Manchester United Summer Transfer Window 2015: What do we still need?
- Thread starter Devil may care
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People seem so keen to not have Valencia play as RB that they are ignoring Clyne's deficiencies defensively.
I hope the 3 are Memphis, Gundogan and Laporte.
I hope the 3 are Memphis, Gundogan and Laporte.
Probably the same way Benatia is still on a plane to Old Trafford.
Gundogan is looking back to his best recently and at 24 would still be a great signing, we need a box to box playmaker IMO and he is the option that I think is more obtainable than Verratti or Koke.
I can't agree on De Jong mate, there are at least 6 better, younger, more talented CM's that can do what he does and are definitely gettable. De Jong has been rotting in the OAP home that is Milan and doesn't have the legs for the PL anymore, he'd be a thuggish liability.
That would be a big worry for me. Blind and Carrick are not blessed with speed without adding De Jong as an option. We would be seriously slow. He would definitely suffer at his age in the PL.
Oh, no doubt we can sign better, younger, hungrier players. But I was talking about depth options. Between additions to the strikeforce, wide attacking midfield and defense, there are only so many players you can sign in one window. Having someone like De Jong who can make up the numbers incase of injury to the first and second choice (in a way that Fletcher was supposed to do) and perform at a respectable level would be an added luxury, especially when he will cost us nothing in terms of transfer fee and is well versed with the manager's ideology (something that can be beneficial on the training pitch). We can't hope to solve all the deficiencies in the squad in just one window, that's just unrealistic. So having someone like him who can act as an optional bridge from the bench for a couple of seasons could be vital, especially with additional Champion's League games (if we finish in the Top 4 that is).
This could be the benefit of retaining Van Gaal regardless of current feeling of some fans. He's looked at what we need, deals are in place, and they are his personal selections. Just hope they all click...
Exactly, people complain about the lack of pace and mobility when it comes to Fellaini, these days De Jong isn't much better.
Depth can only go so far though, if we got in Gundogan and lets just say any one of Schneiderlin/Xhaka/Kondogbia/Nainngolaan/L. Bender//Allan/Saul, and add them to Blind, Herrera, Carrick and Fellaini that is more than enough options without adding a guy who most likely can't cut it in the PL anymore and is just as limited as Fellaini.
Did De Jong cut it in the PL when he was younger for City? I can't actually remember.
He was ok but they shipped him off when they won the PL title as he was not important to the team, that was 3 years ago and he's had a bad injury since then as well.
TBH I don't agree and saying that he is not a better option at defensive midfield than some of the players mentioned is doing a great disservice to his ability. I watch him every week for Milan since they're my second favorite team after United, and honestly I would take De Jong over Fellaini any day of the week as a defensive midfielder and, I'd take him over Blind too as a defensive midfielder for the Premier League.
He is still at a decent age at 30 - that is hardly ancient by any measure, isn't a shit-house technically despite popular opinion, is a dogged wall in front of the central defensive pairing and has much better mobility than either Blind or Carrick. In the right system he can be a very effective squad player. Even if we sign a new defensive midfielder, we could be a couple of injuries away from having none at all and exposing our team's weak underbelly. How would it hurt us to acquire a player who has loads of experience, is still quite good as a bit part player who does the dirty work and perhaps most importantly, will have no transfer fee ?
Over Fellaini though is unlikely to be an option, we'd need to find a buyer for him and I don't see many queuing up to take him, plus he's younger and settled in this league, he hasn't been blunted by 3 years and an injury in a much slower league. I wouldn't personally take him over Blind, I'd prefer a reader and passer over a thug type of DM.
The thing is you are talking squad here but 6 CM's for 3 roles is surely more than enough, we don't need to add him on wages that would see him spending more of his time playing in the reserves. If our bench really needed him regularly then we'd be in the exact same situation we are in this season IMO, too much average within the squad. I can't see a case for him when we could have Carrick/Blind/Herrera/Gundogan/Allan/Fellaini as our 6 CM options.
I would take him over Fellaini every-time (De Jong would be an upgrade for 2-3 season and we can bugger Marouane off to whatever a club is willing to pay for him - utterly pointless footballer). Even Blind and this is coming from someone who rated Blind before the World Cup when a lot of posters who rate him highly now were opposed to his signing or erroneously presumed he's only a left back. De Jong is still at a decent age and a good substitute defensive midfielder in the right system especially against big teams where you need a more vacuum cleaner type of player - there is a reason why Van Gaal made him one of fixtures in that position for the Dutch national team.
He is just as good a reader of the game as Blind, people associate him with the player that he was at City but that's unfair, since he has matured a lot since then and has become very nuanced in terms of awareness. Stats don't convey the whole picture but they are indicative in some sense and if we compare Blind, De Jong and say Allan and De Rossi (both from the same league) in terms of defensive contribution, De Jong is better than all 3 or atleast as good in almost every category :
De Jong's overall performances over the last couple of season have been almost as good as De Rossi's, but that gets overlooked because he plays for a very poor Milan team. He would be the kind of unfashioable signing that Larsson was for us who had some impact both on and off the pitch, or maybe Lampard is for City - in the sense that although De Jong isn't as good as Frank in terms of scoring goals, he is a good option from the bench who can follow instructions and do what is required of him. It never hurts to add a good, experienced player in an area of weakness even if we sign other players because for all one knows, one of the more expensive signings may struggle to adapt to Van Gaal's ideology whereas De Jong is well versed with it.
De Jong on a free (?) would be a no-brainer. Premier league proven, you know what you're getting, played under van Gaal, no issues with mentality or 'desire'.
I would take him over Fellaini every-time (De Jong would be an upgrade for 2-3 season and we can bugger Marouane off to whatever a club is willing to pay for him - utterly pointless footballer). Even Blind and this is coming from someone who rated Blind before the World Cup when a lot of posters who rate him highly now were opposed to his signing or erroneously presumed he's only a left back. De Jong is still at a decent age and a good substitute defensive midfielder in the right system especially against big teams where you need a more vacuum cleaner type of player - there is a reason why Van Gaal made him one of fixtures in that position for the Dutch national team.
He is just as good a reader of the game as Blind, people associate him with the player that he was at City but that's unfair, since he has matured a lot since then and has become very nuanced in terms of awareness. Stats don't convey the whole picture but they are indicative in some sense and if we compare Blind, De Jong and say Allan and De Rossi (both from the same league) in terms of defensive contribution, De Jong is better than all 3 or atleast as good in almost every category :
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De Jong's overall performances over the last couple of season have been almost as good as De Rossi's, but that gets overlooked because he plays for a very poor Milan team. He would be the kind of unfashioable signing that Larsson was for us who had some impact both on and off the pitch, or maybe Lampard is for City - in the sense that although De Jong isn't as good as Frank in terms of scoring goals, he is a good option from the bench who can follow instructions and do what is required of him. It never hurts to add a good, experienced player in an area of weakness even if we sign other players because for all one knows, one of the more expensive signings may struggle to adapt to Van Gaal's ideology whereas De Jong is well versed with it.
We'd have to find a buyer for Fellaini though which is not an easy thing to do, and LvG seems to like him as a last ditch option up top. To be honest I hate stats based arguments mate, football is something I think has too many differences per game to give stats the correct context from which to judge, they are a collective mesh that don't take into account the fine margins of the sport on any given day. For instance if you are a fullback in this league and being compared to another fullback, but in your games you face Hazard and Sanchez, but you are being compared to a fullback who played the same number of games but not against those 2 teams or those players are missing when you did play them, that's the type of context that can skew stats and shows the fact that without a match by match contextual analysis they are just not accurate enough to make a fair case.
The bottom line is I admit, I loathe him, utterly detest him as a player and don't want him in a United shirt under any circumstances, I'd rather see Ancelotti replace LvG than De Jong brought in. The fact there are many better options also means their is zero reason to bring a has-been who will be 31 this year into the side. In Fergie's last 7 seasons we won 5 PL titles and the CL while getting into 2 further CL finals, at no point in that time did we need to resort to a thug player to get it done.
But see even in terms of performance - IMO De Jong over the course of this season and the last has been as good of a defensive midfielder as say De Rossi and is better than Blind in that role. However, since I can't prove that and because it's subjective opinion, statistics are the only method to convey that point. In this case, I can vouch for the fact that the statistics adequately reflect the performance.
Ok. But the thing about football or any sport in general, is that personnel decision making should be independent of individual or personal bias. There was a time when a lot of morally judgmental fans hated Robben for the antics and thought he was a grade a cnut - as an example. Not saying De Jong is that caliber of player mind, but would we want Robben at United irrespective of how we feel about his behavior ? Hell yeah we would, because performance on the pitch is ultimately what matters. You might be the nicest person in the world but if you can't perform to a certain standard, then the team has no use for you.
I don't mind De Jong being a thug (most rival fans thought Keane was a thug, we as United fans thought Vieira was a thug - again this isn't to say that De Jong is in Keane or Vieira's class) but you do need some fight and character in the team to go with the flair and that's what we lack. Right now, apart from maybe Herrera at a stretch, all of our central midfielder are very vanilla in their demeanor. We could do with some bite in that area, someone who's a bit of a leader and someone who refuses to bow down in a physical skirmish.
Even the Milan team of the mid 2000s that reached 3 European Cup finals and won 2 of them - had a very similar player in the shape of Gattuso who meshed with the flair of Pirlo and Kaka and Schebchenko to preserve the defensive balance in the team.
Well there really isn't very much I can say to that mate as I respect your views on football.
Here's the thing, if you are talking about a truly exceptional talent then yes, I think most would bend their principles, I don't disagree there. However that is not the case here, he's a dirty thug who will turn 31 in November and is well past his best, especially for this league IMO. To me there is no valid reason to compromise in this situation, we simply get a better option that offers the same but is better on the ball. Schneiderlin is PL proven and 25, absolutely ripe for a big move and isn't going to cost a fortune, I see no reason not to buy him instead, and he is merely one example.
We achieved all the titles I mentioned without that bite in midfield though, so I'm not sure it's a must, especially if you get the back 4 sorted out. I admit though I'd like some steel, I'd just prefer it to be a better piece of steel, who is not a thug and whose career has an upward trajectory.
Never thought there would be such an argument over the merits of Nigel de Jong.
I know, I never expected to have it with Invictus in particular, one of my favourite posters on the Caf, I felt sure we'd in sync on this one!@Devil may care
Ok mate. I do understand and respect the general premise of you post(s). However I'm just of a different opinion in the sense that you can't have one good player too many, even if he has some baggage. So let's just agree to disagree.
Speaking of, if I'm not wrong - this might be the first time we've disagreed on the evaluation of a player.
Ok mate. I do understand and respect the general premise of you post(s). However I'm just of a different opinion in the sense that you can't have one good player too many, even if he has some baggage. So let's just agree to disagree.
Speaking of, if I'm not wrong - this might be the first time we've disagreed on the evaluation of a player.
I'm sure you will make up.
De Jong has never even been close to the level of player Gattusso was. De Jong is a decent midfielder but, he has never been a top class holding midfielder. He is 31 and has already shown signs of decline. Just because he will be available on a free does not mean we should go for him.
@Devil may care
Ok mate. I do understand and respect the general premise of you post(s). However I'm just of a different opinion in the sense that you can't have one good player too many, even if he has some baggage. So let's just agree to disagree.
Speaking of, if I'm not wrong - this might be the first time we've disagreed on the evaluation of a player.
That's fine with me mate, and yes, I do believe this has been our first differing view on a player!
Quick, to the Verratti thread! I'm sure you will make up.
We'll have to, for the good of the Ander and Fellaini wars ahead!That's fine with me mate, and yes, I do believe this has been our first differing view on a player!
Dammit I don't want to be falling out with anyone.
Dammit I don't want to be falling out with anyone.
Oh me either but sometimes Internet football debating is serious bidness!
First team next season if I were to choose and keeping in mind being a bit realistic
De Gea
Rafael Smalling Varane Shaw
Di Maria Strootman Verratti Nani
Rooney Berahino
Bench
Jones Young Herrera Wilson Rojo Blind Valdes
De Gea
Rafael Smalling Varane Shaw
Di Maria Strootman Verratti Nani
Rooney Berahino
Bench
Jones Young Herrera Wilson Rojo Blind Valdes
What i think will happen, not necessarily what i want...
Out:
Evans
ADM
rafael
mata
Herrera
Rvp
falcao
DDG
nani
hernandez
in:
lloris
Depay
clyne
cavani
Laporte
a CM just can't think who.
And probably one 'left field' signing
Out:
Evans
ADM
rafael
mata
Herrera
Rvp
falcao
DDG
nani
hernandez
in:
lloris
Depay
clyne
cavani
Laporte
a CM just can't think who.
And probably one 'left field' signing
Another summer failing to bring in a centre half (or two) would be as criminal as all those years Fergie failed to bring in a central midfielder with any class.
Edit: Just seen you've listed Ayermic Laporte, curse me and my rubbish skim reading technique! I shall still say though I don't think just the one centre back is needed, I am less convinced that both Jones/Rojo are good enough, Smalling I could handle being back up.
I actually think that this Summer will be very different to last, in that we won't see 'big' names as such come in, But more serviceable ones that will fit the system.
Depay looks like that is certain to happen, and Clyne is looking likely to. De Jong may be brought in to add depth as he is a free transfer and Vlaar is a possible but I'm not 100% sure whether LVG does actually want him at the the club.
I don't think a new GK will be bought as Victor Valdes is obviously going to be 1st choice should Dave go to Madrid.
Now the other positions that he does need to fill are Striker and CB. Hummels will be the CB target it looks like and I think he will be the biggest name to come in.
The striker position I have no clue who we will go in for, The Berahino links do not surprise me though as we are seriously lacking in pace, Plus you would guess he would be happy to play a squad role here.
In:
Depay,
Clyne,
De Jong(?),
Hummels,
Striker (Berahino?)
Out:
Falcao,
Evans,
Rafael,
De Gea (?),
Pereira,
Nani
Depay looks like that is certain to happen, and Clyne is looking likely to. De Jong may be brought in to add depth as he is a free transfer and Vlaar is a possible but I'm not 100% sure whether LVG does actually want him at the the club.
I don't think a new GK will be bought as Victor Valdes is obviously going to be 1st choice should Dave go to Madrid.
Now the other positions that he does need to fill are Striker and CB. Hummels will be the CB target it looks like and I think he will be the biggest name to come in.
The striker position I have no clue who we will go in for, The Berahino links do not surprise me though as we are seriously lacking in pace, Plus you would guess he would be happy to play a squad role here.
In:
Depay,
Clyne,
De Jong(?),
Hummels,
Striker (Berahino?)
Out:
Falcao,
Evans,
Rafael,
De Gea (?),
Pereira,
Nani
In:
Clyne
Hummels/Varane (would actually love both)
Schneiderlin
Gundogan
Depay
Berahino/Dybala
Out:
Cleverley
Falcao
Evans
Rafael
Lindegaard
Wilson - loan
Clyne
Hummels/Varane (would actually love both)
Schneiderlin
Gundogan
Depay
Berahino/Dybala
Out:
Cleverley
Falcao
Evans
Rafael
Lindegaard
Wilson - loan
Wow that's a very busy summer.
As much as id like this, I dont see us getting Schneiderlin and Gundogan in the same summer.
Carrick, Blind, ADM, Herrera and all competing for CM slots.
Won't happen in a million years but a Muppet summer for me would be
Out
Evans
Rafael
De gea (sadly)
Falcao
Cleverley
hernandez
Di Maria
Rvp
In
Bale, if dave leaves to madrid
Nani, back from loan
Lacazette
Clyne
Veratti, if PSG bid for Di Maria
Dybala
Depay
Lloris or begovic (hope to god valdes isn't our number1 keeper he's trash)
Experienced CB, hummels, Godin or somebody similar
Out
Evans
Rafael
De gea (sadly)
Falcao
Cleverley
hernandez
Di Maria
Rvp
In
Bale, if dave leaves to madrid
Nani, back from loan
Lacazette
Clyne
Veratti, if PSG bid for Di Maria
Dybala
Depay
Lloris or begovic (hope to god valdes isn't our number1 keeper he's trash)
Experienced CB, hummels, Godin or somebody similar
If our summer ended like this I'd be a happy muppet
In:
Marquinhos
Hummels
Schneiderlin
Dybala or Vietto
Memphis or Firmino
Out:
Hernandez
Nani
Evans
Smalling or Jones
Mata
In:
Marquinhos
Hummels
Schneiderlin
Dybala or Vietto
Memphis or Firmino
Out:
Hernandez
Nani
Evans
Smalling or Jones
Mata
Oh please god no.
Ronaldo rumours mean I have to pick Ronaldo as a transfer
In
Ronaldo- £65million
Schniederlin- £25million
Gudogan- £18million
Godin- £20million
Clyne- £12million
-----------------------------De Gea---------------------------
------Clyne--------Godin-------------Jones--------Shaw----
------------------------------Carrick-------------------------
-----------------Gundogan-----------Schniederlin-------------
-----------Di Maria----------Rooney----------Ronaldo---------
Bang Bang...
In
Ronaldo- £65million
Schniederlin- £25million
Gudogan- £18million
Godin- £20million
Clyne- £12million
-----------------------------De Gea---------------------------
------Clyne--------Godin-------------Jones--------Shaw----
------------------------------Carrick-------------------------
-----------------Gundogan-----------Schniederlin-------------
-----------Di Maria----------Rooney----------Ronaldo---------
Bang Bang...
If I had my druthers...
A normal, objective neutral probably looks at our front 6 options and figures the best players with multiple years left to play (sorry Carrick) are Rooney, Mata, Di Maria and Herrera. You look at those names and it seems clear that a top team looking to batter teams on their way to 80+ points a year would need a pacy goalscorer who can operate wide and a rock solid DM to sit behind Herrera.
If we can add someone like Bale who is desperate to score goals from a wider position, then signing a rock like Schneiderlin would put allow our La Liga contingent + Rooney to play football with a solid back 5 behind them. It would be too risky for Van Gaal presumably, but the next manager....
------Rooney------ (RVP, Wilson)
-------------Bale-- (Nani)
-DiMaria--Mata---- (Januzaj, Fellaini, Pereira)
-----Herrera------- (Blind)
---Schneiderlin--- (Carrick)
Shaw-------Rafael (Blind, RB)
----CB--Smalling-- (Rojo, Jones, McNair)
-----De Gea------ (Valdes, Johnstone)
Everyone is in their correct position and there is balance (can swap Di Maria and Bale on wings depending on who we're up against, and drop Mata and bring in Blind or Fellaini in certain tougher games).
That side could see us above Chelsea, and only for another 150 million (75 for Bale, 30 for Schneiderlin, 35 for the CB, 10 for the backup RB we still need). And we'd recoup some of that (maybe 40 million) in selling off Young, Valencia, Hernandez and Evans.
It's really there for a proper title winning side again. We could even get it half right and keep Valencia as the backup RB and delay the DM signing a year and if Carrick can have one last very good year we might get away with it.
A normal, objective neutral probably looks at our front 6 options and figures the best players with multiple years left to play (sorry Carrick) are Rooney, Mata, Di Maria and Herrera. You look at those names and it seems clear that a top team looking to batter teams on their way to 80+ points a year would need a pacy goalscorer who can operate wide and a rock solid DM to sit behind Herrera.
If we can add someone like Bale who is desperate to score goals from a wider position, then signing a rock like Schneiderlin would put allow our La Liga contingent + Rooney to play football with a solid back 5 behind them. It would be too risky for Van Gaal presumably, but the next manager....
------Rooney------ (RVP, Wilson)
-------------Bale-- (Nani)
-DiMaria--Mata---- (Januzaj, Fellaini, Pereira)
-----Herrera------- (Blind)
---Schneiderlin--- (Carrick)
Shaw-------Rafael (Blind, RB)
----CB--Smalling-- (Rojo, Jones, McNair)
-----De Gea------ (Valdes, Johnstone)
Everyone is in their correct position and there is balance (can swap Di Maria and Bale on wings depending on who we're up against, and drop Mata and bring in Blind or Fellaini in certain tougher games).
That side could see us above Chelsea, and only for another 150 million (75 for Bale, 30 for Schneiderlin, 35 for the CB, 10 for the backup RB we still need). And we'd recoup some of that (maybe 40 million) in selling off Young, Valencia, Hernandez and Evans.
It's really there for a proper title winning side again. We could even get it half right and keep Valencia as the backup RB and delay the DM signing a year and if Carrick can have one last very good year we might get away with it.
Ideally, I'd like 6 new signings but I highly doubt that we're going to spend that much or sign that many players again this summer.
CB-Godin
RB-Clyne or Coleman
CM-Koke or Schneiderlin (both would be amazing)
Winger/Versatile forward-Dybala or Depay
Striker-Lacazette or Vietto
I think it's guaranteed that we're definitely signing a quality CB this summer, and a starting RB as well (most likely Clyne). I would like to see other alternatives to Clyne (even though he's good, I'm not fully convinced especially since it would be overpriced) but I don't want to say names like Danilo without having even seen him play much. Koke would be an amazing signing for us, but I realize that not only would he be very expensive, but also hard to convince to move to United. Either way, I do think that we need to sign two starting quality CMs. Carrick is still very good but getting quite old, and becoming injury prone. Blind is a great rotation option, but not a long term starter (his versatility will him get plenty of playing time anyway). Schneiderlin will be available this summer for sure, and he'd be an excellent choice as an EPL proven defensive/holding midfielder.
We need a player who can play on the wing, with pace, dribbling ability, and a goal scoring threat. Dybala is primarily a striker, but he's versatile enough to play on the wing, and has a lot of qualities that are perfectly suited to us. Pace, dribbling skills, good movement off the ball, good finishing, creates chances for others, and good work rate. Depay offers a lot of those qualities as well, but I'm not convinced by him yet, and I'm not sure if he's ready to take the step up to a big league yet. As for a striker, Falcao's definitely gone, and RVP's time as a regular starter is definitely over, even if he's staying here next season. Chicharito will be sold as well, so this leaves us thin at striker options. Lacazette has been outstanding in the Ligue 1, with a fantastic goal scoring record and he's helped Lyon to 1st place so far. He also has plenty of pace and dribbling ability, along with being a very good finisher. In this case, Vietto is also just as good of an option. He possesses a lot of great attributes for a striker, just turned 21, and has a very cheap release clause.
CB-Godin
RB-Clyne or Coleman
CM-Koke or Schneiderlin (both would be amazing)
Winger/Versatile forward-Dybala or Depay
Striker-Lacazette or Vietto
I think it's guaranteed that we're definitely signing a quality CB this summer, and a starting RB as well (most likely Clyne). I would like to see other alternatives to Clyne (even though he's good, I'm not fully convinced especially since it would be overpriced) but I don't want to say names like Danilo without having even seen him play much. Koke would be an amazing signing for us, but I realize that not only would he be very expensive, but also hard to convince to move to United. Either way, I do think that we need to sign two starting quality CMs. Carrick is still very good but getting quite old, and becoming injury prone. Blind is a great rotation option, but not a long term starter (his versatility will him get plenty of playing time anyway). Schneiderlin will be available this summer for sure, and he'd be an excellent choice as an EPL proven defensive/holding midfielder.
We need a player who can play on the wing, with pace, dribbling ability, and a goal scoring threat. Dybala is primarily a striker, but he's versatile enough to play on the wing, and has a lot of qualities that are perfectly suited to us. Pace, dribbling skills, good movement off the ball, good finishing, creates chances for others, and good work rate. Depay offers a lot of those qualities as well, but I'm not convinced by him yet, and I'm not sure if he's ready to take the step up to a big league yet. As for a striker, Falcao's definitely gone, and RVP's time as a regular starter is definitely over, even if he's staying here next season. Chicharito will be sold as well, so this leaves us thin at striker options. Lacazette has been outstanding in the Ligue 1, with a fantastic goal scoring record and he's helped Lyon to 1st place so far. He also has plenty of pace and dribbling ability, along with being a very good finisher. In this case, Vietto is also just as good of an option. He possesses a lot of great attributes for a striker, just turned 21, and has a very cheap release clause.
We need six players and 3 of them have to be defenders.
Also depends on DDG too. We might need to spend big on a goalkeeper.
I would get rid of RVP too. Sign one striker. Just have 3 strikers and play with one up top next season.
Also depends on DDG too. We might need to spend big on a goalkeeper.
I would get rid of RVP too. Sign one striker. Just have 3 strikers and play with one up top next season.
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