Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

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Of course it has to be a former player. Manchester United can't be the only dummy not to appoint a guy who has breathed and lived football there. Would be insanely stupid.

Screw the Monchis and whatever other names are popping up. Has to be a club legend.
 
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There is no point to this if Woodward can interfere and override the DoF's decisions as well. Need a complete separation of Church and State at the club for this to work well.
 
Let's throw a bunch of cash to persuade Zidane to be our first DoF. :D

Well respected by footballers and extensive footballing knowledge.
 
Kapardin said:
There is no point to this if Woodward can interfere and override the DoF's decisions as well. Need a complete separation of Church and State at the club for this to work well.
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I am fine with Woodwards involvement as far as Financial Feasibility of any deal is concerned.
 
7even said:
Yes. The candidate with the right profile should have the authority to “boss” anyone, including Mourinho. Now I don’t have any personal experience regarding Southgate but if the club find he fit the profile then your question is without foundation.
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So Mourinho will go to Gareth and say, "I need a 29 yo center back, so I can play 3 at the back." What is the approved range of the GS responses?

1. "Utd plays 442 only. You have to play 442."
2. "Great idea! Let me get you (all the players Mourinho asked for originally, making the DoF position superfluous)".
3. "Varane is a great defender. Let's wait for him to become available." And nothing happens.
4. "We need better attackers instead. Let's go for --- instead, you'll just have to make it work."
5. "The board don't want to spend any money or sell anyone. You'll have to make due."

I'm not seeing that you're doing much more that making a not-particularly great manager the boss of a world class manager. Because?

Btw, find me a better candidate with the right credentials.
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What problem are you trying to fix?
 
steffyr2 said:
So Mourinho will go to Gareth and say, "I need a 29 yo center back, so I can play 3 at the back." What is the approved range of the GS responses?

1. "Utd plays 442 only. You have to play 442."
2. "Great idea! Let me get you (all the players Mourinho asked for originally, making the DoF position superfluous)".
3. "Varane is a great defender. Let's wait for him to become available." And nothing happens.
4. "We need better attackers instead. Let's go for --- instead, you'll just have to make it work."
5. "The board don't want to spend any money or sell anyone. You'll have to make due."

I'm not seeing that you're doing much more that making a not-particularly great manager the boss of a world class manager. Because?



What problem are you trying to fix?
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Thanks for taking time and giving your input. But unfortunately we don’t speak the same language and I suspect we have different experience regarding professional management.
 
Since when did people start believing the media so blindly? The same media who told us we were going to get Alderweild, Maguire etc, the same media with 'sources' that have been proven time and time again to be wrong.

I'll believe it when I see it.
 
Copying a comment from someone who has shown at least vague ITK creds.



I’m fairly sure that the press have been briefed on this but aren’t writing about it because it’s off the record, but here’s what I was told:

  1. The club is much further ahead with DOF than the article makes it seem. It was raised as being necessary before Mourinho presented his summer 2018 transfer targets which I think would have been just after the January window.

  2. In relation to the names you and I have heard: the club is methodical with this sort of project and they are calibrating their search very carefully by speaking to a lot of elite clubs, and their sporting directors / DOFs. We have very good relationships with most top clubs, and have been leaning on one in particular to help post-Fergie (they are seen as responsible for the decision to bring in Giggs after Moyes, Butt into the youth team, etc.). It’s therefore difficult to know whether the names we're hearing are bona fide candidates or people we're asking questions of.

  3. Ferguson ran the club in an outdated way. There is a view that he could have modernised more thoroughly and we would not have had a lean final few years in Europe. The club briefed on this in Moyes’s season specifically regarding scouting. The DOF discussion came up then, too.

  4. Mourinho is not much better than Ferguson on this: he’s not leaning on the scouting team as heavily as he should, and he’s not signing players for the next 5-10 years. Woodward has openly told the press he doesn't believe Mourinho's transfer targets were any better than the current crop of players.

  5. Context on how the DOF fits with Mourinho: basically the club doesn’t care as long as he doesn't immediately resign. Mourinho has burned a lot of good will and the club feels like it’s in a strong position. They had originally hoped for him to be a “dynastic” manager but were prepared for him to only do 4 or 5 years. The current thinking is that whilst he may surprise everyone, and there is genuine optimism for a title challenge this season, we are now almost certainly more than midway through his tenure as manager. There has been an acceptance over the last 6 months in particular that the status quo will not last.

  6. The short termism the club briefed on in his transfer policy is not the only issue. Mourinho keeps talking about being “unhappy with conditions,” and it’s widely known.

  7. Woodward has far, far greater security of tenure at the club than Mourinho. It means he can and will plan for the long term, and the long term is not Mourinho.[/Quote
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He then went on to say the person we leaned on wasn't Zorc but was in the same league.
 
Football has moved on from one person essentially overseeing everything at a football club at the top level. There’s too much pressure on teams to do well these days that it would be unfair to put it all on the shoulders of one man. I’ve always wondered whether that system which we’ve employed even after Sir Alex retired, has put off managers from coming to us?

“So you want me to have a relatively hands on approach on the youth setup, employ the transfer policy as well as deal with the first team matters? And my only point of contact is Woodward? No way...I’m going to Real/Barca/Bayern/Other where I just look after the first team and no amount of money can make me take that Utd job”
 
7even said:
Thanks for taking time and giving your input. But unfortunately we don’t speak the same language and I suspect we have different experience regarding professional management.
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So you don't have the foggiest idea how it would work then. OK.
 
I don't think the timing is great and he wouldn't do it anyway, but Gary Neville is the clear option when it comes to a link between the business and footballing aspects, with acute knowledge of the game. I think DoF type role would be much better match for him than traditional coaching roles (as has been seen previously).
 
We could have a committee of directors instead of just one man. Ideally a diverse committee of all backgrounds, expertise and whatnot. Hopefully they can all come together on decisions and be on the same page.

Hypothetically you could have one of the ex Utd players in there who specialises in what’s going on the youth setup, someone from the continent who has experience of DoF duties and knows what’s going on, on the continent and can dictate a play style and senior transfer policy whilst liasing with the international scouting team and possibly then you could have a non footballing persona involved who can negotiate appointments/transfers on behalf of the club and manage the first team budget (theyd get the best deal possible for Utd whether it be selling or buying players).
 
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Monchi would be my choice

proven, great experience of Spanish, Italian leagues, seems to have strong links to South America and Sevilla/Roma both play fast attacking football

Michael Zorc is another contender - Rangnik has done well at Red Bull I understand too
 
Zorc's out of contract in 2019. I don't know if he'd leave Dortmund but he'd be an interesting candidate
 
Seanus said:
Mino Raiola :D
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To be fair he does seem to find excellent talent while they're still young. Donnaruma, Pogba.. And is obviously a top class negotiator

Would probably be good at a role like that if he wasn't making about 2000x as much as an agent
 
Give it to Giggsy until the end of the season!

For the love of God no. Terrible idea. I'd prefer someone already experienced in that role, the Zorc/Monchi recommendations I'd agree with.

I get people's desire for a United man to get the job but the issue is none spring to mind as excellent candidates. Van Der Sar still loves the club and has executive experience but he's well at home as Managing Director of Ajax, I don't think he'd leave.

I don't think Neville is a necessarily bad idea, but he shouldn't be first option. He has a good head on his shoulders and the clubs best interests at heart and has a head for business too. If he works with a quality manager then it could work out.
 
Dion said:
Copying a comment from someone who has shown at least vague ITK creds.

He then went on to say the person we leaned on wasn't Zorc but was in the same league.
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Where is this from?
 
Dion said:
Copying a comment from someone who has shown at least vague ITK creds.





He then went on to say the person we leaned on wasn't Zorc but was in the same league.
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That could all be cobbled together from stuff that’s been in the papers over the last few weeks. Apart from one or two details, which they don’t seem willing/able to share. Who’s Zorc?
 
Just in time as well. The transfer window's just closed, so he has plenty to do... oh wait...
 
Chairman Steve said:
Football has moved on from one person essentially overseeing everything at a football club at the top level. There’s too much pressure on teams to do well these days that it would be unfair to put it all on the shoulders of one man. I’ve always wondered whether that system which we’ve employed even after Sir Alex retired, has put off managers from coming to us?

“So you want me to have a relatively hands on approach on the youth setup, employ the transfer policy as well as deal with the first team matters? And my only point of contact is Woodward? No way...I’m going to Real/Barca/Bayern/Other where I just look after the first team and no amount of money can make me take that Utd job”
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What managers though?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That could all be cobbled together from stuff that’s been in the papers over the last few weeks. Apart from one or two details, which they don’t seem willing/able to share. Who’s Zorc?
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Zorc is the long time sporting director of Dortmund
 
So bravo for Woodward not managing to employ someone before a critical date. Excellent.

The man is inept at various aspects of his job.

I sincerely hope that the Board have looked to dilute both his and the managers jobs because they're both terrible at specific aspects.
 
Dion said:
Copying a comment from someone who has shown at least vague ITK creds.





He then went on to say the person we leaned on wasn't Zorc but was in the same league.
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The more you read about this, the more it sounds like a proper mess.

Woodward to consult external source of help from outside!? Laughable. How can one help if they're not from the inside thus knowing exactly what the team need?

SAF doesn't lean on scouting system? So now Woodward confessed his habit of backstabbing managers, and even SAF is even a victim!!! It's rich from Woodward though, who is so great in sanction that Rooney contract, one prime example of how well his know how and his contact in football world.

Woodward has more security for his job is already known which me and some other posters pointed at as why it's the first of all change we need to make to reduce his influence in football matter, before installing DOF, football board or whatever. He is exempt from being accounted for football performance while it's clear now from all post SAF managers, he is very involved in every mess this club had been through. As long as him being the key decision maker and can overrule other people, even football people, then we're not safe from stupid decisions against football men. Even Perez can be voted out of office if he doesn't care about the on pitch performance. Woodward was not even joking about he doesn't care about on pitch performance as long as our commercial growth is maintained.
 
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People who want a DOF need a reality check. LVG was a director of football I doubt you'd be OK with him.

This is just a way for Woodward to put a buffer between himself and the managers so he's no longer in the firing line. At the end of the day any DOF will just be a Glazer puppet.

This is an absolute disaster.
 
MadMike said:
Woodward ran the marketing side from 2007. We were already the richest club then. You can consult this table:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes'_list_of_the_most_valuable_football_clubs

In fact between 2013 and 2016, under his stewardship, we dipped below Real and Barca both in terms of total value as a club and in terms of revenue generated.

Woodward is credited with almost tripling the club's commercial revenue from 2007, when he took over his commercial role, to 2012. Which is true and he did a good job, but he didn't do a better job than his peers from what I can see. Football went global and penetrated emerging markets in this last decade, which is where all the growth came from. We were riding a wave and we took a slice of the pie commensurate to our status as club when the wave started.

Again, I'm not saying he did a bad job or that he's not good in the commercial side of business. I'm just putting some perspective into this "commercial genius" saga. A lot hedge fun portfolio managers and CEOs tend to be indiscriminately branded geniuses for generating large profits when they just ride the high waves of their respective markets without delivering a return higher than the next guy in the same position as them. That's not to say that they aren't knowledgeable in their field and don't deserve their jobs, but genius is stretching it.
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Really pleased to see this post placing Woodward's achievements in their context. Possibly a bit of a tangent but it's been a noticeable trend in the last few years for a sizeable proportion of posters on these boards to venerate Woodward as if he were some sort of untouchable business mind.

My suspicion is that this grows out of a combination of the current phase of commercialisation of football (in which teams' fortunes are increasingly linked to the quality and quantity of advertising partnerships) and the football fan's familiar tribalism, the upshot of which is a weird, and largely undertheorised, hyperbolic celebration of the club's allegedly elite business acumen (as a kind of latter-day substitute for cheering the club's sporting success).

For what it's worth it feels to me like it's too some extent part of a wider cultural tendency to report technological and business issues in a breathless, celebrity journalism register that focuses on individual personalities and success stories rather than deeper economic and technical trends, leading to this weird and seemingly increasing tendency (especially among younger generations, in my experience) to deify the likes of Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk etc. as if they are the great minds of our age.

Back to your point (if not the point of the thread), one perhaps notable feature of the period you were reviewing is that the club had broadly kept pace with the likes of Barcelona on a commercial level, while falling far behind on the pitch. Perhaps though you can explain this disparity with reference to a kind of lag between commercial exploitability on the ice hand, and the current glamour of the team's performances on the other, caused by the fact that football fans generally remain faithful to one club. The worrying corollary to this theory would be that we are sitting on a time bomb of future relative unpopularity among a generation of fans growing up watching this era of lesser United teams.
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
That could all be cobbled together from stuff that’s been in the papers over the last few weeks. Apart from one or two details, which they don’t seem willing/able to share. Who’s Zorc?
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Could be, but the user in question somehow had the announcement time of certain things way in advance so I consider it at least worth sharing. He also deleted his years old account after posting it, which is strange.

Zorc is Dortmund's sporting director.
 
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