.
 
kouroux said:
What if no CM is bought this summer ?
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Honestly I wouldn't be surprised at all. You just have to watch MUTV. Those who pushed for 6 signings at the end of the season are already backtracking quickly saying that 2-3 players are more then enough.
 
It's a crazy world where Fellaini and Fabregas cost the same amount of money. Not saying that we should have signed Fabregas, but just commenting on the ridiculousness of the situation. We need to be more careful with our money. We have spent a lot of money on average players in recent seasons.
 
devilish said:
Fellaini was not a safe option at all. The Belgian best games came in a role where we're already well stocked in (AM) playing a football style which doesn't suit a top club. The only way Fellaini could make it was to change his style and his role at Everton by playing deeper and actually prove useful.

If you ask me, Moyes brought Fellaini because he needed people who would sweat blood for him. Fellaini knew that his destiny was tied to that of Moyes and if Scot leave then so would he. Politics does play a huge role in football.
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That's the exact reason why i called it a safe option [not safe in a footballing point of view], we had Strootman and Thiago lined up, but Moyes went for someone he "knew" and the rest is history :lol:.
 
Bestie07 said:
It's a crazy world where Fellaini and Fabregas cost the same amount of money. Not saying that we should have signed Fabregas, but just commenting on the ridiculousness of the situation. We need to be more careful with our money. We have spent a lot of money on average players in recent seasons.
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I've been saying this for sometime now, people say we have no money to spend and stuff like that, but we have spent a lot recently, we have just spent it on very average players more often that not, with RVP and Kagawa being exceptions.
 
legball said:
That's the exact reason why i called it a safe option [not safe in a footballing point of view], we had Strootman and Thiago lined up, but Moyes went for someone he "knew" and the rest is history :lol:.
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I have heard alot of theories on why Fellaini was bought but the truth is that its all about politics. Managers tend to bring people they can rely on and who knows that things will get bad if that manager is sacked. Hence why I won't be surprised if VG bring 1-2 of his former players with him.
 
legball said:
I've been saying this for sometime now, people say we have no money to spend and stuff like that, but we have spent a lot recently, we have just spent it on very average players more often that not, with RVP and Kagawa being exceptions.
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I don't think that money is the issue. The problem is our lack of ability/willingness to deal in complicated transfers were top agents are involved. Players need to desperately want to come to United to end up signing with us.
 
devilish said:
I don't think that money is the issue. The problem is our lack of ability/willingness to deal in complicated transfers were top agents are involved. Players need to desperately want to come to United to end up signing with us.
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You're right, it's been like this under Ferguson too, but the fact that we kept winning papered over that crack, people are acting as if this started under Woodward.
 
legball said:
You're right, it's been like this under Ferguson too, but the fact that we kept winning papered over that crack, people are acting as if this started under Woodward.
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When something like that happens its either the owner's or the manager's fault. I can't blame the owners for it. They spend some top dollar for the likes of Fellaini, RVP, Kagawa and Mata through the years. So it must be the manager. To be fair, its very difficult to tell 4 homegrown talent (three of which has won alot at United, one of whom is suffering from a chronic illness) that its time for them to pack and leave. It may have been too emotional for SAF and too dangerous for a rookie like Moyesy.

I blame Woodward for his amateur way in dealing with players. The likes of Chelsea are brutally effective, they figure the player they want and they get it in no time. I can't blame him for not spending the cash.
 
kouroux said:
What if no CM is bought this summer ?
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IMO, we will get Shaw (for insane money mind ) and we will miss on our transfers.
Seriously, I love this club and that but transfers-wise I have learn to expect little.

If we don't get anybody Im hoping Van Gal drags us to 4th. otherwise we might find ourselves in a vicious cycle.

thanks Moyes.
 
Sunny Jim said:
IMO, we will get Shaw (for insane money mind ) and we will miss on our transfers.
Seriously, I love this club and that but transfers-wise I have learn to expect little.

If we don't get anybody Im hoping Van Gal drags us to 4th. otherwise we might find ourselves in a vicious cycle.

thanks Moyes.
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If Moyes was actually in any way aware and didn't need a ridiculously long time to get to know the players, despite being a PL manager for years, well then he could have added a few key additions(not exactly big signings) last summer that would have made life a lot easier for himself or Van Gaal if he still didn't manage to finish 4th.
 
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We loss Pogba for free and bought Felliani for 27m, and yet Pogab value has since rised to 30m+ with Felliani drop to 15m or less. That's a 42m+ pure waste of money there due to two bad business deals.
 
RedRonaldo said:
We loss Pogba for free and bought Felliani for 27m, and yet Pogab value has since rised to 30m+ with Felliani drop to 15m or less. That's a 42m+ pure waste of money there due to two bad business deals.
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He was the very player we needed in the middle of the park and we let him to, only to sign Fellaini under David Moyes. It makes no sense at all.

The club needs to get it's act together this summer, or things could get worse.
 
NinjaZombie said:
Not really though. We did sign Carrick, who was a mainstay during one of our most successful period of the modern era.
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Yes he was but now his on the decline, we've yet to replace Scholes despite having the perfect opportunity in Thiago last summer.

Truth is we don't replace our big players when they either leave or retire, Chelsea just lost Lampard and literally weeks later signed Fabregas.
 
We'd honestly have been better off signing no midfielder last Summer than signing this guy. If we get £15m for him we'll have done brilliantly.
 
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