Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

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Sb_16 said:
If Jose and Ed both were replaced at the same time wouldn't it be similar to Sir Alex and Gill stepping down together? I mean our club structure may not have changed much. Replacing two top powerful positions may again prove to be too much of a disruption as it proved during the Moyes tenure.

I think we need to first reduce the role of manager to a coaching one and separate the footballing matters from the overall CEO role before we even think about replacing the authority that Ed holds as of now.
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Both aren't similar though, due to the duration of which SAF and Gill spent at the club compared to Ed and Mourinho.
 
Does anyone else believe that during bad spells like now, sales from the megastore and online decline?

I have no statistics on this, but speaking for myself, I'm much more likely to buy a shirt from the store when we're doing well, or better than now at least. This situation just puts me in a bad mood.

What I'm asking is do you think Woodward and the board can see the revenues going down when we're as crap as now? And if so, are they likely to act on this, i.e. fireing the manager eventually?
 
I genuinely believe that Woodward, and in fairness, the board who are letting him stay at the helm, believe we are too big to fail. And because of this, they are pissing away our competitive advantage (ie financial muscle) at every single turn, and it will soon be completely eroded compared to our rivals.
 
Jed I. Knight said:
I genuinely believe that Woodward, and in fairness, the board who are letting him stay at the helm, believe we are too big to fail. And because of this, they are pissing away our competitive advantage (ie financial muscle) at every single turn, and it will soon be completely eroded compared to our rivals.
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Arrogance. I have the same gut feeling, that's why I kind of understand the poster who said that too much money was an issue for us. They somehow convinced themselves that money was a substitute to competency.
 
Jed I. Knight said:
I genuinely believe that Woodward, and in fairness, the board who are letting him stay at the helm, believe we are too big to fail. And because of this, they are pissing away our competitive advantage (ie financial muscle) at every single turn, and it will soon be completely eroded compared to our rivals.
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Agree, but I think it's gonna take a while for us to lose our financial edge.
 
Stacks said:
Woodward has signed off on 400+ million of transfers. Most likely Woodward wants value for the money (which isn't Jose's cash) and not be spending 60 mill on 30 year olds that would need another 80m to replace in 2 years. I assume Ed wants Jose to spend big on young players as they are long term investments and deliver far more value. Who gives you more value Sane or Willian? In many ways Ed should of known this about Jose that he loves 29 year olds and cannot develop younger players. I imagine Ed looks at Lindelof and Bailly and thinks "no thanks, I am supposed to buy another CB after your past judgements".
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Woodward wants shiny and flashy. Defenders are boring. Established veteran players are boring. Backup players? Boring.
That's fairly well established. If only Woodward either knew how to build a football team, or knew he didn't have a clue how to build a football team.
 
Woodward gets a lot of credit for his work on the financial side of things, and perhaps justifiably so, but I think he’s missing the big picture here. He didn’t build the foundation upon which the financial success is built. Rather, he seems to take it for granted. The club has the global following it does not because of anything that’s happened over the past five years, but in spite of it. Fans worldwide fell in love with the club primarily because of the on field success and the style of play. Not all seasons were glorious during Sir Alex’s tenure, but generally speaking the team played passionate, entertaining football with plenty of trophies. Fans love to be entertained. Fans love winning - particularly younger fans (who grow up to be older, money spending fans). It is off of the work of others that Woodward is able to do his job now. The goodwill doesn’t last forever, though. It was earned and needs to be maintained. Mediocre football won’t cut it. Failure to compete at the very top level won’t suffice. The fan base will eventually erode, with sponsorship dollars along with it. It won’t happen overnight, but it will eventually happen if the club continues down this path. I’d like to think that Woodward recognizes this, but his arrogance, and that if the owners, is pronounced. We won’t have the benefit of another Sir Alex. Without a drastic overhaul on the football side of things, I just can’t see anything changing in a substantive way.
 
At the end of the day, if you want to compete with Citeh and Chelski there has to be a point where you churn through some transfers to get towhere the coach and fans expect the club to be.

The owners want the income, revenue and prestige taking a different route than what is needed in today's world. There are more clubs with similar spending power to Utd and they have leapt ahead since Woody took control. In the NFL and NBA, considerable investment amounts on players are required on a consistent basis to remain on top, but the Glazers have generally been reluctant to fund the Tampa Bay side in the same manner as their competitors.

Teflon Ed needs to either be a lapdog to the owners (which seems most likely), or advise them in no uncertain terms that there has to a period of expenditure to get the team back to be truly competitive. Let's hope he has the gonads and understanding of the issue to confront the problem and its outcomes.
 
steffyr2 said:
Woodward wants shiny and flashy. Defenders are boring. Established veteran players are boring. Backup players? Boring.
That's fairly well established. If only Woodward either knew how to build a football team, or knew he didn't have a clue how to build a football team.
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Zlatan, Miki, Bailly, Matic, Lindelof, Lukaku, Sanchez. I don't know what you are on about. very few of our signings match your beliefs. Woodward has signed the players Jose asked for. You think Woodwward knows who Bailly and Lindelof are?
 
RRCE said:
Woodward gets a lot of credit for his work on the financial side of things, and perhaps justifiably so, but I think he’s missing the big picture here. He didn’t build the foundation upon which the financial success is built. Rather, he seems to take it for granted. The club has the global following it does not because of anything that’s happened over the past five years, but in spite of it. Fans worldwide fell in love with the club primarily because of the on field success and the style of play. Not all seasons were glorious during Sir Alex’s tenure, but generally speaking the team played passionate, entertaining football with plenty of trophies. Fans love to be entertained. Fans love winning - particularly younger fans (who grow up to be older, money spending fans). It is off of the work of others that Woodward is able to do his job now. The goodwill doesn’t last forever, though. It was earned and needs to be maintained. Mediocre football won’t cut it. Failure to compete at the very top level won’t suffice. The fan base will eventually erode, with sponsorship dollars along with it. It won’t happen overnight, but it will eventually happen if the club continues down this path. I’d like to think that Woodward recognizes this, but his arrogance, and that if the owners, is pronounced. We won’t have the benefit of another Sir Alex. Without a drastic overhaul on the football side of things, I just can’t see anything changing in a substantive way.
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Ed has been living off others work for years. Watch the Barcelona - Inside story video which followed them on the 2003/04 season. Laporta is talking about finances, marketing and making money as the club is in serious financial difficulties. He says that the model they have to follow is that of Manchester United who have been acknowledged as world leaders in maximising revenue.

So he inherited a high performing operation and has coasted on their coat-tails ever since. In terms of commercial sponsorships these have been reasonably successful, but if you can't make money from brands when you have a global fanbase as big as ours then you wouldn't be allowed to run a burger van.

In terms of "Customer journey" the club has only just updated it's website after years of under-investment. The ground is starting to show it's age and needs significant investment. The club failed to see the new opportunity of Women's football, indeed we turned away from it just as it was starting to gain momentum. We now lag behind and have had to invest more in order to catch up.

Ed is one of those managers that likes to have big plans / big schemes or big projects, he doesn't seem to focus on minor details that can resolve issues early. He waits until things get really bad and then tries throwing money at it, often in a misguided way. I bet he decided that massively upgrading the dressing room facilities would solve team morale issues.

I'm not bitching about that getting done before other things in the stadium, but I think it just shows his approach. He has given Mourinho too much control and not put in place good safeguards to keep him on an even keel.

If he focused on detail and making smaller changes at the right time our finances would be much healthier, and now he faces another expensive buyout of a Manager's contract.
 
Stacks said:
Zlatan, Miki, Bailly, Matic, Lindelof, Lukaku, Sanchez. I don't know what you are on about. very few of our signings match your beliefs. Woodward has signed the players Jose asked for. You think Woodwward knows who Bailly and Lindelof are?
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This. EW may not be great with footballing matters but he has backed managers. Still, the case for a DoF has never been greater.
 
Stacks said:
Zlatan, Miki, Bailly, Matic, Lindelof, Lukaku, Sanchez. I don't know what you are on about. very few of our signings match your beliefs. Woodward has signed the players Jose asked for. You think Woodwward knows who Bailly and Lindelof are?
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Woodward said he wanted to buy Varane, rather than the boring defender that Mourinho wanted. Don't you take him at his word?
 
buchansleftleg said:
Ed has been living off others work for years. Watch the Barcelona - Inside story video which followed them on the 2003/04 season. Laporta is talking about finances, marketing and making money as the club is in serious financial difficulties. He says that the model they have to follow is that of Manchester United who have been acknowledged as world leaders in maximising revenue.

So he inherited a high performing operation and has coasted on their coat-tails ever since. In terms of commercial sponsorships these have been reasonably successful, but if you can't make money from brands when you have a global fanbase as big as ours then you wouldn't be allowed to run a burger van.

In terms of "Customer journey" the club has only just updated it's website after years of under-investment. The ground is starting to show it's age and needs significant investment. The club failed to see the new opportunity of Women's football, indeed we turned away from it just as it was starting to gain momentum. We now lag behind and have had to invest more in order to catch up.

Ed is one of those managers that likes to have big plans / big schemes or big projects, he doesn't seem to focus on minor details that can resolve issues early. He waits until things get really bad and then tries throwing money at it, often in a misguided way. I bet he decided that massively upgrading the dressing room facilities would solve team morale issues.

I'm not bitching about that getting done before other things in the stadium, but I think it just shows his approach. He has given Mourinho too much control and not put in place good safeguards to keep him on an even keel.

If he focused on detail and making smaller changes at the right time our finances would be much healthier, and now he faces another expensive buyout of a Manager's contract.
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United's wage bill and the lack of funds generated from player sales are two other areas where Woodward needs questioning.
 
Stacks said:
Zlatan, Miki, Bailly, Matic, Lindelof, Lukaku, Sanchez. I don't know what you are on about. very few of our signings match your beliefs. Woodward has signed the players Jose asked for. You think Woodwward knows who Bailly and Lindelof are?
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Maybe Jose didn't know them either. I can say Zlatan and Matic are definite Jose wants. I'm not sure if the others are. If you want to say Woodward has backed Jose, we need to have the few other players we were linked with the past couple of summers on that list you laid out.
 
buchansleftleg said:
Ed has been living off others work for years. Watch the Barcelona - Inside story video which followed them on the 2003/04 season. Laporta is talking about finances, marketing and making money as the club is in serious financial difficulties. He says that the model they have to follow is that of Manchester United who have been acknowledged as world leaders in maximising revenue.

So he inherited a high performing operation and has coasted on their coat-tails ever since. In terms of commercial sponsorships these have been reasonably successful, but if you can't make money from brands when you have a global fanbase as big as ours then you wouldn't be allowed to run a burger van.

In terms of "Customer journey" the club has only just updated it's website after years of under-investment. The ground is starting to show it's age and needs significant investment. The club failed to see the new opportunity of Women's football, indeed we turned away from it just as it was starting to gain momentum. We now lag behind and have had to invest more in order to catch up.

Ed is one of those managers that likes to have big plans / big schemes or big projects, he doesn't seem to focus on minor details that can resolve issues early. He waits until things get really bad and then tries throwing money at it, often in a misguided way. I bet he decided that massively upgrading the dressing room facilities would solve team morale issues.

I'm not bitching about that getting done before other things in the stadium, but I think it just shows his approach. He has given Mourinho too much control and not put in place good safeguards to keep him on an even keel.

If he focused on detail and making smaller changes at the right time our finances would be much healthier, and now he faces another expensive buyout of a Manager's contract.
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I don't agree with this. Jose behaves the way he does because it's a combination of not winning, not getting the backing from his boss and the higher ups either in a player power situation or in the transfer window.
 
Raees said:
Ed clearly part of the ‘survivalist’ crew
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Not really. The briefing was pretty tame. If we do relatively well they'll assess after the City game, if we suffer a defeat against Newcastle it may be a different story. I wonder if the last few years have taught the board anything about preparedness, contingency planning and common sense.
 
“Been owned by the glazers for 13 years, no wonder they’re struggling”

BS headline

Investment has been there. Money has been squandered by successive managers since fergie. Why comparing to city? They’re owned by oil money ffs. Boohoo they got pep because the ex-Barca DoF was already hired

The only gripe I have with the owners at this point now is that the structure is failing the club. Ed shouldn’t be near the football side, let him concentrate on bringing in cash. Get in a football knowledgeable DoF. Get in a forward thinking coach and back him. The last 3 appointments have taken the club backwards
 
Jed I. Knight said:
I genuinely believe that Woodward, and in fairness, the board who are letting him stay at the helm, believe we are too big to fail. And because of this, they are pissing away our competitive advantage (ie financial muscle) at every single turn, and it will soon be completely eroded compared to our rivals.
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Well, Woodward has resided during a time of change and continued growth.
Our profits and turnover have increased since SAF left.
He is doing a fantastic job, on the business.
Be careful not to mix the on-pitch performances with the business performance.

You may think that we are not too big to fail - but all the signs show that as long we remain competitive (not winners, just competitive), that we can continue to be the leading sports brand in the footballing World. And if the growth ever does slow down, he'll spend big on players, which in turn will bring back the crowds and sponsors.

What he is looking for is a manager who can get us top 4, while spending very little. A manager who is reliable and can do this continuously. Arsenal had Wenger doing this. Woodward wants Jose to be that man.
 
buchansleftleg said:
[Woodward] He has given Mourinho too much control and not put in place good safeguards to keep him on an even keel.
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I think the problem is that Jose has not been given enough control.
When he was given total control: Porto, Inter, he won everything with them.
Even when he first took over CFC in the 2000s, he was given a lot of control and he beat SAF to the title for 2 years. When Abramovic started taking that control away from Jose, he left.

Notice how this Summer, it appears that control was taken away from Jose and just look how things are falling apart. Up until last season, we were in 2nd and ready for a final push to the league title, this season.
Instead, Jose has been marginalised and as as result everything has gone to pot.
 
sunama said:
Well, Woodward has resided during a time of change and continued growth.
Our profits and turnover have increased since SAF left.
He is doing a fantastic job, on the business.
Be careful not to mix the on-pitch performances with the business performance.

You may think that we are not too big to fail - but all the signs show that as long we remain competitive (not winners, just competitive), that we can continue to be the leading sports brand in the footballing World. And if the growth ever does slow down, he'll spend big on players, which in turn will bring back the crowds and sponsors.

What he is looking for is a manager who can get us top 4, while spending very little. A manager who is reliable and can do this continuously. Arsenal had Wenger doing this. Woodward wants Jose to be that man.
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Honestly, don't think that's the case. I think he has no qualms going very big, the problem being he thinks that's the only way. Ed is in Fifa mode at the moment, which is why he didn't go after the 3rd and 4th choice targets. I don't think they'll settle for not winning (at least for long periods), they've seen from experience in the last few years, that the fans won't have that.
 
steffyr2 said:
Woodward said he wanted to buy Varane, rather than the boring defender that Mourinho wanted. Don't you take him at his word?
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Verane is a world class CB who just won the world cup. It is logical to break the bank for genuine talent and not another Lindelof,Bailly or whoever. Ed also bought Rojo who is not a big player. Perhaps he is sick of spending £100mill on 3 avg CBs who just get benched and would prefer a lasting CB partnership with top players

hn4manunited said:
Maybe Jose didn't know them either. I can say Zlatan and Matic are definite Jose wants. I'm not sure if the others are. If you want to say Woodward has backed Jose, we need to have the few other players we were linked with the past couple of summers on that list you laid out.
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No. Football does not and never has worked out like this. Never has a manager got EVERY SINGLE PLAYER they have on their shortlist. What a life!!! Fact is most clubs will acquire some and then tell the gaffer to make do. Of course they have still been backed and at the same time, this isn't monopoly. I am sure Pep would love Neymar, Mbappe and previously chased Sanchez but you cannot get it all. At some point the gaffer has to deliver a return on investment and prove himself rather than just demand demand demand. Wenger, Ferguson had to accept missing key targets. Even Real missed out on Neymar and Pogba. Was Zidane not 'backed'
 
Stacks said:
Verane is a world class CB who just won the world cup. It is logical to break the bank for genuine talent and not another Lindelof,Bailly or whoever. Ed also bought Rojo who is not a big player. Perhaps he is sick of spending £100mill on 3 avg CBs who just get benched and would prefer a lasting CB partnership with top players


No. Football does not and never has worked out like this. Never has a manager got EVERY SINGLE PLAYER they have on their shortlist. What a life!!! Fact is most clubs will acquire some and then tell the gaffer to make do. Of course they have still been backed and at the same time, this isn't monopoly. I am sure Pep would love Neymar, Mbappe and previously chased Sanchez but you cannot get it all. At some point the gaffer has to deliver a return on investment and prove himself rather than just demand demand demand. Wenger, Ferguson had to accept missing key targets. Even Real missed out on Neymar and Pogba. Was Zidane not 'backed'
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1 ) You can't be missing key targets in positions you need to invest in when your opponents have more or less covered all their weak points in the last 2 years to the point any signing will be a luxury for them now, while we'll still enter next summer needing to spend loads under the new manager.

2 ) You can't say "he had spent this and this on defense so we shouldn't spend more they flopped" because every manager will have his flops and you're buying for the team not for the current manager. The deal you refused to make for a CB this summer, sooner or later you'll pay it or even more when the next manager asks for a new CB. You're just delaying the inevitable. There's also zero reason the next manager won't have a bad vision as Mourinho in his targets as well so what will you do ? No club is run in that way.
 
It's shocking that a banker is appointed to run the biggest football club in the world at a time that football is evolving rapidly.

We need all the top people from football/sports in the footballing side of the club for planning, development, training, tactics, recruitment, medical, youth, facilities, phycological and etc. Definitely, not a banker who knows nothing about football.
 
sunama said:
I think the problem is that Jose has not been given enough control.
When he was given total control: Porto, Inter, he won everything with them.
Even when he first took over CFC in the 2000s, he was given a lot of control and he beat SAF to the title for 2 years. When Abramovic started taking that control away from Jose, he left.

Notice how this Summer, it appears that control was taken away from Jose and just look how things are falling apart. Up until last season, we were in 2nd and ready for a final push to the league title, this season.
Instead, Jose has been marginalised and as as result everything has gone to pot.
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This just brings us back to the DoF argument, as there's no way i'd want to give Jose complete control - based on signings he's made so far and the style of football he's been implementing.

Some of this just sounds like Jose starts to see his arse - and tear everything down - the minute anything he does is questioned. And being asked to justify themselves should be a normal part of being a manager, not a reason to self-immolate.
 
Stacks said:
Verane is a world class CB who just won the world cup. It is logical to break the bank for genuine talent and not another Lindelof,Bailly or whoever. Ed also bought Rojo who is not a big player. Perhaps he is sick of spending £100mill on 3 avg CBs who just get benched and would prefer a lasting CB partnership with top players


No. Football does not and never has worked out like this. Never has a manager got EVERY SINGLE PLAYER they have on their shortlist. What a life!!! Fact is most clubs will acquire some and then tell the gaffer to make do. Of course they have still been backed and at the same time, this isn't monopoly. I am sure Pep would love Neymar, Mbappe and previously chased Sanchez but you cannot get it all. At some point the gaffer has to deliver a return on investment and prove himself rather than just demand demand demand. Wenger, Ferguson had to accept missing key targets. Even Real missed out on Neymar and Pogba. Was Zidane not 'backed'
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This isn't monopoly but this isn't a console game either. When you need quality, you need quality. You can't just tell the players to go do something they are not capable of by moving a few things on a controller. The argument goes both ways. I would argue that the return on investment is equivalent to what was invested. If you want City type returns, invest like City owners. We didn't invest like City...so coming in second last season was a huge success based on the argument of ROI then?

Wenger was a different discussion but do have some similarities that I can call out. He hasn't spent like others, hence, he's been kept in his role as long as he has because his bosses are happy with what they are getting vs what they put in. It lasted until the fans, media, and everything else put too much pressure on the hierarchy to make a change.

To even bring up Zidane tells me that you don't have the ability to be objective and fair. Zidane had THE Real Madrid squad at his disposal! You are comparing Real Madrid's squad and our squad? You know what? Maybe he left because he knew it was going to be tough to keep the level of success without Ronaldo, and the infusion of new talents. In other words, leaving because he wouldn't get the full backing he needed.
 
sunama said:
I think the problem is that Jose has not been given enough control.
When he was given total control: Porto, Inter, he won everything with them.
Even when he first took over CFC in the 2000s, he was given a lot of control and he beat SAF to the title for 2 years. When Abramovic started taking that control away from Jose, he left.

Notice how this Summer, it appears that control was taken away from Jose and just look how things are falling apart. Up until last season, we were in 2nd and ready for a final push to the league title, this season.
Instead, Jose has been marginalised and as as result everything has gone to pot.
Click to expand...


I'm getting tired of this Jose not getting what he wanted in the summer .

People are deluded if they think Harry Maguire or Toby Alderwield at 70 million each would have turned us into world beaters

If we back the manager here we are only wasting more time and money by the second
 
steffyr2 said:
Woodward said he wanted to buy Varane, rather than the boring defender that Mourinho wanted. Don't you take him at his word?
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Wait, are you serious? Mourinho's man-crush level of love for Varane is very well documented. If we went for Varane, it's likely because he was at the very top of Mourinho's list.
 
sunama said:
I think the problem is that Jose has not been given enough control.
When he was given total control: Porto, Inter, he won everything with them.
Even when he first took over CFC in the 2000s, he was given a lot of control and he beat SAF to the title for 2 years. When Abramovic started taking that control away from Jose, he left.

Notice how this Summer, it appears that control was taken away from Jose and just look how things are falling apart. Up until last season, we were in 2nd and ready for a final push to the league title, this season.
Instead, Jose has been marginalised and as as result everything has gone to pot.
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Totally agree with your post.
 
lsd said:
I'm getting tired of this Jose not getting what he wanted in the summer .

People are deluded if they think Harry Maguire or Toby Alderwield at 70 million each would have turned us into world beaters

If we back the manager here we are only wasting more time and money by the second
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You can get tired of it all you want but getting solid center halves are what most teams who win titles have. A solid proof of people's complaints about us not having good solid central defensive qualities in the squad is the match day thread. It doesn't matter the pairing, people go into a complete and immediate meltdown every time the official line up gets posted.

Title winning sides get built from having a solid defensive unit! You can have all the best attacking players in the world, you can play entertaining football but you won't win titles. Look at City. What did Pep do? He bought lots of defenders because they needed better to win the league.
 
el3mel said:
1 ) You can't be missing key targets in positions you need to invest in when your opponents have more or less covered all their weak points in the last 2 years to the point any signing will be a luxury for them now, while we'll still enter next summer needing to spend loads under the new manager.

2 ) You can't say "he had spent this and this on defense so we shouldn't spend more they flopped" because every manager will have his flops and you're buying for the team not for the current manager. The deal you refused to make for a CB this summer, sooner or later you'll pay it or even more when the next manager asks for a new CB. You're just delaying the inevitable. There's also zero reason the next manager won't have a bad vision as Mourinho in his targets as well so what will you do ? No club is run in that way.
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Liverpool still have Wijnaldum, Milner, Hendo playing CM. I am sure they would love Pogba and Kante. They still have weak points. Arsenal have weaknesses all over the shop as do Chelsea (no decent CF). Would love to know who all these rivals are.

2) Many managers sell before buying. Klopp had to sell Coutinho to finance a spending spree. Why do we still have Jones, Rojo, Bailly, Lindelöf when they are all average? Surely you cannot keep hoarding squad players?

3) Jose is one of the few managers that seem to be afforded the luxury of buying an entire new 1st 11. Most have to work with what they have by en large
 
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