Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director

[hellhunter]

The appointment of Fletcher was really bizarre. What kind of credentials does he have to take on such a role?

Do you even know what he does?

 

[Swordsman]

You could do that for every wealthy clubs in all leagues and you can start with United.



Kimmich was playing in the second division, they purchased him in 2015 he wasn't close to be an amazing midfielder and Goretzka was a promising talent not an amazing midfielder either and it took him a bit of time to get there. Neuer wasn't purchased for little money, he was the third most expensive goalkeeper in the history, Lewandowski was a free agent everyone could have offered him a contract.

is £19m super expensive for a quality keeper back in 2011 ?

 

[JPRouve]

is £19m super expensive for a quality keeper back in 2011 ?

Yes. Including addons it was the 3rd or 4th most expensive ever.

 

[Real Name]

Who will be what now. Arnold a future CEO, Fletcher a technical director, DOF?

 

[dal]

Going off fletchers analysis when he’s a pundit isn’t the best mark but he always seemed super intelligent.

This is exactly what we should be doing going forward 1-2 technical beasts, someone from the club then appointing a world class coach, changing the manager every 2-3 years then is no problem.

Ole tried to do it like SAF, he was almost a hybrid sporting director. We need a world class coach now. Ten hag or Pochetino is absolutely fine with me.

 

[Adnan]

Are we beginning to see something resembling a structure going forward now?

Murtough as the head figure

Fletcher, Rangnick, Head of data science & the head coach all reporting to him

Who's the head of the academy now @Adnan ? And is there room for more people in that structure? Like a head of recruitment? Would Matt Judge be one of Murtough's reports, or is that more a dotted line into him?

The head of academy is Nick Cox and the head of recruitment is Marcel Bout who goes by the title of head of global scouting, and is the point of contact between the divisional head scouts, the data analytics department and John Murtough who oversees it all.

I don't think we have a issue here apart from making further improvements when it comes to data/science which is reportedly being improved upon with the latest addition being Dominic Jordan.

Where I want to see improvements imminently is at youth level coaching. I don't think some of our coaches are good enough and I'd like to see a proactive play style which links all the way down from the first team to the youth teams, both in offensive and defensive transition, with emphasis on a coordinated approach both on and off the ball. Murtough has spoken about doing just that, so I hope we start to see something develop at first team level for the youth to then also adopt.

 

[Real Name]

The head of academy is Nick Cox and the head of recruitment is Marcel Bout who goes by the title of head of global scouting, and is the point of contact between the divisional head scouts, the data analytics department and John Murtough who oversees it all.

I don't think we have a issue here apart from making further improvements when it comes to data/science which is reportedly being improved upon with the latest addition being Dominic Jordan.

Where I want to see improvements imminently is at youth level coaching. I don't think some of our coaches are good enough and I'd like to see a proactive play style which links all the way down from the first team to the youth teams, both in offensive and defensive transition, with emphasis on a coordinated approach both on and off the ball. Murtough has spoken about doing just that, so I hope we start to see something develop at first team level for the youth to then also adopt.

I must say I'm excited, things seem to go in a right direction.

 

[slavishduke]

The head of academy is Nick Cox and the head of recruitment is Marcel Bout who goes by the title of head of global scouting, and is the point of contact between the divisional head scouts, the data analytics department and John Murtough who oversees it all.

I don't think we have a issue here apart from making further improvements when it comes to data/science which is reportedly being improved upon with the latest addition being Dominic Jordan.

Where I want to see improvements imminently is at youth level coaching. I don't think some of our coaches are good enough and I'd like to see a proactive play style which links all the way down from the first team to the youth teams, both in offensive and defensive transition, with emphasis on a coordinated approach both on and off the ball. Murtough has spoken about doing just that, so I hope we start to see something develop at first team level for the youth to then also adopt.

Is there any particular coaches you are worried about, or any youth groups, ie U-18, U-23 or younger etc?

 

[devilish]

Everything about how our club is operated is bizzare. Fletch is one of the "lads", I guess. United DNA and all of that.

The guy is a genius, he got like 3 promotions in 5 months or so.

 

[devilish]

Currently the DOF is at par with the manager and has Judge and Fletcher under him. I won't be surprised if after these 6 months Rangnick will move above both the manager and the DOF and a step below the CEO. Which makes sense really as United seriously lack experience. This is Murtough's first job as DOF, Fletcher has been given like 3 promotions (U16 coach, first team coach and Technical director) in a period of 5-6 months and Judge has absolutely no idea about football.

 

[wolvored]

Do you even know what he does?

Makes the tea. Turns on/off the lights. Locks up/opens up. you know the usual lackey things.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Adam Crafton expanded a bit on Richard Arnold's expected role in the athletic comments. Sounds promising.

"Hey James. I can hopefully explain a bit. Arnold’s work for the club has mostly been on the commercial side, engaging with sponsors and partners, but his expected promotion when Ed (eventually!) steps down will mean United re-structure a bit. My impression from various conversations is Arnold does not want to make mistakes by learning on the job with regards to recruitment and football development, and will look to empower specialists/experts in the field, which gives more scope to people such as Murtough/Judge/Fletcher and possibly Rangnick in consultancy role to lead in this respect. It sounds an encouraging approach to me"

 

[Adnan]

Is there any particular coaches you are worried about, or any youth groups, ie U-18, U-23 or younger etc?

Neil Ryan and Neil Wood.

I'm on the fence about Travis Binnion because I haven't seen a season of his work yet. But I believe we have fallen a few levels since Kieran McKenna was promoted to the first team and should look to bring in young coaches like Mckenna if possible who look to implement a fast, fluid, fast transition playstyle with a coordinated pressing game.

 

[romufc]

I was listening to the Athletic podcast. It is interesting actually what the changes are. Murthough has realised he isn't a football man and Fletcher is not experienced. He brings in a footballing person who will build a philosophy, mentor the likes of Fletcher and Murtough, whilst building a structure at the club.

This could be interesting, if he revolutionises United, he will go down as a legend really.

 

[altodevil]

Adam Crafton expanded a bit on Richard Arnold's expected role in the athletic comments. Sounds promising.

"Hey James. I can hopefully explain a bit. Arnold’s work for the club has mostly been on the commercial side, engaging with sponsors and partners, but his expected promotion when Ed (eventually!) steps down will mean United re-structure a bit. My impression from various conversations is Arnold does not want to make mistakes by learning on the job with regards to recruitment and football development, and will look to empower specialists/experts in the field, which gives more scope to people such as Murtough/Judge/Fletcher and possibly Rangnick in consultancy role to lead in this respect. It sounds an encouraging approach to me"

If Arnold does this he is already an upgrade over Woodward. Despite taking merely a sensible approach, it's enough to do a world of good.

 

[wolvored]

Adam Crafton expanded a bit on Richard Arnold's expected role in the athletic comments. Sounds promising.

"Hey James. I can hopefully explain a bit. Arnold’s work for the club has mostly been on the commercial side, engaging with sponsors and partners, but his expected promotion when Ed (eventually!) steps down will mean United re-structure a bit. My impression from various conversations is Arnold does not want to make mistakes by learning on the job with regards to recruitment and football development, and will look to empower specialists/experts in the field, which gives more scope to people such as Murtough/Judge/Fletcher and possibly Rangnick in consultancy role to lead in this respect. It sounds an encouraging approach to me"

If true thats excellent news and a massive step away from the meglomaniac that was Woodward. At least Arnold has admitted he is out of his depth football wise, but will do something about it by bringing in expertise. Perhaps this 2 years consultancy is to see how it progresses, teaches Murtough the ways of DOF and maybe extended if successful, as in we have won PL and/or CL in next 2.5 seasons.

 

[Matt851]

I was listening to the Athletic podcast. It is interesting actually what the changes are. Murthough has realised he isn't a football man and Fletcher is not experienced. He brings in a footballing person who will build a philosophy, mentor the likes of Fletcher and Murtough, whilst building a structure at the club.

This could be interesting, if he revolutionises United, he will go down as a legend really.

It is interesting but top clubs usually just hire people who have the relevant experience and achievements to these roles rather than give them to club men and hope they can learn. There is a strong chance they just won't ever be that good at their jobs

 

[romufc]

It is interesting but top clubs usually just hire people who have the relevant experience and achievements to these roles rather than give them to club men and hope they can learn. There is a strong chance they just won't ever be that good at their jobs

Which is why Ragnik is here, he will know if they are capable. Murtough has shown since coming in he is capable, we got a new shirt sponsor, we made good signings for good prices, we have got Ragnik in.

Fletcher, just because one club man in Ole has failed doesn't mean it fails every time. He will look at this and they will want to learn.

People like Carrick, Mkenna are young coaches, if they do not want to learn from Ragnik, they'll never make it.

In the last week, I have got the impression that Carrick wants to go into management, this is the perfect foil for him.

 

[slavishduke]

Neil Ryan and Neil Wood.

I'm on the fence about Travis Binnion because I haven't seen a season of his work yet. But I believe we have fallen a few levels since Kieran McKenna was promoted to the first team and should look to bring in young coaches like Mckenna if possible who look to implement a fast, fluid, fast transition playstyle with a coordinated pressing game.

That's both U-23 and U-18 then. I think Ralf will have look over those areas as well and if he finds them lacking he will probably suggest changes there. I have faith that him together with John Murtough can get some good coaches in if they decide to.

I, like you also want the academy and the first team to have a synergy with eachother and a common thread from youth teams to first team. What I really like about Klopp and Pep is how they both rotate really well but also bloodies in youth quite reguarly especially Klopp. We have seen alot of youngsters this season at Liverpool that are only 16, 17 or 18 and play really well in that existing structure. I think this is because Liverpool has that thread between the youth teams and first team, and that's why they are able to slot in so well in the first team.

 

[RUCK4444]

If Arnold does this he is already an upgrade over Woodward. Despite taking merely a sensible approach, it's enough to do a world of good.

Yeah my thoughts exactly.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Here's another quote from the athletic on Murtough.

"There had also been some at Old Trafford who felt Murtough, for all his expertise in the field of youth development and domestic football, may lack the clout to be a fully-fledged sporting director central to recruitment, so Rangnick’s two years of consultancy could be of vital assistance for the football director. Murtough was present on Wednesday at a meeting of the Sporting Directors’ Association at Old Trafford but made a speedy exit shortly before lunchtime as United closed in on the Rangnick deal."

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Arnold has watched Woodward for the last eight years feck about learning on the job and pretending to know football then he's seen all the shit he's got from fans and media. At least he has some self awareness.

 

[L1nk]

 

[Adnan]

That's both U-23 and U-18 then. I think Ralf will have look over those areas as well and if he finds them lacking he will probably suggest changes there. I have faith that him together with John Murtough can get some good coaches in if they decide to.

I, like you also want the academy and the first team to have a synergy with eachother and a common thread from youth teams to first team. What I really like about Klopp and Pep is how they both rotate really well but also bloodies in youth quite reguarly especially Klopp. We have seen alot of youngsters this season at Liverpool that are only 16, 17 or 18 and play really well in that existing structure. I think this is because Liverpool has that thread between the youth teams and first team, and that's why they are able to slot in so well in the first team.

Wood and Ryan are both at u23 level now. Ryan was the u18s coach previously but there didn't seem a coherent plan at all. I'd like to see Justin Cochrane get a opportunity as the head coach.

I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Lash]

The head of academy is Nick Cox and the head of recruitment is Marcel Bout who goes by the title of head of global scouting, and is the point of contact between the divisional head scouts, the data analytics department and John Murtough who oversees it all.

I don't think we have a issue here apart from making further improvements when it comes to data/science which is reportedly being improved upon with the latest addition being Dominic Jordan.

Where I want to see improvements imminently is at youth level coaching. I don't think some of our coaches are good enough and I'd like to see a proactive play style which links all the way down from the first team to the youth teams, both in offensive and defensive transition, with emphasis on a coordinated approach both on and off the ball. Murtough has spoken about doing just that, so I hope we start to see something develop at first team level for the youth to then also adopt.

Agreed, think that's the one thing missing, along with time with this all in place. It's obviously the easiest way to focus on youth as an ethos, if from day dot they're indoctrinated with the philosophy of the first team and carry it through all levels of the academy.

 

[AltiUn]

I did suspect that might be the case, you don’t bring in someone like Rangnick unless you want to actually develop the club and it looks like he’s being given access to all areas. What makes me most excited is that I believe he’ll have extensive knowledge of the lesser-known, but talented, up and coming managers. Considering how bleak it felt a few weeks ago, suddenly there’s a lot of positivity and modernisation going along at the club. Really excited to see where this goes.

 

[L1nk]

I did suspect that might be the case, you don’t bring in someone like Rangnick unless you want to actually develop the club and it looks like he’s being given access to all areas. What makes me most excited is that I believe he’ll have extensive knowledge of the lesser-known, but talented, up and coming managers. Considering how bleak it felt a few weeks ago, suddenly there’s a lot of positivity and modernisation going along at the club. Really excited to see where this goes.

Sounds more like they wanna give it to Carrick or McKenna if Ralf gives them a seal of approval, despite the fact they've been a part of multiple failed regimes

 

[AltiUn]

Sounds more like they wanna give it to Carrick or McKenna if Ralf gives them a seal of approval, despite the fact they've been a part of multiple failed regimes

I don’t think they will, Rangnick will be an objective view free of sentimentality, so when he does have to make a judgement on whether they have managerial credentials his view won’t be clouded.

 

[macheda14]

Sounds more like they wanna give it to Carrick or McKenna if Ralf gives them a seal of approval, despite the fact they've been a part of multiple failed regimes

No it doesnt sound like they want to give them the manager job, more assess their quality as coaches and see if they should stay on. They could easily be very good young coaches, but they’re just that. Young. Ralf has advised many a young coach in his day. As much as it’s good to bring in fresh ideas and faces it’s also good to have some consistency. He’ll most likely bring in a few of his own but Carrick and McKenna will stay in a lesser capacity than assistant managers.

With say McKenna, he’s an incredibly highly rated coach, some seeing him have the potential to be a manager someday, but also reports that his training was a bit simplistic at times. He could learn from Ralf. If ralf says nah he’s shite then he’ll probably be binned off.

 

[Member 105568]

I was listening to the Athletic podcast. It is interesting actually what the changes are. Murthough has realised he isn't a football man and Fletcher is not experienced. He brings in a footballing person who will build a philosophy, mentor the likes of Fletcher and Murtough, whilst building a structure at the club.

This could be interesting, if he revolutionises United, he will go down as a legend really.

Listened to that too. Not sure it went as far as to say that Murtough “has realised he isn’t a football man”. Think it was more that the view is that working with Rangnick for a couple of years would be beneficial for both of Murtough and Fletcher because of his experience and knowledge in building clubs.

 

[romufc]

Listened to that too. Not sure it went as far as to say that Murtough “has realised he isn’t a football man”. Think it was more that the view is that working with Rangnick for a couple of years would be beneficial for both of Murtough and Fletcher because of his experience and knowledge in building clubs.

Yep, It was the other article another poster posted said that, but it was Arnold not Murtough.

Anyway, the Athletic in the podcast gave real insight as to how things develop at United, Andy Mitten and Laurie are very close to Manchester United in terms of journalism. It just seems like a good move, from all parties.

This is a big job, imagine the motivation to turn the biggest club into a well run club, if he manages to bring titles in, his stock will rise even more.

 

[Revan]

Currently the DOF is at par with the manager and has Judge and Fletcher under him. I won't be surprised if after these 6 months Rangnick will move above both the manager and the DOF and a step below the CEO. Which makes sense really as United seriously lack experience. This is Murtough's first job as DOF, Fletcher has been given like 3 promotions (U16 coach, first team coach and Technical director) in a period of 5-6 months and Judge has absolutely no idea about football.

Rangnick as DoF (so Fletcher and Marcel Bout working under him), Murtough above both him and the manager who is in charge of all football matters (including academy, first-team, women's club, relations with fans, etc), and then a CEO (likely Arnold) who is above him, with Joel/Avram at the top. I think this would be the best we can hope while Glazers are there.

In fact, this is not unseen in American sports, like NBA.

Coach and his assistants - coach the team (equivalent to the manager here)
GM - chooses the coach, deals with signing and trading players.
Director of Basketball Operations - above GM, in charge of all basketball things.
President - above Director of Basketball, pretty much in charge of everything.
Owner - hires and fires the President.

Of course, GM and Director of Basketball Operations often is the same person, but it does not need to be. Same as how the DoF could be a different person to Murtough, and report to him. I hope something like this happens, even if the official titles are different. For example, Rangnick can be called consultant for all I care, as long as he is (mostly) in charge of hiring the next manager and doing new signings. Murtough can be above him, although it might be a bit awkward considering that Rangnick is far more experinced and established, but as long as everyone is fine with it, seems a decent model.

 

[UnitedSofa]

The appointment of Fletcher was really bizarre. What kind of credentials does he have to take on such a role?

Makes the tea. Turns on/off the lights. Locks up/opens up. you know the usual lackey things.

Fletcher gets a bad rap on here, don’t know why. Does anyone ever read our press releases when they’re announced?

Murtough is effectively the DOF

Fletcher is the technical director. His role is to for lack of a better term, convince, potential signings to sign for United, he sits in on meetings with players/agents and gets a feel for if they’re the right fit for United. He also does this as a bridge between the Reserves and the first team. Can the youngsters handle the step up, do they have the right mentality. So yes, he does have the right qualifications for this role.

 

[devilish]

Rangnick as DoF (so Fletcher and Marcel Bout working under him), Murtough above both him and the manager who is in charge of all football matters (including academy, first-team, women's club, relations with fans, etc), and then a CEO (likely Arnold) who is above him, with Joel/Avram at the top. I think this would be the best we can hope while Glazers are there.

In fact, this is not unseen in American sports, like NBA.

Coach and his assistants - coach the team (equivalent to the manager here)
GM - chooses the coach, deals with signing and trading players.
Director of Basketball Operations - above GM, in charge of all basketball things.
President - above Director of Basketball, pretty much in charge of everything.
Owner - hires and fires the President.

Of course, GM and Director of Basketball Operations often is the same person, but it does not need to be. Same as how the DoF could be a different person to Murtough, and report to him. I hope something like this happens, even if the official titles are different. For example, Rangnick can be called consultant for all I care, as long as he is (mostly) in charge of hiring the next manager and doing new signings. Murtough can be above him, although it might be a bit awkward considering that Rangnick is far more experinced and established, but as long as everyone is fine with it, seems a decent model.

You might be right but I have a feeling that Rangnick will be ahead of Murtough and here's my reasons why

A- The consultant job was mentioned twice in the past few weeks. One was to describe Rangnick's future role and the other one was to describe Woodward's new role once he leaves his current role. Which suggest that United's consultant roles are at a very high level

B- Rangnick love control. His contract with Milan collapsed because he didn't show 'legacy' names like Boban and Maldini the respect they deserve and for messing around on who should be his coaches. I very much doubt that he'd make concessions for Murtough ie a nobody in his first job as DOF

C- Murtough was the man who moved to Leipzig to study Red Bull's group facilities and not viceversa. The respect is of course mutual since Rangnick would spend 8 hours talking about football with the guy. However let's be clear whose learning from whom and whose the senior man between the two.

D- Rangnick had covered roles which are higher then those of DOF. He was Head of sports and development at Red Bull (which was basically a head DOF of all three clubs falling under the Red bull brand) and then Lokomotiv Moscow. Rangnick also have managerial experience something Murtough does not have. So we've signed a guy who basically covered every role in football (coach, manager, DOF, Head of DOF) vs Murtough whose in his first job as DOF.

Having Rangnick under Murtough is like having Sir Alex under Ole. Its a waste and quite frankly it ain't gonna happen. I think that we'll see Arnold as CEO with Woodward being his right hand man in business terms and Rangnick being his left hand man on football terms.

 

[Matt851]

Fletcher gets a bad rap on here, don’t know why. Does anyone ever read our press releases when they’re announced?

Murtough is effectively the DOF

Fletcher is the technical director. His role is to for lack of a better term, convince, potential signings to sign for United, he sits in on meetings with players/agents and gets a feel for if they’re the right fit for United. He also does this as a bridge between the Reserves and the first team. Can the youngsters handle the step up, do they have the right mentality. So yes, he does have the right qualifications for this role.

Pretty sure you are making up that description of Fletchers role. The most recent reports I saw in the athletic highlighted that more clarity was needed over his role because players were confused by his involvement in coaching. The only reason he got the role is because he used to play for United and had a relationship with some of the senior people at the club. He seems a good guy but appointing legends without the appropriate credentials and experience isn't how successful clubs tend to operate

 

[stefan92]

You might be right but I have a feeling that Rangnick will be ahead of Murtough and here's my reasons why

A- The consultant job was mentioned twice in the past few weeks. One was to describe Rangnick's future role and the other one was to describe Woodward's new role once he leaves his current role. Which suggest that United's consultant roles are at a very high level

B- Rangnick love control. His contract with Milan collapsed because he didn't show 'legacy' names like Boban and Maldini the respect they deserve and for messing around on who should be his coaches. I very much doubt that he'd make concessions for Murtough ie a nobody in his first job as DOF

C- Murtough was the man who moved to Leipzig to study Red Bull's group facilities and not viceversa. The respect is of course mutual since Rangnick would spend 8 hours talking about football with the guy. However let's be clear whose learning from whom and whose the senior man between the two.

D- Rangnick had covered roles which are higher then those of DOF. He was Head of sports and development at Red Bull (which was basically a head DOF of all three clubs falling under the Red bull brand) and then Lokomotiv Moscow. Rangnick also have managerial experience something Murtough does not have. So we've signed a guy who basically covered every role in football (coach, manager, DOF, Head of DOF) vs Murtough whose in his first job as DOF.

Having Rangnick under Murtough is like having Sir Alex under Ole. Its a waste and quite frankly it ain't gonna happen. I think that we'll see Arnold as CEO with Woodward being his right hand man in business terms and Rangnick being his left hand man on football terms.

I think Rangnick consulting Murtough will mean that the latter does the daily business while Rangnick kind of gets a free role to identify issues and recommend changes to the club structure (including signings) and will have some formal veto right or whatever on important decisions.

It will be more liking hiring SAF as a teacher for Ole instead of working for Ole to stay in your picture.

 

[JPRouve]

Pretty sure you are making up that description of Fletchers role. The most recent reports I saw in the athletic highlighted that more clarity was needed over his role because players were confused by his involvement in coaching. The only reason he got the role is because he used to play for United and had a relationship with some of the senior people at the club. He seems a good guy but appointing legends without the appropriate credentials and experience isn't how successful clubs tend to operate

@UnitedSofa didn't make it up, it comes from Andy Mitten who has sources around the club.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/spo...rren-fletcher-as-technical-director-1.1181576

 

[wolvored]

Fletcher gets a bad rap on here, don’t know why. Does anyone ever read our press releases when they’re announced?

Murtough is effectively the DOF

Fletcher is the technical director. His role is to for lack of a better term, convince, potential signings to sign for United, he sits in on meetings with players/agents and gets a feel for if they’re the right fit for United. He also does this as a bridge between the Reserves and the first team. Can the youngsters handle the step up, do they have the right mentality. So yes, he does have the right qualifications for this role.

Think thats in your head. You were an ardent supporter of Ole and his minions. Fletcher is an ex player who came back because its the Utd way and like Carrick was a novice at the job he is supposed to do. In fact I have never seen an official job description for what his role is. Just a job for the boys.

 

[devilish]

I think Rangnick consulting Murtough will mean that the latter does the daily business while Rangnick kind of gets a free role to identify issues and recommend changes to the club structure (including signings) and will have some formal veto right or whatever on important decisions.

It will be more liking hiring SAF as a teacher for Ole instead of working for Ole to stay in your picture.

I think you're referring to a sporting director. If yes then I agree. However Rangnick will be above Murtough in the pecking order.

 

[Matt851]

@UnitedSofa didn't make it up, it comes from Andy Mitten who has sources around the club.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/spo...rren-fletcher-as-technical-director-1.1181576

Well what he described is different to what was described in the article you linked (see below), regardless it sounds like the reality of fletchers role is different to what might have been briefed early on

Fletcher will work closely with Murtough to add technical input and direction into all football and performance areas. He will focus on a co-ordinated and long-term approach to player and squad development, helping maintain the integral link between the Academy and the first team.

Fletcher is the technical director. His role is to for lack of a better term, convince, potential signings to sign for United, he sits in on meetings with players/agents and gets a feel for if they’re the right fit for United. He also does this as a bridge between the Reserves and the first team. Can the youngsters handle the step up, do they have the right mentality. So yes, he does have the right qualifications for this role.