[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I understand what his strengths are. Its not like we are not getting ETH bespoke players.

If he's the mainstay of the team, the responsibility is on ETH to maximise Rashford's abilities through player development or a change of our approach.

ETH has to be pragmatic enough to know that goals win games. Not possession.

We have all seen this movie before.

One thing consistent in his time here, ETH's teams don't score enough goals to be competitive. Rashford is our most dangerous player, the highest scorer over the past few years. It's ETH's job how he can maximise not only Rashford's abilities but also as a team -- to score more feckin' goals.

This is LVG 2.0

The biggest issue so far into ETH's tenure for me is that he's been caught in between two styles of player and two styles of a team. If you want to be some lightning rod/transition team then absolutely build around Rashford and Bruno and find some more pure pace and physicality to bring into the squad around them and just accept that you're going to try and blitz teams in transition and win games from quality in the final 3rd. If you want to be a more modern pressing/possession based side with a true system in place then neither one of those two are probably the best fits as neither has ever really shown consistent ability to thrive when the space shrinks around them. Bruno can still create and Rashford can still score goals obviously, but the efficiency of either takes a tumble and their flaws (decision making and creativity for Rashford, lack of dribbling from Bruno) are much more harmful to the team.

I think this limbo that ETH has put us in is why we struggle to score goals. Half of our players are suited towards a team that wants to shrink space and press like maniacs while playing neat football around the box, and the other half isn't as keen on off the ball work and wants more space to take on defenders or make runs to be fed into and prefer a more off the cuff style of play. So you get stuck with these performances of the team playing well for a spell within a match but being unable to sustain anything consistent with many attacks faltering.

 

[acnumber9]

Video above defeats your whole post, I see plenty of opportunities being created for Rashford to then create plenty of opportunities for team mates, none of which are taken nor supplied with any great effort.

This whole "nobody creates for him" arguement needs to end, he gets fed the ball very often and often he loses it straight after by playing selfishly.

The video above is not his every touch. It ignores him creating one of our best chances in the game. He’s been given the ball thirty yards from goal with numerous defenders in front of him. If you upload a video with only the worst bits then that’s what you’ll get. The idea he creates nothing is complete and utter bollocks. Only Bruno creates more in our team. This place is a cesspit.

 

[ClassOf'99]

For some reason it edits out his ball over the top for Hojlund’s chance. Why United fans want to make him look worse baffles me.

But also shows him opting to not give Højlund a dream of a through ball within the first 6 seconds.

 

[acnumber9]

But also shows him opting to not give Højlund a dream of a through ball within the first 6 seconds.

And you could find another video of a player not putting him through. Was there a single example of somebody else creating a chance for him on Saturday? He’s assisted the only goal Hojlund has scored and the one he had disallowed. How many good chances has he had this season?

 

[ClassOf'99]

The video above is not his every touch. It ignores him creating one of our best chances in the game. He’s been given the ball thirty yards from goal with numerous defenders in front of him. If you upload a video with only the worst bits then that’s what you’ll get. The idea he creates nothing is complete and utter bollocks. Only Bruno creates more in our team. This place is a cesspit.

It doesn't need to, you could make endless videos of these plays from Rashford. The point is if he was playing in anyway effective these videos wouldn't be surfacing.

Everyone is noticing it, because it's a very common occurrence. And the bolded is a joke, he is in alot of 1v1s in that clip alone, he tries to take the defender on instead of a) crossing, b) playing around them or c) passing to teammates in open positions.

Nobody has told him to try to take on 2+ defenders everytime he gets the ball, he's doing that all on his own while you can clearly see teammates in open positions. Any of the other top teams and their best players utilise their teammates in these same positions that has been highlighted time and again.

People like yourself defending mediocrity makes this place a cesspit and will keep us fighting for top 4/6 every season, no player is above the club nor playing for the team.

 

[acnumber9]

It doesn't need to, you could make endless videos of these plays from Rashford. The point is if he was playing in anyway effective these videos wouldn't be surfacing.

Everyone is noticing it, because it's a very common occurrence. And the bolded is a joke, he is in alot of 1v1s in that clip alone, he tries to take the defender on instead of a) crossing, b) playing around them or c) passing to teammates in open positions.

Nobody has told him to try to take on 2+ defenders everytime he gets the ball, he's doing that all on his own while you can clearly see teammates in open positions. Any of the other top teams and their best players utilise their teammates in these same positions that has been highlighted time and again.

People like yourself defending mediocrity makes this place a cesspit and will keep us fighting for top 4/6 every season, no player is above the club nor playing for the team.

And deliberately creating videos to highlight every fault and ignore any positives only makes it worse. It’s feeding a narrative that people who don’t even watch the matches will repeat. It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. People go into the matches already angry and looking for every little thing they feel proves them right.

Blaming Rashford, Casemiro and Bruno when we have players like Lindelof playing for us are a joke. Cesspit.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I wonder if in some way much of what we criticise him for can be traced back to academy coaching.

We have a whole bunch of academy graduates who play heads down, direct football. The onus was on getting themselves a shot off or dribbling the ball forwards, it's a common trait in all of McT, Rashford, MG, Elanga, Chong, there's very little guile to any of their games, it's much more 'cut and thrust', physical and predictable. MG was the most talented of this group and his game really ended up being make a yard of space on the edge of the box and rely on excellent finishing, it was hard to stop but you could see what he was going to try, with the added issue for a defender that he could go both ways. In a broken game with end to end direct balls, they are all good but the PL has moved on from that. The outliers in these groups were Gomes and Pereira who both were deemed not good enough to make it here. Incidentally, Pereira now plays in Bruno's role at Fulham and basically matched Bruno's PL creative stats last season. (Bruno goals per 90, 0.22 & Assists per 90, 0.22 vs Pereira goals per 90, 0.22 & Assists per 90, 0.20) if I am reading FBref right.

There comes a point with Rashford where you have to accept what he is and either a) drop him or b) build the team around him which basically means he is our prime goal threat, he doesn't have to track back and a CM will need to drop into the LW channel a lot more to cover him (this happened last season with Eriksen but since the move to an advanced 8 it doesn't as much). We've just given him a whopping new deal so it's clear we have to sacrifice something to get him firing again.

Agree. I believe that's also one of the reasons why we see other sides trying to implement an adequate passing game and we find ourselves scratching our heads, wondering why we can't have some of that. It's not so much that we can't do it. We just don't want to do it. We may admire it as a final product, but we have no interest in producing players who can be good at it.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

And deliberately creating videos to highlight every fault and ignore any positives only makes it worse. It’s feeding a narrative that people who don’t even watch the matches will repeat. It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. People go into the matches already angry and looking for every little thing they feel proves them right.

Blaming Rashford, Casemiro and Bruno when we have players like Lindelof playing for us are a joke. Cesspit.

i mean lindelof is literally what the 3rd/4th/5th cb here? Rashford and bruno are supposedly the stars of the show, and both prob fancy themselves as "world class players". . Comparing them to depth players for the club is ridiculous. Of course the supposed world class players will get the brunt of the attention. They are the ones who should be leading this damn club. Personally i wouldve benched rashford after he moped around up front when EtH had the apparent audacity to start him there at the beginning of the season. Ive never seen worse attitude/effort/body language from someone leading the line for one of the biggest clubs in the world.

Then casemiro, who frankly is just here too late ala matic

 

[RVN1991]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, he is far more suited as a back up if your goal is to compete for the biggest trophies in football.

 

[sglowrider]

The biggest issue so far into ETH's tenure for me is that he's been caught in between two styles of player and two styles of a team. If you want to be some lightning rod/transition team then absolutely build around Rashford and Bruno and find some more pure pace and physicality to bring into the squad around them and just accept that you're going to try and blitz teams in transition and win games from quality in the final 3rd. If you want to be a more modern pressing/possession based side with a true system in place then neither one of those two are probably the best fits as neither has ever really shown consistent ability to thrive when the space shrinks around them. Bruno can still create and Rashford can still score goals obviously, but the efficiency of either takes a tumble and their flaws (decision making and creativity for Rashford, lack of dribbling from Bruno) are much more harmful to the team.

I think this limbo that ETH has put us in is why we struggle to score goals. Half of our players are suited towards a team that wants to shrink space and press like maniacs while playing neat football around the box, and the other half isn't as keen on off the ball work and wants more space to take on defenders or make runs to be fed into and prefer a more off the cuff style of play. So you get stuck with these performances of the team playing well for a spell within a match but being unable to sustain anything consistent with many attacks faltering.

I think you are right. Unfortunately this Frankenstein's monster he is trying to build maybe the death of him if he doesn't get it right soon

 

[FerociousCorgis]

The biggest issue so far into ETH's tenure for me is that he's been caught in between two styles of player and two styles of a team. If you want to be some lightning rod/transition team then absolutely build around Rashford and Bruno and find some more pure pace and physicality to bring into the squad around them and just accept that you're going to try and blitz teams in transition and win games from quality in the final 3rd. If you want to be a more modern pressing/possession based side with a true system in place then neither one of those two are probably the best fits as neither has ever really shown consistent ability to thrive when the space shrinks around them. Bruno can still create and Rashford can still score goals obviously, but the efficiency of either takes a tumble and their flaws (decision making and creativity for Rashford, lack of dribbling from Bruno) are much more harmful to the team.

I think this limbo that ETH has put us in is why we struggle to score goals. Half of our players are suited towards a team that wants to shrink space and press like maniacs while playing neat football around the box, and the other half isn't as keen on off the ball work and wants more space to take on defenders or make runs to be fed into and prefer a more off the cuff style of play. So you get stuck with these performances of the team playing well for a spell within a match but being unable to sustain anything consistent with many attacks faltering.

yep unfortunately as long as rashford/bruno are here, the possession based dominating team people want to see from us with total control of games just wont be there. Rashford is such a local hero type that it would be a massive call to sell him. No way that happens under the glazers.

 

[reelworld]

The most frustrating thing is that if he can get that balance of looking up and pass to his teammates once in a while he'll be twice the player.
The fact that he keeps ignoring his better positioned team mates in attacking position means 2 things:
- he does not realize that there are other players in better positions
- he thinks that he'd have a better chance to score than all the other players in better positions
Both does not look good on him
He needs to be benched because it's clear that one of the biggest issue in United attack is him. We nay lose his attacking output, but we could gain more because the team could create more chances for other players.
This reminds me the situation with Ruud, great goalscorer but the United did not score enough as a team. Fergie got rid of him once he found out how to make a more fluid attack and the team score more without him.
Rashford isn't even half the player Ruud was as a goalscorer. This should be a no brainer for ten Hag.

 

[marc1_007]

Sorry for the facebook link, can't find youtube. Bebe's average performance was better.

Where is all the so called double marking, he was isolated one on one with a defender at least five times, now lets look around the world and think of 5 players taking up those same position/situation that he was in, lets say Mitoma, Grealish, Martinelli, Rafael Leao and ViniciusJr, I wonder what the outcome would have been if it was any of those guys, I bet Rashford out earns all these players by a fair amount. This is why Ten Hag will get sacked when the new owners come in, if he persists with Rashford, you can't win a premier league or a Champions league with a player like this.

People can keep deluding themselves that he's our only threat , but when he doesn't play, we score the same amount of goals, and who knows maybe we can score more if we get used to playing without him but we will never find out unless he's dropped.

I remember once when people said things like if Rashford played for Guadiola, how great he could be, WRONG, because what were those famous words from Guadiola when he was talking about inter milan before the champions League Final, "Rashford can't keep the ball", now let that sink in. That is the best coach in the world and he actually came out and voiced an opinion like that, usually people keep opinions like that to themselves but he actually said it out loud, I bet other coaches think the same but maybe they might harbour the ambition to coach us one day so they will never say something like that. Hey at least we know that a player like Marcus Rashford can NEVER play for Guadiola and that tells me everything I need to know about him as a footballer

 

[Lyng]

Video above defeats your whole post, I see plenty of opportunities being created for Rashford to then create plenty of opportunities for team mates, none of which are taken nor supplied with any great effort.

This whole "nobody creates for him" arguement needs to end, he gets fed the ball very often and often he loses it straight after by playing selfishly.

It also proves the people wrong that claim Højlund doesnt make the correct runs. Rashford needs to look up more.

 

[Lentwood]

Sorry for the facebook link, can't find youtube. Bebe's average performance was better.

This has been his level his entire career, it's absolutely garbage.

This is why I'm starting to have no sympathy for ETH. I thought he'd be the first man to see through this ridiculous "Emperors New Clothes" charade, yet here we go again.

EDIT | what's damning about these highlights is they show conclusively what many of us see week in, week out. He has no plan. When he picks the ball up, he just gets his head down and runs blindly into a pack of players. He doesn't know what is objective is. Is he going to chop back and cross the ball with his left foot? Is he going to shift the ball onto his right and shoot? Is he going to try to set the ball back for a teammate to shoot from the edge of the box? He doesn't know, THATS the key point. He just sticks his head down and charges in a direct line towards the goal.

He doesn't know what he's going to do/trying to do, how on Earth can his teammates know? Every attack breaks down around him for this reason.

 

[TMDaines]

Where is all the so called double marking, he was isolated one on one with a defender at least five times, now lets look around the world and think of 5 players taking up those same position/situation that he was in, lets say Mitoma, Grealish, Martinelli, Rafael Leao and ViniciusJr, I wonder what the outcome would have been if it was any of those guys,

If it is so easy for those guys and Rashford is so terrible in comparison, why aren’t all of those players smoking him in terms of non-pen goals over the longer term? What’s your narrative for what happened last season and historically before that?

 

[Born2Lose]

This has been his level his entire career, it's absolutely garbage.

This is why I'm starting to have no sympathy for ETH. I thought he'd be the first man to see through this ridiculous "Emperors New Clothes" charade, yet here we go again.

EDIT | what's damning about these highlights is they show conclusively what many of us see week in, week out. He has no plan. When he picks the ball up, he just gets his head down and runs blindly into a pack of players. He doesn't know what is objective is. Is he going to chop back and cross the ball with his left foot? Is he going to shift the ball onto his right and shoot? Is he going to try to set the ball back for a teammate to shoot from the edge of the box? He doesn't know, THATS the key point. He just sticks his head down and charges in a direct line towards the goal.

He doesn't know what he's going to do/trying to do, how on Earth can his teammates know? Every attack breaks down around him for this reason.

I'm in the same boat, the Antony signing starts making a lot more sense as just being a poor signing now too in consideration that EtH is unable to see or willingly blind to Rashford's many shortcomings.

I've accepted EtH but one of the main reasons I'd have preferred Poch is I know he's not afraid to make big calls about players who aren't pulling their weight.

 

[Em765]

This has been his level his entire career, it's absolutely garbage.

This is why I'm starting to have no sympathy for ETH. I thought he'd be the first man to see through this ridiculous "Emperors New Clothes" charade, yet here we go again.

EDIT | what's damning about these highlights is they show conclusively what many of us see week in, week out. He has no plan. When he picks the ball up, he just gets his head down and runs blindly into a pack of players. He doesn't know what is objective is. Is he going to chop back and cross the ball with his left foot? Is he going to shift the ball onto his right and shoot? Is he going to try to set the ball back for a teammate to shoot from the edge of the box? He doesn't know, THATS the key point. He just sticks his head down and charges in a direct line towards the goal.

He doesn't know what he's going to do/trying to do, how on Earth can his teammates know? Every attack breaks down around him for this reason.

Well in all fairness Rashford was playing out of his mind since ETH took over.
Its only the last few games that hes been underwhelming.
There was no need for ETH to drop him until now.
I dont think its fair to say that ETH should have dropped him so far, its only now that things are starting to get concering but Rashford of last year, no one would have dropped him, he was amazing.
Also this season is still young, based on Rashfords play last year he deserved some leeway at least up to this point.
Not a fair criticism for ETH.

 

[the_cliff]

And deliberately creating videos to highlight every fault and ignore any positives only makes it worse. It’s feeding a narrative that people who don’t even watch the matches will repeat. It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. People go into the matches already angry and looking for every little thing they feel proves them right.

Blaming Rashford, Casemiro and Bruno when we have players like Lindelof playing for us are a joke. Cesspit.

I mean we've had a problem scoring for a while now and Lindelof is in no way involved in that. Against Palace we defended well barring a freak goal from a set piece and had around 80% possession. If we're depending on a cb in that situation to score us a goal then we're well and truly fecked.

I don't blame Casemiro but I do think the blame for the Palace result lies solely on Rashford and Bruno who are our main attackers, having 80% possession and the ball constantly in the attacking third but us unable to break them down is the attackers fault. The blame for the Palace defeat lies on our front 3 and Bruno. The reason why Bruno and Rashford receive more criticism than say Pellistri and Hojlund is quite simple, they're both supposed to be our main attackers, leaders and in their prime, while Pellistri and Hojlund haven't gotten into double figures in apps yet.

 

[statpadder]

And deliberately creating videos to highlight every fault and ignore any positives only makes it worse. It’s feeding a narrative that people who don’t even watch the matches will repeat. It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. People go into the matches already angry and looking for every little thing they feel proves them right.

Blaming Rashford, Casemiro and Bruno when we have players like Lindelof playing for us are a joke. Cesspit.

Thank feck for all the people creating videos of his general play now otherwise we’d have die hard Rashford fans coming in here time and time again reminding us how he has x number of shots, y number of take ons.

The reason these videos didn’t surface before was because we thought our CFs just were lazy. Now we have a new striker and people are still wondering why is he starved of service.

Well there you go, we have a 300k per week winger who is just not interested in passing to team mates. There is a reason we will always score less goals and that reason is our lack of team work/passing patterns.

It doesn’t matter how incessant fanbois want to paint this as… this right here is a fact! Unless Rashford learns the first thing taught in football i.e passing the fecking ball, we will continue to languish in mediocrity.

Yes, because everything goes through him and no amount of ridiculous cherry picked stats can help improve us as a team.

 

[stw2022]

The gap between the player people think Rashford is based on the amount invested in hoping he'd become that player vs the player he actually is, is always a huge discrepancy.

He's a very basic player with speed being his only true, consistent attribute which is undermined by his frankly disgraceful work rate

 

[RedUnited86]

His game hasn't developed or matured ever since he made his debut in 2015 - in fact his decision making, selfishness and work-rate has gotten far worse. Quite the remarkable feat.

 

[Mike Smalling]

His game hasn't developed or matured ever since he made his debut in 2015 - in fact his decision making, selfishness and work-rate has gotten far worse. Quite the remarkable feat.

Harsh. He's gone from getting between 11-13 goals three seasons in a row, to getting 30 goals last season. If nothing else, his finishing and heading has improved a lot.

That being said, he is nowhere near where he should be, given his technical and physical attributes. He hasn't matured his decision making, his work rate is not good enough, and he is suffering under being one of the only G/A providers in the side, so he often tries too much (a bit like Bruno). He's also not really that well suited for a possession based side, because his pace doesn't really get to shine. It's part of the reason why he often gets a goal against the big sides - there is simply a lot more room to exploit.

 

[Winrar]

I've talked about scanning in this thread but curious to see what his scan rate actually is.

 

[the_cliff]

Harsh. He's gone from getting between 11-13 goals three seasons in a row, to getting 30 goals last season. If nothing else, his finishing and heading has improved a lot.

That being said, he is nowhere near where he should be, given his technical and physical attributes. He hasn't matured his decision making, his work rate is not good enough, and he is suffering under being one of the only G/A providers in the side, so he often tries too much (a bit like Bruno). He's also not really that well suited for a possession based side, because his pace doesn't really get to shine. It's part of the reason why he often gets a goal against the big sides - there is simply a lot more room to exploit.

This is the thing I'm worried about. They the 30 goal season was an outlier and the rest were the rule.

 

[stw2022]

As others have pointed out, even in his best season his performance was very heavily dependent on a very good run of form from late Dec to mid February. Outside of this last season for the months of August, September, October November, March, April and May were at best very undistinguished in terms of form or performance.

How much more do we need to see from this guy before we can make an assessment that he isn't close to top quality.

 

[Mike Smalling]

This is the thing I'm worried about. They the 30 goal season was an outlier and the rest were the rule.

He also had another two +20 goal seasons, although one of them was heavily reliant on penalties.

But I'd say 20 goals a season from that inside forward position is probably around his level, when the team is playing decently well. That would be perfectly fine as well, if his general play and work rate was better, and if we had a striker and a right winger to chip in with similar goals.

 

[elmo]

Well in all fairness Rashford was playing out of his mind since ETH took over.
Its only the last few games that hes been underwhelming.
There was no need for ETH to drop him until now.
I dont think its fair to say that ETH should have dropped him so far, its only now that things are starting to get concering but Rashford of last year, no one would have dropped him, he was amazing.
Also this season is still young, based on Rashfords play last year he deserved some leeway at least up to this point.
Not a fair criticism for ETH.

He’s been ass since March. That’s a few months, not just a few games like what you’re claiming.

And no, he wasn’t playing out of his mind, he was playing his usual style which meant that it looked good on paper because he was scoring and assisting, but the actual performance was mediocre at best with poor work rate.

 

[Ubik]

For some reason it edits out his ball over the top for Hojlund’s chance. Why United fans want to make him look worse baffles me.

Yeah I noticed that earlier, one of the few times we've been able to make use of Hojlund's pace. He was still terrible in the game (this weekend's, that is), but I was watching the highlights for the Palace game last year and it was just noticeable how much sharper his decision making was, and having Shaw on his side clearly helped.

 

[Pughnichi]

Gonna be so annoyed if he starts tonight. Needs to be on the bench.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Would be a useful impact sub for a club challenging for top honours but fact we rely on him to carry our attack sums up the mess this club is in.

 

[Moomalade74]

I wrote this in July 21st 2021:

Rashford's stats speak for themselves, though they are not the full picture. RVN had amazing stats but in 2006-7 Fergie understood the future of team revolved around a fluid front three of Ronaldo, Rooney and Saha (prompting that famous Guardian quote - "where are the goals going to come from?")
RVN didn't start the League Cup final and that was the end of it for him here.
The issue for me is that Rashford has shown himself to be able to hit tremendous heights, worthy of potential world class status, but then regularly shows a real selfish streak when off form, as if he's trying to force things to happen. This occurs at the detriment to the attacking dynamic of the team as a whole and is maddening to watch.
If another configuration emerges that is fluid and dynamic without him, unless his form improves his goal contributions will be redistributed elsewhere and he'll find himself on the bench.

Nothing has changed in the last two years with this player, my fingers are crossed PSG see him as an Mbappe replacement next summer.

 

[RedUnited86]

Rashford FC is undroppable. Looking forward to another stinker of a performance tonight.

 

[lex talionis]

It will be interesting to see whether ETH plays the best available players based on form or reputation.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

I’d appreciate him being on the bench. It’s been a case of whenever he’s out of form he can keep playing till he gets back into some pretty much his whole United career.

This idea Ten Hag has of training well and showing it all the time has to be applicable on the pitch too.

 

[-Supreme-]

Pretty confident that his performance against Palace was the last straw for him where he got substituted for the first time when we were still chasing the game, and it also happened when he got rested in mid-week.

Garnacho will take his place tonight

 

[Swiss_Red89]

I think he will start on the right. If he has another stinker he will get dropped for the weekend.

I for one would bring him on as a sub today. Would be the best szenario for himself imo.

 

[KikiDaKats]

As others have pointed out, even in his best season his performance was very heavily dependent on a very good run of form from late Dec to mid February. Outside of this last season for the months of August, September, October November, March, April and May were at best very undistinguished in terms of form or performance.

How much more do we need to see from this guy before we can make an assessment that he isn't close to top quality.

Depends on what confirmation you looking for? I remember watching Beckham to confirm he wasn’t Kanchelskis, end up not really enjoying his best years with us. By the time I got there, the fecker was on his way out.

 

[McGrathsipan]

he'll play
he'll be the same as he always is
he'll play the weekend too

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Someone who can't dribble is useless against a low block / back 10. Rashford can't dribble.