Yeah, it's nonsense. They all take turns to drop deeper cause it's no ones natural game in that front 3. Something we'll get once we sign Sancho which will take out attack to a whole different level.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 44
- Goals
- 22
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
I’ve been one of Rashford’s biggest critics but I think it’s fair to offer some balance.
First off, there where a few reasons I was SO harsh about Rashford
1) The media constantly banged on about Jose ruining a “world class talent” by playing him out wide. Bollocks. Rashford is an AWFUL central striker. Hates playing with his back to goal and it detracts from all the major positives about his game imo.
2) I felt like the hype around Rashford was being generated from within the club to try and kid supporters during a period when the club underachieved on the pitch. I felt like they where trying to perpetrate this myth that everything would be OK in a few years because Rashford was the next Ronaldo or Messi. Which again I feel is way off the mark.
3) Utd fans had become desperate to cling onto something and I felt that led to Rashford being talked up beyond his abilities
Now, all that being said, I feel that now we’re on an upward trajectory, we have a settled manager who understands Rashford’s best position and the fan/media hype around him has largely disappeared, we can be honest and level-headed about his actual talent.
The first thing to say is Rashford is not world class and never will be. That is not to say he isn’t capable of world-class moments. It’s just that world-class players do it relentlessly to the point it becomes almost inevitable and boring. Rashford blows hot and cold. Some games he looks like a Championship player, others like an unstoppable force. Even within a game, he can be beyond awful for 30mins then have a ridiculously good 15mins during which he wins us the game.
Also, Rashford has many positive attributes (pace, direct running, dribbling, crossing, killer passes, shots from outside the area etc...) but his BASE technique is not actually that great. When I say base technique, I mean the way he controls and moves with the ball. For comparison of someone similar who has fantastic “base” technique, see Martial. Now, Rashford has some attributes I would like to see in Martial, however, Martial is far superior to Rashford in terms of close control, touch, and generally being comfortable on the ball.
If you want an example of a young player at United who IS a world class talent, see Mason Greenwood. As I said above, world-class to me means doing great things over and over again with an ease that makes them seem almost inevitable. You barely bat an eye when Messi beats three men and flicks it over the keeper to score his 48th of the season or when Ronaldo climbs about 8ft in the air to power home a header to score a third hat trick in one CL season. It just happens. It’s what they do.
Mason will be this kind of player. A relentless finisher who just never, ever gets bored of scoring the same type of goal over and over again. I just have never seen anything in Rashford to demonstrate the this kind of consistency.
In summary, I would say in Rashford we have a good, potentially very good, attacking winger who is young and Utd through and through. But I can’t help but feel if we get Sancho, Rashford will be the one who eventually will get left behind as Mason, Martial and Sancho become first names on the team sheet. That’s not actually a bad thing in any way, shape or form. If you have players as good as Marcus on the fringes of the XI, that can only be a good thing!!
First off, there where a few reasons I was SO harsh about Rashford
1) The media constantly banged on about Jose ruining a “world class talent” by playing him out wide. Bollocks. Rashford is an AWFUL central striker. Hates playing with his back to goal and it detracts from all the major positives about his game imo.
2) I felt like the hype around Rashford was being generated from within the club to try and kid supporters during a period when the club underachieved on the pitch. I felt like they where trying to perpetrate this myth that everything would be OK in a few years because Rashford was the next Ronaldo or Messi. Which again I feel is way off the mark.
3) Utd fans had become desperate to cling onto something and I felt that led to Rashford being talked up beyond his abilities
Now, all that being said, I feel that now we’re on an upward trajectory, we have a settled manager who understands Rashford’s best position and the fan/media hype around him has largely disappeared, we can be honest and level-headed about his actual talent.
The first thing to say is Rashford is not world class and never will be. That is not to say he isn’t capable of world-class moments. It’s just that world-class players do it relentlessly to the point it becomes almost inevitable and boring. Rashford blows hot and cold. Some games he looks like a Championship player, others like an unstoppable force. Even within a game, he can be beyond awful for 30mins then have a ridiculously good 15mins during which he wins us the game.
Also, Rashford has many positive attributes (pace, direct running, dribbling, crossing, killer passes, shots from outside the area etc...) but his BASE technique is not actually that great. When I say base technique, I mean the way he controls and moves with the ball. For comparison of someone similar who has fantastic “base” technique, see Martial. Now, Rashford has some attributes I would like to see in Martial, however, Martial is far superior to Rashford in terms of close control, touch, and generally being comfortable on the ball.
If you want an example of a young player at United who IS a world class talent, see Mason Greenwood. As I said above, world-class to me means doing great things over and over again with an ease that makes them seem almost inevitable. You barely bat an eye when Messi beats three men and flicks it over the keeper to score his 48th of the season or when Ronaldo climbs about 8ft in the air to power home a header to score a third hat trick in one CL season. It just happens. It’s what they do.
Mason will be this kind of player. A relentless finisher who just never, ever gets bored of scoring the same type of goal over and over again. I just have never seen anything in Rashford to demonstrate the this kind of consistency.
In summary, I would say in Rashford we have a good, potentially very good, attacking winger who is young and Utd through and through. But I can’t help but feel if we get Sancho, Rashford will be the one who eventually will get left behind as Mason, Martial and Sancho become first names on the team sheet. That’s not actually a bad thing in any way, shape or form. If you have players as good as Marcus on the fringes of the XI, that can only be a good thing!!
Some of our fans need to get off his back. A lot of them seem to forget the fact that he's coming back from a back injury.
Had to stop reading after that bolded part. The truth is you’ve not got a fecking clue, just like me, about how he will turn out. To stamp an absolute statement like that on Rashford after this season seems mad to me, but hey, you do you!
Comparing Rashford to Messi and Ronaldo and even Greenwood (who is just starting his career) is unfair. Generational talents who have performed from a young age of 18 to present day. Over 15+ years that will never be replicated. There are countless world class players over the last 20 years not named Messi/Ronaldo who have had a similar trajectory. In fact, your description is just an outlier of 99% of world class footballers. Not every player is a prodigious young talent like Mbappe, Hazard, Rooney, I won't even mention Fowler and Owen who both underachieved from a similar potential that they showed at the age of Mason.
Look at Henry at 22, completely flopping at Juventus. Lewandowski at 22? Still in Poland linked to a move to mid table Blackburn Rovers. Arjen Robben at 22? Talented cog in a brilliant Chelsea title winning team but still inconsistent. Franck Ribery at 22? Scoring only twice for a Metz team while impressing greatly. Sadio Mane at 22? Still in Austria, unknown and unproven in the top five leagues. Drogba at 22? Playing in the French Second Division. Even someone like Heung-Min Son at 22 was inconsistent at Leverkusen before improving a lot to the level he is now in his prime. I could go on for hours.
It's impossible to say Rashford will not be world class, as you have even admitted that he has the tools (pace, direct running, dribbling, crossing, killer passes, shots from outside the area etc...). He has started to add the consistency to his game at the age of 21/22 which is outstanding. To say that Rashford will become a squad player after what he's achieved in his short career so far is unfair. You say he's a moments player, i don't think that's a bad thing. We need players to produce in these big moments and he's more often than not been a shining light for us in a dark last 4 years. To add, i can't remember the last time Rashford played to a Championship level standard of performance in a game. His base level has improved tenfold this season.
I think he's played like Ronaldinho since the restart. Obviously not on the same level but that's who he's reminded me of. He's the main reason Shaw has got in more dangerous positions lately and that's exactly what Ronaldinho did with van bronckhorst. Put any of our other players on the left side and Shaw will go back to looking clueless. His forward passing into Martial and Bruno has been excellent and has been a catalyst for creating attacking moves. In this new system, Rashford and Pogba are the initiators and the executors are Bruno, Greenwood and Martial.
In saying that, Rashford has still found himself in great positions to score and with better finishing could have had one goal in each match since the Sheffield game. While the change in style has reduced his number of chances, he still gets enough to be a main goal scorer in the team. He'll start banging them in soon, I'm sure of that.
In saying that, Rashford has still found himself in great positions to score and with better finishing could have had one goal in each match since the Sheffield game. While the change in style has reduced his number of chances, he still gets enough to be a main goal scorer in the team. He'll start banging them in soon, I'm sure of that.
Can't disagree with any of this. Fact is world class players get it done regardless of conditions. He on the other hand struggles in tight spaces because of the base 'technique' you speak of. His worse performances have traditionally come from teams with no interest in engaging us or when he's played up front.
However he has his uses. He's always going to be a very good player in matches where there is a lot of space in behind. Primarily why he's such a great big game player and that means that he'll always have a role to play at the club. Then there are smaller clubs that always seem to attempt to play on the front foot, that's easy meat for Rashers.
Ole just has to use him in the best conditions to use him in from now on if we get Sancho and he'll still carve out a big United career.
yeah but if you're not Messi you are just a squad player.
fecksake. Spoilt fans like this guy are just ridiculous.
Listing all the great traits about a player but because he doesn't have the x of x player who is in the top 1% of that particular area of football, therefore my previous bad opinion is still right.. so there. Pathetic.
Rashford is an excellent player who is maturing as a footballer and you can see that with his goals and creativity this season.
It's mad how perceptions of a player can change on such fine margins. He should really have had 2 assists and maybe a goal too against villa. I swear some people don't actually watch our games but just the highlights packages. If AWB and Martial had scored everyone would have been raving about Rashford for 2 great assists.
I disagree with this. It's one of the cliches that has stuck on Rashford since his come up.
Yes, in the Mourinho years this was true to a degree but that was a squad-wide issue, no one looked good in tight spaces. The Rashford of the last 12/18 months has wriggled out of a tight gap with a bit of ridiculous skill on many an occasion. How many times have we seen a defender get tight him just to get nutmegged or dribbled round with an elastico? That's one part of his game alongside his ever improving first touch that it is clear he has worked on since the Jose era.
Yeah but his close control isn't as good as Martial so he can't be world class.
It's ridiculous.
I thought he was brilliant against Villa, some of the passes he was picking were delightful and that shot that Pogba blocked was probably going in too.
Rashford could easily have been a first team player in the 2007-08 team. He is that good.. at the age of 22. God knows what heights he will reach his career. Obviously not at the same level as Ronaldo / Messi but who is? Those who are writing him off with the imminent arrival of Sancho will eat their words. I am very sure of that.
Agreed. So many unrealistic comparisons to players that are quite frankly god-tier. You don't have to score 50 goals from a wide position to be world class.
I am not one of Rashford's biggest fan but most of what you say are not factually correct. He might not be balon d'or winner but he can be damn world class. He is still young and understanding his game. Just like Martial, he is perhaps now playing in his best position and will only improve with his finishing. We can all see that his creativity has gone up a notch, next is his finishing.
He's had a bad injury and it will take a while to trust his body again. Give him time and he will come back to his preinjury stage. I would say that technique wise he is better or at least same level as Sterling. He is still young, he will get there.
Its ridiculous to suggest that he only plays well in tight spaces. Countless assist he has made in very tight situations. The last season Bournemouth assist and the numerous elasticos. He will be a great player for us no doubt. Because Greenwood has come up and scored some goals this season and the imminent arrival of Sancho, there Rashford is less of a player, outrageous!
There are alot of things that goes on in making a great player and having the touch of Messi or Xavi is not the only thing.
There are alot of things that goes on in making a great player and having the touch of Messi or Xavi is not the only thing.
How many time do you need to see him run into defenders to see that it isn't consistent? His first touch will never be elite, it just doesn't work like that. He's worked on his game and come a long way that's pretty much obvious but he's never been consistently great in all conditions. In conditions that suit him he's nothing short of devastating. Just ask the other big teams in the league.
your account name is about a player who was also known for being championship level when he was off his game and had one of the most inconsistent first touches of a long term first choice striker in the Fergie era.
Didn't stop him from being considered a great player (or indeed a legend).
Consistency comes with maturity and playing time. People forget he is still only 22 not 28. There’s still a huge amount of time to improve. His first touch can most definitely be worked on and I’d say it’s one of his strongest suits. You say it’s not elite but again, he is not anywhere near his prime.
Not to repeat myself but he always takes the ball into his control in a graceful manner. Watch his chance against Aston Villa. Pogba sets him off and his first touch is perfect to allow him to get a shot off. Consistent is a word that is used a lot to criticise him and it’s like people forget that that’s the easiest part for a player as talented and as young as Rashford to improve on. Inconsistent yes, but improving season on season, year on year.
I don't understand why people even question Rashford's first touch, it's like they wanted to list few things, so decided to throw in whatever they can think of. His first touch is very good.
that stuff only happened near the end of his career when he was clearly overweight. He was far from a great player at that point and we eventually had to see the back of him. Comparing him to Wayne is pointless as Wayne added a great deal of other things to the team.yeah true- his first touch is very good.
Close control isn't top top level, skills to create space are one thing but accurate dribbling he isn't at there, but he doesn't have to be to be world class.
He has so many other things he is strong at, and areas to push efficiency to be world class that people don't recognise because they are obsessed with superficial football.
He's been improving each match since the restart.
I think the form of Greenwood is bizarrely being used as a stick to beat him with.
Will improve over the summer, and be our starting LW for years. We should be pretty happy with that.
I think the form of Greenwood is bizarrely being used as a stick to beat him with.
Will improve over the summer, and be our starting LW for years. We should be pretty happy with that.
Yeah, his first touch is very good. So many times ball just drops dead with this first touch. He is skillful player but yeah his close control isn't as good as Martial's or Pogba's, Like you said he has so many other attributes. He has very good shooting technique, his passing has improved a lot, he has very good ability to come up with moments of magic out of nowhere. He is just 22, with more regular football and in set position, he will improve a lot.
Rooney was always inconsistent with his first touch.
Maybe it is but it's also saving him a lot of criticism. He is getting better game by game since his return but he's definitely still off the pace.
Greenwood's goals have been huge in ensuring Rashford's form and Martial's lack of consistency haven't cost the team points.
Take it you talking about his speed, workrate and ball striking? He already has those and yet isn't world class.
If you say so. Not sure why he's part of the discussion anyways, he brought a great deal to the table that Rashford will never bring. Very different players.
Don't see him improving too much more. He's maxing out soon. Certainly won't be improving a great deal, it's up to us to use him the best way we can. Not much of a difference between him and Son for example.
I’m sorry but how can you know this? No one knows if he will improve or not, this is not a fact. Son is 28, that’s a 6 year difference. 6 years ago Son was a inconsistent winger in an average Bayer Leverkusen team.
Evidence suggests otherwise seeing that he has improved season on season. What evidence do you have to back up this theory that Rashford at the age of 22 has maxed out his footballing potential?
I’m sorry but how can you know this? No one knows if he will improve or not, this is not a fact. Son is 28, that’s a 6 year difference. 6 years ago Son was a inconsistent winger in an average Bayer Leverkusen team.
Evidence suggests otherwise seeing that he has improved season on season. What evidence do you have to back up this theory that Rashford at the age of 22 has maxed out his footballing potential?
Some on this forum are inexplicably eager to write him off. Not only on this forum to be fair.
You have a very odd way of judging potential and where a player is on that scale.
You also seem to under appreciate Rashford. Christ alive. You'd think he was a kick and run merchant the way some of you talk about him. The kid is a baller, yes he can do the kick and run as well, but he's a really rounded intelligent and skilled player for fecks sake.
He is brilliant, glad he is one of ours!
Come to think of it, Messi and Ronaldo are 'moments' players too. What do the two do 75% of the time when they play? It is the brilliance shown in the remaining 25% that matter.
Top post. Completely agree. I think the next 2 seasons will give us a far clearer picture as to where he can go with his talent. Because as for his overall talent/potential i.e. what he CAN be, we still don't know. As you said 22 is nothing. Footballers generally start peaking after 24/25, some even at 27.
Remember Ronaldo during 2003-06? He showed a few glimpses of his talent (had little moments if you recall), and I remember around 2005-06 that we were still judging him. Conversations even took place about whether he would be able to make it - I kid you not. We genuinely were not sure as to how he will turn out - and then boom! Come 2006, he lights up the world and then slowly became one the best EVER players on the planet. Not that I am saying that Rashford will become that, but then again I am also not saying that he will NOT become world class. Its still early days for him. Its not like Lingard that he's already reached 27.
I think Rashford has all the tools to become world class. He's at a stage where he needs to take the step-up from "Good" to "World Class".
Rashford was out for six months with a fractured back, I'm sure he's still feeling his way back in, these things take time but in that time he had, a chance at the back post against Spurs, he assisted Martial twice against Sheffield United, and also missed the tap in from Martial, He scored against Bournemouth and also created a goalscoring opportunity for Bruno, He made two goalscoring chances for Wan Bisakka and Martial against Villa, as well as having a goalscoring chance, he has also had two goals cancelled for offside in which at least one should have stood.
My point is that even though he is not fully up and running, he is getting in to position to have these goalscoring opportunities as well as creating a lot of chances for his teammates. The scoring will return, I will be more worried if he was not getting in to scoring positions.
With regards to Martial, are you still beating that old outdated inconsistency drum? Surely you can see that since January he has been our most consistent player after Bruno, so I don't know what games you have been watching but I can see that you have a closed mind when it comes to Martial so you only see what you want to when you watch the games, You are probably one of those that expects him to score in every game and if he does not then he is inconsistent. 20 goals whilst being injured for two months with only one coming from a penalty and he's inconsistent, we've had something like 16 penalties, imagine if he was the penalty taker like most strikers in all the other teams
i know you meant well trying to praise Rashford but this is a ridiculous statement.
Over who exactly? I love Rashford but I don't think he's that good yet.
I think the quality of the analysis in this thread sums up why SOME of our fan base are a problem.
I write a long post outlining the strengths and weaknesses of Rashford and dare to suggest he might end up being 'just' very good rather than world-class and it brings posters out in force getting all upset about it
You HAVE to be able to critically analyse your own players. You also have to appreciate Rashford is 22 years old and will (depending on the exact start date) be almost 23 by the time the next season starts.
We're not talking about an 18 year old here. We're talking about a senior player on 300K+ with 221 senior appearances at club level. For those posters who are getting upset about me saying he is not world-class because he 'is only young' or 'still has potential' - can you please let me know when we actually expect him to get there?
You also have to understand that IF Manchester United want to get back to dominating the PL and Europe then the standard has to be very high. Playing well in 15/30 minute spells isn't enough. Having one good, one average and one bad game probably isn't enough. That will get you what we've had for the last 4+ seasons - a fight for 4th
I write a long post outlining the strengths and weaknesses of Rashford and dare to suggest he might end up being 'just' very good rather than world-class and it brings posters out in force getting all upset about it
You HAVE to be able to critically analyse your own players. You also have to appreciate Rashford is 22 years old and will (depending on the exact start date) be almost 23 by the time the next season starts.
We're not talking about an 18 year old here. We're talking about a senior player on 300K+ with 221 senior appearances at club level. For those posters who are getting upset about me saying he is not world-class because he 'is only young' or 'still has potential' - can you please let me know when we actually expect him to get there?
You also have to understand that IF Manchester United want to get back to dominating the PL and Europe then the standard has to be very high. Playing well in 15/30 minute spells isn't enough. Having one good, one average and one bad game probably isn't enough. That will get you what we've had for the last 4+ seasons - a fight for 4th
I don’t think you’ll do yourself any favours by adding 100k a week onto his wages
The best way to improve the team and players like Rashford is to invest in more quality players to promote competition for places. I think Ole has said the same recently that he is ready to replace those who are not up to the task. This is a good approach for any team wanting to win major honours. Or we can adopt an Arsenal like mentality and worship what we have without critically appraising each and every player and their contribution.
Rashford the new Benzema aye.
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