Manchester United transfer news and rumours for summer 2014

If United do finish this window without another decent midfielder buy being made, I give up. Seriously, this is turning into a borderline conspiracy.

I will say this too, LVG might as well give one of our youth midfielders a go instead of fecking Fletcher, Cleverly and co.
 
Minimalist said:
If United do finish this window without another decent midfielder buy being made, I give up. Seriously, this is turning into a borderline conspiracy.

I will say this too, LVG might as well give one of our youth midfielders a go instead of fecking Fletcher, Cleverly and co.
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Juve and Moratta are both practically begging for a bid for Vidal as well.
 
I have to admit to being slightly embarrassed at the moment, we seem to be targeting everybody with any talent and even some without.
We have bought 2 class players with the minimum amount of fuss, just a pity we cant do the it this way all the time.
We have improved the team since last season and the pre-season is going well.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I have to admit to being slightly embarrassed at the moment, we seem to be targeting everybody with any talent and even some without.
We have bought 2 class players with the minimum amount of fuss, just a pity we cant do the it this way all the time.
We have improved the team since last season and the pre-season is going well.
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The club haven't done anything... It's just media speculation. So what you said doens't make sense.
 
Minimalist said:
If United do finish this window without another decent midfielder buy being made, I give up. Seriously, this is turning into a borderline conspiracy.

I will say this too, LVG might as well give one of our youth midfielders a go instead of fecking Fletcher, Cleverly and co.
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Not only that, look our defensive options, it is borderlines a complete farce if this is our defensive options

RB - rafeal ??
CB- jones smalling evans ??
LB - shaw ??
Injured? rafeal

the question marks is who we need for cover for these 5, 4 of those 5 players have horrible injury records, rafeal is currently injured, that leaves us with 4 first choice defenders. Fans say youth is great, yea if jones smalling are injured, we going to throw youngsters in the deep end?

midfield
CM carrick herrera ?? fletcher cleverly anderson fellaini
wingers - valenca nani young janazaj
AM - mata kagwa
Injured? carrick

Not only are we unbalanced with too many number 10's, carrick is injured, and we are relying on herrera to carry the engine room. If herrera picks up an injury, we would have fletcher cleverly anderson and fellaini to choose from, where the 2 latters are not even options for VG. Even if herrera stays fit all season long, it is a farce we are expected to play him every game, if he gets a break hey we can play carrick and fletcher in midfield, our 2006/07 midfield, and the year is? 2014
 
I am hoping we see a few departures soon.

Kagawa, Nani, Young, Fellaini, Cleverley, Fletcher could all go
 
Gone very slow for us in the market recently, just endless amount of speculation that doesn't go anywhere. Obviously still time, but would be nice to see new faces sooner rather than later.. Looks as if LvG was serious when he said about assessing the current squad.
 
Oneunited26 said:
Way too many when we cant sign anyone
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Well we could swap clevs and cash for mcCarthy.....Kagawa and cash for a Dortmund player....basically use what we have to prevent us getting our pants pulled down by teams expecting us to break transfer records after Woody acts like an amateur negotiator.
 
I think we'll sign one or two more players, but by mid/end of August. Van Gaal has repeatedly said he wants time to evaluate the squad before making any decision regarding transfers. Only just now has he mentioned that they are looking to buy "defenders". If we don't sign anyone else Woodward would look rather silly with the "watch this space" interview, so I guess that would only happen if LVG said he's pleased with the squad as it is now, but he's already said he isn't, at least defensively.

I would be very surprised if we're done, but not so surprised if we only signed say one defender and called it a day.
 
Got a horrible feeling we won't be signing anyone else. I for one love to see those who are good enough in the youth teams given a chance but we still need 2/3 maybe even 4 new arrivals given the strength of those who are in direct competition for top four/title.
 
Mister_Stubbs said:
Got a horrible feeling we won't be signing anyone else. I for one love to see those who are good enough in the youth teams given a chance but we still need 2/3 maybe even 4 new arrivals given the strength of those who are in direct competition for top four/title.
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There's no chance of that happening. Woodward has committed himself, LVG has said he wants signings. It's far more likely we'll make a couple of underwhelming signings.
 
Oneunited26 said:
Not only that, look our defensive options, it is borderlines a complete farce if this is our defensive options

RB - rafeal ??
CB- jones smalling evans ??
LB - shaw ??
Injured? rafeal

the question marks is who we need for cover for these 5, 4 of those 5 players have horrible injury records, rafeal is currently injured, that leaves us with 4 first choice defenders. Fans say youth is great, yea if jones smalling are injured, we going to throw youngsters in the deep end?

midfield
CM carrick herrera ?? fletcher cleverly anderson fellaini
wingers - valenca nani young janazaj
AM - mata kagwa
Injured? carrick

Not only are we unbalanced with too many number 10's, carrick is injured, and we are relying on herrera to carry the engine room. If herrera picks up an injury, we would have fletcher cleverly anderson and fellaini to choose from, where the 2 latters are not even options for VG. Even if herrera stays fit all season long, it is a farce we are expected to play him every game, if he gets a break hey we can play carrick and fletcher in midfield, our 2006/07 midfield, and the year is? 2014
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I more or less agree agree over our defensive options. We'll certainly need at least one CB going into this season - we could probably do with a versatile defender too. But it's worth pointing out that in a 3-5-2, Valencia is Rafael's competition on the right, with Young being Shaw's on the left. It's in the centre where there isn't even the illusion of depth.

Again, a 3-5-2 means on 2 CMs are needed in each match. Fellaini and Cleverly both have something to offer and can improve under LVG, no matter how much hate they get off this forum. Herrera has managed 30+ league games every season for 6 years now, so "what if?" scenarios with him don't worry me too much. Fletcher seems to be getting better - wont ever be the player he was, but he's plenty good enough for cover. Yeah, Carrick is injured, but he generally has very good record and will be back, so that alone doesn't make a desperate scramble for a signing necessary.

Obviously I'd be happy if we got in a couple of quality CBs, a fullback and a midfielder - we all would. I can also see why the club doesn't feel the need to rush in for signings just yet. Not being in Europe means we don't need 2 players in every position - we'll have less congestion and less injury. All we really "need" from the rest of this summer is a quality defender who isn't a crock. Anything past that is a bonus - though I suspect a bonus or two anyway, so that's purely academic.
 
Brophs said:
There's no chance of that happening. Woodward has committed himself, LVG has said he wants signings. It's far more likely we'll make a couple of underwhelming signings.
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Woodward also said a lot of things last summer, I tend not to take what he says as gospel. Also with Hummels pretty much impossible to get, De Vrij and Martins Indi going elsewhere I struggle to see who else we'll get.. Vermaelen? Vlaar? Also when listening to LVG press conference last night he seems to want to use Kagawa in that deeper midfield role and is also a fan of M. Keane and Blackett. I hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if we've finished our business.
 
RedorDead21 said:
Well we could swap clevs and cash for mcCarthy.....Kagawa and cash for a Dortmund player....basically use what we have to prevent us getting our pants pulled down by teams expecting us to break transfer records after Woody acts like an amateur negotiator.
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One of the main men behind our fall from grace last season
 
didz said:
I more or less agree agree over our defensive options. We'll certainly need at least one CB going into this season - we could probably do with a versatile defender too. But it's worth pointing out that in a 3-5-2, Valencia is Rafael's competition on the right, with Young being Shaw's on the left. It's in the centre where there isn't even the illusion of depth.

Again, a 3-5-2 means on 2 CMs are needed in each match. Fellaini and Cleverly both have something to offer and can improve under LVG, no matter how much hate they get off this forum. Herrera has managed 30+ league games every season for 6 years now, so "what if?" scenarios with him don't worry me too much. Fletcher seems to be getting better - wont ever be the player he was, but he's plenty good enough for cover. Yeah, Carrick is injured, but he generally has very good record and will be back, so that alone doesn't make a desperate scramble for a signing necessary.

Obviously I'd be happy if we got in a couple of quality CBs, a fullback and a midfielder - we all would. I can also see why the club doesn't feel the need to rush in for signings just yet. Not being in Europe means we don't need 2 players in every position - we'll have less congestion and less injury. All we really "need" from the rest of this summer is a quality defender who isn't a crock. Anything past that is a bonus - though I suspect a bonus or two anyway, so that's purely academic.
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It is not the fact we have no european football, the first 11 needs improving, let alone fill out the squad. Even in a 352 system, fellaini and cleverly at the highest level are just not good enough, fletcher may get better, but he is in his 30's now a shadow of that player. That means? we are short in that area, carrick is out until October time. Has for fullback area's, no way would I want valencia and young covering shaw and rafeal, I have no idea how the former are still at this club. This is probably why we finished 7th, way too many average players still managing to find a place at this club. Yea have one or 2, but a combination of fletcher cleverly felllaini anderson young and valencia should not be allowed to be part of this squad. If we truly want to get back to where we were, the ruthless aggression must return. There is just way too many problems with the first team, with way too many question marks. At this stage, the required players need bringing in is atleast a CB and especially a CM. Like I say, we cannot go into the new season with just 5 first team defenders, its borderlines suicidal
 
Oneunited26 said:
It is not the fact we have no european football, the first 11 needs improving, let alone fill out the squad. Even in a 352 system, fellaini and cleverly at the highest level are just not good enough, fletcher may get better, but he is in his 30's now a shadow of that player. That means? we are short in that area, carrick is out until October time. Has for fullback area's, no way would I want valencia and young covering shaw and rafeal, I have no idea how the former are still at this club. This is probably why we finished 7th, way too many average players still managing to find a place at this club. Yea have one or 2, but a combination of fletcher cleverly felllaini anderson young and valencia should not be allowed to be part of this squad. If we truly want to get back to where we were, the ruthless aggression must return. There is just way too many problems with the first team, with way too many question marks. At this stage, the required players need bringing in is atleast a CB and especially a CM. Like I say, we cannot go into the new season with just 5 first team defenders, its borderlines suicidal
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I find it impossible to think the club would risk not bringing players for those positions....pretty sure our new sponsors would not have come on board without said assurances.
 
Oneunited26 said:
It is not the fact we have no european football, the first 11 needs improving, let alone fill out the squad. Even in a 352 system, fellaini and cleverly at the highest level are just not good enough, fletcher may get better, but he is in his 30's now a shadow of that player. That means? we are short in that area, carrick is out until October time. Has for fullback area's, no way would I want valencia and young covering shaw and rafeal, I have no idea how the former are still at this club. This is probably why we finished 7th, way too many average players still managing to find a place at this club. Yea have one or 2, but a combination of fletcher cleverly felllaini anderson young and valencia should not be allowed to be part of this squad. If we truly want to get back to where we were, the ruthless aggression must return. There is just way too many problems with the first team, with way too many question marks. At this stage, the required players need bringing in is atleast a CB and especially a CM. Like I say, we cannot go into the new season with just 5 first team defenders, its borderlines suicidal
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Wait, now I'm confused - you've lead with "the first 11 needs improving" and then gone into a rant about our squad players.

Our first 11 does not include Fellaini, Cleverley, Young or Valencia - all of whom are actually good players, by the way. We finished 7th for 2 main reasons - the departure of a Scot and the arrival of a Scot.

Our first 11 is actually very strong:

-------------De Gea---------------
-----Jones--Smalling---Evans------
Rafael-----------------------Shaw
---------Carrick--Herrera----------
-------------Mata-----------------
---------Rooney--RVP--------------

Even with understandable concerns over the quality of the CBs, that is a better first 11 than the one LVG just took to the world cup semi finals. On paper, it features the best front 3 in the league, a strong midfield partnership, good pacey wingbacks and arguably the best keeper in the league. Being able to play our strongest XI more often in the league than ever before is weirdly an advantage.

We've got a lot of quality in the squad behind them - enough to cover in the vast majority of positions. The players you keep mentioning are definitely good enough to be squad players for us. Taking Valencia as an example - he'd play basically every game at a side a rung or two down from us; but you'd be offended by his presence in a few games for us next season? I'm sure you don't need to be told that we can't have a squad of 25 'world class' players, but you're post doesn't seem to reflect that.
 
Underwhelming signings sound like our strategy. Couple of overpriced midrange players. We will then bang the drum about believing in youth development blah...
 
KingMinger22 said:
Underwhelming signings sound like our strategy. Couple of overpriced midrange players. We will then bang the drum about believing in youth development blah...
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Yep I agree. LVG says he needs defenders...and he's dam right considering how many we have lost and a couple of who rather injury prone. However, I don't believe we will see big player signings, more middle of the road decent experienced ones that can do a job on an equal or slightly better footing than the ones we have.
 
Would feel at peace now if we signed Vermaelen and McCarthy or de Jong this week and focus on the start of the season for the rest of the window.
 
togg said:
Yep I agree. LVG says he needs defenders...and he's dam right considering how many we have lost and a couple of who rather injury prone. However, I don't believe we will see big player signings, more middle of the road decent experienced ones that can do a job on an equal or slightly better footing than the ones we have.
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Jones Smalling and Evans with a good injury record could actually become a great defence as is. So perhaps thats the thinking on buying back up not first teamers.....
 
didz said:
Wait, now I'm confused - you've lead with "the first 11 needs improving" and then gone into a rant about our squad players.

Our first 11 does not include Fellaini, Cleverley, Young or Valencia - all of whom are actually good players, by the way. We finished 7th for 2 main reasons - the departure of a Scot and the arrival of a Scot.

Our first 11 is actually very strong:

-------------De Gea---------------
-----Jones--Smalling---Evans------
Rafael-----------------------Shaw
---------Carrick--Herrera----------
-------------Mata-----------------
---------Rooney--RVP--------------

Even with understandable concerns over the quality of the CBs, that is a better first 11 than the one LVG just took to the world cup semi finals. On paper, it features the best front 3 in the league, a strong midfield partnership, good pacey wingbacks and arguably the best keeper in the league. Being able to play our strongest XI more often in the league than ever before is weirdly an advantage.

We've got a lot of quality in the squad behind them - enough to cover in the vast majority of positions. The players you keep mentioning are definitely good enough to be squad players for us. Taking Valencia as an example - he'd play basically every game at a side a rung or two down from us; but you'd be offended by his presence in a few games for us next season? I'm sure you don't need to be told that we can't have a squad of 25 'world class' players, but you're post doesn't seem to reflect that.
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1. Not just the qualities, just look at their injury record and the only player likely to replace them (TV) is also injury prone.

2. What does the dutch squad have to do with any of this?. Yes, he took an average team to the semi finals. That is a good achievement. But this is a totally different league. Why would anyone just assume that just because it worked for a national team it will work for us.

3. We don't know what affected Carrick's form last year. Whether it was Moyes or his age. Plus he is coming back from injury. Not sure how it is going to affect his game, so he is still a big question mark. Just imagine Herrara gets injured in the pre- season, we will have fletcher and cleverley in you MF for the Swansea game, how's that for a strong MF partnership.

4. Good pacey wingbacks?. One of them is injury prone and one is unproven and call unfit by the manager.

5. Most often?? For starters, we cannot play the 11 you suggested for the first two months because of Carrick's injury.

6. Quality in the squad??. No we don't. Fellaini, cleverley, Fletcher, Anderson, Young..Is that what you call quality. Please don't get me started on Valencia. I will respect him when he gets past or atleast tries to get past a fullback. He has basically given up.

There is a lot of question marks over this squad and even the first 11, that have not evene been discussed. for eg.,will RVP and Rooney fit into that system??.
So going into this season with this squad is a disaster.

Ofcourse, we don't need a squad full of WC players, but players coming into replace them have to be atleast of similar quality. We have Fletcher as Carrick's replacement and Cleverley as Herrera's . Evans with Keane? See the gulf in quality??. We have WC Goal keeper and attacking talent. But if we don't have anyone in MF, there is no use. We have been crying out for a WC midfielder for ages now and it looks like its one more window where we don't address it. Just ask yourself this question, which of the top teams in Europe would Carrick and Herrera get into??.
 
Kevin said:
Would feel at peace now if we signed Vermaelen and McCarthy or de Jong this week and focus on the start of the season for the rest of the window.
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I wouldn't, we've arguably never had as money as we have now. We have just hired a well known world class manager, we should be signing players in Vidal and Di Maria range. We need to strengthen properly to get back where we belong - in the CL and top of the EPL. We could probably do without Di Maria with the formation LVG seems to be implementing, but Vidal (or a top top CM of his ilk) is desperately required. We can't go into next season we a injured 33yo in Carrick, an illness recovering fletcher, sideways Clev and Mr elbow Fellaini, we just can't. Know one knows how Herrera will settle in playing in the EPL either.
Defender wise, we need to properly strengthen there aswell, buying an injury prone Vermaelen isn't good enough imo. Rafa, Jones and Evans are all made of glass aswell to some extent.
We'd be a couple if injuries away from a crisis. We need to use our absence from the CL this season to our advantage, pretty much like Liverpool did last season.

Sorry to go on.
 
Browniee said:
I wouldn't, we've arguably never had as money as we have now. We have just hired a well known world class manager, we should be signing players in Vidal and Di Maria range. We need to strengthen properly to get back where we belong - in the CL and top of the EPL. We could probably do without Di Maria with the formation LVG seems to be implementing, but Vidal (or a top top CM of his ilk) is desperately required. We can't go into next season we a injured 33yo in Carrick, an illness recovering fletcher, sideways Clev and Mr elbow Fellaini, we just can't. Know one knows how Herrera will settle in playing in the EPL either.
Defender wise, we need to properly strengthen there aswell, buying an injury prone Vermaelen isn't good enough imo. Rafa, Jones and Evans are all made of glass aswell to some extent.
We'd be a couple if injuries away from a crisis. We need to use our absence from the CL this season to our advantage, pretty much like Liverpool did last season.

Sorry to go on.
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It wont be an advantage in a transfer window when trying to attract the players you expect.
 
bleedred said:
1. Not just the qualities, just look at their injury record and the only player likely to replace them (TV) is also injury prone.

2. What does the dutch squad have to do with any of this?. Yes, he took an average team to the semi finals. That is a good achievement. But this is a totally different league. Why would anyone just assume that just because it worked for a national team it will work for us.

3. We don't know what affected Carrick's form last year. Whether it was Moyes or his age. Plus he is coming back from injury. Not sure how it is going to affect his game, so he is still a big question mark. Just imagine Herrara gets injured in the pre- season, we will have fletcher and cleverley in you MF for the Swansea game, how's that for a strong MF partnership.

4. Good pacey wingbacks?. One of them is injury prone and one is unproven and call unfit by the manager.

5. Most often?? For starters, we cannot play the 11 you suggested for the first two months because of Carrick's injury.

6. Quality in the squad??. No we don't. Fellaini, cleverley, Fletcher, Anderson, Young..Is that what you call quality. Please don't get me started on Valencia. I will respect him when he gets past or atleast tries to get past a fullback. He has basically given up.

There is a lot of question marks over this squad and even the first 11, that have not evene been discussed. for eg.,will RVP and Rooney fit into that system??.
So going into this season with this squad is a disaster.

Ofcourse, we don't need a squad full of WC players, but players coming into replace them have to be atleast of similar quality. We have Fletcher as Carrick's replacement and Cleverley as Herrera's . Evans with Keane? See the gulf in quality??. We have WC Goal keeper and attacking talent. But if we don't have anyone in MF, there is no use. We have been crying out for a WC midfielder for ages now and it looks like its one more window where we don't address it. Just ask yourself this question, which of the top teams in Europe would Carrick and Herrera get into??.
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We are not in Europe so you might as well say what world cup teams would Carrick and Herrera get into. You have been Moyesified. The quality of the backup and younger players is not anything like you think. More than capable of good title challenging cameos if we brought in real quality for the first team. Quality in the squad like Adnan, Welbeck, Zaha, Kagawa, Hernandes etc and more to boot.
 
RedorDead21 said:
It wont be an advantage in a transfer window when trying to attract the players you expect.
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No I fully agree, but even without the CL we should be attracting top players. I'm really scratching my head to who we are after.
 
bleedred said:
1. Not just the qualities, just look at their injury record and the only player likely to replace them (TV) is also injury prone.

2. What does the dutch squad have to do with any of this?. Yes, he took an average team to the semi finals. That is a good achievement. But this is a totally different league. Why would anyone just assume that just because it worked for a national team it will work for us.

3. We don't know what affected Carrick's form last year. Whether it was Moyes or his age. Plus he is coming back from injury. Not sure how it is going to affect his game, so he is still a big question mark. Just imagine Herrara gets injured in the pre- season, we will have fletcher and cleverley in you MF for the Swansea game, how's that for a strong MF partnership.

4. Good pacey wingbacks?. One of them is injury prone and one is unproven and call unfit by the manager.

5. Most often?? For starters, we cannot play the 11 you suggested for the first two months because of Carrick's injury.

6. Quality in the squad??. No we don't. Fellaini, cleverley, Fletcher, Anderson, Young..Is that what you call quality. Please don't get me started on Valencia. I will respect him when he gets past or atleast tries to get past a fullback. He has basically given up.
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1. They'll be playing regularly, but without fixture congestion. That means they'll be match fit, without being overworked - that should result in less injuries. Also, we don't know how we're gonna deal with the defensive issues yet - Vermaelen has been linked heavily, yeah, but with it taking this long you might wonder. I agree that we need a defender and I've a few in mind that I'd prefer over Vermaelen, but it's not all doom and gloom at all.

2. What it has to do with it is obvious - his system of defending works, even when using lower quality defenders against higher quality attackers.

3. So we don't know why he played poorly last season and so we should assume that the reason was just that he became shit? This is obviously a null argument, because it could be trotted out for every single one of our players. Should we replace the entire squad? I've addressed the "what if Herrera gets injured" thing in a post above by pointing to his good fitness record. It's generally a pretty poor way to evaluate a squad (saying "what if xyz gets injured" for every position), because what's your solution gonna be? "We just spent £30m on Herrera, but we better go and spend £30m on someone else just incase his fitness suddenly gets much worse or he gets a major injury"?

4. Yes they are good and yes they are pacey. I've addressed injuries previously. Also LVG hasn't just labelled Shaw unfit, he is actively working to improve his fitness. This is a good sign, not a bad one.

5. First two months has what? 6? Maybe 7 league games? There are 38 league games in a season. So yes, more often than not, Carrick will play. This is because when you take 7 away from 38, the number remaining is still bigger than half of 38 (31 rather than 19) thus constituting what is called a majority.

Not that that was even the point I was making. It is a rule of thumb that a team can play its first 11 in the league more often than they could if they had more cup matches to worry about. Would you like to disagree with this point rather than straw-manning?

6. Fellaini, Young and Valencia have proven that they can be very dangerous players against premier league opposition - they did this by being key players at other PL clubs. Valencia was crucial in a CL winning season for us ffs. The hate some of our squad players receive is insane. They can play better than they have done in the last year and we have a manager who can actually get them to. If you can't see that, poor you I guess.

Why are people mentioning Anderson btw? He's basically gone.


There is a lot of question marks over this squad and even the first 11, that have not evene been discussed. for eg.,will RVP and Rooney fit into that system??.
So going into this season with this squad is a disaster.

Ofcourse, we don't need a squad full of WC players, but players coming into replace them have to be atleast of similar quality. We have Fletcher as Carrick's replacement and Cleverley as Herrera's . Evans with Keane? See the gulf in quality??. We have WC Goal keeper and attacking talent. But if we don't have anyone in MF, there is no use. We have been crying out for a WC midfielder for ages now and it looks like its one more window where we don't address it. Just ask yourself this question, which of the top teams in Europe would Carrick and Herrera get into??.

bleedred said:
There is a lot of question marks over this squad and even the first 11, that have not evene been discussed. for eg.,will RVP and Rooney fit into that system??.
So going into this season with this squad is a disaster.

Ofcourse, we don't need a squad full of WC players, but players coming into replace them have to be atleast of similar quality. We have Fletcher as Carrick's replacement and Cleverley as Herrera's . Evans with Keane? See the gulf in quality??. We have WC Goal keeper and attacking talent. But if we don't have anyone in MF, there is no use. We have been crying out for a WC midfielder for ages now and it looks like its one more window where we don't address it. Just ask yourself this question, which of the top teams in Europe would Carrick and Herrera get into??.
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The example of Rooney/RVP you just gave is another null argument, as regards the personnel in the squad. Are you suggesting we solve this supposed problem by selling one of them and bringing in another striker? Because that would leave you with the same problem with different names; e.g; "will Cavani and RVP fit into the system." It's an even worse argument when you consider that RVP already has played in this system well, and Rooney is doing just fine so far on tour.

There's nothing wrong with Fletcher stepping in to replace Carrick now and again. Fletcher has experience that we couldn't buy and looks to be getting back to a very good level of fitness. It's the nature of a "backup" to replace the first-teamer when they are unavailable, which isn't as constant an occurrence as you seem to think. It seems you believe that Fletcher, Fellaini and Cleverley just aren't good enough to win games in this league, when they've been doing it for years. The quality of the squad players is very high for squad players. As for the first XI, we have acted to address our midfield problems - we have signed Herrera.

On the defenders, I've already agreed that we lack depth here. On the plus side, we have seen LVG get a lot out of defenders who aren't near the top, so Blacket or Keane could prove to be decent enough backups alongside the current first-teamers and a new signing or two.

As to your last question - how is it relevant? We need to beat what's in front of us this season, and that does not include the continental elite. The Carrick-Herrera partnership is one I'm really looking forward to. Since I'm not wallowing in an anhedonia-driven moan, the stability of Carrick and the dynamism of Herrera - both quality on the ball - gets me looking forward to this season.
 
didz said:
1. They'll be playing regularly, but without fixture congestion. That means they'll be match fit, without being overworked - that should result in less injuries. Also, we don't know how we're gonna deal with the defensive issues yet - Vermaelen has been linked heavily, yeah, but with it taking this long you might wonder. I agree that we need a defender and I've a few in mind that I'd prefer over Vermaelen, but it's not all doom and gloom at all.
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So the injuries for them in the previous years were because they were overworked??.. I mean we had 5 defenders for 2 positions in the previous years and yet they got injured. Now we have 3 for 3 and they will not be overworked??.. Brilliant logic.

3. So we don't know why he played poorly last season and so we should assume that the reason was just that he became shit? This is obviously a null argument, because it could be trotted out for every single one of our players. Should we replace the entire squad? I've addressed the "what if Herrera gets injured" thing in a post above by pointing to his good fitness record. It's generally a pretty poor way to evaluate a squad (saying "what if xyz gets injured" for every position), because what's your solution gonna be? "We just spent £30m on Herrera, but we better go and spend £30m on someone else just incase his fitness suddenly gets much worse or he gets a major injury"?
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I never said he became shit. I said there are question marks whether he will get back to his 2012 best. Regards Herrera, a player with good fitness record doesn't mean its he is going to stay fit in the future. Of course, you have to assume that situation where players get injured. So by your logic, any team can go into a season with 15 players who have a injury free record??. Yes, we need one more high quality midfielder because of the fact that we have had serious problems over the past 6-7 years and we have failed to address it every time. If you don't think so, you are just in denial.

5. First two months has what? 6? Maybe 7 league games? There are 38 league games in a season. So yes, more often than not, Carrick will play. This is because when you take 7 away from 38, the number remaining is still bigger than half of 38 (31 rather than 19) thus constituting what is called a majority.
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Again, you are just assuming he will play all the 31 games, when you have no idea how his recovery is going to be.

Not that that was even the point I was making. It is a rule of thumb that a team can play its first 11 in the league more often than they could if they had more cup matches to worry about. Would you like to disagree with this point rather than straw-manning?
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Ofcourse, If the players stay injury free we can play the same team every week. But we have players who are injury prone throughout he squad. Do you agree with that?. Smalling, Rafael, Jones, RVP, and even Rooney picks up injuries every once in a while. Its funny because you argue that Herrera has an injury free record ,so he will play most games, yet you don't take into account the injury records for other players.

6. Fellaini, Young and Valencia have proven that they can be very dangerous players against premier league opposition - they did this by being key players at other PL clubs. Valencia was crucial in a CL winning season for us ffs. The hate some of our squad players receive is insane. They can play better than they have done in the last year and we have a manager who can actually get them to. If you can't see that, poor you I guess.
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When did that happen?.I must have been in coma during that time. Performing at mid table clubs is totally different to what we expect here, unless you are expecting us to be mid table again. Young and Valencia have been poor even under Fergie. They had nothing to do with "Moyesification".

Why are people mentioning Anderson btw? He's basically gone.
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He is still on our payroll, is he not. Once he is gone, I will stop mentioning him.

The example of Rooney/RVP you just gave is another null argument, as regards the personnel in the squad. Are you suggesting we solve this supposed problem by selling one of them and bringing in another striker? Because that would leave you with the same problem with different names; e.g; "will Cavani and RVP fit into the system." It's an even worse argument when you consider that RVP already has played in this system well, and Rooney is doing just fine so far on tour.
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No, I never said that. Nor did I ever suggest a solution. I said, that is a probable issue which no one has considered yet. Yes, both seem to individually work fine in the system. But they have never played together in the system. And RVP in the holland system had Robben supporting him, Who is totally different to Rooney.

There's nothing wrong with Fletcher stepping in to replace Carrick now and again. Fletcher has experience that we couldn't buy and looks to be getting back to a very good level of fitness. It's the nature of a "backup" to replace the first-teamer when they are unavailable, which isn't as constant an occurrence as you seem to think. It seems you believe that Fletcher, Fellaini and Cleverley just aren't good enough to win games in this league, when they've been doing it for years. The quality of the squad players is very high for squad players. As for the first XI, we have acted to address our midfield problems - we have signed Herrera.
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Cleverley and Fellaini??.. Seriously??. The quality of the squad is poor compared to City and Chelsea. If you are happy accepting that, then its fine.

P.S : I don't want to derail this thread. If you want to reply back. Post it in the below thread, which is a bit relevant to what we are discussing.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/good-enough-yet.393311/
 
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RedorDead21 said:
We are not in Europe so you might as well say what world cup teams would Carrick and Herrera get into. You have been Moyesified. The quality of the backup and younger players is not anything like you think. More than capable of good title challenging cameos if we brought in real quality for the first team. Quality in the squad like Adnan, Welbeck, Zaha, Kagawa, Hernandes etc and more to boot.
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Which of them can play in a midfield two??..

All of them are attacking options and are very less likely to feature given that RVP, Mata and Rooney will be first choice. I never complained about our attack. We need defensive and midfield quality.
 
Do you think other big clubs like Madrid even have a word for transfer muppetry since they tend to actually get the players they want pretty quickly?
 
i think its pretty obvious we aren't finished in the transfer market

Van Gaal has openly spoken about remodelling the squad and addressing the fact it is imbalanced....

Woodward has more or less said that new signings are planned - watch this space - after last summer he'd be opening himself up to be ridiculed again with statements like that had we no more signings planned.

the money is clearly available and Van Gaal has seemed underwhelmed about some parts of the squad - refering the the team as broken

it would be inconceivable to go into the season with the current squad and I'd happily bet we make at least two more signings with even more heading out the door.

Patience muppets......it's only 9pm in the nightclub and the hotties are still arriving - the time to worry is 3am when only the stinkers are left like Fellaini
 
My inner muppet checked The Guardian website this morning and was disappointed to once again not see us signing anyone. My inner reasonable poster tells myself that any signings will not be done until after the club return from tour so I need to just relax.
 
bleedred said:
Which of them can play in a midfield two??..

All of them are attacking options and are very less likely to feature given that RVP, Mata and Rooney will be first choice. I never complained about our attack. We need defensive and midfield quality.
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I think we could offload one or 2 to balance the books, fellaini looks a shoe in to leave, janazaj will be getting more games which I feel in this new system could be cover for mata, but I do feel I do not think we need kagwa, out of janazaj zaha kagwa hernandez and welbeck, kagwa possibly zaha is the only ones I feel we do not need. If LVG thinks we can go into the new season with 5 first choice defenders, I am sure he is going to clear the decks in the midfield, zaha could be the one to stay

In this new 352 system, seems like young and valencia are going to be cover for shaw and rafeal, so the ones to follow ferdinand vidic evra and butner indicates anderson fellaini and hernandez
 
bleedred said:
So the injuries for them in the previous years were because they were overworked??.. I mean we had 5 defenders for 2 positions in the previous years and yet they got injured. Now we have 3 for 3 and they will not be overworked??.. Brilliant logic.



I never said he became shit. I said there are question marks whether he will get back to his 2012 best. Regards Herrera, a player with good fitness record doesn't mean its he is going to stay fit in the future. Of course, you have to assume that situation where players get injured. So by your logic, any team can go into a season with 15 players who have a injury free record??. Yes, we need one more high quality midfielder because of the fact that we have had serious problems over the past 6-7 years and we have failed to address it every time. If you don't think so, you are just in denial.



Again, you are just assuming he will play all the 31 games, when you have no idea how his recovery is going to be.



Ofcourse, If the players stay injury free we can play the same team every week. But we have players who are injury prone throughout he squad. Do you agree with that?. Smalling, Rafael, Jones, RVP, and even Rooney picks up injuries every once in a while. Its funny because you argue that Herrera has an injury free record ,so he will play most games, yet you don't take into account the injury records for other players.



When did that happen?.I must have been in coma during that time. Performing at mid table clubs is totally different to what we expect here, unless you are expecting us to be mid table again. Young and Valencia have been poor even under Fergie. They had nothing to do with "Moyesification".



He is still on our payroll, is he not. Once he is gone, I will stop mentioning him.



No, I never said that. Nor did I ever suggest a solution. I said, that is a probable issue which no one has considered yet. Yes, both seem to individually work fine in the system. But they have never played together in the system. And RVP in the holland system had Robben supporting him, Who is totally different to Rooney.



Cleverley and Fellaini??.. Seriously??. The quality of the squad is poor compared to City and Chelsea. If you are happy accepting that, then its fine.

P.S : I don't want to derail this thread. If you want to reply back. Post it in the below thread, which is a bit relevant to what we are discussing.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/good-enough-yet.393311/
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It all depends if we get vidal, now if united sign vidal and another defender that is a very good summer for the club, at the minute the summer has been above average summer because of how many gaping holes in our squad that need shorting out. Shaw and herrera in my eyes, are signings to make up for last summers mess of a summer

The one's I expect to leave to add up the current departures, ferdinand vidic evra butner fellaini anderson nani hernandez

If I was a betting man, that is the ones I think will leave this simmer. United add a CB and a CM, uniteds pool of 16 17 players looks strong if we look at the following
DDG rafeal jones smalling evans ?? shaw herrera ?? carrick janazaj mata rooney RVP welbeck

I look at that pool of players, that is a strong foundation in place, if expected vidal and another CB is pulled off, united will one of hell of a foundation in place if we pull those 2 transfers off.

In my view we need 5 players, the 2 hopefully coming in this summer, the CM and a CB, and a further 2 defenders and a midfielder. But currently the engine room is still one signing away from seeing us become really strong in that midfield area. United pull the vidal transfer off, united have a midfield triangle of mata vidal herrera that has everything to go toe to toe with the PL elite. That midfield has legs to press teams, can tackle, can create, and can hold onto the ball. But unless that CM signing is pulled off, we are going to be lagging.
 
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