Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director

Adebisi's Hat said:
i don't have a big issue with Arnold, he has had to deal with some serious no-win curveballs from the playing side of the club. He is obviously sharp on the commercial side and the Snapdragon thing is a big win for him. My impression was that he is happy to be out of the sporting side of things but because of ' extreme playing staff issues' has got dragged back into it. He may be glad to hand over that sh!tstorm to Jim and Co.
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I have zero issues with the man but he's got zero experience in football management. That's not necessarily important at a club with a solid football structure were everyone is brilliant and know his role but it is important in a club were the football structure is virtually non existent. We need a CEO whom, when there's an argument between DOF and the manager, he'll be able to step in rather then check the key phrases being used on wikipedia.

SJR learnt that the hard way at Nice were he had to give a kick upstairs to his own brother. I can't see him repeating the same mistake at United
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Arnold will stay because he is (as CEO) right hand of Glazers. And he is basically running a club for them.
But Murtough and Fletcher are so fecked. Finally.
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I don't even mind Arnold per say, he put his hand up from the start and said football stuff is for the football people. I know that's not ideal, but he is a Glazer man and we're not getting rid of him, commercially we're still doing really well.

The footballing people at this club suck, period.
 
Adebisi's Hat said:
i don't have a big issue with Arnold, he has had to deal with some serious no-win curveballs from the playing side of the club. He is obviously sharp on the commercial side and the Snapdragon thing is a big win for him. My impression was that he is happy to be out of the sporting side of things but because of ' extreme playing staff issues' has got dragged back into it. He may be glad to hand over that sh!tstorm to Jim and Co.
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It's one thing to say I want to hire someone to deal with the football side of things full time, but another thing entirely to not even have the baseline knowledge required to setup structures so the football side of things is successful.

Hypothetically, let's say Murtough is incompetent, does Arnold know enough to question his decision making so we don't end up hamstringing ourselves?

I argue that if anything we need a structure where the commercial side of things gets outsourced to someone, not the football side of things. The football must be the primary and the CEO needs to know how football is supposed to work (recruitment, performance analysis, scouting, sports science etc.). The commerical side, you can bring in a guy like Arnold and let him crack on with it without much oversight.
 
padzilla said:
Didn't Ratcliffe make his own brother director of football at Nice when he took over? Look how that turned out.
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Yeah, and then sacked him when Bailsford told him that a management review showed that he wasn't up for it.


mintyred said:
I can definitely see Murtough getting moved to the business side only, I am not sure what will happen to Fletcher, I'm not even sure what he does to warrant a paycheque.
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The biggest mistake they made at Nice was to wait too long to get proper people in key positions. They went with a wait and see approach, relying on percieved experience in a transitional period and didn't really get key-personell through the door until 2022. They will most definitely install their own people - people with proven results - as soon as they take control and undergo an arduous management review. Murthough, deservedly or not, will be the first to go I reckon.
 
Teja said:
It's one thing to say I want to hire someone to deal with the football side of things full time, but another thing entirely to not even have the baseline knowledge required to setup structures so the football side of things is successful.

Hypothetically, let's say Murtough is incompetent, does Arnold know enough to question his decision making so we don't end up hamstringing ourselves?

I argue that if anything we need a structure where the commercial side of things gets outsourced to someone, not the football side of things. The football must be the primary and the CEO needs to know how football is supposed to work (recruitment, performance analysis, scouting, sports science etc.). The commerical side, you can bring in a guy like Arnold and let him crack on with it without much oversight.
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No with the Glazers leveraged buyout and its consequences we need someone who knows how money works at the top otherwise things could go south easily. I am sure that's the deal anywhere else but it's just that we haven't really tried to utilise the abundance of institional memory in and around the club to help inform our decisions. Real Madrid were using the likes of Zidane even before he had an official role there to convince signings like Varane, for example.

One thing you can never lose sight of is to make sure that the bottom line stays in the black. So whilst Woodward was a moron to think he knew it all it doesn't negate the need for a business/finance guy to be in control. What that guy then needs to do is to take the time to learn the business, cultivate contacts etc. Our guys never seem to do that.
 
devilish said:
No he made him CEO and he previously did the same mistake at Lausanne as well. TBF he had since learnt from it. Fabrice Bocquet had previous experience at FC Lorient
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Oh great so his brother didn't work out and now he thinks a bunch of flowers are going to take them to the top? Just shows the incompetence of the man.
 
Laurencio said:
Yeah, and then sacked him when Bailsford told him that a management review showed that he wasn't up for it.




The biggest mistake they made at Nice was to wait too long to get proper people in key positions. They went with a wait and see approach, relying on percieved experience in a transitional period and didn't really get key-personell through the door until 2022. They will most definitely install their own people - people with proven results - as soon as they take control and undergo an arduous management review. Murthough, deservedly or not, will be the first to go I reckon.
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The Glazers still own 75% of the club and Murtough is a Glazer boy. I can't see him going. Maybe he'll be moved away from football but I don't think a 25% owner can make that decision.
 
mintyred said:
I can definitely see Murtough getting moved to the business side only, I am not sure what will happen to Fletcher, I'm not even sure what he does to warrant a paycheque.
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Fletcher shouldn’t be in this thread imho as his job is not related to Arnold or murtough. He’s director in make only. His job is to oversee the kids coming through
 
mintyred said:
The Glazers still own 75% of the club and Murtough is a Glazer boy. I can't see him going. Maybe he'll be moved away from football but I don't think a 25% owner can make that decision.
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How so?

Appointed by Woodward (no longer around) at the behest of Moyes (ditto).

Few other Woodward hires have survived. I don’t see why Murtough is any different to Matt Judge, Ole and the rest.
 
Revaulx said:
How so?

Appointed by Woodward (no longer around) at the behest of Moyes (ditto).

Few other Woodward hires have survived. I don’t see why Murtough is any different to Matt Judge, Ole and the rest.
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Agreed.
 
Fletcher appointment is a weird one. Rangnick has been in football for decades and he couldn't understand what the feck he does exactly. Roades of the muppetiers (I know he is not liked in here but he had been spot on for months) has said that ineos football people had been highly critical on how the sporting side of United had worked. I am pretty confident that during the 100 day assessment they will be asking why someone with zero coaching experience got repeatedly promoted in a matter of few months and why someone like jones whose greatest quality seem to be his ability to persuade the club to handle him a long term contract has somehow wormed his way back into the club as a coach. Whether they will actually sack them is a totally different matter as it would be disastrous pr wise. However the modus operandi of giving jobs to the boys will be challenged especially considering the disastrous effect it had at Nice
 
Revaulx said:
How so?

Appointed by Woodward (no longer around) at the behest of Moyes (ditto).

Few other Woodward hires have survived. I don’t see why Murtough is any different to Matt Judge, Ole and the rest.
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I wouldn't call him a Glazer boy but he is a Woodward's boy whom in turn was Glazer's favorite son. The guy is one of the very few non Glazers whose got B class shares. Come to think of it he's probably the only non Glazer to have them.
 
devilish said:
Fletcher appointment is a weird one. Rangnick has been in football for decades and he couldn't understand what the feck he does exactly. Roades of the muppetiers (I know he is not liked in here but he had been spot on for months) has said that ineos football people had been highly critical on how the sporting side of United had worked. I am pretty confident that during the 100 day assessment they will be asking why someone with zero coaching experience got repeatedly promoted in a matter of few months and why someone like jones whose greatest quality seem to be his ability to persuade the club to handle him a long term contract has somehow wormed his way back into the club as a coach. Whether they will actually sack them is a totally different matter as it would be disastrous pr wise. However the modus operandi of giving jobs to the boys will be challenged especially considering the disastrous effect it had at Nice
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I don't think they'll be too fussed about us giving work experience to a coach in the academy tbf. God forbid we should ever have anyone at the club in any position with limited experience. Hojlund out.
 
TwoSheds said:
I don't think they'll be too fussed about us giving work experience to a coach in the academy tbf. God forbid we should ever have anyone at the club in any position with limited experience. Hojlund out.
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The academy is hugely important to an EPL club especially considering FFP. Even if the academy is not able to produce the next class of 92 anything time soon, we still have to produce enough kids with enough quality that can be sold for profit. That's what the likes of Chelsea and City had been doing which in turn had brought into some healthy revenue back to the club. So let's remove the notion of 'just the academy'. The academy is important and dashing jobs for non footballing reasons is not acceptable. It becomes even less acceptable to INEOS whose got a horrific experience on the matter, who had paid the price for it and who seem to have finally learnt the lesson. Our academy had produced very few top quality players and when it did the attitude of such players was often not of an acceptable level (JLingz, Greenwood, Pogba etc). Something needs to change on that front.

I would be very surprised if Fletch and Jones end up being sacked. Ratcliffe has to sell the idea to the fans and sacking ex players is not how to do it especially considering how many mates they have in the media. However I can see the process that saw their appointment and Fletcher's serial promotion being challenged.

Ironically these people would probably be in a safer position with Jassim, the Qatari money flowing in and his class of 92 mantra. With Ineos everything must be working like clockwork from the academy to recruitment right to management. That's the only way we can succeed against the oil rich clubs.
 
mintyred said:
The Glazers still own 75% of the club and Murtough is a Glazer boy. I can't see him going. Maybe he'll be moved away from football but I don't think a 25% owner can make that decision.
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If they ratify that Ratcliffe and Co has control of the football operations, the only thing that could dislodge him from that control would be a special resolution. A minority shareholder with over 25% can block any special resolution, so if they ratify full sporting control, budget and all, they can operate as they see fit, and no one - not even the Glazers as majority owners could force him to do anything. He would for all intents and purposes be in charge.
 
devilish said:
Fletcher appointment is a weird one. Rangnick has been in football for decades and he couldn't understand what the feck he does exactly. Roades of the muppetiers (I know he is not liked in here but he had been spot on for months) has said that ineos football people had been highly critical on how the sporting side of United had worked. I am pretty confident that during the 100 day assessment they will be asking why someone with zero coaching experience got repeatedly promoted in a matter of few months and why someone like jones whose greatest quality seem to be his ability to persuade the club to handle him a long term contract has somehow wormed his way back into the club as a coach. Whether they will actually sack them is a totally different matter as it would be disastrous pr wise. However the modus operandi of giving jobs to the boys will be challenged especially considering the disastrous effect it had at Nice
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To install and continue a good ethos it helps to have good ex pros on the books. He fact we are crap always brings criticism but I can assure you no one at City bated an eyelid when Patrick Vieira was working with the youth or Julian Lescott’s currently role which is basically what Fletcher has turned into.

They will be fine they will probably just get new roles more appropriate to what they are doing. Also probably a reassessment of what they are being paid too.
 
devilish said:
The academy is hugely important to an EPL club especially considering FFP. Even if the academy is not able to produce the next class of 92 anything time soon, we still have to produce enough kids with enough quality that can be sold for profit. That's what the likes of Chelsea and City had been doing which in turn had brought into some healthy revenue back to the club. So let's remove the notion of 'just the academy'. The academy is important and dashing jobs for non footballing reasons is not acceptable. It becomes even less acceptable to INEOS whose got a horrific experience on the matter, who had paid the price for it and who seem to have finally learnt the lesson. Our academy had produced very few top quality players and when it did the attitude of such players was often not of an acceptable level (JLingz, Greenwood, Pogba etc). Something needs to change on that front.

I would be very surprised if Fletch and Jones end up being sacked. Ratcliffe has to sell the idea to the fans and sacking ex players is not how to do it especially considering how many mates they have in the media. However I can see the process that saw their appointment and Fletcher's serial promotion being challenged.

Ironically these people would probably be in a safer position with Jassim, the Qatari money flowing in and his class of 92 mantra. With Ineos everything must be working like clockwork from the academy to recruitment right to management. That's the only way we can succeed against the oil rich clubs.
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I will bet you any money you like without looking at their website that Ineos has a graduate scheme. Most likely Year in Industry placements and internships too.
 
Mainoldo said:
To install and continue a good ethos it helps to have good ex pros on the books. He fact we are crap always brings criticism but I can assure you no one at City bated an eyelid when Patrick Vieira was working with the youth or Julian Lescott’s currently role which is basically what Fletcher has turned into.

They will be fine they will probably just get new roles more appropriate to what they are doing. Also probably a reassessment of what they are being paid too.
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As said I will be very surprised if they get fired. However the processes that saw Fletcher getting repeatedly promoted in record time will be challenged. Also results will need to be produced. Selling talented academy players represent a huge pie of revenue united had been missing out for years
 
TwoSheds said:
I will bet you any money you like without looking at their website that Ineos has a graduate scheme. Most likely Year in Industry placements and internships too.
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Probably. Will it be at United though especially considering that the youth academy hasn't been producing the talent other clubs did? I think the lausanne -> Nice -> United route makes more sense
 
devilish said:
Fletcher appointment is a weird one. Rangnick has been in football for decades and he couldn't understand what the feck he does exactly. Roades of the muppetiers (I know he is not liked in here but he had been spot on for months) has said that ineos football people had been highly critical on how the sporting side of United had worked. I am pretty confident that during the 100 day assessment they will be asking why someone with zero coaching experience got repeatedly promoted in a matter of few months and why someone like jones whose greatest quality seem to be his ability to persuade the club to handle him a long term contract has somehow wormed his way back into the club as a coach. Whether they will actually sack them is a totally different matter as it would be disastrous pr wise. However the modus operandi of giving jobs to the boys will be challenged especially considering the disastrous effect it had at Nice
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You say this but I bet you Jim will appoint his boys to senior roles - brailsford etc

as for Fletcher, I know you have always had a thing against him but under his watch garnacho, Mainoo, gore & Hannibal have tread that pathway so I’d argue he’s been good at his job so far
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Blanc and Edwards would be elite.

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Edwards in particular would be amazing. I don't know much about Blanc other than he joined Juventus when they were relegated and got them out of the proverbial shite, but even without that he has actual experience as a footballing chief exec which is already an improvement.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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Ratcliffe: "I've looked over your robust plan..."
Arnold: "it's really robust, isn't it?"
Ratcliffe: "It's a single piece of paper that says 'biggest club in the world' over and over, with a little sketch of a dog at the bottom..."
Arnold: "Yeah, I think it really explains where we want to-"
Ratcliffe: "Get the feck out."
 
golden_blunder said:
You say this but I bet you Jim will appoint his boys to senior roles - brailsford etc

as for Fletcher, I know you have always had a thing against him but under his watch garnacho, Mainoo, gore & Hannibal have tread that pathway so I’d argue he’s been good at his job so far
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A- I think I've already wrote enough about that but let me summarize quickly. Both Bob Ratcliffe and Brailsford had roles at Nice with the former also having a role a Lausanne. Since then they were kicked upstairs with Bob Ratcliffe running football operations and Brailsford being a director of sports both for the whole INEOS group. Each club are now independent from one another with each having their own CEO and their own DOF. At Nice both CEO and DOF has previous experience in that role. I can't see him reverting to the bad old ways considering that it costed him a lot + Nice are doing very well with the present structure

B- I have nothing about anyone. However its evident that INEOS find the sporting side of United as being weak. Which is why they insist on full control of. Its also true that we don't do enough money from the academy something we used to do during our glory days and whom Chelsea/City do to near perfection. So that's a pressing issue a cash strapped United will probably tackle. Finally its a known fact that Rangnick (an experienced DOF with a way better pedigree than Murtough and all of us) failed to understand what Fletcher does and that Fletcher's rise to prominence from U16 coach (October 20) to first team coach (January 21) to technical director (March 21) is rather unprecedented. As said I can't see Fletcher sacked. However its not out of the realms of possibility that Mitchell will be asking the same questions Rangnick did especially considering that they worked together and they share a similar ideology.
 
padzilla said:
Didn't Ratcliffe make his own brother director of football at Nice when he took over? Look how that turned out.
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Nice.png
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Ratcliffe: "I've looked over your robust plan..."
Arnold: "it's really robust, isn't it?"
Ratcliffe: "It's a single piece of paper that says 'biggest club in the world' over and over, with a little sketch of a dog at the bottom..."
Arnold: "Yeah, I think it really explains where we want to-"
Ratcliffe: "Get the feck out."
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:lol:
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Edwards in particular would be amazing. I don't know much about Blanc other than he joined Juventus when they were relegated and got them out of the proverbial shite, but even without that he has actual experience as a footballing chief exec which is already an improvement.
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I'm uncomfortable with making the man who resurrected Liverpool into our DOF, but I will grudgingly admit he did a fantastic job and created a recruitment system that very few clubs can match - with our money he could probably create an unparalleled recruitment system.
 
Another interesting opportunity, is that we could sign players via Nice (without the MUFC tax). And the ones that don't make it at United could go the other way.
 
A, I bet one or more of his “boys” are brought to United
B, you neglected the fact that Fletcher has been doing a good job. The fact that Ragnick felt he had to say that in public “what does Fletcher do?” When it was already well documented in public what he did/does, says more about Rangnick than it does Fletcher. Perhaps if he had spent more time trying to work with and improve the system than trying to score points against the board he may still be there as consultant or DoF.
Maybe if the bluffer of geggenpressing had brought in better quality coaches the club wouldn’t have thought that he needed a bit of help in that area
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Edwards in particular would be amazing. I don't know much about Blanc other than he joined Juventus when they were relegated and got them out of the proverbial shite, but even without that he has actual experience as a footballing chief exec which is already an improvement.
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Edwards is amazing. Blanc isn't that bad (although Marotta is far better) but I doubt he'll leave his job at the pinnacle of INEOS sports pyramid to become United's CEO.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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Such statements really grind my gears. How can they now that they will support EtH after the review when they haven't done ìt yet? A true complete audit should be done open minded and if results show that Murtough and Arnold to a fantastic job and Fletcher and EtH have to be sacked into oblivion so be it.

I don't expect that to be the outcome, but denying it right from the beginning completely undermines the audit.

So I hope this is just Ducker writing some BS.
 
devilish said:
Edwards is amazing. Blanc isn't that bad (although Marotta is far better) but I doubt he'll leave his job at the pinnacle of INEOS sports pyramid to become United's CEO.
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Isn't Soriano both the CEO of Man City and the head of City Football Group? It certainly looks like INEOS might want to replicate their model - I wouldn't think it impossible for him to be the CEO of their flagship club.
 
golden_blunder said:
A, I bet one or more of his “boys” are brought to United
B, you neglected the fact that Fletcher has been doing a good job. The fact that Ragnick felt he had to say that in public “what does Fletcher do?” When it was already well documented in public what he did/does, says more about Rangnick than it does Fletcher. Perhaps if he had spent more time trying to work with and improve the system than trying to score points against the board he may still be there as consultant or DoF.
Maybe if the bluffer of geggenpressing had brought in better quality coaches the club wouldn’t have thought that he needed a bit of help in that area
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Rangnick was placed into a no win situation. The squad had imploded, morale was in the shitters, he was brought in mid way through the season (thus poaching coaches from elsewhere was tough) and he wasn't even allowed to sign players. As manager he was a poor fit as well. First of all he was more of a DOF then a manager to start with. Secondly his philosophy (which is also used by Klopp and Tuchel btw) needed a whole revamp of the squad something Rangnick couldn't do as a temp. I think that the more time passes the more we understand that speeches like the club need open heart surgery makes more sense then ever.
 
Laurencio said:
Isn't Soriano both the CEO of Man City and the head of City Football Group? It certainly looks like INEOS might want to replicate their model - I wouldn't think it impossible for him to be the CEO of their flagship club.
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I can't answer to that. What I do know is that Blanc isn't CEO of Nice and that INEOS has specified the need to have an independent CEO for every club.
 
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