Manchester Arena Bombing 22.05.17

SteveJ said:
Both of those quotes reveal utterly selfish motives before anything else.
Click to expand...

Indeed. both utterly thick quotes.

Is that really the "best metaphor" he could come up with as well - a comparison to exiting a sauna? If it wasnt so tragic it is absolutely comic.

And people sign up for this shit after lsitening to that nonsense. Unbelievable.
 
Kentonio said:
Yaya Toure is donating £100k.
Click to expand...
Hopefully between both clubs they can donate a lot.

Many of the victims will need expensive medical care for a long time.

And families of the victims deserve a personal memorial.
 
2cents said:
I'm not sure why you're doubting Nasrallah's sincerity on this matter, he's clearly speaking about something he not only believes in deeply, but something that delights him to discuss.

I think your mistake is to assume that 'religion', 'politics', 'personal motives', etc. are all exclusive categories which can be considered in isolation from each other, when in fact that is a particularly modern, Western idea with little applicability in these cases. For these people there is nothing inherently hypocritical or insincere about, say, profiting personally from what you believe God's will to be. In fact as true believers that is their reward.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the interesting replies, mate.

Para 1: It's just that in the context of recent events, that 'delight' seems awful...

Para 2: I don't mean to sound harsh or flippant but if 'everything is permitted' for a follower, well, what is religion without a moral centre or foundation? Nothing but vested power.
 
RedMist99 said:
BBC has just confirmed the worst of what we feared.

A friend's brother is among those who lost their life.

Someone here reposted a Tweet yesterday made by Dan Hett about the Telegraph posting through his door. Can't imagine what he's going through now.

RIP Martyn
Click to expand...
So sorry to hear this. He was friends with several of my friends, I absolutely loved his Deirdre tattoo. RIP
 
Anyone find all the reporting about the homeless guys a bit odd? Like, they're humans. They're either gonna help or run for their lives, like everyone else. It's like they're making out it's surprising they would help because they're homeless.
 
I've just read that Chelsea have cancelled their victory parade on Sunday and will be making donation to the fund. They are also wearing black armbands on Saturday.
 
RedMist99 said:
BBC has just confirmed the worst of what we feared.

A friend's brother is among those who lost their life.

Someone here reposted a Tweet yesterday made by Dan Hett about the Telegraph posting through his door. Can't imagine what he's going through now.

RIP Martyn
Click to expand...
No words. RIP
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Police and armed troops are at this moment raiding a block of flats in Central Manchester.
On Granby Row near Piccadilly Train Station I think.
Click to expand...
Jesus. Thankfully I'm on the other side of town. Was half expecting to see troops outside Oxford Road station this morning after there being armed police there yesterday.
 
Zlatattack said:
I know this will sound bad, but surely prison is the solution then? Seperate prisons for known extremists.

It's a slippery slope though. I could hold the most abhorant views but i don't deserve to be imprisoned for them. However if i'd spent months in a terrorist training camp and there was proof that I had, then i should be locked up.
Click to expand...

You can't imprison people who haven't committed any crime (although going training in Syria is a crime). What we need to do is come down harder on those who prepare and commit these attacks and especially those who turn a blind eye to them. Too many people think standing by their community matters more than the country and society. Unfortunately the current social climate won't allow any of that and we'll all be back here saying the same things the next time an attack happens.
 
2cents said:
Reading a post like this I wonder just what ISIS and the other jihadi groups have to do for some folk to take them and their vision for the world seriously.
Click to expand...
This insane assholes keeping plowing through people with trucks, blowing buildings, beheading people, using nail bombs at children. But they aren't terrorist, just misguided people who aren't happy with themselves. Unbelievable.

As someone pointed, of course it's insane to consider texts of thousands of years as a literal guide to faith. But religion is not based on reason.

Even Christianity had a "revisionism" with the New Testament, from the Savage God from the Old one. The quran is actually the contrary. With the passage form Mecca to Medina, Muhammad went increasingly violent and spread the military mentality seen in Muslim narrative today.

There are a majority of muslims that live well and are part of the society (like the people I've met until today), but even a minority is capable of pulling shit like that, time and time again. To simply carry on like nothing happen, and show them "bravery", is a very risky strategy.
 
QuackQuack said:
I've just read that Chelsea have cancelled their victory parade on Sunday and will be making donation to the fund. They are also wearing black armbands on Saturday.
Click to expand...
Great gestures by Chelsea.
 
Ban said:
I know people should go on with their lives and all and I don't expect them to talk about this the whole time. But I can't feel anything but despise for a colleague who has happily put a profile pic of her in Barcelona with a Desigual bag walking around. Of course 2 other colleagues have commented something like Desigual rules or whatever. Not a worry in their lives or her life.
Tomorrow morning I'll need to hear about it, they'll all happily listen to her beautiful stories. At most she'll say it's terrible what happened in Manchester but in 2nd sentence she'll comment on the big themes, like which chocolate does she like best or which new ice cream is out.

Maybe it's just me but people are so stupid. So so stupid.
Click to expand...
this is a bit (very) OTT
 
I think we have to be honest at look at probable cause. It's an evil act, comitted by someone with a distorted, fecked up ideology. I don't think it's entirely due to misconstrued religious doctrine, nor is it entirely as a result of foreign policy. I think it's a mixture. The guy "showed his evil face" to his Immam, when he preached against ISIS. So... he was sympathetic to ISIS. So sympathetic that he was prepared to die for it and take a lot of innocent young lives with him. You have to look at his background, look at the things that influenced him, look at what drives ISIS, in order to try to understand. Only if we understand can we hope to prevent similar attrocities being committed in future. I'm sorry to break it to you - but that means thinking about politics, at least as much as about religion.
 
QuackQuack said:
I've just read that Chelsea have cancelled their victory parade on Sunday and will be making donation to the fund. They are also wearing black armbands on Saturday.
Click to expand...

I'd imagine they've been advised to avoid giving reason for thousands of fans to line the streets and that it is to avoid further stretching the overloaded police force in London as much as anything else.
 
SteveJ said:
Para 2: I don't mean to sound harsh or flippant but if 'everything is permitted' for a follower, well, what is religion without a moral centre or foundation? Nothing but vested power.
Click to expand...

Who said "everything is permitted"? The jihadi groups with global appeal, including even ISIS, have a strong moral/ethical content to their ideology which I think most Westerners fail to take seriously. It's completely at odds with our own, of course, but it's there nonetheless and it makes (heavily contested) claims on issues and questions that go back into early Islamic thought and history.

What makes the Islamic State Islamic is not the name they give themselves, or the idea that they are actually correct in their interpretation of Islamic doctrine (which is not something non-Muslims can really determine in any case). It's that they justify their actions with reference to a number of continuing, centuries-old debates which have shaped intra-Islamic discourse as it stands at this point. Their particular stance on many of these issues, especially as they relate to the legitimate use of violence, places them on the periphery of these debates; but the claims they make are couched in the same rhetorical world, and make appeals to the same basic body of authoritative texts deemed legitimate by all (Sunni) Muslims.
 
K2K said:
You also have to feel sorry for her too.

The emotional guilt will linger with her for a long time as Rado mentioned, even though it is entirely not her fault.
Click to expand...
Yeah of course, and it's not helped by the Daily Mails article about her being a target because of how she dresses.
 
QuackQuack said:
I've just read that Chelsea have cancelled their victory parade on Sunday and will be making donation to the fund. They are also wearing black armbands on Saturday.
Click to expand...

John Terry will still find a way to make it about him...
 
RedMist99 said:
BBC has just confirmed the worst of what we feared.

A friend's brother is among those who lost their life.

Someone here reposted a Tweet yesterday made by Dan Hett about the Telegraph posting through his door. Can't imagine what he's going through now.

RIP Martyn
Click to expand...
So sad to hear about this
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I can understand that point of view but it's hard to ignore that there's only one religion that currently provides such an effective outlet for these destructive tendencies. As a society we should do our best to improve the lives of disenfranchised youths as much as possible - so they feel less hopeless - but that's going to be an ongoing challenge for generations.

Meanwhile, do we ignore the way these destructive tendencies are being channelled? Or should we also try to address that issue in parallel? Seems like common sense to me, although I don't know the best way to address it. Reformation from within seems the most obvious but, again, I'm not enough of a thelogian to know how this should be done or if it's even possible.
Click to expand...

Your assertion is simply not true.

For example: Bush, bLiar and Trump have all used interpretations from their Christian faith as moral justification for their own murderous acts of war or terrorism (depending on which lens you choose to view their acts).

A very cursory and simple google search will also highlight many other examples.
 
SteveJ said:
That's entirely self-defeating logic, and undermines the idea that others should follow suit in beliefs & actions; it smacks of politics rather than anything 'higher'.
Click to expand...
Religion is not exactly logical, and in one's relation to a god, the individual is always looking for his salvation or reward.
 
Danillaco said:
Religion is not exactly logical, and in one's relation to a god, the individual is always looking for his salvation or reward.
Click to expand...
Yep....

"You mean... I can just evict these people and take their land???"
"Yep! My imaginary friend says it's fine because your are one of the chosen people and he always planned for you to have it."

"You mean... If I blow myself and scores of innocent people to kingdom come I will be rewarded in the next life? Really? Come on!"
"Yep! It is written! Go ahead. Would you like some help?"
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Completely unimportant, in the grand scheme of things but I wonder how many City fans will be going against all their natural inclinations and rooting for a United win tonight, to bring some joy to the city? I know I'd be hoping City won if they were in the final instead of us. Stuff like this makes derby vitriol seem strange. The supporters of the two teams have so more much in common with each other than any other club in the league.
Click to expand...


I was on blue moon last night and a good bit of them, maybe a third, said they'd be rooting for us.
 
sammsky1 said:
Your assertion is simply not true.

For example: Bush, bLiar and Trump have all used interpretations from their Christian faith as moral justification for their own murderous acts of war or terrorism (depending on which lens you choose to view their acts).

A very cursory and simple google search will also highlight many other examples.
Click to expand...

Here's how I would explain the role of Christianity in helping rationalize stuff like the Iraq War, and in modern Western life generally:







The idea that 'the West' is uniquely secular simply doesn't hold when we examine some of the assumptions and language underlying Western liberalism.
 
Last edited:
RedTiger said:
@fellaini's barber
The suicide bomber thing can be tackled, the Sinhalese managed to stop Tamil suicide bombers didn't they?
Click to expand...

Point I'm trying to make is that what the suicide thingy is what sets Islamic terrorists apart from other murdering shitheads, and is what makes them the most dangerous and difficult to stop. It was mainly directed at people who constantly claim that these things have nothing to do with Islam, being rewarded for dying in the name of Allah, however these bastards chose to interpret it has everything to do with islam
 
Still can't believe they deliberately went after our daughters. Young innocents.
 
MaxiPaxi said:
I was on blue moon last night and a good bit of them, maybe a third, said they'd be rooting for us.
Click to expand...
There's two City fans in my office, one said she already wanted us to win but her husband is a red, the other said given what's gone on it'd be nice for the City if we won but he can't quite bring himself to actually root for us, he'll pretty much be happy whatever happens. I'd probably be the same as him if it was them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.