[zaafi]

OK, but you agree he's better than our striker and RWs? Why not direct your anger towards those positions which are woefully under par? Why hate on our only top level attacker?

Of course I'd prefer an Mbappe or Vinicius, but if you can't see Rashford is a very good attacker then you're blinded by your agenda.

I don't think you understand the point everyone are trying to make here. We are easily cut through in the final third and teams can easily pass out of the press because there is a single attacker that doesn't press. Why do you think teams like City, Brighton and Liverpool and Arsenal win the ball back quickly? For the system Ten Hag is trying to implement, you simply can't have players that don't press. How is Bruno or Antony able to contribute offensively while still busting a gut to help out?

There were several occasions on Saturday, and in previous games, where he has had the opportunity to make a cutback pass, through ball or a cross to a player to create a chance, but he doesn't make it. He lacks footballing intelligence.
He used to be a great team player when he broke through, who passed the ball, linked up with other players and worked hard. He doesn't any more. He is our best attacker, but that does not mean he should try to create for himself, avoid his team mates and not work together with them as a team. You can't be a successful football team like that, where you have individual players playing for themselves. Look how much more efficient Vinicius Junior became when he stopped being greedy and learned to play with his team mates. He became one of the best in the world. If he played like this in Real Madrid, Bayern or City, he'd be benched instantly and that is why they are top teams, and we're not. We've settled with Rashford who would be a bench player in their teams.

I don't hate Rashford, I think he's an amazing human being. I also think that is why some refuse to criticise him.

 

[Lyng]

Absolute rubbish. If we had Kane and Saka as our other forwards then he'd absolutely feast on premier league defences. The issue is we rely on him for 100% of our attacking threat, so it magnifies all his flaws, and people scream and shout if he doesn't produce every game.

The problem is striker and right wing. We are woeful there.

Edit: even yesterday when he was a little too selfish at times, he almost produced 2 assists for Hojlund. There's real potential in that link-up. Just hope Hojlund gets up to speed quickly.

How does having Kane help when Rashford refuses to do the passes? He is way to head down. I dont blame him, its the way he has been forced to play for so many seasons now.
But we have Højlund now, and Reguilon actually ran the overlap, so Rashford needs to look up and start doing better with his decisions.
Rashford should absolutely be our main right wing player, but that doesnt mean he should be absolved of legitimate criticism. All we want is for him to adapt his play so we become better overall.

 

[Doracle]

I don't think you understand the point everyone are trying to make here. We are easily cut through in the final third and teams can easily pass out of the press because there is a single attacker that doesn't press. Why do you think teams like City, Brighton and Liverpool and Arsenal win the ball back quickly? For the system Ten Hag is trying to implement, you simply can't have players that don't press. How is Bruno or Antony able to contribute offensively while still busting a gut to help out?

There were several occasions on Saturday, and in previous games, where he has had the opportunity to make a cutback pass, through ball or a cross to a player to create a chance, but he doesn't make it. He lacks footballing intelligence.
He used to be a great team player when he broke through, who passed the ball, linked up with other players and worked hard. He doesn't any more. He is our best attacker, but that does not mean he should try to create for himself, avoid his team mates and not work together with them as a team. You can't be a successful football team like that, where you have individual players playing for themselves. Look how much more efficient Vinicius Junior became when he stopped being greedy and learned to play with his team mates. He became one of the best in the world. If he played like this in Real Madrid, Bayern or City, he'd be benched instantly and that is why they are top teams, and we're not. We've settled with Rashford who would be a bench player in their teams.

I don't hate Rashford, I think he's an amazing human being. I also think that is why some refuse to criticise him.

Rashford would walk into the City team - they play Grealish in his position for goodness sake. I do agree Pep would have him pressing much more effectively though.

 

[zaafi]

Rashford would walk into the City team - they play Grealish in his position for goodness sake. I do agree Pep would have him pressing much more effectively though.

If he played for City the way he plays for us, there is not a microscopic chance he would even be on the field. He'd have to change his style drastically.

 

[Drizzle]

He is our best attacker, but that does not mean he should try to create for himself, avoid his team mates and not work together with them as a team. You can't be a successful football team like that, where you have individual players playing for themselves.

I agree with this. He needs to link better, and hopefully if we can spread the attacking load and ETH works with him he will do this.

How does having Kane help when Rashford refuses to do the passes? He is way to head down. I dont blame him, its the way he has been forced to play for so many seasons now.

If he had a world class striker to work with, then believe me he'd be looking up. He's had Weghorst, Martial and a washed Ronaldo to work with, I can't blame him if he's deciding to shoulder the burden himself. But that needs to evolve now.

 

[Cassidy]

Rashford and his mate Bruno being our best options is the root of the problem.

Its actually not, it may be a problem, but its not the root.
Take a look at the rest of the players in the team and see what they have to offer.

 

[Cassidy]

If he played for City the way he plays for us, there is not a microscopic chance he would even be on the field. He'd have to change his style drastically.

 

[Cassidy]

Where is that taken from?

Also, how do you even begin to measure these sprints? I'm willing to bet that Mbappé has more sprints than Rashford, but he is still a lazy feck. Rashford nullifies our press and effectively makes it useless to press their defenders.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Rashford would walk into the City team - they play Grealish in his position for goodness sake. I do agree Pep would have him pressing much more effectively though.

This City side with Haaland and his minimal touches per game? Absolutely no chance. Maybe a lot of United fans think that an attacker's only job is to run in-behind, but Pep actually knows how to build a good side. Laugh as much as you want, but Graelish's ability to either receive or carry the ball into the left half-space and play link-up football in tight spaces is invaluable to this City side. The shape of their attacking players in their offensive 325 is very reminiscent of the WM formation. There are always two players in the half-spaces, Haaland is looking for the pocket of space in the box, and there's also an outlet in the wide areas.

When they were playing with a false 9, it would have made much more sense. Still, he would have to leave all his bad habits behind. You can argue that a single clip doesn't show the whole picture (i can agree with that), but his reaction in Brighton's first goal would have made Pep incandescent. Even Haaland has suffered a few on pitch dressing downs. And let's not forget Aguero. And one of the first things that would'be trained out of him is his tendency to slow down everything to a halt when he receives the ball out wide with no room to take on someone. Graelish had a similar problem, but from a (wide) midfielder's standpoint. He was used to getting on the ball and taking his time while everybody else was running frantically to open up spaces for him. He's looking much better now. The main reason is that Pep abhors this type of football. At United, we seem to fully embrace it. So, there's that.

Oh, Graelish also tracks back runners like a rabid dog nowadays, we should mention that.

 

[Hughes35]

We'll never be a great team while he's a starter. Far too many flaws and far too selfish.

Posts like this always make me laugh. So you don't think out last CL winning team would be great with Rashford in it?

-----------------------------------------------Van Der Sar-----------------------------------
Brown-----------------------Ferdinand----------------Vidic---------------------Evra
--------------------------------------Scholes----------Carrick----------------------------
Ronaldo------------------------------------Rooney-----------------------------Rashford
-------------------------------------------------Tevez--------------------------------------

Whilst I agree Rashford has flaws. Statements like "He is the problem" or "We will never be a great team with him as starter" are nonsense.

The team as a whole is not up to scratch so every weakness a player has is amplified.

Take the team above, if you were just taking weaknesses you could say VDS wasn't top top drawer with his feet, Brown wasn't great going forwards / his final ball wasn't great, Evra wasn't great at crossing, Ronaldo could be selfish and sometimes didn't track back, Scholes / Carrick lacked pace, Tevez wasn't a prolific goal scorer and Rooney could start seasons slowly.

Every player has weaknesses but if you have 10 great players around you and they are coached properly, your weaknesses get masked and your strengths get highlighted.

 

[Dec9003]

Rashford is flawed, and he doesn’t press as aggressively as someone like Bruno, but he’s a net positive to our play, he’s a very good footballer. For all we know, Ten Hag is telling him not to track back so we have an option when we win the ball, you can’t be the best transition team in the world without an option to transition to. I saw that Mark Goldbridge was giving Rashford loads of stick, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some overlap between people that take him seriously and people that overly slate Rashford.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Its actually not, it may be a problem, but its not the root.
Take a look at the rest of the players in the team and see what they have to offer.

The whole thing revolves around Bruno and Rashford. They play key positions and they always play. Maybe the actual problem us the expectations around United being able to challenge for top honours with players like them too that are not actually what they are made out to be like. They are not totally crap but their performance levels are wildly inconsistent and poor alot of the time.
Top players are not like that. Both of them are not delivering what they need to consistently

 

[Name Changed]

The fact is that we would have been in the game a lot longer if Rashford wasn't so selfish. He comes across as intelligent. I can't understand why he often refuses to give the ball to other players in much better positions. This isn't a new thing. He has all the ability in the world. He should not be exempt from criticism.

 

[clarkydaz]

If he had a world class striker to work with, then believe me he'd be looking up. He's had Weghorst, Martial and a washed Ronaldo to work with, I can't blame him if he's deciding to shoulder the burden himself. But that needs to evolve now.

you are talking utter hogwash here. The quality of teammate decides whether he passes to them? The best link up play he has ever had here is with Martial

 

[RedStarUnited]

I genuinely dont think even 37 year old Ronaldo was this bad off the ball.

 

[Cassidy]

The whole thing revolves around Bruno and Rashford. They play key positions and they always play. Maybe the actual problem us the expectations around United being able to challenge for top honours with players like them too that are not actually what they are made out to be like. They are not totally crap but their performance levels are wildly inconsistent and poor alot of the time.
Top players are not like that. Both of them are not delivering what they need to consistently

And what about the rest of the team?
The whole thing revolves around them because they are 2 of the only players who take responsibility to create/score goals when others are happy to pass responsibility to others.
Its not all others though, Casemiro and Eriksen are 2 players who also don't pass the buck and Antony to an extent.

This reminds me of when Pogba was heavily criticised for not being able to carry a poor United side to top honors.

No other "top team" relies solely on 2 players for goals and creativity. We create more or less nothing when these 2 players don't get the ball.

Lets face facts this is not a squad that can challenge the likes of City Arsenal and Liverpool for the league, it is lacking in many areas but specifically in attack it is lacking in creative players and players who score goals.
The 2 players we do have who consistently create or score are left to carry the burden of the whole team, and if they have an off day we stink.

Wildly inconsistent possibly they may be, I'm willing to challenge the fact that other players in other top sides are as inconsistent but when they have a bad day some one else is able to step up.

Its also a fact that opposition teams understand that our attacking players bar Rashford and Bruno are not a threat, so especially in the games against the top sides, they can easily target and shutdown someone like Bruno in midfield.

 

[Gordon Godot]

And what about the rest of the team?
The whole thing revolves around them because they are 2 of the only players who take responsibility to create goals when others are happy to pass responsibility to others.
Its not all others though, Casemiro and Eriksen are 2 players who also don't pass the buck and Antony to an extent.

This reminds me of when Pogba was heavily criticised for not being able to carry a poor United side to top honors.

No other "top team" relies solely on 2 players for goals and creativity. We create more or less nothing when these 2 players don't get the ball.

Lets face facts this is not a squad that can challenge the likes of City Arsenal and Liverpool for the league, it is lacking in many areas but specifically in attack it is lacking in creative players and players who score goals.
The 2 players we do have who consistently create or score are left to carry the burden of the whole team, and if they have an off day we stink.

Wildly inconsistent possibly they may be, I'm willing to challenge the fact that other players in other top sides are as inconsistent but when they have a bad day some one else is able to step up.

The question is whether these 2 players are suited to a more possession based approach that we need for success. THe number of times we try and progress via Bruno and he tumbles to the ground like he was stabbed at the slightest contact. He is simply not suited to receive the ball on teh half turn in midfield. I compare him to a player like Maddison who can come deep, or receive under pressure, or create and score. Bruno's strength is only the latter. Rashford also need to be coached on decision making, at the moment its poor. We can afford these 2 players if the rest of the team is solid, but it isnt.

 

[Cassidy]

The question is whether these 2 players are suited to a more possession based approach that we need for success. THe number of times we try and progress via Bruno and he tumbles to the ground like he was stabbed at the slightest contact. He is simply not suited to receive the ball on teh half turn in midfield. I compare him to a player like Maddison who can come deep, or receive under pressure, or create and score. Bruno's strength is only the latter. Rashford also need to be coached on decision making, at the moment its poor. We can afford these 2 players if the rest of the team is solid, but it isnt.

Right lets now move the goal posts a bit. Because by the way we do not need to play like City to win the league, however let us say for a second we wanted to play possession based football.

Do you know that Bruno does not have to be the midfielder who progresses the ball through the middle of the pitch? Do you realise we have other outfield players who could be given that responsibility?
Do you realise that Bruno is mainly a final phase player and we have other midfielders who are supposed to be taking responsibility for ball progression?
Do you realise that Brighton don't actually progress the ball via their midfielders and the goal keeper and defenders usually go straight to the forwards?
So let me ask you a question, which United midfielder can take the ball on the half turn in midfield consistently?

And if like me you come to the conclusion that the answer is none of them, bar maybe a kid named Mainoo and Amrabat who we just signed, why are you targeting Bruno solely as the root cause of the problem?

Why are you not talking about Eriksen, Mount, and Casemiro? I wonder out of all our midfielders which one of them consistently progresses the ball for us?

 

[zaafi]

What's funny about that? Maybe you want to elaborate instead of replying to every post with an eyeroll emoji?

 

[Kaos]

I wish Ten Hag is just as ruthless with Rashford on the pitch as he is off it. Yes it sets a necessary precedence by dropping him for being late, but so would hooking him off the pitch for bundling the 15th chance we have because Rashford decides he'd rather twat it at the keeper instead of looking for a player, or refusing to press or track his man off the ball. As good as Rashford was last season, he's not prime Ronaldo where he's that good his off the ball apathy is excused.

 

[Borys]

Absolute rubbish. If we had Kane and Saka as our other forwards then he'd absolutely feast on premier league defences. The issue is we rely on him for 100% of our attacking threat, so it magnifies all his flaws, and people scream and shout if he doesn't produce every game.

The problem is striker and right wing. We are woeful there.

Edit: even yesterday when he was a little too selfish at times, he almost produced 2 assists for Hojlund. There's real potential in that link-up. Just hope Hojlund gets up to speed quickly.

All you said here is true, but it's a Catch 22. We rely on him 100% because he runs with the ball to take a shot (literally looks like he doesn't even look up and passes only if he runs out of options to shoot). So he is a great player on the break, but he is also part of the reason we don't create anything for #9.

By the way this happens also for Antony, both him and Rashford would rather shoot from very low-quality position than pass to someone who is moving to better position. This is very weird way to play football, because it might be an effect of having no trust in team mates or being afraid of losing the ball in dangerous way. Seems like we just want to get a shot away as soon as possible and avoid any turnovers. Makes sense, but the team will never settle properly as it's all so nervous and hectic.

 

[Drizzle]

I genuinely dont think even 37 year old Ronaldo was this bad off the ball.

No but he was nowhere near as good on the ball.

 

[Drizzle]

you are talking utter hogwash here. The quality of teammate decides whether he passes to them? The best link up play he has ever had here is with Martial

You've just proved my point. When Martial was half decent, prior to multiple injuries that have slowed him down massively, Rashford did link well with him.

So yes, we know he can link well with good strikers. And still be a goal threat.

Beggars belief that we had Weghorst and Co last year, Rashford scores 30 and assists 10, but apparently he's the problem.

 

[Slevs]

No but he was nowhere near as good on the ball.

Who wasn't as good as whom on the ball?

 

[McGrathsipan]

And what about the rest of the team?
The whole thing revolves around them because they are 2 of the only players who take responsibility to create/score goals when others are happy to pass responsibility to others.
Its not all others though, Casemiro and Eriksen are 2 players who also don't pass the buck and Antony to an extent.

This reminds me of when Pogba was heavily criticised for not being able to carry a poor United side to top honors.

No other "top team" relies solely on 2 players for goals and creativity. We create more or less nothing when these 2 players don't get the ball.

Lets face facts this is not a squad that can challenge the likes of City Arsenal and Liverpool for the league, it is lacking in many areas but specifically in attack it is lacking in creative players and players who score goals.
The 2 players we do have who consistently create or score are left to carry the burden of the whole team, and if they have an off day we stink.

Wildly inconsistent possibly they may be, I'm willing to challenge the fact that other players in other top sides are as inconsistent but when they have a bad day some one else is able to step up.

Its also a fact that opposition teams understand that our attacking players bar Rashford and Bruno are not a threat, so especially in the games against the top sides, they can easily target and shutdown someone like Bruno in midfield.

Thats the nail on the head sadly.

 

[stw2022]

You can always tell when even those defending him don't think he played well when this thread becomes "what about other players"

 

[-Supreme-]

We’re blaming ETH coaching for Rashford’s laziness and lack of pressing, and his selfishness and poor decision making are down to his team mates not being good enough. Seriously?

Surprised I haven’t yet seen his back injuries excuse yet, but I’m sure that will come when he lays down or holds his back in the next few games.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Posts like this always make me laugh. So you don't think out last CL winning team would be great with Rashford in it?

-----------------------------------------------Van Der Sar-----------------------------------
Brown-----------------------Ferdinand----------------Vidic---------------------Evra
--------------------------------------Scholes----------Carrick----------------------------
Ronaldo------------------------------------Rooney-----------------------------Rashford
-------------------------------------------------Tevez--------------------------------------

Whilst I agree Rashford has flaws. Statements like "He is the problem" or "We will never be a great team with him as starter" are nonsense.

The team as a whole is not up to scratch so every weakness a player has is amplified.

Take the team above, if you were just taking weaknesses you could say VDS wasn't top top drawer with his feet, Brown wasn't great going forwards / his final ball wasn't great, Evra wasn't great at crossing, Ronaldo could be selfish and sometimes didn't track back, Scholes / Carrick lacked pace, Tevez wasn't a prolific goal scorer and Rooney could start seasons slowly.

Every player has weaknesses but if you have 10 great players around you and they are coached properly, your weaknesses get masked and your strengths get highlighted.

He wouldn't get away being as selfish as he is with Ronaldo in the team. Ronaldo would remind him who is boss.
He wouldn't get away being as lazy as he is with Rooney and Tevez in the team and Evra behind him. They would not let him jog around, I dont see a single person shouting at Rashford on the pitch.

 

[clarkydaz]

We’re blaming ETH coaching for Rashford’s laziness and lack of pressing, and his selfishness and poor decision making are down to his team mates not being good enough. Seriously?

Surprised I haven’t yet seen his back injuries excuse yet, but I’m sure that will come when he lays down or holds his back in the next few games.

He's taking one for the teams failures, by doing it all himself. Harry Maguire logic right there

 

[Drizzle]

You can always tell when even those defending him don't think he played well when this thread becomes "what about other players"

No he played well. Almost got 2 assists, hit the post, was a constant threat for a large portion of the game. What did anyone else do?

 

[Hughes35]

He wouldn't get away being as selfish as he is with Ronaldo in the team. Ronaldo would remind him who is boss.
He wouldn't get away being as lazy as he is with Rooney and Tevez in the team and Evra behind him. They would not let him jog around, I dont see a single person shouting at Rashford on the pitch.

Exactly, so we agree then.

The point of my post was that the overall team is not good enough so players weaknesses are highlighted and with better players around them, some of our players would improve.

 

[Redstain]

How does having Kane help when Rashford refuses to do the passes? He is way to head down. I dont blame him, its the way he has been forced to play for so many seasons now.
But we have Højlund now, and Reguilon actually ran the overlap, so Rashford needs to look up and start doing better with his decisions.
Rashford should absolutely be our main right wing player, but that doesnt mean he should be absolved of legitimate criticism. All we want is for him to adapt his play so we become better overall.

Hojlund is not Kane. The point the other poster made is a very good outlook, Rashford would thrive where he's not the main output in expectation for the attack. I don't think fans comprehend United have one of the worst set of attacking players in the league and in the clubs recent history. I was absolutely bemused that the focus for the summer transfer window was the midfield and goalkeeper (circumstantially). Hojlund is not enough, the recruitment team should have targeted at least three attacking players even giving consideration for an attacking fullback.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Exactly, so we agree then.

The point of my post was that the overall team is not good enough so players weaknesses are highlighted and with better players around them, some of our players would improve.

I think the conundrum is, he is expected to be one of the 'better ones' that our other dross can look up to and improve.

 

[Frank White]

You can always tell when even those defending him don't think he played well when this thread becomes "what about other players"

This is hilarious coming from you considering you blamed Rashford for Antony being shit.

 

[Cassidy]

You can always tell when even those defending him don't think he played well when this thread becomes "what about other players"

You can always tell when those blaming him for the whole attacks problems have zero clue about football when they can't see none of the other attackers provide any form of threat

 

[Hughes35]

Oh, never going to happen. He's clearly a player that needs dragging, not a player to drag.

We only look at him like that because he's one of our only players that has had any sort of good form in the last few years. In reality he is not that player. He's more Nani than Roy Keane in terms of personality.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

The thread is full of clips and stills of how many chances Rashford could have created, defended better etc but yeah we dont know anything about football and the other attackers are dogshit for not wrestling the ball out of Rashford's feet all by themselves.

 

[Big Ray]

Thats the nail on the head sadly.

Don’t agree. When Salah has a bad day, the one thing you get from him is effort. He’s selfish at times but his decision making is on another level and he is a team player off the ball. Rashford has been recorded as worse off the ball than even Sancho. I’d bet there are stats to back that up. Was embarrassing to watch his lack of effort on Saturday. You’re playing for Man United ffs, the least the shirt deserves is 100% effort and courage to go into every tackle. He doesn’t do either of those things.

 

[Cassidy]

The thread is full of clips and stills of how many chances Rashford could have created, defended better etc but yeah we dont know anything about football and the other attackers are dogshit for not wrestling the ball out of Rashford's feet all by themselves.

You might want to watch the clips of the other attackers when they got the ball and see what they did with it. Did they create any chances?
You might want to check which of our players actually had the ball the most in the game then analyse what they did with it, you might actually realise Rashford did not have the ball the most, yet was more dangerous than anyone else in the time he had it

You might then want to check running intensity stats and see who actually expends the most energy in the team in terms of running and sprints, you might find Rashford is extremely high on the list, you mind find if you actually was objective your assumptions based on isolated clips would be rendered obsolete

 

[ayushreddevil9]

You might want to watch the clips of the other attackers when they got the ball and see what they did with it. Did they create any chances?
You might want to check which of our players actually had the ball the most in the game then analyse what they did with it, you might actually realise Rashford did not have the ball the most, yet was more dangerous than anyone else in the time he had it

Umm no, just because he was the only outlet and ran with the ball in straight lines smashing his shots into opposing defenders doesn't make him more dangerous than anyone else. There was a point where I said "Why do they always pass to Rashford? He kills all of our attacks."

If you wanna clutch at straws and point the finger at Hojlund who had like 1 opportunity compared to Rashford's 9(not literally 9), you're most welcome to do it.