Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

[devilish]

That is a notion I disagree with cos there shouldn't be a corner that needs defending.

imo, a dof job is to help define and work towards achieving the footballing goals of the club in line with the vision and within the financial means of the club (and any other relevant factors). He should be balancing all relevant interests and factors.

The manager is primarily charged with achieving the footballing goals on the pitch. Thus the DoF should be acting in support of it.

The idea of needing to veto is symptomatic of underlying problems. If you do not trust the manager's judgement, why is he your mansger?

If the DoF is having to 'defend' then he either is not doing his job properly or your goals are not aligned with your manager's. In either case, changes in personnel and/or goals need to be made asap.

No, there is a corner to be defended simply because manager's are neither infallible creatures nor altruistic ones who would put the good of the club ahead of theirs. Apart from the occasional legend, managers tend to

a - put their philosophy first which might not necessarily mean its good for the club. Think of Wenger who refused to spend good money on players even when Arsenal needed to.
b- aim for players who will get them instant success. They can't care less about building for the future because they aren't planning to manage the club for the future
c- surround themselves with players who are loyal to them, even though these players do not make financial sense. Think of Fellaini for Moyes, Bastian for LVG and Matic for Mou

then there are managers who are simply lousy on the transfer market.

The DOFs are football people that are there to make sure that the club is run efficiently and that each and every signing makes sense. Being so detached from what happens on the pitch allows them to see things without any emotions being involved. They will negotiate contracts that truly reflect the player's contribution on the pitch. They make sure that every dime spent isn't wasted and they aim for the long term rather then the short term. For most of the time the DOFs and the manager will work harmoniously together. That's because its within everyone's interest that this would happen. The DOF tend to maximise resources for the manager which would allow him more funds to get players he need. If lets say the manager want a big lump to throw upfront as plan B and the DOF somehow agrees to that, then the club would find someone for 10m to do so instead of 30m. Conte for example had pointed out Emenalo's departure from Chelsea as one of the main reasons why Chelsea struggled during that year. Having said that, its not within the DOF interest for the club to constantly change manager either. That would mean, having to adapt the team to a different style of football, with players leaving and others needed to be signed. That's waste

However, there will be times when they will clash. For example at Juventus, an ageing Del Piero had to access a massive pay cut to remain there. Most managers understand that and it would be business as usual. However like in any job in the world you'll always find mercenary managers who won't. Which explains why some managers will never manage proper clubs like Juventus, Bayern, Barcelona or a properly managed Manchester United and tend to stick to plastic clubs like lets say Real, Inter or Chelsea.

 

[elmo]

Conversely you could argue if it wasn't for Ed and his team working their fecking tripe off for the last 4 or 5 years with sponsorship deals(Ed should have a statue outside Old Trafford for the money he screwed out of Adidas alone) we wouldn't be in the position we are now whereby we can blow practically every other club on the planet out of the water re. transfer fees and wages which has never been the case before......

Bollocks. He's done more harm to the club than he has helped it.

You're seriously underestimating how strong the Manchester United branding is thanks to years of winning understand Sir Alex. He's not even getting us the best deals around, he just happened to get all the deals in just right at the start of the money boom and other clubs in Europe are all getting similaf dealsthat you're praising Woodward for .

Main difference between us and other clubs is that we get way more numbers of sponsors thanks to our stature, nothing to do with Woodward.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

No, there is a corner to be defended simply because manager's are neither infallible creatures nor altruistic ones who would put the good of the club ahead of theirs. Apart from the occasional legend, managers tend to

The good of the club is represented by the goals the manager has been told to achieve. If these goal are not in line with the manager's, then you should hire a different manager. The idea of some human 'legend' is just silly.

a - put their philosophy first which might not necessarily mean its good for the club. Think of Wenger who refused to spend good money on players even when Arsenal needed to.
b- aim for players who will get them instant success. They can't care less about building for the future because they aren't planning to manage the club for the future
c- surround themselves with players who are loyal to them, even though these players do not make financial sense. Think of Fellaini for Moyes, Bastian for LVG and Matic for Mou

A manager deserves the autonomy to go about achieving the set goals with the parameters agreed upon. If manager doesnt want to spend money, or feels he needs a loyalist to help him achieve his set goals, then the DoF should be there to make the best effort to do so.

Whatever characteristics or profile you desire should be established and a suitable manager hired, not to hire a manager and try force him into your vision. The DoF should not try to do the manager's job.

The DOFs are football people that are there to make sure that the club is run efficiently and that each and every signing makes sense. Being so detached from what happens on the pitch allows them to see things without any emotions being involved. They will negotiate contracts that truly reflect the player's contribution on the pitch. They make sure that every dime spent isn't wasted and they aim for the long term rather then the short term. For most of the time the DOFs and the manager will work harmoniously together. That's because its within everyone's interest that this would happen. The DOF tend to maximise resources for the manager which would allow him more funds to get players he need. If lets say the manager want a big lump to throw upfront as plan B and the DOF somehow agrees to that, then the club would find someone for 10m to do so instead of 30m. Conte for example had pointed out Emenalo's departure from Chelsea as one of the main reasons why Chelsea struggled during that year. Having said that, its not within the DOF interest for the club to constantly change manager either. That would mean, having to adapt the team to a different style of football, with players leaving and others needed to be signed. That's waste

The DoF controls the financial side of things but the footballing requirement is the domain of the manager. The DoF should not be deciding what the team needs or does not need, and instead should be making best effort to meet the needs identified by the manager. Assuming fair pricing, if you need a 30m lump, and provide a 10m lump, there is a drop in quality and thus an expected drop on the pitch. If you have a problem with 30m lumps, its much better you dont hire a manager that requires them in the first place.

However, there will be times when they will clash. For example at Juventus, an ageing Del Piero had to access a massive pay cut to remain there. Most managers understand that and it would be business as usual. However like in any job in the world you'll always find mercenary managers who won't.

A difference of opinion is not a clash imo. A clash would be a difference of objectives. Each should respect the role and responsibility of the other.
QUOTE="devilish, post: 23360262, member: 4448"]Which explains why some managers will never manage proper clubs like Juventus, Bayern, Barcelona or a properly managed Manchester United and tend to stick to plastic clubs like lets say Real, Inter or Chelsea.[/QUOTE]Given how the management of clubs has varied over the years, I really dont see how you deem the likes of Juve, Bayern and Barcelona as 'proper' clubs and the likes of Real, Inter and Chelsea as 'plastic' except that looking at the list of clubs shows you are trying to take a pointless dig at Mourinho. (I advise you try not to be so obsessed with him)

Plastic or not, those clubs have a level of success to justify how they have been run and many managers (ancelotti, Capello, Lippi, LvG, Heynckes etc) have managed clubs in each group.

 

[wolvored]

My take on a DOF is a buffer between board and manager. The board appoint the DOF by deciding the idealogy of what they want from the team/squad. The DOF would be someone who identifys with this. For example if you want a high press fast attack style then it wouldnt be any good hiring Mourinho as a DOF. The board would lay out spending parameters which the DOF would work to. He would scout the best manager with the same outlook the club had. Transfers, coaching staff, scouting staff and the youth setup would all fall under his remit, whilst input from the manager would also be a big deciding factor as well.
I do think this will happen once Mourinho has gone, as they have seen close up how it is working really well at City. The fact Woody has rebuilt the youth setup, and invested heavily with a vast scouting network, tends to show this.
The 3 managers just bought in by board/woody choice shows the folly of just doing this again. No structure, no identity, 3 very different managers and all out of their depth to build a decent team/squad to challenge for the 2 major honours.

 

[CA1]

Bollocks. He's done more harm to the club than he has helped it.

You're seriously underestimating how strong the Manchester United branding is thanks to years of winning understand Sir Alex. He's not even getting us the best deals around, he just happened to get all the deals in just right at the start of the money boom and other clubs in Europe are all getting similaf dealsthat you're praising Woodward for .

Main difference between us and other clubs is that we get way more numbers of sponsors thanks to our stature, nothing to do with Woodward.

Correct.

This view that Ed Woodward has sold Manchester United to sponsors is an insult to this clubs history and the great people who have helped build this club over the years.

Woodward has cost this club money with lack of success, lack of consistent top European football, sacking managers all the time. People don't factor in that other clubs are making lots of money as well because that's the financial climate of the Premier League.

Woodward is a disaster at everything he does, mostly the football side of the things but everything. He helped The Glazers take ownership of the club, that is why he's such a trusted advisor.

 

[Johan07]

Woodward is our DoF!
He decides on which managers to hire.
He gets recommendations on players from the head coach and scouts and then decides who to buy and who not to.

This is just not true.

 

[Adisa]

It defies belief he has done anything about this club's structure and aanager that's utterly failing.

 

[vanderpants]

I blame Ed more the anyone even Jose, he lost the plot a while ago and has damaged our club. Just goes to show how good David Gill was, would love him to come back. We shouldn't even be talking about this and Ed and that shows you have fcuked up the current situation is

 

[In Rainbows]

Jardim confirmed for that Saudi Arabian job. That's one less manager to choose from.

Way to go Ed. And that goes for everyone with the "give the manager more time" garbage. Sick of sacking the manager when it's too late and losing potential choices for the next hire.

 

[Judas]

To be fair, Jardim could be already out of the Saudi job by the time Jose gets the sack, it's months away.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Blaming Ed for 3 successive misses, and lack of strategic direction that should be occurring regardless of the manager.

Exactly.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Every week he doesn't sack Jose he becomes more and more culpable.


Jose is up there with one of the worst things to happen to this club. Worse than LVG and fighting for a place for worse than Moyes.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Every week he doesn't sack Jose he becomes more and more culpable.

Jose is up there with one of the worst things to happen to this club. Worse than LVG and fighting for a place for worse than Moyes.

Mourinho has won us a European trophy, a League Cup and got us our highest PL finish since Fergie.

He shouldn't have been given a contract extension last season, but that's not his fault - Woodward gave it to him.

He should've gone in the Summer, but that's not his fault - Woodward kept him on.

Ed Woodward is, without question, the worst thing to happen to Utd in at least 30 years...

The slide of United has all taken place under Woodward, and no-one else.

 

[Mr PG]

arsenal with Emery have done what united have failed to do in 3 yrs. I was opposed to mourinho as coach he just never fit and has never won anything playing expansive football. A panic buy just as Lukaku, Sanchez were. Sanchez we could have waited for the summer as he’d have been free.
I’m defense of mourinho, the reason Ed is not firing him is because he knows he didn’t give him what he asked for. The whole backline for instance needs upgrading regardless of manager.

 

[Patrick08]

arsenal with Emery have done what united have failed to do in 3 yrs. I was opposed to mourinho as coach he just never fit and has never won anything playing expansive football. A panic buy just as Lukaku, Sanchez were. Sanchez we could have waited for the summer as he’d have been free.
I’m defense of mourinho, the reason Ed is not firing him is because he knows he didn’t give him what he asked for. The whole backline for instance needs upgrading regardless of manager.

Its a total myth that whole backline needs needs upgrading. You can put worlds current best players there, they will struggle with Pogba, matic and fellani ahead of them with park the bus strategy everytime opponent receives the ball. Same defense was second best for 3 years straight under lvg and Mourinho for two years. It can't become this crap in 6 months. The midfield is the real problem issue which has been around since 2012 I would say. Even pogba is overated.

 

[Moriarty]

Its a total myth that whole backline needs needs upgrading. You can put worlds current best players there, they will struggle with Pogba, matic and fellani ahead of them with park the bus strategy everytime opponent receives the ball. Same defense was second best for 3 years straight under lvg and Mourinho for two years. It can't become this crap in 6 months. The midfield is the real problem issue which has been around since 2012 I would say. Even pogba is overated.

For me, we need just two things (let's leave the striker position alone for this): a solid leader at the back and a solid DM who can both shield the back line and get the ball forward quickly. Matic is past-it and far too ponderous. Herrera can do a job there but lacks consistency. Somebody like a Remi Moses would be idea but those type of players are hard to come by.

 

[AXVnee7]

Something I don't quite understand is that from Woodward's perspective, why would he not want to appoint a DOF?

He's excellent at the commercial side of the club, but it's clear he is clueless when it comes to the football side, and it's probably also clear that his first and foremost priority is to rake in the money for the Glazers. So with that in mind, would it not make sense to delegate the running of the football operations to a DOF? He has said already that the football side doesn't affect the commercial so he can relieve himself of the "burden" of our footballing endeavours and focus 100% on negotiating with sponsorships and the like. It doesn't necessarily mean he has to concede power either as he can easily retain the ability to hold the DOF to account for poor performances from the team.

There's likely something I'm missing though that flaws the argument. Perhaps I've simplified the situation too much to reflect the reality accurately.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Something I don't quite understand is that from Woodward's perspective, why would he not want to appoint a DOF?

He's excellent at the commercial side of the club, but it's clear he is clueless when it comes to the football side, and it's probably also clear that his first and foremost priority is to rake in the money for the Glazers. So with that in mind, would it not make sense to delegate the running of the football operations to a DOF? He has said already that the football side doesn't affect the commercial so he can relieve himself of the "burden" of our footballing endeavours and focus 100% on negotiating with sponsorships and the like. It doesn't necessarily mean he has to concede power either as he can easily retain the ability to hold the DOF to account for poor performances from the team.

There's likely something I'm missing though that flaws the argument. Perhaps I've simplified the situation too much to reflect the reality accurately.

There's so many pros of doing it if you ask me. Also for Woodward as he can "put the blame" on someone else. It must be because we're waiting for Mourinho to leave first.

Considering the crazy prices in the market, it only makes sense in the long term as we can't outspend City.

 

[red thru&thru]

Sack Ed. And bring in our very own legendary Ed! He’s done a great job at Ajax and exactly what needs to be done at United.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

vying for worst football operations guy we have ever had. He really wants to turn us into the drought Liverpool from the 1990s

 

[Foxbatt]

Sack Ed. And bring in our very own legendary Ed! He’s done a great job at Ajax and exactly what needs to be done at United.

The problem with that is that He is THEIR Ed more than our Ed. Plus Woodward is doing an excellent job on the financial side of things. VDS would have not have that experience of the knowledge of the commercial side like Woodward. What we need is someone under Woodward who would deal with the footballing side of things and not let the Manager get away with taking the piss as Jose is doing now.

 

[Coops73]

vying for worst football operations guy we have ever had. He really wants to turn us into the drought Liverpool from the 1990s

You’re right, that’s actually making me feel ill. I’m hating what’s going on, it’s like watching the slowest car crash in history.

 

[the chameleon]

vying for worst football operations guy we have ever had. He really wants to turn us into the drought Liverpool from the 1990s

More like the worst football operations guy in football history!

He's got to be a Liverpool fan. There's no other way.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Arsenal seems to be dealing with the life after Arsene Wenger so well whereas we are in the sixth year and we have actually regressed so much after Sir Alex.

Ed must take full responsibility and resign. This idiot spend hundreds of millions and pay ridiculous wages for players and yet we are mid table team. No body in football is as incompetence as him. This guy will go down in history as the worst ever.

 

[ravi2]

Arsenal seems to be dealing with the life after Arsene Wenger so well whereas we are in the sixth year and we have actually regressed so much after Sir Alex.

Ed must take full responsibility and resign. This idiot spend hundreds of millions and pay ridiculous wages for players and yet we are mid table team. No body in football is as incompetence as him. This guy will go down in history as the worst ever.

Look at Sarri and Chelsea, Emery and Arsenal and Klopp at Liverpool. Whats Jose's excuse in his third year here and how does Ed explain the constant failure on the pitch under his oversight?

We are the only top tier side that puts up with obvious mediocrity

 

[Class of 63]

Bollocks. He's done more harm to the club than he has helped it.

You're seriously underestimating how strong the Manchester United branding is thanks to years of winning understand Sir Alex. He's not even getting us the best deals around, he just happened to get all the deals in just right at the start of the money boom and other clubs in Europe are all getting similaf dealsthat you're praising Woodward for .

Main difference between us and other clubs is that we get way more numbers of sponsors thanks to our stature, nothing to do with Woodward.

Don't talk shite, the only harm he's ever done to Manchester United football club is by appointing Jose Mourinho as the Manager against his better judgment, and we can blame the hundreds of thousands of spolt little rich kids amongst our fan base(mostly 30 or under) who needed to be heard for that.

I'd take Ed Woodward as Chairman/CEO over David Gill, Peter Kenyon, Michael fecking Knighton and Martin Edwards everyday of the week.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Don't talk shite, the only harm he's ever done to Manchester United football club is by appointing Jose Mourinho as the Manager against his better judgment, and we can blame the hundreds of thousands of spolt little rich kids amongst our fan base(mostly 30 or under) who needed to be heard for that.

I'd take Ed Woodward as Chairman/CEO over David Gill, Peter Kenyon, Michael fecking Knighton and Martin Edwards everyday of the week.

Well I would take Peter Kenyon over Ed woodward everyday of the week and I also wanted Mourinho as a direct replacement after SAF and wasnt spoilt little rich kid under 30 at the time as im 46 now.
Mourinho and Thiago is all we needed the year Sir Alex left.
I dont want mourinho now but i dont want woodward either.

 

[Class of 63]

Well I would take Peter Kenyon over Ed woodward everyday of the week and I also wanted Mourinho as a direct replacement after SAF and wasnt spoilt little rich kid under 30 at the time as im 46 now.
Mourinho and Thiago is all we needed the year Sir Alex left.
I dont want mourinho now but i dont want woodward either.

What, you'd take chuckling Peter Kenyon, the lifelong Manchester United fan who got the job he'd always dreamed of at Old Trafford yet who couldn't get to Chelsea quick enough when they offered him a bit more money, and if that wasn't bad enough he screwed SAF and the club over by signing a list of players SAF had earmarked for United, for his new club on wages we could never match, over Ed the Invincible, rightio

 

[cheeky_backheel]

Don't talk shite, the only harm he's ever done to Manchester United football club is by appointing Jose Mourinho as the Manager against his better judgment, and we can blame the hundreds of thousands of spolt little rich kids amongst our fan base(mostly 30 or under) who needed to be heard for that.

I'd take Ed Woodward as Chairman/CEO over David Gill, Peter Kenyon, Michael fecking Knighton and Martin Edwards everyday of the week.

So he played no role in the failures of Moyes and LvG?

When it comes to football, Ed is clueless and to raise the notion of 'his better judgement' is simply hilarious.

This is the only big club where someone, as clueless about football as Ed, is making footballing decisions.

 

[Moriarty]

Well I would take Peter Kenyon over Ed woodward everyday of the week

He's even slimier than Woodward. Cut from the same cloth but Kenyon stabbed the club in the back for a handful of roubles

 

[James Peril]

Jardim confirmed for that Saudi Arabian job. That's one less manager to choose from.

Way to go Ed. And that goes for everyone with the "give the manager more time" garbage. Sick of sacking the manager when it's too late and losing potential choices for the next hire.

Are you fecking kidding me? You want the guy that got sacked from Monaco and then takes the Saudi Arabia-gig? Does that honesly sound like a Manchester United-manager to you? Jardim is crap, he’ll never be United-manager and thank god for that.

 

[Bastian]

He's even slimier than Woodward. Cut from the same cloth but Kenyon stabbed the club in the back for a handful of roubles

Yeah, he was a cnut, but Woodward orchestrated a leveraged takeover that's fecked the club. They're of the same ilk. Though Kenyon is probably less stupid.

 

[MrBest]

Do you think ed has a clue that there are 109 pages written about him in the cafe. Possibly 80% being bad news.

 

[In Rainbows]

Are you fecking kidding me? You want the guy that got sacked from Monaco and then takes the Saudi Arabia-gig? Does that honesly sound like a Manchester United-manager to you? Jardim is crap, he’ll never be United-manager and thank god for that.

Klopp was sacked before taking the Liverpool job. Jardim getting sacked was understandable as he year after year had his best players taken from him. What do you expect after a while?

 

[Foxbatt]

I think we should get Jordi Cruijff. He has been a successful DOF in Israel and he has been the success behind Macabi Haifi. He obviously knows a lot about football and have played for both Barca and of course United.
He also has the name advantage too.

 

[nazanto]

Has Edwin name been ever mentioned as a potential to be our DOF? He's a former player, got few years experienced in Ajax management. Surely if we want to hire our first DOF, we need to get someone who already familiar with United.

 

[Foxbatt]

Has Edwin name been ever mentioned as a potential to be our DOF? He's a former player, got few years experienced in Ajax management. Surely if we want to hire our first DOF, we need to get someone who already familiar with United.

He is the new CEO of Ajax. So I do not think he is going to come as a DOF.

 

[liamp]

He is the new CEO of Ajax. So I do not think he is going to come as a DOF.

He's also never been the sporting director/DoF. He was previously the marketing director at Ajax. Overmars is the DoF.

I've also read stuff from Ajax supporters on here indicating that the opinion of the job that VDS is doing there is, uh, less than favorable.

 

[Class of 63]

So he played no role in the failures of Moyes and LvG?

When it comes to football, Ed is clueless and to raise the notion of 'his better judgement' is simply hilarious.

This is the only big club where someone, as clueless about football as Ed, is making footballing decisions.

He appointed David Moyes and LvG yeah, but i'm not sure how you can blame Ed Woodward for their failures, that's surely on the Managers, and players, and the unrealistic expectation of some of our fans which doesn't help either.

You do realise that circa 99% of all Managerial appointments end in failure don't you ? So why should Ed Woodward a non football man apparently get it right first, second, third or even forth time ?

And how do you know that Ed is clueless when it comes to football, were you shooting the breeze with him and come to that conclusion, or did you just read/hear it somewhere, think it's probably true as others are saying the same and go with it(ah the old if you hear something often enough it must be true) with absolutely nothing to back it up ??

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Are you fecking kidding me? You want the guy that got sacked from Monaco and then takes the Saudi Arabia-gig? ...

Sacked shmacked Ranieri secured a hummiliatng exit from the Greece international job losing to a Malta level team and then a season later was EPL cup with leicester.....


Besides, JM was sacked from.Chelsea way out yet we hired him to 'return us to glory'....