Mario Götze - Transfer Discussion | Bayern: Götze will cost €40m

Balu said:
Götze himself has been really quiet and focused throughout his time at Bayern. And I haven't read anything negative about his attitude or his effort in training, so I don't think you can really blame him that way. It's just not working well in the games so far.

Part of the problem is in my opinion, that he has been moved around way way too much. It already happened in his first season, when Pep experimented too much with his tactics. Then in the first half of last season, Götze constantly played as an left-ish attacking midfielder with Bernat overlapping and Alaba making runs down the left wing as well. He got better and better and played consistently great for 2 months. That's when we played our best football under Pep so far, including the 7-1 in Roma.

But once Lahm and Alaba got injured and Ribery came back, Götze was again constantly moved around, at times played as a CM next to Alonso. And his form started to drop and he never regained it, which really was a shame. We could have used him in that form towards the end of the season when Ribery was again out injured. Still, Götze needs to do better and cement his place in the team or he won't become happy here.
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We played our best football because somehow this team always plays best with 4 forwards (how Pep would name them) and not with 3. Because of the midfield injuries Pep had to play with 4... Just look at the results in the last 2 (or even 5 years) - you will find out that all the good matches happened like this... - and that the bad matches often had only 3...

With Götze - it is not this being moved around... - and who do you want to let out for Götze so that he is not? If he wants to have a spot guaranteed he should not play for a top club...

What I do not understand is that he was the main assistant at Dortmund - and when I look at his matches for the German team or for Bayern he hardly has any assists. Even if he was not working on a 10 - he was working behind the striker and in the final third - and 2 assists (if you take whoscored - if you take kicker who includes drawing penalties etc. it is 4) in 2183 Bundesliga minutes is nothing I would expect of him. Just to compare - Rode who is just a bit-part player on the 8 has 5, Schweinsteiger 4, Alonso 3 (who scored).
 
Don't really think he's that good, personally. A fair few young talented #10s I'd have higher in a wishlist.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Don't really think he's that good, personally. A fair few young talented #10s I'd have higher in a wishlist.
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I've always seem him as more of a forward/second striker/wide forward than a playmaker like Silva or Fabregas tbh. Although I have to admit i haven't seen enough to make a proper judgement.
 
I think he's going to be wasted at Bayern. I could see him reuniting with Klopp at some point, possibly even (gulp) at Bayern.
 
Balu said:
Götze himself has been really quiet and focused throughout his time at Bayern. And I haven't read anything negative about his attitude or his effort in training, so I don't think you can really blame him that way. It's just not working well in the games so far.

Part of the problem is in my opinion, that he has been moved around way way too much. It already happened in his first season, when Pep experimented too much with his tactics. Then in the first half of last season, Götze constantly played as an left-ish attacking midfielder with Bernat overlapping and Alaba making runs down the left wing as well. He got better and better and played consistently great for 2 months. That's when we played our best football under Pep so far, including the 7-1 in Roma.

But once Lahm and Alaba got injured and Ribery came back, Götze was again constantly moved around, at times played as a CM next to Alonso. And his form started to drop and he never regained it, which really was a shame. We could have used him in that form towards the end of the season when Ribery was again out injured. Still, Götze needs to do better and cement his place in the team or he won't become happy here.
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I agree regarding Pep's constant changes not being ideal for him to hit a run of consistent form but do you think his agent would make these statements unless they're coming from gotze himself? I have no info about his attitude, wasn't questioning that. Certainly seems frustrated though judging by his agent's complains.
 
Ramshock said:
They dont have much better players. You are underestimating our players
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I don't think there's a single outfield position where we have a better player. The gap varies from position to position obviously.
 
Blackwidow said:
We played our best football because somehow this team always plays best with 4 forwards (how Pep would name them) and not with 3. Because of the midfield injuries Pep had to play with 4... Just look at the results in the last 2 (or even 5 years) - you will find out that all the good matches happened like this... - and that the bad matches often had only 3...

With Götze - it is not this being moved around... - and who do you want to let out for Götze so that he is not? If he wants to have a spot guaranteed he should not play for a top club...

What I do not understand is that he was the main assistant at Dortmund - and when I look at his matches for the German team or for Bayern he hardly has any assists. Even if he was not working on a 10 - he was working behind the striker and in the final third - and 2 assists (if you take whoscored - if you take kicker who includes drawing penalties etc. it is 4) in 2183 Bundesliga minutes is nothing I would expect of him. Just to compare - Rode who is just a bit-part player on the 8 has 5, Schweinsteiger 4, Alonso 3 (who scored).
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This is the point I was making. He moved to Bayern knowing fully well the squad they had. To complain now about not being a cert starter is just bizarre. Especially when he's played a lot.
 
Bayern obviously have a much better set of players than we do. It's not even debatable.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
@Balu
@Ish84045

Good posts and info guy, thanks..

FWIW Arsenal have been linked to him this summer a few times, no great sources or quotes though, they like the mentally gentle (Ozil) ;)
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On what basis do you hold the opinion that Ozil is mentally gentle?

Couldn't be further from the truth.
 
Ish84045 said:
I'm pretty sure if a decent'ish bid came in, Bayern will consider. He's not exactly lived up to the hype/potential since his move. He's a tough one to analyze for me, personally.

I've not watched him enough to form an opinion, & the little I've watched of him, he's never really impressed me. Not as much as someone like Reus has, for instance.

But then I'm told how amazing he is and how much better than Neymar he is. This was the Caf around +- 2 years ago. (Not having a go at anyone - he could well have been up there at that point. He's stalled a bit since). But yeah, would be all for this transfer.

But with Ribery and Robben nearing the end, maybe he'll get his time to shine? @Balu can maybe shed some light from a Bayern perspective.
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Woah! Have you read the CAF posts from the future? Do we win the title soon? Do tell!
 
Blackwidow said:
What I do not understand is that he was the main assistant at Dortmund - and when I look at his matches for the German team or for Bayern he hardly has any assists. Even if he was not working on a 10 - he was working behind the striker and in the final third - and 2 assists (if you take whoscored - if you take kicker who includes drawing penalties etc. it is 4) in 2183 Bundesliga minutes is nothing I would expect of him. Just to compare - Rode who is just a bit-part player on the 8 has 5, Schweinsteiger 4, Alonso 3 (who scored).
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I don't get the obsession with stats. It was obvious throughout our great run that Götze's role was to link up play in the final third. He was easily our best player in tight space and could keep the ball under pressure and distribute it to someone who was then playing the final pass. It was a crucial role that probably only Thiago can play as good as Götze in our squad and it was truely important for our best form this season. As a comparison, Iniesta had only 3 assists in 34 league games in 10/11 and Iniesta's role was kinda similar to the one I described above. Obviously Iniesta's been a better player and stepped up for more individually great moments back then, especially in the CL, but it's still telling how the role in the team influences the stats and how the pure numbers mean feck all without context.
 
The Purist said:
On what basis do you hold the opinion that Ozil is mentally gentle?

Couldn't be further from the truth.
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How so? He wanted a move because he couldn't perform where he wasn't the main man, he needs his 'well done', arm round the shoulder... It was only tongue in cheek about MG, but MO I would say has a fragile mentality, he's not a fighter
 
Ramshock said:
They dont have much better players. You are underestimating our players
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Take our starting XIs... I'm not sure exactly who they would play, but our best (name wise) has to be:
DDG, Valencia Smalling Jones Shaw, Herrera Carrick Di Maria Memphis Rooney Mata

@Balu can you give me a quick average XI for BM so I can compare accurately, and would you say Bayern have on the whole much better players? Or do you think it's closer than I do..
 
Never rated him tbh and would not like him here.. reminds me of Rooney and Mata but the past their peak versions.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Take our starting XIs... I'm not sure exactly who they would play, but our best (name wise) has to be:
DDG, Valencia Smalling Jones Shaw, Herrera Carrick Di Maria Memphis Rooney Mata

@Balu can you give me a quick average XI for BM so I can compare accurately, and would you say Bayern have on the whole much better players? Or do you think it's closer than I do..
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Off the top of my head, I can think of close to Bayern's best individuals/team (what formation they play is anyone's guess though :lol:):

Neuer, Lahm, Boateng, Martinez, Bernat, Alaba, Thiago, Schweinsteiger, Muller, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski.

That's 12 players. With Gotze, Rafinha, Alonso, Badstuber (quality but have suffered injuries), Dante, Benatia (and a few more!) not even accounted for.

I think, IMO, they have better players then ours. There aren't many/any of our players who would automatically displace any of theirs, IMO. Not even DDG. But a lot of their quality players will also need replacing soon.
 
Ish84045 said:
Off the top of my head, I can think of close to Bayern's best individuals/team (what formation they play is anyone's guess though :lol:):

Neuer, Lahm, Boateng, Martinez, Bernat, Alaba, Thiago, Schweinsteiger, Muller, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski.

That's 12 players. With Gotze, Rafinha, Alonso, Badstuber (quality but have suffered injuries), Dante, Benatia (and a few more!) not even accounted for.

I think, IMO, they have better players then ours. There aren't many/any of our players who would automatically displace any of theirs, IMO. Not even DDG. But a lot of their quality players will also need replacing soon.
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Thanks for the effort :) You did better than I would have!

So, based on that, they are currently much better.. Maybe in a season or 2 things will change with their players in decline and should they not make the right signing and we do, but currently speaking I'd agree that not one of our players would walk into their XI.. plenty of challengers, but that's it.

@Ramshock
 
This one doesn't really excite me. He's not what we need either.

(Oh, and get Schneiderlin done already Woody!)
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
Thanks for the effort :) You did better than I would have!

So, based on that, they are currently much better.. Maybe in a season or 2 things will change with their players in decline and should they not make the right signing and we do, but currently speaking I'd agree that not one of our players would walk into their XI.. plenty of challengers, but that's it.
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Yeah, it's an extremely difficult thing to judge because as we all know it's a team sport, first and foremost. So having the better players, doesn't necessarily mean the better team. Hence LvG's insistence on "balance". But yeah individually, I'd have Smalling partner Boateng at CB, and at a stretch, partner an in form Carrick with Schweinsteiger (even that's a stretch with Martinez as DM available) but that's about it - and I'm a huge Smalling fan, so I could be biased!
 
iBoss said:
Like who?
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KDB, Isco, Coutinho. Potentially even Pogba or Sterling, who are also just as versatile and can play through the centre like him - although Pogba would require a bit more of a free roaming role than a set #10.
 
They can keep him. Much better players in that position at our club.
 
DWelbz19 said:
KDB, Isco, Coutinho. Potentially even Pogba or Sterling, who are also just as versatile and can play through the centre like him - although Pogba would require a bit more of a free roaming role than a set #10.
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That's the mistake, Gotze isn't versatile he plays his best football approximately behind the striker and close to the box, in that position he is better than any other young player. Guardiola by using him deeper or wider put him in positions where he isn't comfortable.
 
ghagua said:
Yea they are different, Kevin De Bruyne can play left wing, right wing and as a #10. He is more versatile and creative than Gotze, so he would be my choice.
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Götze was our most versatile midfielder, who was actually moved around in the offensive midfield a lot to fit in other players (Kagawa, Kuba, etc.) and still delivered on an extremely consistent top Level (this was IMO the most remarkable thing about him, because such consistency is very rare for young players).

He lost this consistency with his move to Bayern, though. Part of it was probably that he did not enjoy the same freedom in Munich as he did under Klopp. He was our main engine of the offense (actually very similar to De Bruyne at Wolfsburg), in Munich there were other players, who pulled the strings.

The pressure as the ultimate German talent could also been too much for him, as he also did not show as much joy to play at Bayern.

My opinion of this whole topic has not changed much since the move was made public. The transfer came too soon for him and it would have been wiser to stay at Dortmund and mature further for at least one additional season, maybe even two. I did not expect him to struggle that much, though.
 
Ramshock said:
Yeah I dont agree with the bayern fanbois above they dont have MUCH better players
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Bayern fanbois? Geez, that's a bit harsh for what in essence amounts to a difference of opinion :lol:.

Anyway, I'd tend to agree with you as I don't recall saying they have "much better" players than us either, but better.
 
Varun said:
He's played a LOT. Where are the complains coming from?
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Man Utd = contract leverage

All the bloke needs to do is sneeze these days and we think they're a potential signing. Its gone past muppetasticness!
 
Ish84045 said:
Uhmmm....maybe it's because I am tired and a bit hungry (Ramadan :lol:) but.....I'm pretty sure you're either you're tripping balls, or I am?
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Ha ha. No, you wrote +-2 years :lol:. By the way, I'm fasting too so I guess we're both to be forgiven :)
 
Ish84045 said:
:lol: ;) I'm having one of those hungry days today man!!!!
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Well, my day in New York just started and I have more than 12 hours to go, plus I didn't wake up for suhoor. So, let's not talk about food now!
 
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