Manchester City under Pep Guardiola | Pep on City v Liverpool ref: "He likes to be special"

[Djemba-Djemba]

Unless he would have absolutely tanked it didn’t matter what he actually archieved. What was important was the demonstration that someone like him was willing to sign for us and, most importantly, that we were willing to pay him. This wasn’t the Bayern way, the way which had gotten us into a decade of disarray. It showed the board had understood.

You're acting like Bayern were some small nothing side, even though you'd been in 2 of the last 3 finals and were on course to win it.

I just find it bizarre that you'd place so much importance on it, especially when it didn't work out as well as you'd hoped. It feels weird to be in a discussion with a Bayern fan where I seem to have a higher opinion of your club than you do.

 

[Borussin]

As someone whose formative football memories come from the 90s, its always weird for me to see Sammer at Bayern rather than Dortmund.

That mid 90s Dortmund team was something. Andreas Moller, Karl-Heinz Rielde...what a team. They even made Lars Ricken look world class. Sammer's injury problems were a tragedy for German football and football as a whole. I really thought he was the heir to Lothar Mattheus.

You can't imagine the pain you caused me in 1997.

As for Bayern, there's elements of truth to what @fcbforever says. Bayern was drifting until the early 2010s. However, the upturn definitely predated Pep. Its true that Klopp's Dortmund upset Bayern a bit and Van Gaal's end was, as you'd expect, disastrous.

That being said Bayern was firm favourite in the 2012 Champions League final, and the idea of bottling was probably a lot stronger in Germany than outside. Everyone else knew Chelsea had fluked it. Then came the Treble with Bayern playing a brand of football that was discernibly German, which crushed the Barca style over two legs.

Pep changed Bayern's football and nobody can say a Pep team at its best isn't beautiful to watch. Say for example Heynckes wins the Champions League again this year, playing his way not the Spanish way though. Many will say Pep's innovations were just a needless move away from what Jupp did. They will also likely say that Hispanising the team, sometimes at the expense of stalwarts like Thomas Muller, went against Bayern traditions pointlessly.

Sammer is back at Dortmund now, it seems we've all kissed and made up!

To be honest, I could find Pep's football pretty boring at time, all that possession and tapping it around! But hey, I can appreciate he's a great coach, I am absolutely fine with that. But I have more time for Jupp and his football though.

 

[juggernaut1986]

That’s not even remotely what I said. I just said that for our stature as a club, signing him in 2012 was likely just as important as winning the actual CL. And that it was a pretty huge deal back in the day. But some people apparently don’t want to read and instead just throw a few smilies and lols around.

I kind of agree with your opinion. I remember Bayern were irrelevant in Europe between 2001 and 2009. In 2010, we were unlucky to be knocked out by Bayern (Rooney injury, Rafael red card). That match left me disappointed for weeks because we should have beaten that Bayern team quite comfortably. I started taking Bayern seriously in 2012. Hiring Pep was a huge statement of intent. For the last 7-8 years, Bayern have been a force in Europe. So, it is hard for some posters to remember that they were ordinary for a long time. After almost a decade of mediocrity it takes more than a couple of good campaigns in Europe to be considered among the true elite.

 

[NinjaZombie]

I really wish like the other above poster you would actually read what I have written instead of making stuff up. Where have I written that?

So what's your point? He's spent half a billion on players who are not amongst the best in world football?

 

[The Man Himself]

I had absolutely no idea who Bayern were till December 2012. Thanks Pep.

 

[Womp]

Managers are responsible for a team's success before even officially joining them? Thank feck for Moyes, we couldn't have managed those 20 odd years of success without him

 

[JDoe]

You guys don't even remotely get what @fcbforever said. Noone is crediting him for the treble, this was Heynckes' team and work all alone. What he is saying is that just right before Pep was announced as our coach, we were considered a tier 2 club PRESTIGEWISE (at least that was what most people thought back then) behind the likes of Real/Barca and the super rich English clubs. If we hadn't won the treble under Heynckes, the appointment of Pep would have still boosted our image as a superclub regardless just because of his name alone. It just happened to be that we absolute crushed everyone on our path to the CL knockouts back then and our best players proved themselves as being the best in their positions respectively which put us in the same league as the other 2 Spanish superclubs as one of the top 3 clubs anyway.

I already said it back then after his first season for us that I had the impression his style of football was really hard to implement unless you had far better players in every position and this wasn't the case in the CL and I still stand by that statement. I've already expected him to win the league in his first year at City but this year wasn't that surprising for me. His teams absolutely crush teams that defend deep and do not want to attack (which makes up like 80% of the league usually) but are exposed against teams that have pacey attackers.

He is for me without a doubt the best LEAGUE manager there is (his teams are very flat-track-bullyish) and I am sure that he will dominate the PL for the next years but his record against teams of the same quality that actually try to attack and are pacey upfront will stay underwhelming unless he changes his style specifically for those games. Pretty much the opposite to Klopp for example whose teams do not require superstar individuals and generally punch above their weight when playing against good oppositions that try to go toe on toe with them, but are rather inconsistent against teams that are worse on paper and defend deep (or teams that are individually superior and defend deep too like you lot). Pep's teams are incredibly consistent/predictable and Klopp's teams are completely inconsistent/unpredictable both in positive and negative ways.

 

[The Man Himself]

I don't know who all thought Bayern were tier 2 club before. Of course Bayern since 2010 or so onwards have been more consistent but they have better players/squad too. For me and I am sure it is true for many, it is not as if we thought Bayern as small club till 2009 and suddenly in 2012, they become a superclub thanks to Pep appointment. Even in the years, they weren't doing as well last decade (which is comparative) it didn't become a small club. Real Madrid too were laughably shit in CL knockouts last decade after 2002 win and probably had less domestic titles than Bayern from 2002-2010. Didn't mean Mourinho joining them in 2010 and starting the semi-finals sequence gave Real Madrid more recognition internationally. Bayern still were club with 4th most European cups/CLs till 2010 and 3rd most jointly by 2012 end. For me, Pep going to Bayern was hardly a big deal. Bayern was and is one of the biggest clubs in world. Some relatively meh years in between didn't change that, nor did Pep's appointment.

 

[Idxomer]

LVG is the master behind all that after putting down his foundations.

 

[Random Task]

You guys don't even remotely get what @fcbforever said. Noone is crediting him for the treble, this was Heynckes' team and work all alone. What he is saying is that just right before Pep was announced as our coach, we were considered a tier 2 club PRESTIGEWISE (at least that was what most people tought back then) behind the likes of Real/Barca and the super rich English clubs. If we hadn't won the treble under Heynckes, the appointment of Pep would have still boosted our image as a superclub regardless just because of his name alone. Happened to be that we absolute crushed everyone on our path to the CL knockouts back then and our best players proved themselves as being the best in their positions respectively which put us in the same league as the other 2 super clubs as one of the top 3 clubs anyway.

I already said it back then after his first season that I had the impression his style of football is really hard to implement unless you had far better players in every position and this wasn't the case in the CL and I still stand by that statement. I've already expected him to win the league in his first year at City but this year wasn't that surprising for me. His teams absolutely crush teams that defend deep and do not want to attack (which makes up like 80% of the league usually) but are exposed against teams that have pacey attackers.

He is for me without a doubt the best league manager there is (his teams are very flat-track-bullyish) and I am sure that he will dominate the PL for the next years but his record against teams of the same quality that actually try to attack and are pacey upfront will stay underwhelming unless he changes his style specifically for those games. Pretty much the opposite to Klopp for example whose teams do not require superstar individuals and generally punch above their weight when playing against good oppositions, but are rather inconsistent against teams that are worse on paper and defend deep (or teams that are individually superior and defend deep too like you lot). Pep's teams are incredibly consistent/predictable and Klopp's teams are completely inconsistent/unpredictable both in positive and negative ways.

The notion that Bayern were not a top tier club before Pep arrived, whether that be in terms of prestige or otherwise, is a hugely debateable argument. In all the years I have been a football fan (mid 90's onwards) Bayern Muncih have always been considered among Europe's top elite.

The guy is clearly a top level football manager, the trophy accumulation with the clubs he has managed during his career is testiment to that, which is why I cannot understand the need to create illusionary content in order to bolster that claim. Totally unnecessary.

 

[JDoe]

Of course we were already a big club back then, but not one of the top 5 clubs (that'd have been Real/Barca/Chelsea/United/one of the Italian clubs) prestigewise (not historically, but at that moment). Pep's appointment would have brought us to a top 5 club, I think. @fcbforever wasn't trying to big him up anything, it was just what he (and most people in Germany, myself included) felt when we got him. If we could compare his appointment to a transfer, before that, we'd only be able to attract players like Spurs/Liverpool currently do, but Pep was a marquee transfer comparable to as if we had signed someone highly sought after talent like Pogba/Verratti or whomever, for instance, regardless of how he actually would perform for our club (his stint at Bayern was good, but nothing too exceptional in my view).

 

[Trizy]

That headline though.

That headline.. be honest, which one of you was it?

 

[fcbforever]

The notion that Bayern were not a top tier club before Pep arrived, whether that be in terms of prestige or otherwise, is a hugely debateable argument. In all the years I have been a football fan (mid 90's onwards) Bayern Muncih have always been considered among Europe's top elite.

The guy is clearly a top level football manager, the trophy accumulation with the clubs he has managed during his career is testiment to that, which is why I cannot understand the need to create illusionary content in order to bolster that claim. Totally unnecessary.

See? That’s wrong. You have given so little shits about us in the 2000‘s that you didn’t even notice how irrelevant we had become. This is exactly this retroactive appliance of today’s image of the club I‘m speaking about. No one, absolutely no one, considered us amongst the European elite during that period.

 

[Random Task]

See? That’s wrong. You have given so little shits about us in the 2000‘s that you didn’t even notice how irrelevant we had become. This is exactly this retroactive appliance of today’s image of the club I‘m speaking about. No one, absolutely no one, considered us amongst the European elite during that period.

Honestly I find this notion youre peddlng to be utterly bizzare.

When, if ever, were Bayern considered not to be among Europe's top elite. I mean is this just your opinion or do you have any facts to support this claim?

 

[fcbforever]

Honestly I find this notion youre peddlng to be utterly bizzare.

When, if ever, were Bayern considered not to be among Europe's top elite. I mean is this just your opinion or do you have any facts to support this claim?

Look at our results between 2001 and 2009. Look at who we signed. Come back here.

I find your opinion utterly bizarre. We got regularly trashed by absolutely everyone in Europe while the board went on about there not being any value in the market. We lost our only marquee player on a free to Chelsea.


Is Arsenal amongst the European elite for you for the past 10 years?

 

[fcbforever]

https://www.transfermarkt.de/fc-bayern-munchen/pokalhistorie/verein/27

Here. So it’s easier for you.

 

[The Man Himself]

Of course we were already a big club back then, but not one of the top 5 clubs (that'd have been Real/Barca/Chelsea/United/one of the Italian clubs) prestigewise (not historically, but at that moment). Pep's appointment would have brought us to a top 5 club, I think. @fcbforever wasn't trying to big him up anything, it was just what he (and most people in Germany, myself included) felt when we got him. If we could compare his appointment to a transfer, before that, we'd only be able to attract players like Spurs/Liverpool currently do, but Pep was a marquee transfer comparable to as if we had signed someone highly sought after talent like Pogba/Verratti or whomever, for instance, regardless of how he actually would perform for our club (his stint at Bayern was good, but nothing too exceptional in my view).

What you thought in Germany or as Bayern fan is bit different to saying internationally it changed your club's profile. Especially when, albeit small sample size, people here from all over the world are saying that for us, profile of Bayern before or after Pep didn't change, it is still same, one of the biggest clubs who currently have lot better players than last decade, reflected in more consistent European performances. If you compare it with a big transfer, I get the point but then it is bit like when we got di Maria or Pogba. We could compete financially before too but we had a different model under SAF and it gave success. We didn't need to go head-to-head with Real Madrid or big clubs for transfers(though probability of winning transfer war was still less due to other factors). Bayern probably didn't often go for biggest manager outside (depending on availability, fit etc) but they had and have their own way of running club and given how big they are than any other club in Germany, they can rely on finest domestically to choose them. Then towards end of last decade and start of this decade, Bayern as a team improved, coinciding with Germany being back at top talent wise of course and brought more success to you. Then Pep came and he being a good coach and team having great players, you remained consistent performance wise. When you something increased profile of your club internationally, the people world over need to see a change in your club which that action brought on how it is viewed.

 

[Trizy]

Look at our results between 2001 and 2009. Look at who we signed. Come back here.

I find your opinion utterly bizarre. We got regularly trashed by absolutely everyone in Europe while the board went on about there not being any value in the market. We lost our only marquee player on a free to Chelsea.


Is Arsenal amongst the European elite for you for the past 10 years?

Maybe they were your poorer years but you were still dominating Germany. The notion Bayern were not elite during that period is false.

Bayern is and also has been the top/biggest 4 clubs in Europe during my time. (United, Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern). AC Milan were on that list but their fall from grace (along with Serie A) is massive.

 

[fcbforever]

Maybe they were your poorer years but you were still dominating Germany. The notion Bayern were not elite during that period is false.

Bayern is and also has been the top/biggest 4 clubs in Europe during my time. (United, Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern). AC Milan were on that list but their fall from grace (along with Serie A) is massive.

If your time began in 2010, yes.
And no, we werenÄt even dominating Germany during that period. We didn't even make the Champions league in 2007 and went out of the UEFA cup against Zenit the next year, losing 4:0 in the return leg.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Look at our results between 2001 and 2009. Look at who we signed. Come back here.

I find your opinion utterly bizarre. We got regularly trashed by absolutely everyone in Europe while the board went on about there not being any value in the market. We lost our only marquee player on a free to Chelsea.


Is Arsenal amongst the European elite for you for the past 10 years?

You're right about 2001-2009. But from 2010-2013, like someone already mentioned, you reached 3 of 4 CL finals and won one. By 2013, you were easily the best team on the planet. And that had nothing to do with Pep.

 

[padr81]

So what's your point? He's spent half a billion on players who are not amongst the best in world football?

Eh yeah, just like United, he's spent half a billion on good players but no none of them are amongst the best in the world in their positions. Particularly among those Pep bought. We have 2 or 3 players amongst the best best in the world in their position Silva, KDB and Aguero. How many of Ederson, Walker, Laporte, Stones, Mendy, Sane, Jesus, Bernardo Silva are the best in the world in their positions? There is an argument for Mendy but he's really had at best 2 good seasons.

 

[fcbforever]

You're right about 2001-2009. But from 2010-2013, like someone already mentioned, you reached 3 of 4 CL finals and won one. By 2013, you were easily the best team on the planet. And that had nothing to do with Pep.

Cool story. But for the clubs prestige, for a team which just had lost 2 CL finals in 3 years after being absolutely pointless for allmost the whole decade before that, it still was a big deal to get him in 2012. And that's all I was saying.

 

[Random Task]

Look at our results between 2001 and 2009. Look at who we signed. Come back here.

I find your opinion utterly bizarre. We got regularly trashed by absolutely everyone in Europe while the board went on about there not being any value in the market. We lost our only marquee player on a free to Chelsea.


Is Arsenal amongst the European elite for you for the past 10 years?

Were they ever? Arsenal are one of the biggest clubs in England (top 5 or 6) due to their domestic success, but they have never won a European trophy and their recognition worldwide has taken a hit as a result of that. In terms prestige, a football club is best measured by their success (or lack thereof) in Europe, and Bayern just so happen to be one European competition's most successful clubs. They may have stumbled through various periods in their history (show me a football club that hasn't in that regard and I'll show you a flying pig) but their strike rate in Europe is bettered only by Real Madrid.

The following link will explain far better than I ever could http://www.worldfootball.net/alltime_table/champions-league/

As a sidenote, the team Pep inherited upon arrival at Bayern was already one of the best in Europe.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Cool story. But for the clubs prestige, for a team which just had lost 2 CL finals in 3 years after being absolutely pointless for allmost the whole decade before that, it still was a big deal to get him in 2012. And that's all I was saying.

Nice way of thinking about a successful period of your history. Never knew Bayern were viewed as such a small time club.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Football 365 really upping their defense of Pep this week in particular. Today they AGAIN managed to crowbar Mourinho into their defence of Guardiola and the injustice they feel that he's getting.

Poor sod

 

[NinjaZombie]

Eh yeah, just like United, he's spent half a billion on good players but no none of them are amongst the best in the world in their positions. Particularly among those Pep bought. We have 2 or 3 players amongst the best best in the world in their position Silva, KDB and Aguero. How many of Ederson, Walker, Laporte, Stones, Mendy, Sane, Jesus, Bernardo Silva are the best in the world in their positions? There is an argument for Mendy but he's really had at best 2 good seasons.

So how many of the world's best players must Guardiola have in order to beat Liverpool over two legs in a CL tie? I think it's weird to be defending Guardiola by saying he doesn't have more than 2-3 of the world's best players in his team. Which manager in history has had that?

 

[Acheron]

That headline.. be honest, which one of you was it?

Spoiler

http://baldfraudstatus.com/

 

[padr81]

So how many of the world's best players must Guardiola have in order to beat Liverpool over two legs in a CL tie? I think it's weird to be defending Guardiola by saying he doesn't have more than 2-3 of the world's best players in his team. Which manager in history has had that?

Again with the making shit up, what is it with some on this forum...

Where have I said he needs more or less of the worlds best players... jeez... or even used it to defend him.
Do you even know what my original quote that you were so quick to jump on was in reply to? Pretty sure it was Pexo or whatever his name is saying "Great manager, amazing what you can achieve with the best players in world" or something like that. My reply "he doesn't have the best players in the world in any position except maybe KDB" because you know.. he doesn't.

Whats beating Liverpool or other manager throughout history got to do with that... you've just charged in on a comment with no clue or context what it was referring to, then went off on a tangent of gibberish talking about something no one has said...

The funny thing is if I came on here and said "We're so good at City, lots of the best players in the world", the same crew on the forum who whine about me saying we haven't would be like "feck off, DDG>Ederson, Valencia>Walker, Bailly>Otamendi etc... trying to prove that wrong..."

 

[robinamicrowave]

Nice and quiet in here, I see.

 

[padr81]

Nice and quiet in here, I see.

In fairness Pep learned from his mistakes and nailed it with his formation change tonight. Maybe now he'll learn theres a time to be pragmatic and play on the counter.

 

[breakout67]

Nice and quiet in here, I see.

What do you want people to say? Well done for taking advantage of a defensive line at the centre circle

Considering City have had the title wrapped up for a while, their league games are largely irrelevant. Of course there was the derby, which was a fantastic game of two halves. Since it's a united forum, it's basically a wait for the transfer window to see how City improve their players.

 

[Karel Podolsky]

See? That’s wrong. You have given so little shits about us in the 2000‘s that you didn’t even notice how irrelevant we had become. This is exactly this retroactive appliance of today’s image of the club I‘m speaking about. No one, absolutely no one, considered us amongst the European elite during that period.

Like United now?

 

[VivaJesperBlomqvist]

Pep is the ultimate fake humble coach who has pulled the wool over the media's eye. I honestly consider him more arrogant than Mourinho. At least Mour wears how he feels on his sleeve

 

[borrays]

Nice and quiet in here, I see.

Hey i want to reply to fcbforever but he's got banned. Tbf i find most city fan here are quite sensible, especially @padr81 heck i'm not even sure if he's a real city fan. far too sensible

 

[padr81]

Hey i want to reply to fcbforever but he's got banned. Tbf i find most city fan here are quite sensible, especially @padr81 heck i'm not even sure if he's a real city fan. far too sensible

Eh... thanks I think... I can assure you I'm a City fan, I just don't hate United or any other club for that matter.

 

[Ban]

Eh... thanks I think... I can assure you I'm a City fan, I just don't hate United or any other club for that matter.

You're easily one of my favorite oppo posters.

 

[padr81]

Pep is the ultimate fake humble coach who has pulled the wool over the media's eye. I honestly consider him more arrogant than Mourinho. At least Mour wears how he feels on his sleeve

Of course he's arrogant, so is Jose, so is Klopp, Ancelotti. Same with top players, anyone who thinks Messi has no ego and Ronaldo is arrogant... Some people are just better at faking it. You don't make it to the top at anything without being arrogant and dare I say insecure at the same time. Pep uses fake humility, Jose uses fake arrogance and Klopp fakes being the average Joe that got a football manager job. They are all arrogant, all confident and in Pep and Jose in particular insecure at the same time. I find Conte the most honest of all the top coaches and the one who gives off his real personality in interviews most.

 

[PepG]

Congrats to Pep for his first Premier League title! He has 3 consecutive with Barcelona and 3 consecutive with Bayern Munchen. Is this the first one from 3 consecutive titles with Manchester City also!? I dont know. One thing is for sure - his team will get better next season. Will the opposition be better ?!

 

[padr81]

Congrats to Pep for his first Premier League title! He has 3 consecutive with Barcelona and 3 consecutive with Bayern Munchen. Is this the first one from 3 consecutive titles with Manchester City also!? I dont know. One thing is for sure - his team will get better next season. Will the opposition be better ?!

Of course they will, I expect us to be better next season but maybe not pick up as many points. A huge amount depends on Chelsea/Liverpool though.

 

[Raw]

The first bald manager to win the league