Not taking a side in this discussion but Chelsea literally just did that.
Manchester United Summer Transfer Window 2015: What do we still need?
- Thread starter Devil may care
- Start date
- Status
Not taking a side in this discussion but Chelsea literally just did that.
When?
Yep sorry, knew that but was too lazy to change my post once I had written it.
Think he's referencing 04/05. Drogba, Robben, Cech, Carvalho, Ferriera all joined that summer.
Only Costa and Fabregas have been first choice starters though to be fair.
Not really the same. Cuadrado was only signed in winter window, Drogba for the bench, Luis hasn't made an impact.
So only Cesc and Costa played regularly
Drogba, Remy, Luis and Cuadrado didn't play. That's an awful example.
Actually Chelsea are a prime example of how 2-3 key signings can transform a team. Over 12 months Matic Fabregas and Costa transformed their team.
That's what we should be looking to replicate. Two-three top class signings that transform us.
If City make massive improvments buying in Pogba and Sterling etc 
and Arsenal continue to improve getting in Cech for next year, while Mourinho gets his standard 80+ points a season, is it even worth us spending 200mill? even then I doubt we'd win the Premier League,
In such a circumstance I'd rather we buy younger players (like say... Stones instead of a Hummels) along with blooding our own promising youngsters to progress and grow as a young team over the next 1-2 years? rather than trying to compete by spunking extravagant fees and try to buy immediate success next year.
I don't know, perhaps I'm talking to myself.
and Arsenal continue to improve getting in Cech for next year, while Mourinho gets his standard 80+ points a season, is it even worth us spending 200mill? even then I doubt we'd win the Premier League,In such a circumstance I'd rather we buy younger players (like say... Stones instead of a Hummels) along with blooding our own promising youngsters to progress and grow as a young team over the next 1-2 years? rather than trying to compete by spunking extravagant fees and try to buy immediate success next year.
I don't know, perhaps I'm talking to myself.
Not playing or not making an impact doesn't figure into it. Any player can fail, that doesn't mean that they weren't intended as first team players which they probably were. Besides out of the players qouted earlier; Clyne, Shneiderlin, Depay, Firmino etc aren't certain to be automatically starting for us either.
And Chelsea a prime example? Out of 10 players purchased by the club the 13/14 season only 3 remain at the club. And out of the 7 players bought this year Another 4 look likely to leave. They´re transfer policy is basically throw alot of shit on the wall and let's hope some stick!
Last edited:
If City make massive improvments buying in Pogba and Sterling etc
In such a circumstance I'd rather we buy younger players (like say... Stones instead of a Hummels) along with blooding our own promising youngsters to progress and grow as a young team over the next 1-2 years? rather than trying to compete by spunking extravagant fees and try to buy immediate success next year.
I don't know, perhaps I'm talking to myself.
There's no one way or another. We won't turn into Gaalacticos, I don't believe that. Neither do I think that he'll only buy youngsters, he will buy a good blend of talent and experience so that every position is double covered plus lots of multifunctional players and spots for the youth team to fill. Van Gaal does want to win something before he leaves, a few short term signings are ok to stay competative.
He had only 1 rushed transfer window so he still has a bit of work left in his overhaul, he mentioned the balance alot. This will have to be adressed. My guess is 6 positions: GK, RB, CB, CM, ST, Memphis Depay.
You're mistaking a targeted approach for a blunder bus approach merely because of numbers. Drogba, Remy and Luis were literally "If x gets injured at least we have y" signings.
No team wins the league whilst changing half of their team. Obviously teams win the league after signing 2-3 key players (along with 2-3 irrelevants), but that isn't the same. Drogba, Remy and Luis could have been me, my mate Dave and his mad mate Rick, they'd have still won the league.
We could promote Mcnair, Pereira and Blackett and sign Hummels, Bale and Schweinsteiger. It wouldn't be the former 3 that had any effect, it'd be the latter three turning a good squad into a great one.
I definitely Believe that Luis was intended as a potential starter with Azpilicueta moving to the right. And as I said the likes of Clyne and Firmino would be exactly "if x gets injured..."-signings but also rotation options which is also needed. Potential key players in this scenario being Depay, Schneiderlin and Otamendi and Gundogan in parenthesis. For a team who strives to compete in multiple competitions and at the same time aiming to win some of them you have to have the option of 2 nearly equally good players in every position. We can't cover this with "2-3 key signings", we need to sign for numbers also wether that means we win the league or not.
I fundamentally disagree with the comparison. Three first choice players in Fabregas, Costa and Matic over a 9 month period (replacing 3 key positions) is nothing like replacing your first choice RB, a first choice winger, 2 first choice midfielders and a central defender (Plus probably a goalkeeper) inside 2 months.
One is strengthening 3 key areas to change a good team into a great one, one is replacing more than half a team. The former is minor surgery that often results in silverware, the latter is major surgery that would lead to yet another season in transition.
Mourinho could have easily signed 6 player's in 2013 in order to revamp his squad. Instead he bought a couple of key players in season 1 and a few more in season 2. He knew that's how you win trophies.
I said that we wouldn't be though, did you really read my post? I said that out of those six maybe 4 would be starters at the most.
And you're making it sound as if Mourinho bought like 4-6 players over the last two windows when he in fact has bought 17, four out of Those I'll exclude as they're youngsters but apart from that he's gotten 4 key players out of 13 transfers. And Mourinho didn't have to rebuild his team the way we have. He could start his fine-tuning right off the bat with a Foundation already laid, Van Gaal had no choice but to replace Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra (Buttner also leaving leaving us with no one at LB) while also trying to make signings to improve us. We're still playing Catch up and it's going to take Another couple of windows to get us set IMO, buying less players won't get us where we need to be faster, we need the numbers to compete on all fronts.
Clyne, Schneiderlin, Lloris, Otamendi, Gundogan and Depay would not be squad options. They'd all expect to play 40 games a season, which is completely different to Luis, Drogba, Remy, Salah, Van Ginkel, Eto'o, Schwarzer, Zouma etc. Using Chelsea as an example of a team that uses the blunderbus approach is completely false.
Whether we need to buy half a new team is a different question. I personally think 3 more key signings and we're set, but others who want us to make 5-7 changes to our first XI have to accept another year of transition. Your example of Chelsea in the last 2 years as a team that signed a ton of players and got instant success is a disingenuous one. They targeted 5 players over 2 years who would slot straight in and make a difference (along with a load of irrelavant fringe players). It'd be like us buying Di Maria, Herrera, Shaw and then Depay and Otamendi.
We can't compare ourselves to Chelsea they were a long way ahead of us last season and had a much stronger foundation to build from. Courthois, fabregas, matic and Costa were all required for their first team and their squad needed cover as well so zouma, Luis, remy and drogba all came in as well. I think that is pretty good business only luis fell short of what was expected of him.
I don't see us repeating their success no matter how many new players we sign unless we get a really top class player like bale, verratti or pogba and that isn't happening. We need 6-7 players, we can't and won't get them all this summer but we need to get as many as possible because otherwise we will be buying a lot of players again next season, maybe a young player could fill one of those holes but I don't think there is anyone good enough to do that at the moment. More transition is the only way forward and getting in players early is vital.
I wasn't comparing us to Chelsea. I was pointing out how completely inaccurate the post I quoted was in saying Chelsea literally just bought half a new team. They did nothing of the sort. They bought 5 first team players over 3 transfer windows. That is hugely different than buying 5 first team player's in one transfer window. His point was that you can buy half a new team and win the League, but the foundations that his conclusion was based on were rocky at best.
You either fall into 2 camps: the camp that believes we need to add maybe 3 more key players and we'll be successful if they're the right players; or you believe we need 6-7 new first team players and have to accept another transitional season bedding them into the first time. I personally believe we are a CB, CM and RB away from having a great squad and don't subscribe to believing we need half a new team. When Mourinho took over Chelsea were 14 points behind the PL winners, we are currently 17 behind, which isn't too dissimilar. If our next 3 transfer windows combined sees us signing 4 key first team players like Mourinho did, we'll be winning the title.
CB, RB and CM this Summer (in addition to Depay). Striker and CM next Summer. That'll have us very competitive next season and winning trophies the season after.
Your comparing us with before mourinho took over though, after a season in charge he had Chelsea within four points of the title, LVG has us 17 behind and that was my point we can't compare ourselves to Chelsea because they were a better side who were much closer to winning the league. We are a long way off and the likelyhood of us winning the title next is very small because too many changes will unsettle us but we simply won't be good enough unless we make 3 extremely good signings who all settle and that is very difficult to do as well.
Also have to take into consideration our most influential outfield player is nearly 34 and can't play every game and we are selling our best and only genuine world class player so 3 players won't do it unless we get an exceptional forward because they can paper over cracks.
I think we will sign Jasper Cillessen as goalkeeper, Otamendi for defence, and hopefully Firmino for Midfield. Plus maybe a striker and another defender. So 5 more players on the way
Now that De Gea's move to Madrid is all but sealed, we should definitely look more closely for a term option at the keeper position (even if Valdes ends up starting for a season). Someone who's going under the radar a bit, and not really being linked to United is Yann Sommer. Not the most imposing keeper by any means, about as much as Casillas when it comes to height (although we have seen relatively shorter keepers succeed in the league in recent seasons). But his overall skillset meshes well with Van Gaal and Hoek's requirements - instinctive shot-stopper (both from distance and close range), has a good command of the box and organizes the backline well to go with requisite distribution ability (huge plus under Louis), really composed - ice in his veins in pressure situations, experienced international with 11 caps for Switzerland, reached the U-21 European Championship final against a Spanish team that had Herrera, De Gea, Mata and was named in the team of the tournament, to go with 40+ Champions League (played against United for Basel) and Europa League matches, and of a decent age at 26.
TBH I'd much rather him than someone like Lloris. Even though the latter has played in England, Bundesliga is no scrub league and Monchengladbach have the 2nd best defensive record behind Bayern with 26 goals conceded, plus Sommer has fewer mental lapses. Statistics are often deceptive, but that along-with watching him play kind of validates his quality, and overall he tallies well against Oblak or Lloris :
Some of his best saves from the 2014/ 2015 season :
TBH I'd much rather him than someone like Lloris. Even though the latter has played in England, Bundesliga is no scrub league and Monchengladbach have the 2nd best defensive record behind Bayern with 26 goals conceded, plus Sommer has fewer mental lapses. Statistics are often deceptive, but that along-with watching him play kind of validates his quality, and overall he tallies well against Oblak or Lloris :
Some of his best saves from the 2014/ 2015 season :
Marc Bartra has a 12m euro release clause until July 1st.
We should be all over that.
We should be all over that.
You have to laugh at these media allegations . New sensationalist headlines every day. They ain't got a clue what is happening. The link to Gaitan is bordering funny now and the links to Aguero and Henderson yesterday took the biscuit.Woody is in the Costa Del Sol, LVG is in the Algarve etc.
What I will say is that if we do not buy proven quality we will come up short again and struggle particularly in Europe.
What I will say is that if we do not buy proven quality we will come up short again and struggle particularly in Europe.
To be honest, feck knows what we need. We look so incohesive compared to other top sides, with too many 'big name' players looking average to poor. It is hard to see us needing anything other than a complete overhaul, which is unlikely to happen, so all we can do is hope and pray that LVG and Woodward get it right.
Last two seasons, we have looked noticably behind most top sides in just about every area except goalkeeper, which we are about to lose to one of those top teams.
Last two seasons, we have looked noticably behind most top sides in just about every area except goalkeeper, which we are about to lose to one of those top teams.
We need a goalie or at least a backup to Valdes, a proper RB, a CB who is an organiser and a leader, a midfielder to cover and then take over from Carrick, a partner for Herrera in the midfield and a striker. A bit of an overhaul as you say.
Lloris
Fabinho
Otamendi
Schneiderlin
Firmino
..?
Fabinho
Otamendi
Schneiderlin
Firmino
..?
We already have Memphis, so depends how he would use him and Firmino. Depends if ADM is staying.
Obviously
, 10th August will see the signing of Kane. With Depay included, I think that could well be spot on.EDIT; Maybe LVG will go with Cillessen
Last edited:
Pretty confident he will. Plenty of games next season so with 3/4 attacking positions depending on the role of the 3rd midfielder I think we could accommodate Firmino in our squad, his versatility would be an asset.
I've seen ADm quoted as saying he will be staying next season, With another fast winger to play with (Depay) and a solid midfield & defense behind him (hopefully Schneiderlin, Gundogan and Otamendi are en route) he should thrive next season.
Christ...if we ended up with those 3 I'd be over the moon.
Personally I think Schneiderlin and Otamendi can be ours right now if we pay the money...I think we are actually waiting to see if we can convince players like Schweinsteiger and Hummels to come to OT first before pulling the trigger on Schneiderlin and Otamendi....which could backfire on us and leaving us with the option "C" on our list for both.
I totally agree pal.
Lloris
Otamendi
Fabinho
Schweinsteiger/Schneiderlin/Nainggolan
Vidal/Pogba
Benzema/Lewandowski/Kane
Otamendi
Fabinho
Schweinsteiger/Schneiderlin/Nainggolan
Vidal/Pogba
Benzema/Lewandowski/Kane
I think we'll end up with:
Otamendi
Fabinho/Clyne
Schneiderlin
Gundogan
(w Depay already signed)
Seems right, with Lloris also coming here. I don't think our pursuit in Benzema or Kane will amount to anything serious.
Benzema does not wish to play for us and expressly stated as much and Kane would cost too much (at least £50m) for someone that is relatively unproven. I would play Rooney up top and give him the service he needs and he will deliver.
However if RVP is off that leaves Rooney and Wilson to compete for the ST role...we will need another ST who can play backup ...maybe that's why we are after Firmino?
Ottamendi
Schniederlin
a right back
Bale
Would be good.
Add in a striker (Kane would be an exciting gamble), and that would be near perfect.
Unfortunately, the key player in that list looks unattainable...
Schniederlin
a right back
Bale
Would be good.
Add in a striker (Kane would be an exciting gamble), and that would be near perfect.
Unfortunately, the key player in that list looks unattainable...
I don't think Firmino is LvG's cup of tea for the ST position, and i reckon RvP will leave only if we buy a new striker. Rooney, RvP and Wilson is not bad options, but it certainly isn't perfect either.
.....................................Cech
Fabinho........Otamendi.......Varane.......Shaw...
...................Carrick.........Gundogan.....
...............................Herrera...........................
Di Maria.............Rooney.............Depay
Fabinho........Otamendi.......Varane.......Shaw...
...................Carrick.........Gundogan.....
...............................Herrera...........................
Di Maria.............Rooney.............Depay
- Status