Whilst a good post, it makes a fundamental mistake.
His story does not concern 'the origin of Man Utd' which, as a term, predates all the events discussed - it does tell us an origin of it being disliked as a term though.
Man Utd?
- Thread starter edison
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Whilst a good post, it makes a fundamental mistake.
His story does not concern 'the origin of Man Utd' which, as a term, predates all the events discussed - it does tell us an origin of it being disliked as a term though.
Except it has nothing to do with Duncan Edwards so is fundamentally flawed in it's premise!
It laid out (honestly I believe) the kind of story that has arisen to explain some fans' antipathy to the term 'Man Utd' whereas many long-term committed fans have used it from early on. In that sense it did its job well - yet the flaw I mentioned did affect all areas really.
However, the general idea, that Utd fans have seen 'Man Utd' as a term employed by our 'enemies' in a constructed insult and hence dislike it, has been consistent over a few years. There seems to be a trend of connecting it to a Munich-related taunt as well.
Does that make sense?
Why do you all keep saying this. In all my 20 odd years in Manchester, going to OT a thousand times and supporting them for 50 odd years I have NEVER EVER heard Manchester based fans call United, Man Utd. Never ever. Ever.
are you trying to say because you have never heard it that it doesnt happen?
I have heard Manchester based fans using the term Man Utd and there are many other posters in this thread who say the same or even use it themselves - nothing wrong with it as far as I am concerned
The list of players that have used it is growing:
best
robson
bruce
ferdinand
sharpe
sherringham
I was replying to
"whereas many long-term committed fans have used it from early
on."
NOT a fact.
The players are not fans. Most of them come from ABU backgrounds. If you're based in Manchester and you call United 'Man Utd' then you're a pillock.
Hope that helps.
Im not sure why I am spending so much time defending this term seeing as I never use it, but I just find the whole thing a bit ridiculous to be honest - I put it in the same category as all the 'PC gone mad' type stories
cafitis
Im not sure why I am spending so much time defending this term seeing as I never use it, but I just find the whole thing a bit ridiculous to be honest - I put it in the same category as all the 'PC gone mad' type stories
Could we just stick to United, or MUFC, or Manchester United, I remember ther was thread in last year why we should n't be using Man Utd or Manchester,
Lot of teh older supporter might find this offensive as they had chants slanged at them and when we use the term using Man Utd it reminds them of that.
I dont mind people using whatever as long as united is at heart, but lets just keep some sort of courtesy and respect for our senior and older supporters.
Lot of teh older supporter might find this offensive as they had chants slanged at them and when we use the term using Man Utd it reminds them of that.
I dont mind people using whatever as long as united is at heart, but lets just keep some sort of courtesy and respect for our senior and older supporters.
Nice one sonny, who's got the keys to my zimmer?
The funny thing is that if you read this thread you will see there are many 'senior and older supporters' who say there is nothing wrong with using 'Man Utd'
I can't be arsed reading 5 pages of a thread dedicated to a discussion of the term Man Utd.
I will however offer my 2 cents.
I use "Man Utd" from time to time because, being in Canada, people sometimes think "Man United" is some type of sexist organization. I'm not even kidding, I've had so many dirty looks.
I will however offer my 2 cents.
I use "Man Utd" from time to time because, being in Canada, people sometimes think "Man United" is some type of sexist organization. I'm not even kidding, I've had so many dirty looks.
I understand that there some people believe that there is a connection.
But as a Manchester United historian, particularly relating to the Youth element, of which the Busby Babes were an intrinsic part, I have undertaken extensive research into that period of our past.
Firstly, the whole country was in mourning. The WBA directors spoke to the FA and proposed to give United a bye in the next round of the Cup. In other words, the WBA club were so upset by the events at Munich, they were willing to forfeit the game.
Numerous clubs were willing to give us players, with Liverpool and Nottingham Forest the forerunners. In the end it was Aston Villa, who would have been in the running for Duncan's signature, who persuaded Stan Crowther to 'help us out'.
When Duncan died a few days later, as an integral part of the England team, the nation was devastated.
On the way to Wembley in 1958 there was a wave of sympathy that lasted over 18 months.
There was no report of anyone denigrating the life of Duncan Edwards in any way. Anyone saying anything like this would have been virtually treated as an outcast.
Duncan signed as a 15 year old in 1952. Most WBA and United fans would never had heard of him. So much so that Busby in his programme notes took time out to explain who he was and how he was so fantastic. When he made his debut in 1953, it came out of nowhere. So how WBA would know and also care about us signing someone who hadn't achieved anything up to that point is totally bizarre.
There was very little information about youth football at the time, the FA Youth Cup had not been invented, and United were one of the few clubs (after starting the MUJAC's in 1938) who would write about the Youth sides.
In 1954, after winning the FAYC twice and also the prestigious Blue Stars Tournament in Switzerland, United's youth policy started to get a lot of recognition. Many teams copied United's policy from this point.
So when a thread starts that WBA fans started calling United 'Man Utd' as a derogatory comment about Duncan, it doesn't add up.
What does make sense is post Munich, particularly with Burnley, after a couple of incredibly spiteful games which earned Mark Pearson the title of 'Teddy Boy' that there was a general dislike to some of our players and also the club. There was an intense hatred and rivalry going around at this time.
Certain clubs/supporters seemed jealous of the fact that United were attracting such a large following - in their opinion - only due to sympathy after Munich.
However, there are no published reports to my knowledge (and obviously I wasn't there at the time), about anyone or any club bringing up Duncan's name in some form of negative song or comment.
Where the term 'Man Utd' came from I have no idea as I was not researching that at the time. It is certainly used in Munich taunts today as you mention.....
Man C aren't as Kaka as we thought they were going to be.
Nice little piece there Mujac. Have you compiled any of your history?
Yes.....a book about the history of United's Youth team with facts, statistics, biographies and loads of photographs will be coming out later this year.
Other stuff is on my laptop in various forms as well as a pretty large memorabilia collection.
It's a shame more is not on the web
I must admit it sounds a lot like reactonary snobbery to me. The taste of the established is in itself a value, and young peoples slang is a sign of laziness and disrespect. I don't buy it, and see it as discomfort at others breaking your own habits and a marker used to single out the in crowd from the out crowd.
Actually the graffiti of the late 60's and early 70's I personally recall (and "may" have subscribed to on occasion) is
MUFC Rules
OK
...and another thing, I could be wrong, but don't think you'll find any chants or songs (that we sing / sang) that use or used the term Man Utd.
Probably not...but the issue for me is that the term was once used affectionately by some supporters, including local ones, and it pisses me off that it was hijacked, turned into abuse, and we let it happen.
Apart from that....hi Grunge.
Long time, no chat.Have you guys ever heard SAF refer to us as "Man Utd" ?? Never!
That isn't the point. The majority of supporters don't use it. The point is that it's become a term of abuse but wasn't always.
because it is not proper name of our club.
OK, we will always refer to the team as Manchester United from now on - no abbreviation.
The point is totally being missed here.
Man Utd is not a term that's popular, but it isn't always meant as a term of abuse. Players have used it, and there are plenty of supporters who do/have, including Manchester born ones. This dictatorial attitude creates internal fighting and ABUs must love it.
Not true Livvie dearOK, we will always refer to the team as Manchester United from now on - no abbreviation.
The point is totally being missed here.
Man Utd is not a term that's popular, but it isn't always meant as a term of abuse. Players have used it, and there are plenty of supporters who do/have, including Manchester born ones. This dictatorial attitude creates internal fighting and ABUs must love it.
Actually I heard older supporters use it, and some of them saw the Babes. Some still use it today.
I am just some foreign git, and I am sure that years ago I have used it on occasion. But as soon as I learned that some of my fellow United fans found it offensive I stopped, and now dislike the term. But if a Mancunian wants to use it, especially someone who followed the club longer then I have been alive I wont be so arrogant and try to correct him. Who the feck am I? But I will tell some kid. The term pisses off many of our fellow fans, so if nothing else, for that reason alone we should try not to use it. Yes, the ABU's may have high-jacked it from older supporters. But it now makes them happy whenever they hear a United fans say it/write it. So instead lets just use terms that piss them off. When on a general football board I always make sure to just type "United." To some fans Man Utd may not be or even sound offensive. But it does have offensive meaning to ABUs. So why help them? We don't see LCF fans call themselves "pile," or Arsenal fans "Arse."
Anyway, I don't presume to tell anyone how they should call the club they claim to love and support, just my two pence.
I am just some foreign git, and I am sure that years ago I have used it on occasion. But as soon as I learned that some of my fellow United fans found it offensive I stopped, and now dislike the term. But if a Mancunian wants to use it, especially someone who followed the club longer then I have been alive I wont be so arrogant and try to correct him. Who the feck am I? But I will tell some kid. The term pisses off many of our fellow fans, so if nothing else, for that reason alone we should try not to use it. Yes, the ABU's may have high-jacked it from older supporters. But it now makes them happy whenever they hear a United fans say it/write it. So instead lets just use terms that piss them off. When on a general football board I always make sure to just type "United." To some fans Man Utd may not be or even sound offensive. But it does have offensive meaning to ABUs. So why help them? We don't see LCF fans call themselves "pile," or Arsenal fans "Arse."
Anyway, I don't presume to tell anyone how they should call the club they claim to love and support, just my two pence.
Thats not an argument anyways, since "Man Utd" is not something used by our club. I know its become a term of abuse, but it would still be wrong to use "Man Utd" even so.
this is all correct
Man Who?
No they don't. The only people that use, or have ever used, Man Utd, are ABU's in England, foreign supporters and some United supporters in England but not in Manchester. Never heard a regular matchgoing fan talk of Man Utd.
Sorry BR don't want to start a fight. But some years back on another board there was a similar discussion and it was split between the older Mancunians. Most of the lads who used to run with the Red Army hated it and would never use it, and always made sure that those who did were corrected. But some of the older supporters said it was ok and that they used it themselves. And no these were not some wums. I also heard some use it in conversation. There were older people, who, as I mentioned, saw the Babes, or started following in the early 60's. Those who followed from 65 on, in my experience, never use it.
I don't presume to speak for everyone, maybe I just met weirdos, but that it my experience with Mancunians, limited as it is.
Leave it out Bahama - there is plenty of evidence in this thread to the contrary.
Just because you have never heard it, doesnt mean it didnt happen.
Or pillocks, as I said earlier.
Obviously someone somewhere said Man Utd. Just that no matchgoing fan ever used it.
Yes folks all over England and the World who have never been to OT and just read the papers (some of which use it in their reports, especially in the Far East)...use it.
I was around from the 50's at OT...twice a week most weeks for 20 odd years. Man Utd was never used at any time for anything. I asked my pa on the phone today....he started going to OT in the late 30's ....he just laughed.
Papa Bahama? Brilliant !
I am quite happy for you to say that you have never come across any matchgoing fans who use the term but to try and claim that you know for certain that none of the 50/60/70,000 matchgoing fans over the decades have ever used the term is a bit ridiculous to be honest.
what the feck are you doing on here? feck off you cock stain. if you have to ask then you are a disgrace.
https://www.truck-t-shirt.com/userimages/feckOff(1).jpg
I've heard older supporters who sound to be in their 50s or 60s, or even older, use the terms when they've called in to MUTV. Because of the controversy that now surrounds the term, it rather stuck out.