Manuel Neuer

I really hope we DON'T sign Neuer. He's incredibily overrated by the German and international press, just because he's German and he had some awesome European game a few years ago. Add to that the fact he's young, and the fact that Germany didn't have anyone else stepping up as Germany's no.1 after Kahn/Lehmann, and you get yourself a new 'worldclass' talent.

I've seen lots of him (Sportschau on ARD and also regularly watching full games of Bundesliga on a sportchannel here. I have also seen him live once in a Champions League game against Porto) and it really amazes me how enthousiastic the Germans get over this guy. I've seen him make some very basic GK errors on far too many occassions for him to be anywhere near good enough for United. He's simply not solid enough.

With someone like VDS, I'm not worried when a cross comes in, because you can be pretty sure that when VDS comes out, he'll be fine. With Neuer, I'd be terrified. Honestly! he'll occassionaly make some spectacular save which will fuel the fanboys wanking over him, but generaly he's just an average GK who makes silly mistakes far too often to be considered as VDS's successor.

SAF, if you're reading this :) : Don't sign him because it will not end well!
 
Cristiano_RAFC said:
I really hope we DON'T sign Neuer. He's incredibily overrated by the German and international press, just because he's German and he had some awesome European game a few years ago. Add to that the fact he's young, and the fact that Germany didn't have anyone else stepping up as Germany's no.1 after Kahn/Lehmann, and you get yourself a new 'worldclass' talent.

I've seen lots of him (Sportschau on ARD and also regularly watching full games of Bundesliga on a sportchannel here. I have also seen him live once in a Champions League game against Porto) and it really amazes me how enthousiastic the Germans get over this guy. I've seen him make some very basic GK errors on far too many occassions for him to be anywhere near good enough for United. He's simply not solid enough.

With someone like VDS, I'm not worried when a cross comes in, because you can be pretty sure that when VDS comes out, he'll be fine. With Neuer, I'd be terrified. Honestly! he'll occassionaly make some spectacular save which will fuel the fanboys wanking over him, but generaly he's just an average GK who makes silly mistakes far too often to be considered as VDS's successor.

SAF, if you're reading this :) : Don't sign him because it will not end well!
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As opposed to Lloris, Akinfeev or Adler? (who are mentioned amongst the GK targets).
 
Cristiano_RAFC said:
I really hope we DON'T sign Neuer. He's incredibily overrated by the German and international press, just because he's German and he had some awesome European game a few years ago. Add to that the fact he's young, and the fact that Germany didn't have anyone else stepping up as Germany's no.1 after Kahn/Lehmann, and you get yourself a new 'worldclass' talent.

I've seen lots of him (Sportschau on ARD and also regularly watching full games of Bundesliga on a sportchannel here. I have also seen him live once in a Champions League game against Porto) and it really amazes me how enthousiastic the Germans get over this guy. I've seen him make some very basic GK errors on far too many occassions for him to be anywhere near good enough for United. He's simply not solid enough.

With someone like VDS, I'm not worried when a cross comes in, because you can be pretty sure that when VDS comes out, he'll be fine. With Neuer, I'd be terrified. Honestly! he'll occassionaly make some spectacular save which will fuel the fanboys wanking over him, but generaly he's just an average GK who makes silly mistakes far too often to be considered as VDS's successor.

SAF, if you're reading this :) : Don't sign him because it will not end well!
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At his age he is the best you can get atm, it's that simple really.
 
Cristiano_RAFC said:
I really hope we DON'T sign Neuer. He's incredibily overrated by the German and international press, just because he's German and he had some awesome European game a few years ago. Add to that the fact he's young, and the fact that Germany didn't have anyone else stepping up as Germany's no.1 after Kahn/Lehmann, and you get yourself a new 'worldclass' talent.

I've seen lots of him (Sportschau on ARD and also regularly watching full games of Bundesliga on a sportchannel here. I have also seen him live once in a Champions League game against Porto) and it really amazes me how enthousiastic the Germans get over this guy. I've seen him make some very basic GK errors on far too many occassions for him to be anywhere near good enough for United. He's simply not solid enough.

With someone like VDS, I'm not worried when a cross comes in, because you can be pretty sure that when VDS comes out, he'll be fine. With Neuer, I'd be terrified. Honestly! he'll occassionaly make some spectacular save which will fuel the fanboys wanking over him, but generaly he's just an average GK who makes silly mistakes far too often to be considered as VDS's successor.

SAF, if you're reading this :) : Don't sign him because it will not end well!
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Didn't he have the best game of his life vs Porto?
 
IrishLegend said:
As opposed to Lloris, Akinfeev or Adler? (who are mentioned amongst the GK targets).
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No, I don't have much more confidence when they come out for a cross.

Generally, the young goalkeepers coming through and being hailed the best young GK talents in the world, haven't really impressed me overall and I generally feel that this crop of GKs is not as good as previous generations. They are usually great shotstoppers, but when they have to come for a cross, they seem to not know what they are doing far too often.
 
Cristiano_RAFC said:
Then I'd rather get someone older and a little more experienced.
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I agree. Especially at €20 mill that some reports claim. There is always a risk when you buy young goalkeepers. And at €20 mill it should be risk free. There are many talented young goalkeepers, and I'd prefer we look elsewhere if thats the price.

I'd actually consider Asmir Begovic closely (spent most of his younger years in germany, since it seems to matter for some).
 
Cristiano_RAFC said:
I really hope we DON'T sign Neuer. He's incredibily overrated by the German and international press, just because he's German and he had some awesome European game a few years ago. Add to that the fact he's young, and the fact that Germany didn't have anyone else stepping up as Germany's no.1 after Kahn/Lehmann, and you get yourself a new 'worldclass' talent.

I've seen lots of him (Sportschau on ARD and also regularly watching full games of Bundesliga on a sportchannel here. I have also seen him live once in a Champions League game against Porto) and it really amazes me how enthousiastic the Germans get over this guy. I've seen him make some very basic GK errors on far too many occassions for him to be anywhere near good enough for United. He's simply not solid enough.

With someone like VDS, I'm not worried when a cross comes in, because you can be pretty sure that when VDS comes out, he'll be fine. With Neuer, I'd be terrified. Honestly! he'll occassionaly make some spectacular save which will fuel the fanboys wanking over him, but generaly he's just an average GK who makes silly mistakes far too often to be considered as VDS's successor.

SAF, if you're reading this :) : Don't sign him because it will not end well!
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:lol:
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
:lol:
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One cant really disagree that Neuer makes quite a few basic goalkeeper errors during a season. Considering he would be one of the most expensive goalkeepers in history, he makes too many of them.

He is very eccentric. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I've seen it backfire on him.

That said, all goalkeepers makes errors. A player like van der Sar too. But a van der Sar that playes every game in a Premier League-season probably wont make more than five or six "mistakes". Tops. PIG and Foster had one every 100 minute or so. Most of Manchester Uniteds goalkeepers in the past have had good basic qualities. Some just tend to let themselves down more often.

This is also why I feel one should not pay silly money for a goalkeeper. When you purchase an outfield player, you are looking for someone who can give you something extra. If you find a player who has the x-factor and ability to win matches for you, you are willing to pay for it. When looking for a goalkeeper, its just as important (in my opinion more important) finding the player who don't make mistakes, as finding the one who pulls a rabbit out the hat every now and then. That also one of the reasons why its so difficult finding the right goalkeeper. One need to watch the player in a great amount of games to know.
 
andersj said:
One cant really disagree that Neuer makes quite a few basic goalkeeper errors during a season. Considering he would be one of the most expensive goalkeepers in history, he makes to many of them.....
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Mate the fella has described him as if he was a more nevous version of Ben Foster. Being a person who watches Neuer often too. His post to me is just hilarious.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Mate the fella has described him as if he was a more nevous version of Ben Foster. Being a person who watches Neuer often too. His post to me is just hilarious.
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Yeah, I see where it came from. I looked at it more as a response to the hype.

Of course, he is a great goalkeeper. Does not strike me as nervous as all, which of course is a great asset, too.
 
andersj said:
Yeah, I see where it came from. I looked at it more as a response to the hype.

Of course, he is a great goalkeeper. Does not strike me as nervous as all, which of course is a great asset, too.
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Spot on! The hype just needs some counterweight (is that correct english? :)) because it's easy for everyone to hype the kid and that'll make the expectations of his performances irrational and I'm not at all convinced he will/would live up to the expectations.

Someone from the newbies even sent me a pm because of yesterday's post and I'll post you my reply (even had to sent it in two messages, because it was too long:

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to venture your opinion. Your obviously a Neuer fan so you're not going to like my reply, but here it goes anyway.

I do follow the Bundesliga regularly and I have seen a lot of him and certainly enough for me to form an opinion him. You can agree with it or disagree, but that's just how I perceive Neuer's performances.

When I talk about Neuer's errors, I'm not always talking about blatant errors. I'm also talking about positional errors where he for instance should be one step to the right or left or about errors in decission making where he for instance decided to come out for a cross (when he shouldn't) and then second guesses himself and runs back, which leaves him basically in no man's land, the worst spot for a GK to be in. Those are the kind of errors that I just see him make too often.

For instance last weeks goal from Valencia is such an example. No commentator will have said Neuer made an error there, and it wasn't a blatant error either, but he made a poor decission anticipating too early for a cross when he in fact had to defend his first post because of the valencia player (the first threat) running to the first post and obviously getting to the end of that cross first. Just check the goal again and watch the space between the post and Neuer and you can see there's quite a gap there. Just half a step to the right would have made a difference, but his decission to anticipate too early resulted in him not being that half a step to the right which would have given him a much better chance of saving it. Mind you, I'm not saying he HAD TO save it, because Soldado's shot was obviously from very close, and it would have been a great save, but that's what I expect from someone who is said to be one of the greatest young GKs in the world. Again, I'm not saying he should have saved it, but he could (and should) have given himself a better chance of saving it.

Situations like the one with Soldado, are the kind of details where someone like VDS or Buffon will usually have a better feel for the situation, where someone like Neuer doesn't have that same feel for the situation it appears to be.

I'm also not overly confident when Neuer comes out for crosses, but I also have to say that there's very very few young goalkeepers that seem worldclass in that area nowadays which is actually quite worrying in my opinion.

You point out some world class performances, and I won't deny he has had a few, but anyone can name much less talented goalkeepers with and occasional worldclass performance. That's not the standard display they put out there on the field for an entire season and it's long term performance that should be weighed here in my opinion.

To conclude, goalkeeping is not just about making great saves and having amazing reflexes (You can obviously point me to some clips with neuer's greatest saves or something). It's about making the best decission (sometimes in a split second --> reflex) in different situations to prevent the other team from scoring and also contribute to your own team's confidence. You know... the kind of things that will be harder to look for in a youtube clip. Sometimes/often, the outcome might be the same, but in the long run, I'm convinced that the goalkeeper who makes beter decissions (e.g. coming out or not, position,...), will have a higher succesrate in the longrun. And Man United, in my opinion should be looking for such goalkeepers.

Anyway, it's likely you'll disagree with me, but that's fine. I just posted my thoughts and I stick by them untill I can see vast improvement from Neuer over a certain period of time. Untill then, I hope United won't sign him!

Hope you can get your promotion to the mains soon...

Grtz

CristianoRAFC
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I bolded some cliffnotes. And I added the part in italic compared to my reply to the guy from the newbies to further explain my opinion after re-reading the post/pm.

Now bring on the trolls. :)
 
Cristiano_RAFC said:
Spot on! The hype just needs some counterweight (is that correct english? :)) because it's easy for everyone to hype the kid and that'll make the expectations of his performances irrational and I'm not at all convinced he will/would live up to the expectations.

Someone from the newbies even sent me a pm because of yesterday's post and I'll post you my reply (even had to sent it in two messages, because it was too long:



I bolded some cliffnotes. And I added the part in italic compared to my reply to the guy from the newbies to further explain my opinion after re-reading the post/pm.

Now bring on the trolls. :)
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No trolls, just some good debate which is always good to read. I think one thing we must take into consideration is that is Neuer going to improve or is this the finished article? if this is his peak then I agree, we need to look for someone different however I dont believe this is the case.

He is 24 right now, alot of keepers hit their prime closer to 30 and true talents can keep playing until 40. I think Neuer, under our guidance and training, along with a fantastic team environment will help Neuer reach his full potential. Also he will play in some higher pressure games and if he is as resilient as he has shown he will rise to the challenge.

To summarize, I think we can get more out of him, improve his cross collection and reign in his eccentricy. Especially will coaches like VDS, Eric Steele and of course Fergie :)
 
One of the appealing thing about Neuer is his arrogance. Looking back and reading some of the comments and observations around Schmeichel when he was starting off his career, he had that arrogance too. I think it's essential to succeed at United. You have to be full of yourself and confident in your own ability. Neuer won't be nervous on the big stage.
 
The thing is at 24 Neuer is kid in terms of goalkeepinp. He can only get better. I mean, if Gomes of Spurs could finally get to terms with crossing in the Prem. How much more a lad as talent as Neuer?

When people want keepers who are world class at cross collection. They should remember we signed big Pete aged 26 and Edwin VDS aged over 30.. We've never signed truly world class talent of a keeper below that age.


So he question is should we go for the steady, few good years and then down hill type keeper. Or one who could come here and make the place his for a decade.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
Begovic.......are you joking? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Neuer is ten times better than him.
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Actually, he is not. Another great game by Begovic today, but he sometimes goes down a bit fast. Should be easy to adjust. Could learn from Sar, who is very patient.

Probably man of the match.
 
He's very expensive. Way more wages than VDS has. Would be the 3rd highest paid player at the club.

Van der Sar never had Buffon's injury problems at age 30-33. That's why he hasn't got much left. It's not just a simple strain here and there. It's back problems. Medical science has few answers to those.
 
andersj said:
Actually, he is not. Another great game by Begovic today, but he sometimes goes down a bit fast. Should be easy to adjust. Could learn from Sar, who is very patient.

Probably man of the match.
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Actually he is.

Begovic is a decent 'keeper but not in Neuer's league.
 
Personally I don't rate any of Neuer, Adler, Akinfeev or Lloris that highly from what I've seen either, and while I haven't seen a huge amount of any of them, my impression is that they are all 'Youtube goalies' who struggle with more elementary keeping disciplines, Adler and Akinfeev in particular.
 
samabachan said:
Personally I don't rate any of Neuer, Adler, Akinfeev or Lloris that highly from what I've seen either, and while I haven't seen a huge amount of any of them, my impression is that they are all 'Youtube goalies' who struggle with more elementary keeping disciplines, Adler and Akinfeev in particular.
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Akinfeev is the very definition of a youtube 'keeper imo. Neuer is not though and it's his "elementary keeping disciplines" that I like the most about him. Well, that and he seems to have the correct mentality to be able to cope with being a 'keeper at the highest level.
 
Kiwi Red is back online, safe and sound from the earthquake. I'm in Wellington (North Island), but had friends and family in Christchurch, and have just found out that all have escaped okay. There was one we couldn't get hold of, but now have, so all is well there.

Thanks to everyone for your messages of support and well wishes, we will recover in time.

Right, moving onto this keeper thing - I don't understand the people who say that keepers are overrated and it's worth spending more on outfielders who will give you an X-factor and win you matches with skill. Keepers are worth at least 10 points a season, maybe even 15 - it's worth spending good money to get a decent one if need be.

Having said that, I completely agree with the general sentiment that we don't want just a good shot-stopper (we had that in Foster anyway). We need a keeper who isn't error prone and doesn't make mistakes often. I would like to see us buy a all-round decent keeper, they don't have to be awesome in one particular discipline like shot stopping or their dealing with crosses, I just want someone who is assured in all areas.
 
Why don't we just go for Julio Cesar/ Buffon / Casillas... Because if we're going by the caf logic, we can only go for these three.

All GK's make a mistake, love them, hate them, they will never have a whole season without making a simple GK mistake, heck' I've seen Casillas fumble many at his prime.

I do rate the posts, but you can't deny the fact that Neuer has been one of Schalke's consistent players and if you had put a normal GK there they probably would be in the relegation zone.

Try putting Neuer in a world class defense of Vidic/Rio and then you can probably see a difference.
 
Kiwi Red said:
Kiwi Red is back online, safe and sound from the earthquake. I'm in Wellington (North Island), but had friends and family in Christchurch, and have just found out that all have escaped okay.

Welcome back Kiwi Red, glad you and your family are safe. We have had a couple of bad earthquakes here, so know what you went through.
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I haven't followed the debate here but the biggest issue United have is there's plenty of time when the keepers don't have anything to do. Against the 'cannon fodder' teams it's often just one or two shots they might need to save, so it's imperative the keeper has excellent concentration, especially when not being called to action.

That's the problem with just acquiring keepers on shot stopping capabilities. Often these keepers are called to action constantly and thus are always 'ready' to make a save.

How's Neuer's concentration? is he a prototypical shot stopper or does he have matches where he goes 30 minutes without really being tested but has the concentration to still stop that unexpected shot at the end of the quiet period?
 
Manchester United want Neuer

Schalke-Boss Clemens Tönnies: ''Ein internationaler Berater ist an mich herangetreten und hat mich informiert, dass Manchester United Interesse an Neuer hat. Bei einer schriftlichen Anfrage aus Manchester werden wir uns damit beschäftigen.''
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Schalke-Boss Clemens Tönnies: an agent has come up to me, informed me that Manchester United are indeed interested in Manuel Neuer. Should a written offer come in, we will certainly talk about it.

Schalke-Boss Clemens Tönnies: Manchester United will Manuel Neuer - Sport - Schalke 04 - Fußball-Bundesliga - Bild.de
 
Football | Bundesliga | Schalke aware of Neuer interest | ESPNSTAR.com
Schalke chairman Clemens Tonnies has revealed he is aware of Manchester United's interest in goalkeeper Manuel Neuer.

With United's first choice goalkeeper Edwin van der Sar set to retire at the end of this season at the age of 40, there has been constant speculation over who will take over the sizeable gloves of the giant Dutchman.

While United, who are currently top in the Barclays Premier League, have Tomasz Kuszczak, Anders Lindegaard and young Ben Amos among their goalkeeping ranks, United manager Sir Alex Ferguson is rumoured to be carefully weighing up all his options, eager to avoid the mistake he made of not adequately replacing legendary custodian Peter Schmeichel years ago.

Various names have been bandied around with regards to taking over van der Sar in goal at Old Trafford, with Neuer's name constantly popping up alongside the likes of Lyon's Hugo Lloris, Ajax's Maarten Stekelenburg, and Atletico Madrid's David de Gea.

Neuer's club chairman Tonnies has now come out saying that he is aware of United's interest, and has refused to rule out selling one of his club's prized assets.

Speaking to Bild, Tonnies revealed: "An international consultant has approached me and informed me that Manchester United are interested in Neuer."

"If Manchester United present us with a written request, then we will deal with it."

Tonnies' surprising reluctance to actively ward United's pursuit off suggests that Schalke might be willing to do business should they receive a sizeable offer for Germany's current number one.

However, should Neuer be available for transfer, United will face stiff competition for his signature from Schalke's German Bundesliga rivals Bayern Munich.

Bayern's manager Louis van Gaal has openly revealed his admiration of Neuer, calling him a player "we could do with."

Neuer, who is the current captain of Schalke, rose through their youth ranks and was part of Germany's 2010 World Cup squad that finished third in the tournament.
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Sean_RedDevil said:
Schalke needs the money + His contract runs out next season + No CL football for them next season = Neuer will leave Schalke this summer 100%
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True, true, true.

Bayern have offered their goalie, Thomas Kraft, a contract extension and it looks likely he will. It all depends on though whether the Bavarians still want Neuer.
 
MST3K said:
So I'm wondering if a big club bids for him, us or another one outside the bundesliga, would shalke be happier to sell him to them then bayern as to not strengthen a rival? Or are they just happy to cash in?
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Well, I, for one, haven't seen Neuer being linked to anyone else apart from Bayern & Manchester United in the German press.

Should United really do bid for him, Schalke would be willing to discuss a transfer, no doubt. Although Felix Magath has said that Neuer is ''not for sale'', Schalke's financial situaiton suggests otherwise. However, Neuer hasn't come out and said anything to United's potential interest. Maybe someone will ask him after the German cup tie between Schalke and Bayern in Munich tonight.
 
Might have been answered before, but who would you rather signed for United, Neuer or Adler, Jaap?
 
Jaap said:
True, true, true.

Bayern have offered their goalie, Thomas Kraft, a contract extension and it looks likely he will. It all depends on though whether the Bavarians still want Neuer.
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Din't Van Gaal say some days back they want him? Though if they're offering Kraft an extension I hope we get Neuer :drool:
 
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