ETH's comments after the game speak a different story. The final games ahead of Wolves will be important, not just fitness-wise. We all want to see us playing as a proper team and create a winning culture.
Manchester United vs Dortmund (Mon 31st July, 02:00 UK time)
- Thread starter Samid
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There was a lot of sloppiness in the final 3rd and we were a bit slow at building up.
Pressing could have been better.
Ten Hag is just setting high standards, so the team abides by it. We've played much worse before.
It was atrocious. I’m actually very concerned about that midfield and style ETH wants to implement. It’s very off balance given the personnel, Casemiro Mount Bruno. And based on the game, we dare not not lose the ball in any of the first two phases of build up because we will not have enough men to cover since we put so many people high up the pitch, yet we don’t have enough players who are technically secure to not lose the ball.
I think we’re still going to see a number of games where we concede quite a lot. I’ll be scared when we face teams like Bayern and co in the UCL.
Was sloppy, but we could have scored 4 times via Rashford, Hugill, AWB, Antony.
Higher standards.
To be honest, we would need to spend 500m to resolve all the issues. I would sell Maguire and buy Pavard, who can play CB and RB. At least, we would have someone better than what we have that is flexible.
Missing KMJ was sad and I blame it on Ten hag. He's the kind of signing that would have solidified our defense even further and with addition of Hojlund, we would probably be talking about challenging for the title. Please no one should try and tell me it wasn't the fault of Ten Hag that we could sign Kim because when he sanctioned the Mount signing, he got it. All the 3 players we signed are Ten hag choices. In my opinion, we should have used that money we spent on Mount on Kim Min Jae. We already have player's playing in that same number 10 position. Is someone counting the number of goals we keep conceding at the back?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Van Gaal's first pre-season.
Played seven, won seven.
Then Swansea at home.
Lose 1-2. Swansea FFS.
Then a style of football that made you want to reach for the cyanide pills.
Just calm down.
All Dortmund's goals were horrible defensive errors. Absolute gifts. We looked pretty comfortable before cocking up to let them score that quick fire double.
We still need a few defenders who are comfortable playing out from the back, particularly at RB and another CB. Too easy to press otherwise. I imagine that will be the priority in the next window, or most likely next summer.
We still need a few defenders who are comfortable playing out from the back, particularly at RB and another CB. Too easy to press otherwise. I imagine that will be the priority in the next window, or most likely next summer.
This interaction was a waste of precious minutes of both of our lives. I regret it terribly.
What if he did sanction it but KMJ saw Varane and Martinez as first choice and fancied guaranteed starts and trophies at Bayern?
According to the caf it is
Seeing those horrible defensive errors reminded me that we missed out on KMJ. Martinez and KMJ would have been a beast of pairing for years to come. Sad times.
Fair point. That might have been the case. I haven’t seen Utd linked with a new CB though. Varane has missed 32 games (17 games in 21/22 and 15 games in 22/23) and I expect him to miss some games this season. The thought of Maguire playing in one of our biggest games this season is perplexing.
We are talking about a 3rd or 4th choice signing which is entirely dependent on Maguire leaving. There isn’t the rush you think there is.
Haven´t catched many of pre-season so far. How does Antony look? Is he developing his play, doing efficient stuff? Or still mostly inefficient, always doing the same cut-in move etc.?
Whenever we have an amazing pre season, we usually start the season like crap. Hope the opposite happens this time.
Great! Thanks
If I was Richard Arnold I would take the £20m offer from Westham. Will the Saudi get him? He surely will provide a lot of entertainment for the audience and league there
£20m is below amortisation so would have a negative FFP effect leaving us unable to afford a replacement.If I was Richard Arnold I would take the £20m offer from Westham. Will the Saudi get him? He surely will provide a lot of entertainment for the audience and league there
No don't be silly
of course KMJ saw back up to Varane at United as step up above moving as No.1 to Bayern. Dreary me some people on here need a reality check. Here how I see it Sutalo is 23 up and coming and would be a great understudy and would accept that position just now. Check him out, plays RB for Croatia and filled in LB against Spain recently in absence of Gvaridol. Watch that match he has skills. The kind of player on a upward trajectory that can be had for the price circa 18-20m and he will be on less wages , currently on 7k at Zagreb. Yes I have been on here like a broken record on him. But to the eye he has what i think it takes.Nothing to worry about really. All that matters is Wolves in 2 weeks time. As it has been pointed out previously, we’ve had very good pre-seasons in the past only to look flat footed in the initial league games.
I get the feeling ETH is doing a lot of team experimenting since he had zero opportunities last season to do it with the tight schedule.
I get the feeling ETH is doing a lot of team experimenting since he had zero opportunities last season to do it with the tight schedule.
His right footed miss was bad
Nothing to worry guys, the team we put in the first half wasn't even our second team. We'll be ready for Wolves.
Sounds like we played some decent stuff, good pressing and passing, 3 individual brain farts and some missed chances. That’s a decent platform for this stage of preseason, remembering our first team were late back to training. I’d expect big improvements by next weekend though.
It’s the team we put out in the second half that played badly.
Real Madrid beat us, Barcelona beat Real Madrid, Arsenal beat Barcelona and we beat Arsenal. Not sure what anybody can take from a pre-season.
That’s not strictly true, it depends how much his replacement costs. £20m would give us a loss of £6m but keeping Maguire for another year will lose us £13m in amortisation anyway. Therefore you could sign someone for £35m on a 5 year deal, £7m amortisation so the total cost in amortisation terms is the same for this year. A replacement for Maguire would also be on lower wages, say half his 190k salary, you’d save just under £5m a year on wages too. I suspect Cashflow is as big if not a bigger issue than amortisation.
We give those goals from Dortmund so easy away with errors in our build-up, really bad. Thankfully pre-season is almost over and we get some serious games again where we can play with our best players together.
Ten Hag not happy in the post-match
actually looked furious in his body language
actually looked furious in his body language
Poor at the back and poor up front, All their goals could have been avoided.
I have watched all of the pre-season games and I agree that the full squad had a good work out and many individuals managed to demonstrate their talent, fitness and ability to play in Ten Hags system, against quality opposition. The Wrexham game was more of an exhibition with the under 23's.
My observations are that many of the issues from last season are still evident in this pre-season. The lack of a striker means that in the final third, there is a lack of cohesion. That focal point that the rest of the team aims towards, is missing, and moves often break down when the ideas dry up. In last nights game, Luke Shaw played a lovely ball into the six yard box and nobody attacked it. Nobody was within ten yards of it. Any forward with an eye for goal would be lapping those opportunities up. But I'm not going to get het up about what we already know. What we did learn was the vital stuff we need to focus on before the Wolves game. And I will concede that with Hojlund up top, we will be a different proposition.
The results didn't really matter, as the number of players used in each of the games made the spectacle more of a competitive training session, but with the crowd and the quality opposition, it was an enjoyable test.
Good points.
Onana looks different class, he was taking balls off the defenders and playing through the lines, he even set Bruno up with a one on one with the opposition goal keeper. He plays it first touch, to feet. He is constantly talking to the defence, marshalling and organising. He will make a huge difference this season.
The one touch passing has been impressive, and some passages of play have been excellent. We controlled the procession in the majority of the games. (Albeit with little threat up top)
Nobody in the squad can argue that they didn't get their chance to show the manager what they can do, and I think that Mainoo, Pelistri, Hannibal, Brandon William's, Heaton and Jonny Evans all gave good accounts of themselves.
Dalot seems to be back to the form he had pre-world cup. Was excellent last night.
Shaw and Wan Bissaka playing much further forward, with Onana in goal. Creating overloads in the opposition half.
Antony tracking back and winning the ball.
Stuff that needs more work
Sancho as a false 9. Worked against Arsenal, but his anticipation or runs into space are always too late. He needs be on his bike before the pass is made, not waiting for the pass and then being dispossessed.
The link up play with Bruno and Mason Mount. It's not really there. I think they are still trying to find that understanding. The fact that they both play in the same position means that one has to go forward and one has to drop off and they both looked more effective when they were on their own and not on the pitch at the same time. This will need time, and they only had brief cameos.
Rashford looks rusty. His first touch is way off. I was actually panicking that he was going to do his hamstring last night, because he looked laboured and was pushing himself when the fitness wasn't there.
Casemiro looks overweight and slow. Not up to his standards. We know he needs a run of games to get his form.
Lindlelof and Wan Bissaka gave away goals trying to play out from the back. We know it is a big part of Ten Hag's philiosophy, but they both took the more difficult passes when there was an easier option, and led to Dortmund finding themselves with a run on our goal. Need to address this before the season starts. Trying to thread balls through the middle of the pitch, when there were easier options.
Maguire needs to go. He isn't the required standard, even as a back up option. Playing out from the back is slow, predictable, safe and nervy. He cannot play in Ten Hag's system. To play in the system, you need to want the ball, to pass and move, and to always look for the forward option. When Maguire sees a player closing him down, he panics and goes backwards or sideways. He slows us down.
Donny Van De Beek. It's not happening for him. Whatever it was that he once had, he hasn't found it here. He doesn't even look comfortable playing the one touch stuff that was his DNA during his entire career at Ajax. Which is a head scratcher. He needs to move on now and re-establish his career.
My observations are that many of the issues from last season are still evident in this pre-season. The lack of a striker means that in the final third, there is a lack of cohesion. That focal point that the rest of the team aims towards, is missing, and moves often break down when the ideas dry up. In last nights game, Luke Shaw played a lovely ball into the six yard box and nobody attacked it. Nobody was within ten yards of it. Any forward with an eye for goal would be lapping those opportunities up. But I'm not going to get het up about what we already know. What we did learn was the vital stuff we need to focus on before the Wolves game. And I will concede that with Hojlund up top, we will be a different proposition.
The results didn't really matter, as the number of players used in each of the games made the spectacle more of a competitive training session, but with the crowd and the quality opposition, it was an enjoyable test.
Good points.
Onana looks different class, he was taking balls off the defenders and playing through the lines, he even set Bruno up with a one on one with the opposition goal keeper. He plays it first touch, to feet. He is constantly talking to the defence, marshalling and organising. He will make a huge difference this season.
The one touch passing has been impressive, and some passages of play have been excellent. We controlled the procession in the majority of the games. (Albeit with little threat up top)
Nobody in the squad can argue that they didn't get their chance to show the manager what they can do, and I think that Mainoo, Pelistri, Hannibal, Brandon William's, Heaton and Jonny Evans all gave good accounts of themselves.
Dalot seems to be back to the form he had pre-world cup. Was excellent last night.
Shaw and Wan Bissaka playing much further forward, with Onana in goal. Creating overloads in the opposition half.
Antony tracking back and winning the ball.
Stuff that needs more work
Sancho as a false 9. Worked against Arsenal, but his anticipation or runs into space are always too late. He needs be on his bike before the pass is made, not waiting for the pass and then being dispossessed.
The link up play with Bruno and Mason Mount. It's not really there. I think they are still trying to find that understanding. The fact that they both play in the same position means that one has to go forward and one has to drop off and they both looked more effective when they were on their own and not on the pitch at the same time. This will need time, and they only had brief cameos.
Rashford looks rusty. His first touch is way off. I was actually panicking that he was going to do his hamstring last night, because he looked laboured and was pushing himself when the fitness wasn't there.
Casemiro looks overweight and slow. Not up to his standards. We know he needs a run of games to get his form.
Lindlelof and Wan Bissaka gave away goals trying to play out from the back. We know it is a big part of Ten Hag's philiosophy, but they both took the more difficult passes when there was an easier option, and led to Dortmund finding themselves with a run on our goal. Need to address this before the season starts. Trying to thread balls through the middle of the pitch, when there were easier options.
Maguire needs to go. He isn't the required standard, even as a back up option. Playing out from the back is slow, predictable, safe and nervy. He cannot play in Ten Hag's system. To play in the system, you need to want the ball, to pass and move, and to always look for the forward option. When Maguire sees a player closing him down, he panics and goes backwards or sideways. He slows us down.
Donny Van De Beek. It's not happening for him. Whatever it was that he once had, he hasn't found it here. He doesn't even look comfortable playing the one touch stuff that was his DNA during his entire career at Ajax. Which is a head scratcher. He needs to move on now and re-establish his career.
Thought in general we were ok considering the players we had playing. Also think we have time to sharpen up.
- we miss Varane when he is not there
- Onana will change how we play for the better in a settled line up but the temptation to go long to Rashford all the time needs to be avoided - great option but Rashy doesn’t do holding the ball up.
- big shame about Mainoo and Amad…think these games would have been a perfect stage for them and think Amad would play a false 9 better than Sancho who I have not seen anything from tbh
- Pellistri deserves a shot but he won’t get it here - needs a top class loan move so he can save us a few quid next summer by coming back in
- we miss Varane when he is not there
- Onana will change how we play for the better in a settled line up but the temptation to go long to Rashford all the time needs to be avoided - great option but Rashy doesn’t do holding the ball up.
- big shame about Mainoo and Amad…think these games would have been a perfect stage for them and think Amad would play a false 9 better than Sancho who I have not seen anything from tbh
- Pellistri deserves a shot but he won’t get it here - needs a top class loan move so he can save us a few quid next summer by coming back in
It doesn''t matter how well Maguire plays, his relationship with the club and the fans is too broken for him to stay.
That being said, there are some really silly takes in this thread about him. It just shows how many people judge players based on reputations and agendas.
That being said, there are some really silly takes in this thread about him. It just shows how many people judge players based on reputations and agendas.
I'm not sure if @red.knight said anything about KJM.
We have long held an interest on KJM and I’m sad we miss out on top defender with €50m release clause. I hope Ten hag is giving Maguire some minutes to play in order to attract buyers. I'm not sure if @Real Name said anything about KJM
We really should have won this game comfortably, for the majority of it we were comfortably the better team and controlled it, even the bad last half hour we looked more likely to score.
It's no surprise that the mistakes that lead to Dortmund's goals came from players that EtH inherited. Still, that's partly why pre-season matches exist, to blow out the cobwebs.
It's no surprise that the mistakes that lead to Dortmund's goals came from players that EtH inherited. Still, that's partly why pre-season matches exist, to blow out the cobwebs.
Obviously didn't watch the game, but preseason performances are irrelevant, positive and negative. You can press like crazy all the time if you want to when you know you will be subbed at half time. Others will play a lot more conservatively to avoid injuries before the season. Others yet will not give a shit and switch off when the game doesn't have stakes.
The only ones to watch are young players, since it's their opportunity to impress. Wolves is the game that matters.
The only ones to watch are young players, since it's their opportunity to impress. Wolves is the game that matters.
There is a big difference in approach to Harry Maguire. English media does protect him and even (English?) posters here keep claiming he is a good defender but lost his confidence and plays in the wrong system. Or they claim that he was world class until his Greek adventure or world class in the season after Greek adventure.
On Dutch forums Maguire is used as a joke. Like how Lingard is used as young talented player with a great career ahead of him type of joke. If a club needs a defender people will name Maguire as a funny option next to some Dutch meme players like Tommy 'ruuustaaahg' Beugelsdijk.
Maguire is made fun off on tv (van der Vaart once said he could find a better player at the lower class amateurs). Commentators chuckle at his mistakes during games or mention how much of a danger Maguire is too his own defence.
If i supported a different club i would be worried if there were rumours that my club wanted to sign Maguire. He is the biggest joke in football anywhere that isnt England and he lacks so many qualities like smart positioning, any form of agility or making the right decision, that are essential for a good defender.
Rashford was through on goal after a Dortmund player pulled up and Rashford stopped when he saw he was injured . I wouldn’t be reading much into pre season results.