Well I’d love to hear who is a guaranteed success in this job
Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
This clown has been in the board of the highest decision making core team in the club with Ed and Arnold. The results show that nothing really change.
Next summer we will sack the manager and sign another manager with different style of play who require 3 years and 1B to implement his style.
Next summer we will sack the manager and sign another manager with different style of play who require 3 years and 1B to implement his style.
Guess we should keep the manager, owners and all the current players then since absolutely no one is a guaranteed success in any position.
Or maybe not hiring internally for a position that required a fresh approach in a changing football environment would be a good decision.
Two summer transfer window, his team is really bad. But I guess the Glazers had put certain constraints on transfers making the negotiations really difficult?
Stop making excuses for him. He wasted so much money going for ETH’s targets.
What happened to the scouting system with data analysis setup that he supposedly started at the club to help with identifying potential signings? He’s basically Woodward 2.0 but instead of going for big name signings, he’s just following the manager’s shortlist and overpaying for them.
No other club seems to lean so heavily on there manager for talent identification, which makes sense because its very much a different skill set to being a coach
Or maybe we should settle the ownership first because otherwise you are wasting your time.
If what the football director does is going after managers target, and every signing idea comes from the manager, cant the club just employ someone to do that without giving him the director title?
I believe its called director for a reason. They work together and can give each other inputs. A director is not working under the manager. Then you start looking at 'technical director' job desc they have and its actually about youth. The people upstairs have no clue about football.
Stop acting like youre smart and create meaningless jobs that have little purposes.
I believe its called director for a reason. They work together and can give each other inputs. A director is not working under the manager. Then you start looking at 'technical director' job desc they have and its actually about youth. The people upstairs have no clue about football.
Stop acting like youre smart and create meaningless jobs that have little purposes.
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It's sad and insane that the club have the power and money to go and get the very best in each department to influence our on the pitch achievements and would actually save the club money long term when it comes to player/manager recruitment if we had competent people pulling the strings
He’ll be one of the first out the door once the club is sold.
The level of incompetence from the CEO to the manager will not be tolerated like it currently is.
The level of incompetence from the CEO to the manager will not be tolerated like it currently is.
I'd also like to add, any management positions that have been there since Woodward were there, all of them need to feck off.
It doesn't matter if they were under Woodward. If they were doing a bad job then, there's no way they'd be doing a good one once promoted or mutated into another position. They're still the same people.
It doesn't matter if they were under Woodward. If they were doing a bad job then, there's no way they'd be doing a good one once promoted or mutated into another position. They're still the same people.
I agree with the ownership part. My main point is Murtough should not have been hired in the first place and the excuse of no one man can fix it blah is not a valid one.
I have no idea how Murtough performs at his job and with how the Glazers work, I have no idea what his remit is. I could see him potentially being underqualified or unsuited to the task he has. The Glazers are very insular regarding appointments at board level and senior official level, which obviously hurts us. We miss out on potentially good candidates and instead get a internal appointment who has already been emasculated under the Glazer regime to be a yes man and that dividend yields and share prices are the most important things.
It’s a farce how we’re run. The fact we’re listed on NYSE says it all. New owner has to delist the club and take us private. It even seemed ludcrious looking back that we were a PLC even before the Glazers came in. The corporate shit started way before they set foot through the door. Pretty sure Ferguson hated that we were a PLC.
It’s a farce how we’re run. The fact we’re listed on NYSE says it all. New owner has to delist the club and take us private. It even seemed ludcrious looking back that we were a PLC even before the Glazers came in. The corporate shit started way before they set foot through the door. Pretty sure Ferguson hated that we were a PLC.
I think that the specific individuals, whilst they clearly will have an effect on the performance of the structure (whether that be within coaching / medical / transfer etc parts of the club), it is clear that the performance will naturally be judged on the performance of the teams they are connected to, and there are examples of execs that are heralded at one time or another moving then either underperforming or just no longer 'over-performing'.
They fact is that the club needs to agree what the values are, then work out what that looks like from a data point of view, then make that happen in the youth structure and on the training pitch, then give it time to breathe and keep tinkering to improve it.
Previously, this would've been all down to the manager and likely coaches giving it the 'eye-test' etc, however now we have data and can lean on that to both see if it is working and also ensure continuity if and when staff members (from coaches to managers to execs) leave.
The issue we have is that we keep chopping and changing the values (i.e., different managerial playing styles) without giving it time to bed in and then review it and improve it.
I am really hoping we are going to just keep moving in the same direction as if we do it will improve, because we will review what is going wrong and put it right, and that will mean it will get better over time, and that includes the exes such as Murtough and Fletcher, tellingly, McTominay referred specifically to Fletcher in his post-match interview after Brentford.
Overall, Murtough and Fletcher are just the heads of their respective areas, and if the teams below them are working well then they will look like their doing their own jobs well too, it's hopefully the start of a period of making this project work without changing direction (again), we need to get our heads down and work through it, retaining and acquiring players that can play the system, looking for youth players that fit the system ,weeding out players that either don't fit the system or had bad attitudes, if we do that we will improve, and with the £££'s that we spend we will then outperform other clubs accordingly.
Teams like Brighton haven't reinvented the wheel, they're just sticking with the plan and constantly reviewing it to improve it and to reduce bad habits... a couple of execs don't make the difference, it's the culture of the club as a whole that's important!
They fact is that the club needs to agree what the values are, then work out what that looks like from a data point of view, then make that happen in the youth structure and on the training pitch, then give it time to breathe and keep tinkering to improve it.
Previously, this would've been all down to the manager and likely coaches giving it the 'eye-test' etc, however now we have data and can lean on that to both see if it is working and also ensure continuity if and when staff members (from coaches to managers to execs) leave.
The issue we have is that we keep chopping and changing the values (i.e., different managerial playing styles) without giving it time to bed in and then review it and improve it.
I am really hoping we are going to just keep moving in the same direction as if we do it will improve, because we will review what is going wrong and put it right, and that will mean it will get better over time, and that includes the exes such as Murtough and Fletcher, tellingly, McTominay referred specifically to Fletcher in his post-match interview after Brentford.
Overall, Murtough and Fletcher are just the heads of their respective areas, and if the teams below them are working well then they will look like their doing their own jobs well too, it's hopefully the start of a period of making this project work without changing direction (again), we need to get our heads down and work through it, retaining and acquiring players that can play the system, looking for youth players that fit the system ,weeding out players that either don't fit the system or had bad attitudes, if we do that we will improve, and with the £££'s that we spend we will then outperform other clubs accordingly.
Teams like Brighton haven't reinvented the wheel, they're just sticking with the plan and constantly reviewing it to improve it and to reduce bad habits... a couple of execs don't make the difference, it's the culture of the club as a whole that's important!
My mine gripe is that we bought players that ETH wanted. I would expect a strong DOF to have his own vision of the team, style of play and what players and when are necessary.
While its very possible for someone with little experience to do well even at top positions (ex Michael Edwards ex Liverpool) I don't think that such a thing is the ideal path for anyone in Manchester United. The club is poorly lead from top to bottom and there is too much scrutiny and so little room for mistakes. Take Murtough and Arnold fail attempts in bringing Rabiot and De Jong. Their photos in Turin and Barcelona were splattered across all the British media. I admire the likes of Paul Mitchell. The guy had a non spectacular football career which could land him a top job on a silver platter like other former players did. Yet that didn't deter him and he worked his way to the top first with Milton Keynes then Southampton and afterwards Tottenham. When things didn't go his way he wasn't afraid to go abroad and now he's got experiences in Germany and France. Too many former players seem to want the prestige minus the effort to restart from scratch. Yet there's a significant difference between being a player and being a coach.
Murtough is the most senior person on the football side of the club he isn't meant to be a middle manager. Its very much his job to make sure the team below him is working well. There is literally no evidence we would improve no matter how much time we give him. You don't need several years in the role to identify transfer targets beyond wjay the manager suggests, or to tell that 80m for Antony is ludicrous ffs
We have been sacking managers and spent recklessly for the last decade. Rinse and repeat the process.
The main issue of our failure was we don't have football structure and proper DOF.
To appease fans, we finally try to build a football structure and appointed the first DOF of the club.
The problem is the DOF is Murtough. He has no proper track record as DOF for a big club and added into the fact that he was part of the Ed team which was responsible for unprecedented failure.
We need new owners to come in and put in a proper football structure.
The main issue of our failure was we don't have football structure and proper DOF.
To appease fans, we finally try to build a football structure and appointed the first DOF of the club.
The problem is the DOF is Murtough. He has no proper track record as DOF for a big club and added into the fact that he was part of the Ed team which was responsible for unprecedented failure.
We need new owners to come in and put in a proper football structure.
What does Fletcher do?
He convinced his kids to join our academy so that's something
It's good to hear news coming out now that if Ratcliffe took over, Murtough and hopefully Arnold too will be gone.
A new competent team with proper track records will be brought in to establish the football structure to modernize the club.
Am I asking too much for one of the biggest football club in the world?
A new competent team with proper track records will be brought in to establish the football structure to modernize the club.
Am I asking too much for one of the biggest football club in the world?
Silver lining indeed.
I do find it ironic that Arnold will be voting to basically (reportedly) sack himself if he approves this 25% investment from Ratcliffe.
I'm sure the golden parachute will make it worth it.
Would Arnold go? He is CEO and INEOS are taking control of the "sporting side" of the club.
Surely that doesn't not include the CEO position,
He’ll probably stay and help smooth the process of Jim taking over the sporting side
Dead man walking.
Don't think he's leaving until the Glazers are gone. He is commercial.
But Arnold flew to Spain to try to sign FDJ albeit failed, meaning he is heavily involved in football side too. He is also the one to approve budget for signing particular player.
If he stayed, I think he will be on reduced responsibility. Ratcliffe team will work directly with the new DOF to establish football structure and signings.
I would tend to agree.
On paper you're right however I can see him leaving.
A- While the Glazers owed Woodward greatly this level of loyalty seems missing with Arnold
B-The Glazers would want to positively spin SJR's buying the garden shed as much as possible. Arnold would be a great fall guy especially since he'll also take with him the Greenwood's mess
Thus I can see SJR coming in and bringing new people like a new CEO and a new DOF while promising change. Ultimately key decisions will still need to be voted in and its there were the Glazers hold the key
He's not the one who's deciding which player to go for. He's the one involved in the finances though so of course he's involved but wouldn't say that's heavily involved. Most things football are Murtough.
The Greenwood saga was a mess, although I will say that he was in a complete no win situation there.
Arnold came to United as commercial director and moved into the CEO position. From the outside looking in, the commercial side of the club seems to be pretty strong. I mean, TeamViewer publicly said that the sponsorship deal was a massive waste of money, yet Arnold and co go out and get even more from Snapdragon.
Maybe Arnold sticks strictly to the commercial side.
Short term, they may not want too much change at one time. Keeping some institutional knowledge isnt a bad thing.
But who knows?
Honestly I don't blame Arnold on it. We're talking the future of a 60m rated player and a generational talent whose playing at a club that is in huge debt and whose own by greedy pricks who only see the dollar sign. Can you imagine being Arnold and having to go to the Glazers to tell them that this 60m-70m asset is now worthless? The decision should have been taken by the owners not by the CEO. However its also true that he has no experience in football and hasn't been around for enough time to prove himself. That makes him the ideal fall guy in a positive PR spin
Didn't Ratcliffe make his own brother director of football at Nice when he took over? Look how that turned out.
No he made him CEO and he previously did the same mistake at Lausanne as well. TBF he had since learnt from it. Fabrice Bocquet had previous experience at FC Lorient
I have no issue with him having made mistakes as long as there's evidence he's learned from it and improved since then. Something the Glazers haven't done in 18 years.
I can definitely see Murtough getting moved to the business side only, I am not sure what will happen to Fletcher, I'm not even sure what he does to warrant a paycheque.
Please don't say that, the last thing we need is more nepotism.
Arnold will stay because he is (as CEO) right hand of Glazers. And he is basically running a club for them.
But Murtough and Fletcher are so fecked. Finally.
But Murtough and Fletcher are so fecked. Finally.
The Glazers could never do that
A-They perceived United as a cash cow and they hired people who allowed them to do that.
B- They were never arsed to get directly involved into the club or football as a whole
i don't have a big issue with Arnold, he has had to deal with some serious no-win curveballs from the playing side of the club. He is obviously sharp on the commercial side and the Snapdragon thing is a big win for him. My impression was that he is happy to be out of the sporting side of things but because of ' extreme playing staff issues' has got dragged back into it. He may be glad to hand over that sh!tstorm to Jim and Co.