It is. When you think i'm trying to make a point out of nothing. I was just answering someone who mentioned Blind.
Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)
- Thread starter RedMachine03
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It is. When you think i'm trying to make a point out of nothing. I was just answering someone who mentioned Blind.
Fair enough!
Indeed. A lot of people on this forum seem to be worried about our finances and care less about the on-pitch performance.
I couldn't care less if we spent £500M on a player. As long as he improves the team, I'm happy.
I support the football team, but don't particularly care too much about us as a business entity.
It is bizarre that some fans want us to save money (so that The Glazers can pocket it), rather than spend it on better players.
If I wanted to support a business (ie. who can get the highest profits/revenues), then I'd probably support Tesco or Apple.
City were playing even better football than us and essentially champions elect. Guardiola still waited until the summer to get his contract extension. Same with Klopp.
Mourinho moaned and cried his way to a new contract 6 months before either of them. Tells you everything you need to know about our manager.
Just another person stealing a living off this club. We are a fecking disgrace from the top to the bottom. I do believe that football is cyclical so hopefully the money and profile generated by this club we will see ourselves through it. The only one's that deserve to be still here at the end of this travesty is the fans and De Gea.
CIES football observatory presented their uppdated transfer values today. Lukaku is estimated to be worth 164m EURO. For example. Anyone going to give Ed cred for this?
Naw, that was tongue in cheek, but it reflects on why there has never been a lack of support for the manager when it comes to transfers and when the target is a young promising player.
Naw, that was tongue in cheek, but it reflects on why there has never been a lack of support for the manager when it comes to transfers and when the target is a young promising player.
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People care about our financial side as means to an end, which is our performances. If we go and spend unwisely, like paying tons of money for older/mediocre players, it may improve us short term, but won't be sustainable and would decrease our chances for long term success.
But those same people complain endlessly that we're not performing in the short term. I've yet to see someone post "I'm glad we didn't buy the good, experienced 29 yo defender, and I'm happy to give up on winning anything this season."
Unfortunately, this also says to our players that we're not interested in winning anything this year.
In general. This has been are policy for over 25 plus years. I think it’s a little more than there asset value is likely to rise. If they are a failure there value still goes down. For instance no one is paying €164m for Lukaku if we wanted to sell him right now.
Being spiteful towards Mourinho is more important than the clubs future to many on here.
Its nonsense that Woodward is praised for vetoing transfers when it's obvious that the team needs improving. A competent person would have scouted alternatives to Mourinho's targets. Some are so idiotic to think Mourinho would not welcome new players that have some quality about them.
Marco Branca at Inter Milan got him Sniejder and Milito when he wanted Lampard and Drogba. These weren't his ideal targets but they were good players and the rest is history.
Pretty much says it all about him doesn’t it. He was never going to get Lampard and Drogba plus when have Inter Milan ever cared what the manager wants. They have been the Italian Galacticos for years. I’m sure Sneijder was also a better option than Lampard to them.
The whole point some targets were not given was based on it not being the best interest for the club. So I’m not sure what you mean there? Us fans are certified transfer muppets the fact that most of us agreed with Ed says it all.
Absolutely right. It's unbelievable how he conned the club with supposed interest from PSG. As if they'd even touch him with a barge pole.
Imo, he was best defender in club. Not saying thwt he is some top class but is bettwr than these 5 who we have now
Seriously? You expect Woodward to be the one scouting targets? I'm sorry but that's absolutely ridiculous.
It's up to Mourinho to work with the scouts to actually decide on who to target. Woodward's job is then to say how much the club is willing to pay for the targets. We don't have limitless funds so there does have to be a line. Whether we should have crossed that line for one or more of those players is another question, but I struggle to think of any of those players we were being linked with who went on to prove we should have.
Arguably Woodward should be looking to bring in somebody to fill a sporting director or DoF role who would then handle the transfer side of things (such as Marco Branca who you mentioned at Inter), but it's very likely Mourinho doesn't want that. He's fallen out with a number of people who bought players he didn't want at previous clubs. But if Mourinho does end up leaving it's quite likely we'll bring in somebody for that role, and then Woodward should only be telling that person how much we have to spend each year and they can then spend as they see fit.
No i expected Woodward to hire a director of football ages ago, the thing that he has been briefing the press about for years. Instead he has turned himself into a director of football telling the manager what players he can't sell or buy. This situation could have been avoided several years ago, almost every other club knows that you get a football person to plan the long term future of the club that works with the coach (not manager, top clubs don't have that anymore).
Its completely irrelevant whether Mourinho wants that or not. It's what's good for the club. If Mourinho throws a strop that we got another CB instead of Alderweireld then he'll get sacked plain and simple. That is ofcourse a clear distortion of what would actually happen, since he would get on with his job if he got good players.
The sporting directors he apparently 'fell out with' were clueless, they weren't good at their job. On the other hand Marco Branca was basically a part of the coaching staff and surprise surprise he was good at his job.
Part of the reason Mourinho always wanted us, and part of the reason we (both many fans and the club) probably wanted him, is because we had a preference to allowing the manager to be the main guy. We wanted another Ferguson style of manager. And Mourinho wanted to be that style.
It didn't work with Moyes. It didn't work with LVG. I said when we signed Mourinho, and I still expect it, that Mourinho was probably our last throw of the dice for that old-school style. If it ultimately didn't work, as unfortunately appears the case, we would then move on to the more continental style of having a DoF or similar position. But until then, it's up to Mourinho to pick the targets and Woodward to decide how much money we're willing to spend. Nothing I've seen makes me believe he is straight up vetoing Mourinho's transfer plans (except maybe refusing to sell Martial); he's just going up to the limit that he set and refused to go over it.
I think people would have had no issues with making one big older signing if it really was a case of the final piece of the puzzle that would make the difference and bring us success. It isn't, partly because we're not getting enough out of the players we already have.
Is it? Because he’d be hanging upside down from Old Trafford by the balls had he authorised the sale of Martial to Chelsea or Spurs, to then watch him have a cracking season.
If we’re going to criticise Woodward (which happens incessantly) then it’s only right we acknowledge the sense in ensuring that Martial, Shaw and Pogba are long term figures at the club.
It’s incredibly likely (more of a certainty) that the heads of scouting and those around Mourinho discussed a range of possible transfer targets. It’s disingenuous to pedal the theory that the board said no to Boateng and Mina and instead sat on their arse.
Herrera, Mata, Jones & Smalling are all out of contract at the end of the season, what is Woodward playing at? I doubt all 4 will stay and I'd be delighted if the two centre half's both left but either way United shouldn't be in a position like this with so many players.
I actually wrote a long post about why this is done.
In a nutshell - to save money. The closer to expiring that the player renews his contract, the more money we save.
When you unsure of why Woodie is doing what he is doing, just think about money. He wants to decrease spending and increase income. And if we do spend big on a player, it will be because Woodie believes it will enable us to get even more income (than our outgoings for that player), during the course of that player's contract.
I am sorry, but this is not factually correct. There exists several reports that its the other way around: Woodward has distanced himself from the actual handling of transfer matters the last couple of years and now has little if anything to do with transfer negotiations. Any suggestion that Woodward sits at home looking at FM-stats and vetoing this and that player is bordering to stupid tbh.
There was a very good article in (I think) the Independent a while ago that outlined how we work when it comes to transfers. Google did not help me to find it today though. Woodward has almost zero to do with this nowadays.
What Woodward does do is that he oversees and is responsible for the financial side of the club which will include the wage budget above anything else. I do not believe that there is an actual or at least fixed transfer budget in place. To buy a player is an investment and there is a lot of proof that the club is ready to invest almost any amount if its a player that the manager wants as long as it doesnt feck up the wage budget.
And when considering the wage budget taking in to account the depreciation of value of older players. That is actually also a cost fpr the club, as are the wages themselves. We already have the largest wage budget in the PL, depending on what source you rely on. Which is why acquisitions of expensive older players (in transfer fees) obviously and correctly is frowned on by the club or "Woodward".
I do not believe for one second that Woodward thinks himself competent to weigh in on if this or that player is better for the squad. Most evidence actually suggests that he has distanced himself from even practical involvement in the negotiations. I am pretty sure that Mourinho can do wtf he wants with the squad as long as it does not jeopardize the clubs finance long-term. Which means to stay within one of the five largest wage budgets in football today.
IMO he should do better. Mourinho that is.
EDIT
When I am using the term "wage budget" above its not just wages I am talking about. Cost budget would be a better term maybe. Rest assured, that all big (and even smaller) clubs use advanced algorithms to assess how much a current player costs, how much the cost is for acquiring a new player. Including age, term of contract, and wages of course. Its stupid to say that Alexis wages now influences the rest of the players demands. It does not work like that today except maybe on the Caf. Most agents will be aware of the fact that Alexis almost came on a free and considering his age will have little/no resale value.
One cannot compare his wages to a new 23 year old signing.
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Thats one angle of looking at it but there's a good chance 2 of those players will leave, can't see all 4 renewing. I forgot to mention Darmian too and there's no chance he'll sign another contract. I'd say Herrera is the only one due a decent payrise but Mata is already on 150k a week so won't be offered much more than that whilst Smalling & Jones are both on over 100k a week. They'll do well to get much of increase from United, just can't see that happening.
Why? Apart from Smalling, and let's be honest he's only in the team because he's the only centre-half we've got that can stay fit, they are all just squad players and the club are probably hoping they are transfer targets for other clubs in the January window which would be less likely if they'd just signed new contracts.
Ed should try to get the Borussia Dortmund's coach. He is tactical astute, plays entertaining modern attacking football and very good with young players.
Also, get Borussia Dortmund's technical director and their scouting team
. They're working miracles there to allow Dortmund compete in Bundesliga and Europe year in year out with very limited budget in today's market.
Sir Alex used to be doing all these for us alone himself. But it's impossible to get someone like him now so we need to set up a structure with capable team in it to run the club efficiently.
Sir Alex is really a one off, he would have won much more ( even with limited budget) if he didn't have to face crazy oil money from Russia & Abu Dhabi and also
the best team of all time Barcelona in two CL finals in his time here.
Also, get Borussia Dortmund's technical director and their scouting team
. They're working miracles there to allow Dortmund compete in Bundesliga and Europe year in year out with very limited budget in today's market. Sir Alex used to be doing all these for us alone himself. But it's impossible to get someone like him now so we need to set up a structure with capable team in it to run the club efficiently.
Sir Alex is really a one off, he would have won much more ( even with limited budget) if he didn't have to face crazy oil money from Russia & Abu Dhabi and also
the best team of all time Barcelona in two CL finals in his time here.
Ed should try to get the Borussia Dortmund's coach. He is tactical astute, plays entertaining modern attacking football and very good with young players.
Also, get Borussia Dortmund's technical director and their scouting team
Sir Alex used to be doing all these for us alone himself. But it's impossible to get someone like him now so we need to set up a structure with capable team in it to run the club efficiently.
Sir Alex is really a one off, he would have won much more ( even with limited budget) if he didn't have to face crazy oil money from Russia & Abu Dhabi and also
the best team of all time Barcelona in two CL finals in his time here.
Our last two transfers from BVB worked out so well...
Thankfully we have people who have to ensure the business is well run. Spending silly money on ageing players who don't perform have landed us with players like Sanchez who are a huge financial and footballing burden at the moment. I understand the desire for better players of course but there's not guarantees either way. For example I can't see the point innspending big on McGuire. He's nothing special really.
1. Either Ed was wrong or you are wrong - you cant on one hand say that it was clear Mourinho is not the man for the job and then claim that Ed didnt make a mistake extending his contract.
2. Ed did not indulge Mourinho with Matic cos Mourinho preferred choice was Eric Dier but we balked at the price. Matic just happened to be the next name on the list. If you want to indulge a manager, you grant him his first choice target.
3. Mourinho has identified what he feels the squad needs to challenge (and these needs are pretty obvios to almost everyone) and provided names of players he felt can fill the need. Mourinho is a manager, not a scout, and can only recommend players he is aware of or that have been brought to his attention. The club balked at the prices of his recommendations and yet failed sign an alternative. That is not on the manager.
4. No manager is going to be winning titles with our current squad against the current City. Yes you might get a manager to play a more open game, but he will not be winning anything cos the squad lacks the quality to do so. managers cant make bricks without straws otherwise Guardiola wouldnt have spent as much as he has. We have had 3 managers and each has performed below their own standards. At some point we have to accept that may be the bigger problem is not with the managers but with Ed and those above.
Well, if we had a structure and system in place we would have minimised or avoided the current situation where many of our players can't fit into the manager's "philosophy".
Our current situation is because we try to follow that structure and system we so used to in saf.
First of all, February being clar that mourinho is not the man was my own opinion of Mourinho, not what I think Ed thought.
Second, Mourinho himself has said, the wheels for Matic started moving long before the summer, Dier being preferred is just speculation. This is what Mourinho said.
https://www.google.com.ng/url?sa=t&...BRAB&usg=AOvVaw2PMFDNNznpZ2SUaDD0cMTB&cf=1
I made it clear in my post that my observation on Ed Woodward was regarding the summer and contract extension not anything before.
You can't blame Ed for not paying €50/60m for Alderweireld or Boateng. Also you cannot blame Ed for Inter saying Skriniar was non transferable, same with McGuire. What other options were available, no one knows and no one knows why we failed with them. I have trouble believing we were after Mina.
I have also not said there haven't been any mistakes, Ive said many times that I believe the mistakes were made long before this summer but I can't knock Ed for what happened this summer.
Mourinho should have known the club wouldn't move for signings like Boateng and Alderweireld. This where mistakes were made. Both parties should have been on the same page with Tra sees long before the summer.
It's also possible to the think Ed is doing things wrong and still think the managers aren't right for the club. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Jose (if he stays for another season) and the club (Ed and co) ahve tow ork hand in hand in transfers. If it was for Jose Martial would have been gone, what about that? Thank God the club said NO. Also, the rumoured CBs were all 29+ (apart form Maguire) and woudl have costed 80m+ then they will have to be replaced in 3/4 years time, again I am with the Club to say no to Jose. We are not backed by a state with unlimited funds, if we are going to spend 80m on a player he has to have at least 7 good years in him no 3/4 (whilst also declining in those years). I think, finally Jose has accepted that, hence why the relationship SEEMS to be improved. Now lets wait and see what will happen in January!
It is either Ed agrees with your opinion of Mourinho, in which it was a mistake to extend the contract of Mourinho, or he disagrees with you, in which case his judgement of Mourinho is a misatke or you are wrong about Mourinho.
That does not prove that Matic was preferred (only that he was available before the summer) cos we were pursuing Dier and was even accused of tapping him up. All reporting points to Matic being signed after we gave up on Dier.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...er-denies-compromising-position-a8024001.html
If Ed did not want to buy Toby/Boateng/McGuire for the asking price, his position can only be valid he he could show there was better value to be had elsewhere i.e. buy a similar quality player at a lower price or better player at same price. If you are not willing to pay what the market demands for players of a particular quality, then you basically consign your team to perform at a lower level.
For two summers, we failed to bring in a RW despite the manager's request for one. Ed has the final say on transfers and thus he is primarily responsible for our bad transfer dealings.
I find it amusing when some say Mourinho has spent 400m, when in truth it is Ed that has spent 400m cos Mourinho only gave him a list of targets and it is ed that had the final say on which of those targets we sign and how much we pay for them. You cannot credit Ed for not signing Boateng or Toby but hang Matic and Sanchez on Mourinho's neck. In both cases, the final decision was made by Ed and thus he is responsible for the outcome.
If Ed had the skills of a football director, we would likely have been doing much better in the transfer market. We get asked 90m for Morata, agree to pay 75-90m for Lukaku and Chelsea get to buy Morata for 65m - wtf!
For me, leave the manager alone, instead get someone who knows more about the game and has a better network/negotiating skills to handle transfers, and then we can truly evaluate the manager. To change the manager now, colors the judgment of any new manager as we dont know if the old manager would have performed better with the new DOF.
Ed should try to get the Borussia Dortmund's coach. He is tactical astute, plays entertaining modern attacking football and very good with young players.
Also, get Borussia Dortmund's technical director and their scouting team
Sir Alex used to be doing all these for us alone himself. But it's impossible to get someone like him now so we need to set up a structure with capable team in it to run the club efficiently.
Sir Alex is really a one off, he would have won much more ( even with limited budget) if he didn't have to face crazy oil money from Russia & Abu Dhabi and also
the best team of all time Barcelona in two CL finals in his time here.
Which team do you support? Dortmund?
Out of interest, which Dortmund transfer (out) have worked well?
Our own transfers have failed (Miki, Kagawa).
I also notice that Dembele (one of the most expensive players in history) isn't doing too great at Barca.
What about Matts Hummels?
Auba is doing okay at Arsenal.
It would be interesting to run a comparison of the transfer failures vs successes, from Dortmund.
The main point I was trying to make was that BVB have a very efficient structure and system that no matter which manager/player leave the club they can always rebuild and challenge again. All these with limited budget and playing entertaining attacking football in Europe.
Many top clubs in Europe also have very good structure and system (albeit with much bigger budgets than BVB) which don't depend on individual manager or player for the club success e.g. RM, Barcelona, BM, Juventus.
We used to have one of the most effective structure and system in world football where we built many world class teams in the last 25-30 years. Unfortunately, that structure and system was SAF. Once he stepped down we are in a big mess and Ed should really identify the root causes and rebuild/restructure from there with right knowledgeable people in football.
BTW, Lewandowski and Hummel are doing well in BM. Dembele is young and still a great talent. Unfortunately, he suffered serious injury last season which may affects his current form. Kagawa, Mkhi and Auba are still playing for Europe top clubs and doing ok (BVB got them with minimal fees or free).
The devils
I have very high respect for BVB. They can challenge and play good football in today's crazy market on small budgets. They have to sell their best players and have their managers poached by other clubs year in year out and yet they seems to be able to handle the transition very well.
Just imaging Liverpool without Kloop or Spurs without Poch they will not be doing so well. ( I know they won nothing compared to BVB
but both clubs are punching above their weights now )His decision to block the transfers of Martial, Shaw and Pogba at all costs seems a very goo decision, as was the decision to not spend a fortune in Willian.
He should have made money available for a CB though, no doubt there.
He should have made money available for a CB though, no doubt there.
It’s fair to say that money is available for a centre half. Just not for Jerome Boateng at £40 million.
Agree on your first point.
I think we should've got a RW and CB. If Woodard did not approve of Willian, he should've asked Jose for alternatives. Instead, he put his head in the sand, waiting for the transfer window to shut.
In the end we hung onto the deadwood and didn't buy any new starters. Fred is a squad player and Dalot is youngster who is unlikely to get much game time. We need a couple of starters.
How do you know that?
And hang on - we spent £52 million on Fred so he can come off the bench?
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