Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

[Eckers99]

I feel you could have further highlighted our rather odd (odd here meaning "shit") transfer windows under his reign but basically, yes.

Yeah, the transfers.

Leaving the tour to sign Bale or Ronaldo, missing both and over-spending on Fellaini. Offering peanuts for Baines. Herrera's imposter lawyers. Winning the Twitter war by signing Sanchez (while city won the footballing war by a country mile).

There's no shortage of failures.

 

[Eckers99]

There won’t ever be enough pressure from the fans to force Woodward out because the cattle will always blame whichever manager happens to be sat in the dugout at the time

One post down.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Guardiola played both Silvas out of position as CMF, whilst Mourinho had Fred (Guardiola's target) on the beach so he can play Fellaini, and it was actually his choice to leave Sanchez (surprise, surprise another Guardola target) on the bench so he can play Lingard.

You're trying to make this whole situation look like Mourinho's the victim here and he's forced to play those players, whilst the reality is, playing them was his choice .

I'm really not trying to make Jose out as a victim. He has made mistakes and i don't like his man management style.

However, I believe Sanchez was carrying a knock and it does look like Fred is taking a while to make the step up to the Prem.

Looking at Guardiola he paid £60m for Mahrez (More than we paid for Sanchez) and he was poor yesterday. For most of the season this £60m player is only a squad player. They have a much stronger squad in every position. Almost 2 starting 11's.

 

[JK-27]

As pointed out in another thread, the decline of Utd has coincided with Ed Woodward joining the club and, ultimately, becoming our Executive Vice-Chairmen. He never was and isn't a football man. He's at the club purely because he helped the Glazers in their buyout.

When he first became EVC and Moyes had just taken over he failed to help secure any real transfers during that transfer window (2013) and was heavily criticised in the media for it. Since then, he's continued to behave poorly in doing good deals and seems to have felt the media attacked him in 2013 for his poor buying and lack of big name players so has focussed on trying to attract 'star' signings over and above signings the managers have really wanted (e.g., Di Maria who never wanted to come to Utd, and trying to sign Varane this summer despite the player, Madrid, and Mourinho not wanting a deal to happen. You could even say Pogba was a bad deal and overpriced, considering he's not played consistently at all since joining us). He's more concerned about who the media are saying we should buy rather than our own manager.

According to LVG Woodward bought Depay because there were rumours PSG or Liverpool were going to sign him, despite LVG saying Depay needed another year in Holland before we should buy him.

Woodward is an investment b(w)anker, nothing more, and the club is suffering as a result. According to MEN Woodward is of to NY this week to talk to investors about buying in to Utd, he's focussed more on this than the actual footballing side of the club. And we continue to struggle.

 

[Sauldogba]

The only solution to this is for the fans to protest and stop going to games, buying shirts etc. That is never going to happen. As long as the club is still making money the glazers will keep Woodward regardless of results. We're truly fecked.

Im thinking about this myself tbh. I can honestly see us becoming like arsenal or worse liverpool if we are not careful.
Sooner or later there needs to be some form of petition stating to the board that we need a director of football.

 

[Adnan]

Ed Woodward is a employee of the Glazer family. If people want to blame anyone, then blame the Glazers for a large part of our problems.

 

[Kapardin]

So who's bright idea is it to offer Young and Valencia new contracts?

 

[Isotope]

There won’t ever be enough pressure from the fans to force Woodward out because the cattle will always blame whichever manager happens to be sat in the dugout at the time

Well, the manager is kinda in charge of how the team play, not Ed.
He's actually guilty of not kick out these failed managers faster enough.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

I think that there should have been a strong plan to get a top defender at all costs, be him Godin, Alder, Bonucci, Koulibaly or Skriniar.

Definitely agree that spending 40m on Boateng would have been madness, as would have been spending 70-80m on Maguire.

That depends on what the market values are. The likes of Varane and Koulibaly are rumored to cost 100m+.
I will take a 40m Boateng and another 40m talented youngster over a 100m Koulibaly

 

[cheeky_backheel]

So who's bright idea is it to offer Young and Valencia new contracts?

It must be Mourinho, who couldnt force Ed to buy a new CB but can force him to renew these contracts

 

[Adisa]

So who's bright idea is it to offer Young and Valencia new contracts?

All the articles I've read say Mourinho is keen for them to stay.
Doesn't excuse Ed though. He should not be renewing those contracts even if a gun is put to his head. This club needs a DoF urgently.

 

[Fracture90]

I'm really not trying to make Jose out as a victim. He has made mistakes and i don't like his man management style.

However, I believe Sanchez was carrying a knock and it does look like Fred is taking a while to make the step up to the Prem.

Looking at Guardiola he paid £60m for Mahrez (More than we paid for Sanchez) and he was poor yesterday. For most of the season this £60m player is only a squad player. They have a much stronger squad in every position. Almost 2 starting 11's.

That knock theory was debunked before the game I believe.

It's like that with every Mourinho signing it seems, Fred was pretty good in some games for us that he has played this season and there was absolutely no reason not to start him yesterday when he's the closest thing, bar Pogba, we have to a MF player that can actually pass the ball to our forwards. Just look at that lad Ghendouzi from Arsenal, he's what, like 18, and he adapted rather quickly, also look at Jorginho at Chelsea.

Dude I'm not sure what are you on about here because Mahrez (albeit not so stellar yesterday) is amongst City's best players this season alongside Silva x2. He even indirectly pushed Sane out of the first team by being so good, Guardiola had to send Sterling on the LW.

We had £130 million worth of Mourinho's signings on the bench vs. City, one of which is extremely poor for a while now, the other one according to Mourinho supporters is still too green for EPL and needs to be kept in an incubator for undisclosed amount of time.

 

[AN17]

He too is culpable for the mess we are in. Why was Jose given a contract extention when he and the board had doubts about the direction Jose was taking us.Why hang on to a manager when you aren't willing to get the players he wanted?

 

[MadDogg]

1) No hiring of football director after Moyes debacle onwards.
2) Poor negotiation in the transfer market leading to inflated transfers. This is seemingly an intended effect of Woodward who takes pride in making waves in media due to expensive transfers
3) Reactionary hiring policy - Mourinho was not available until a few months before he was hired, as he had committed long term to Chelsea. This meant we had no conviction regarding who would succeed LVG.

I think that the best course of action is to hire a footballing director as soon as possible. Then get a new good manager in to work with him once the season is over. Monchi and Berta of Roma and Atletico respectively would probably relish the chance to lead the long term future of such a massive club.

1. Maybe, although it's understandable that we wanted to continue the Ferguson style of management so gave it a bit more time with managers who wanted that much control (not sure about LVG, but Mourinho definitely did). If we don't do it after Mourinho though then yes that is gross negligence.

2. Earlier on yes, but to be fair to him has that been the case the last few years? Other than perhaps Fred, which other players did we overpay for? If anything it's almost been the opposite, with the refusal to overpay for the likes of Perisic and the bunch of defenders we were linked to last window resulted in us not signing them. I suspect we would also have signed Morata if Real had been more realistic, but once they priced him close to Lukaku it made more sense to get Lukuka as more of a sure-thing. If things were going well on the field we'd probably have loved the fact that Ed had grown a backbone and refused to overpay, resulting in hopefully less clubs trying to take us for a ride in the future. Unfortunately though it hasn't been working out on the field so it both looks like he's made a mistake and hurts our bargaining position as we're going to look somewhat desperate.

I'd say wages are a bigger issue with Woody over the last few years, with quite a lot of the players on significantly higher than they really should be. This results in others wanting more as well, and also means it's hard to move on the players we would want to sell.

3. It was fairly obvious that Mourinho was going to take over for the next season, long before we even sacked LVG. Just because it wasn't officially announced until later on doesn't mean the club were uncertain who was going to be next.

I'm certainly not a fan of Woodward, but there are many things where I see two options. Most people on here only seem to talk about one - the one where he wants to control things himself. And that definitely is a possibility. But the other possibility is that he wanted the club to follow the Fergie model and so gave the following managers as much opportunity as he could, gave them the players that they wanted although increasingly doesn't want to overpay stupid amounts, and just in general does want the best for the club. Now yes, in hindsight he probably made a mistake with the last two managers (I don't blame him for Moyes), but both were understandable.

It looks likely this will be Mourinho's last season (but that Woodward will give him until the end of the season unless things completely fall apart), so what happens next will strongly indicate which of the two possibilities are the case. Does he bring in somebody to be the DoF or similar role, or does he continue doing that role himself? If the latter then yes, he's either power-hungry or simply doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[Lentwood]

Well, the manager is kinda in charge of how the team play, not Ed.
He's actually guilty of not kick out these failed managers faster enough.

So how many more multiple CL & domestic title-winning managers do we burn through before we start acknowledging that the problems at the club are structural and not attributed to one single individual?

Pep has succeeded at City because the structure is in-place to support his method. Don't forget, even after years of prep. for his arrival, City finished 4th in Pep's first season

 

[roonster09]

So how many more multiple CL & domestic title-winning managers do we burn through before we start acknowledging that the problems at the club are structural and not attributed to one single individual?

Pep has succeeded at City because the structure is in-place to support his method. Don't forget, even after years of prep. for his arrival, City finished 4th in Pep's first season

Our players can't build up play and String 3-4 passes together is because of structural issues? Didn't know Woodward was in charge of first team training.

 

[Isotope]

So how many more multiple CL & domestic title-winning managers do we burn through before we start acknowledging that the problems at the club are structural and not attributed to one single individual?

Pep has succeeded at City because the structure is in-place to support his method. Don't forget, even after years of prep. for his arrival, City finished 4th in Pep's first season

What preparation City did? They just hired and fired useless managers. Then threw more money once they bought Pep's idea and knew what Pep could do. If Pep was as useless as the previous managers, do you think they would give him another 4 years contract?

 

[DanClancy]

So how many more multiple CL & domestic title-winning managers do we burn through before we start acknowledging that the problems at the club are structural and not attributed to one single individual?

Pep has succeeded at City because the structure is in-place to support his method. Don't forget, even after years of prep. for his arrival, City finished 4th in Pep's first season

What.... the greatest manager of all time actually finished 4th.

Correct, just imagine if twitter and the internet had been around in Jan 1990. Fergie would have been slaughtered as United languished near the bottom of the league after been in the job for over 3 years.

 

[roonster09]

What preparation City did? They just hired and fired useless managers. Then threw more money once they bought Pep's idea and knew what Pep could do. If Pep was as useless as the previous managers, do you think they would give him another 4 years contract?

Exactly. It's just one more baseless assumption. If city prepared for Pep, they wouldn't have had shit full backs when he signed and left with ageing squad, arguably oldest team in the league going by average age.

 

[CA1]

He's an absolute cnut who is helping drive this institution into the ground that past generations helped build.

And then you come on a United forum and you get people defending him.

I don't know anybody who defends him, only people on here.

 

[Lentwood]

Our players can't build up play and pass more than 3-4 times is because of structural issues? Didn't know Woodward was in charge of first team training.

I don't even know where to start with this it's such a blinkered, short-term view of what makes a football team a team. The reason we 'can't build up play and pass more than 3-4 times' is precisely because of what I refer to as 'structural issues'. It's the result of a scatter-gun transfer policy that sees players with totally incompatible styles forced into unnatural positions/roles. Compare that to City where all of the players where bought with a style of football in mind, or even Liverpool, and you begin to understand why we have issues. It's exactly the same reason why Lukaku and Pogba look like monsters for Belgium and France but struggle for Utd.

What preparation City did? They just hired and fired useless managers. Then threw more money once they bought Pep's idea and knew what Pep could do. If Pep was as useless as the previous managers, do you think they would give him another 4 years contract?

What preparation did City do? How about;

- Hire Barcelona's former DoF to begin implementing the structure Pep would require
- Set-up an Academy which is the envy of football clubs worldwide
- Begin to sign 'Pep'-style players two-years before he ever set foot in the place in preparation for his arrival

It was the worst kept secret in football that Pep had been lined up for the City job years before he took it. How can you come on to a football forum and say something like 'what preparation did City do' and expect anyone to give any of your opinions any credibility?

 

[roonster09]

Wow,

 

[Isotope]

I don't even know where to start with this it's such a blinkered, short-term view of what makes a football team a team. The reason we 'can't build up play and pass more than 3-4 times' is precisely because of what I refer to as 'structural issues'. It's the result of a scatter-gun transfer policy that sees players with totally incompatible styles forced into unnatural positions/roles. Compare that to City where all of the players where bought with a style of football in mind, or even Liverpool, and you begin to understand why we have issues. It's exactly the same reason why Lukaku and Pogba look like monsters for Belgium and France but struggle for Utd.



What preparation did City do? How about;

- Hire Barcelona's former DoF to begin implementing the structure Pep would require
- Set-up an Academy which is the envy of football clubs worldwide
- Begin to sign 'Pep'-style players two-years before he ever set foot in the place in preparation for his arrival

It was the worst kept secret in football that Pep had been lined up for the City job years before he took it. How can you come on to a football forum and say something like 'what preparation did City do' and expect anyone to give any of your opinions any credibility?

All the City want to be Barca mark II. Pep or no Pep. They didn't care if it's by hiring Pep or anyone else. That "preparation" would come to naught if Pep then made the team play like Mou's; or the team fail to win anything worthy.

Although admittedly you're right that the City do make a good move with DoF, the structure, being decisive in firing underperformed managers. They've been act like a big club for a while, compared to us. I'm not saying that Ed is not totally at fault here.

 

[Lentwood]

He's an absolute cnut who is helping drive this institution into the ground that past generations helped build.

And then you come on a United forum and you get people defending him.

I don't know anybody who defends him, only people on here.

It's mind-boggling isn't it. It's like Stockholm syndrome or something similar!

According to at least 50% of the forum, the only person who needs to shoulder any blame for our decline over a period of 10yrs+ is the current bloke sat in the dugout whoever that might be or may have been over the last few seasons.

The minute we appoint Zidane in May I am going to start a thread entitled 'Speak now or keep shut!' where I offer all these numpties the chance to raise any concerns they have about Zidane's credentials or 'coaching-style' in advance. If they don't raise any at that point, then I expect them to support him when we are in a top 4 fight come December 2019 and begin to realise the problems are elsewhere

 

[Lentwood]

All the City want to be Barca mark II. Pep or no Pep. They didn't care if it's by hiring Pep or anyone else. That "preparation" would come to naught if Pep then made the team play like Mou's; or the team fail to win anything worthy.

So then you are now supporting my argument by saying that City set out to be Barcelona Mark II, hired their DoF, hired their former manager, replicated their Academy, replicated their style of play, invested in players to suit that style and are now reaping the rewards?

Or was all of that just a happy coincidence?

 

[Isotope]

So then you are now supporting my argument by saying that City set out to be Barcelona Mark II, hired their DoF, hired their former manager, replicated their Academy, replicated their style of play, invested in players to suit that style and are now reaping the rewards?

Or was all of that just a happy coincidence?

Yes, I agreed about they have better plan. I edited my original post. But I don't agree that it's all for Pep. They'd fire Pep if he doesn't perform as they want.

 

[jontheblue]

Yes, I agreed about they have better plan. I edited my original post. But I don't agree that it's all for Pep. They'd fire Pep if he doesn't perform as they want.

Well obviously they would fire him if he doesn't perform. But the point is, they would then hire a similar style of manager who favours a similar styles of player - they are trying to build an identity and structure. They have the youth teams playing the same way, they recruit kids who will fit in to that style, etc

If one can put to one side the thoughts about FFP/sugar dadddy/etc, the fact remains after some early clangers, the current owners are running the club with football success at the core of everything they do, in a clearly structured plan.

At united, do the youth team play in a similar way to the first team to make progression easier ? Is there any similarity in style between Moyes, Van Gaal & Mourihno ? Gone are the days for any big club to have a manager who essentially runs everything the way SAF did. Managers (or coaches as they effectively are now) in europe are used to going in to a big club on a 2-3 yr contract, having influence over a handful of signings and concentrating primarily on coaching the first team. The structure behind all that has to be in place for it to work. Biggest mistake IMO that united made was in assuming moyes could be SAF mark 2

 

[CA1]

Well obviously they would fire him if he doesn't perform. But the point is, they would then hire a similar style of manager who favours a similar styles of player - they are trying to build an identity and structure. They have the youth teams playing the same way, they recruit kids who will fit in to that style, etc

If one can put to one side the thoughts about FFP/sugar dadddy/etc, the fact remains after some early clangers, the current owners are running the club with football success at the core of everything they do, in a clearly structured plan.

At united, do the youth team play in a similar way to the first team to make progression easier ? Is there any similarity in style between Moyes, Van Gaal & Mourihno ? Gone are the days for any big club to have a manager who essentially runs everything the way SAF did. Managers (or coaches as they effectively are now) in europe are used to going in to a big club on a 2-3 yr contract, having influence over a handful of signings and concentrating primarily on coaching the first team. The structure behind all that has to be in place for it to work. Biggest mistake IMO that united made was in assuming Moyes could be SAF mark 2

The youth team players at United are brought up a consistent way.

I think United have a much better track record at bringing through young players than City. United focus on the individual skill as opposed to a collective formation at youth level. They're purposfully put in different formation and positions to evolve them. City see success at youth level as winning, United have always seen it as producing well roudned footballers and human beings. That shouldn't change.

Getting 1 player in the first team is better for the youth team than winning Youth cups etc.

 

[Shark]

It's mind-boggling isn't it. It's like Stockholm syndrome or something similar!

According to at least 50% of the forum, the only person who needs to shoulder any blame for our decline over a period of 10yrs+ is the current bloke sat in the dugout whoever that might be or may have been over the last few seasons.

The minute we appoint Zidane in May I am going to start a thread entitled 'Speak now or keep shut!' where I offer all these numpties the chance to raise any concerns they have about Zidane's credentials or 'coaching-style' in advance. If they don't raise any at that point, then I expect them to support him when we are in a top 4 fight come December 2019 and begin to realise the problems are elsewhere

Zidane for me is the most laughable candidate of all. He’ll do absolutely feck all in the current conditions of this club.

 

[Kapardin]

Zidane for me is the most laughable candidate of all. He’ll do absolutely feck all in the current conditions of this club.

And he's not even renowned for brilliant attacking football. Real played a lot of boring matches in his third season when they ground out wins.

 

[Siddharth]

He too is culpable for the mess we are in. Why was Jose given a contract extention when he and the board had doubts about the direction Jose was taking us.Why hang on to a manager when you aren't willing to get the players he wanted?

Because at that point of time, Mourinho was fluttering his eyelashes at PSG and I think (just my guess) Woodward panicked. And, at that point in time, I felt and many others too that we had made progress and Mourinho had steadied the boat, and sustained period of stability will only be good for the club. Looking back, I guess, Mourinho and his freaking agent played a blinder.

 

[clarkydaz]

Because at that point of time, Mourinho was fluttering his eyelashes at PSG and I think (just my guess) Woodward panicked. And, at that point in time, I felt and many others too that we had made progress and Mourinho had steadied the boat, and sustained period of stability will only be good for the club. Looking back, I guess, Mourinho and his freaking agent played a blinder.

Doesn't seem to be hard with this guy does it? Starting from that infamous Rooney contract, right up to now with Sanchez, they all take Woodward to the cleaners. Even Fellaini managed to strongarm an extra season out of him for his renewal

 

[Isotope]

Well obviously they would fire him if he doesn't perform. But the point is, they would then hire a similar style of manager who favours a similar styles of player - they are trying to build an identity and structure. They have the youth teams playing the same way, they recruit kids who will fit in to that style, etc

If one can put to one side the thoughts about FFP/sugar dadddy/etc, the fact remains after some early clangers, the current owners are running the club with football success at the core of everything they do, in a clearly structured plan.

At united, do the youth team play in a similar way to the first team to make progression easier ? Is there any similarity in style between Moyes, Van Gaal & Mourihno ? Gone are the days for any big club to have a manager who essentially runs everything the way SAF did. Managers (or coaches as they effectively are now) in europe are used to going in to a big club on a 2-3 yr contract, having influence over a handful of signings and concentrating primarily on coaching the first team. The structure behind all that has to be in place for it to work. Biggest mistake IMO that united made was in assuming Moyes could be SAF mark 2

Man City managers since the 2008 Abu Dhabi take over:
Mark Hughes, Mancini, Pellegrini, Guardiola.

I can only see the similarity of Pellegrini and Guardiola.

 

[Roboc7]

It's mind-boggling isn't it. It's like Stockholm syndrome or something similar!

According to at least 50% of the forum, the only person who needs to shoulder any blame for our decline over a period of 10yrs+ is the current bloke sat in the dugout whoever that might be or may have been over the last few seasons.

The minute we appoint Zidane in May I am going to start a thread entitled 'Speak now or keep shut!' where I offer all these numpties the chance to raise any concerns they have about Zidane's credentials or 'coaching-style' in advance. If they don't raise any at that point, then I expect them to support him when we are in a top 4 fight come December 2019 and begin to realise the problems are elsewhere

I think most people can see the problems are a combination of both Woodward and the managers. Woodward and all three managers have/are paid huge salaries and none of them have justified it.

Woodward seems to get blamed for spending too much one minute and then failing to back the manager the next minute. The truth is he isn’t working to any kind of structured plan and isn’t competent enough to be so hands on.

All three managers we appointed are past their peak and are to varying extent out of touch with how football has and continues to evolve. Better coaching, better signings and tactics could see improvements made quickly, alternatively we could spend hundreds of millions and get nowhere if we continue with the same process.

It’s not a quick fix and will need improvements on and off the pitch, admitting we are rubbish and need to reform rather than expecting to get straight back to the top needs to happen sooner rather than later.

 

[JPRouve]

People have wondered why Maguire was allegedly ruled out by Woodward and I just remembered something. Anyone else remember that United scouts were against Isco's signing because his head was too big?

 

[CA1]

People have wondered why Maguire was allegedly ruled out by Woodward and I just remembered something. Anyone else remember that United scouts were against Isco's signing because his head was too big?

You still defending Woodward are you?

Silly boy.

 

[JPRouve]

You still defending Woodward are you?

Silly boy.

Where do you see a defense?

 

[Foxbatt]

The scouts report to The Manager at United. We do not have a DOF. All the coaches are hired by The manager. That is why Jose has to be responsible for the disaster. Just like previous Managers. He is the one who trains and coaches and do the tactics. Not Woodward. We have bought 8 players in the two years since Jose arrived. That is a lot. Not one of them have succeeded so far bar Zlatan who lasted just one season.

 

[Christie]

I think most people can see the problems are a combination of both Woodward and the managers. Woodward and all three managers have/are paid huge salaries and none of them have justified it.

Woodward seems to get blamed for spending too much one minute and then failing to back the manager the next minute. The truth is he isn’t working to any kind of structured plan and isn’t competent enough to be so hands on.

All three managers we appointed are past their peak and are to varying extent out of touch with how football has and continues to evolve. Better coaching, better signings and tactics could see improvements made quickly, alternatively we could spend hundreds of millions and get nowhere if we continue with the same process.

It’s not a quick fix and will need improvements on and off the pitch, admitting we are rubbish and need to reform rather than expecting to get straight back to the top needs to happen sooner rather than later.

The problem is that the fans keep demanding that the managers be replaced as if that will stem the bleed, but Woodward is never replaced. After 3 managers, I think it's time we tried to replace something else instead.

The scouts report to The Manager at United. We do not have a DOF. All the coaches are hired by The manager. That is why Jose has to be responsible for the disaster. Just like previous Managers. He is the one who trains and coaches and do the tactics. Not Woodward. We have bought 8 players in the two years since Jose arrived. That is a lot. Not one of them have succeeded so far bar Zlatan who lasted just one season.

You mean the General Manager that is Ed Woodward? Because we do not have a Football manager, only a Head Coach.

The failures of the signing can be attributed to the guy wanting to sign big names only or skimp out on bargain players hoping to unearth a gem. The Zidane Y Pavons approach which has been an utter failure.

 

[DanClancy]

Another issue I'd have with him is signing a 10 year deal with Adidas, the deal doesn't end until the 2024-25 seasons. I think already £70m a years looks like a good deal for Adidas, give it another 6 years and they'll be getting a huge bargain. United are way out in front of Barca & Real in terms of kit sales.