Man City's inevitable Treble

[Dansk]

Pep will go down as one of the greatest ever manager. City was hit or miss, run in the mill title contender before him. He has turned them into a machine.

I'm not sure how much of that can be attributed to him personally. It can just as much be the natural result of years of limitless spending. The club did well in developing a sound structure from the ground up, but is that to his credit? They've also benefitted immensely from ignoring the rules of the sport, operating outside the regulations in a manner that makes it nearly impossible for their competitors to challenge them in the transfer market.

Chelsea and PSG also became powerhouses when the oil money arrived. Newcastle are well on their way, too. While PSG have yet to win the CL, the same goes for City. Chelsea are currently in trouble because of other factors interfering with the running of the club, but they've certainly reached the heights of club football before things got derailed a bit, and probably will again. All this to say that when a club is given all the money it wants and is under no obligation to be financially responsible, they end up at the top as a matter of course. It doesn't appear to matter all that much who the manager is.

While it's certainly true that City are currently presiding over a period of domestic dominance that surpasses what Chelsea have managed in the past, we also need to look at the context here. Pep has ruled the PL during a time when almost all the other clubs that could realistically challenge have been going through a rough patch. Chelsea have been somewhat adrift for a few years, Arsenal were rebuilding and have only now become a contender, United have been nowhere in sight for a decade, Newcastle only just became rich. Only Liverpool has been in a position to prevent City from just automatically winning the title every year, and have done so, but were clearly not equipped to keep it going.

Meanwhile, Pep is notorious for frequently bungling big games with bizarre tactical choices. It's almost what he's known for in Europe. It's what has kept him from winning the CL since Barcelona, and I think anyone with any sense can tell that those trophies were won by Messi, Iniesta, Xavi et al, much moreso than they were won by Pep.

All in all, I don't think he has done much more than any remotely competent manager would accomplish under the same conditions. He started at Barcelona, where it would have been essentially impossible not to win everything with the greatest squad in the history of the sport. Then he went to Bayern, where dominating the league is simply a guarantee. Then he came to City during a time when the other big PL clubs were all in various stages of decline, rebuild, or internal chaos. He's certainly not a poor manager, but I just have yet to see anything from him that isn't simply par for the course. He has chronically underperformed in Europe since he left Barcelona, he has let Leicester of all clubs win the league on his watch, his legitimacy both at Barcelona and City is in serious question, and now he may well win another league title not because City have been brilliant but because the only other competition is Arsenal. Is it really Pep's "brilliance" or the fact that he has spent his managerial career following the path of least resistance, picking the way to the easiest, most weakly-contested trophies?

 

[united_99]

Like i said, no one was calling both of them generational talents though Xavi's talent was well recognized, he was in Deco and Ronaldinho's shadows. And I didn't say they weren't playing, just that they weren't always sure starters, especially Iniesta who was being shipped around different positions.
And during the euros in 2008, Fabregas and Xavi were starters from the beginning, not Iniesta but he grabbed a starting spot as the competition went on.

They were starters. It’s a fact. You have changed it now to „being shipped around different positions“, etc. It’s not hard to check that they were indeed starters. Like Bruno and Rashford are starters for us despite being shipped around different positions (I am not saying they are on their level before anyone says something). Just because they didn’t play every game or every minute of every competition in 2007/08 (the season before Pep) doesn’t mean they weren’t starters. And Fabregas wasn’t a starter during Euros. Iniesta and Xavi were.
So many false statements really.
And Generational talent is used too often. But in reality one can only say after the career or most of it is over if the player was indeed a generational player or not.
And Xavi and Iniesta are called this due to the enormous success they had for club and country and their crucial contributions to it.

 

[Abhinav]

If City do manage to win the treble, it will be an outstanding achievement, irrespective of the fact that they have allegedly cheated & broken the FFP rules.

However, when comparing with United’s 99 treble, you have to compare the context when comparing the achievements. Core of United’s team was home grown and while we did have world class players, we were not really stacked in every area of the field. Plus, we were the first english club to win the Champions league and also the first ones to do after the ban. We overcame the odds to do the impossible.
City won the title the last 2 years, and added a generational striker to their team. A player whose quality was known to everyone and was irrefutable. The money that they spent year on year to bring the best talents to their club has to be taken into account. Their success is built on a good sporting project but also a bottomless pile of cash. They can’t deny it and that is why any achievement will aways carry an asterisk next to it.

 

[Hammondo]

Sir Alex is obviously the greatest, but I would also say Ancelotti, Paisley, Shankly, Michels, Mourinho are better. Managers that you could argue are the likes of Lippi and Zidane.

Pep may play great football when given endless funds and the best team in the league, but the others have won plenty of major honours while being the underdog or having to work within a limit.

This is true, but in 10 years- 15 years, maybe it looks a bit different. I can't see him stopping from winning as long as he goes to a top ish side.

 

[footballistic orgasm]

They were starters. It’s a fact. You have changed it now to „being shipped around different positions“, etc. It’s not hard to check that they were indeed starters. Like Bruno and Rashford are starters for us despite being shipped around different positions (I am not saying they are on their level before anyone says something). Just because they didn’t play every game or every minute of every competition in 2007/08 (the season before Pep) doesn’t mean they weren’t starters. And Fabregas wasn’t a starter during Euros. Iniesta and Xavi were.
So many false statements really.
And Generational talent is used too often. But in reality one can only say after the career or most of it is over if the player was indeed a generational player or not.
And Xavi and Iniesta are called this due to the enormous success they had for club and country and their crucial contributions to it.

You're right about Iniesta starting for the Spanish team in 2008 while Fabregas started 2 games, none of them were in the team of the tournament though.
As for the generational talent argument, Messi was seen as a Generational talent before Pep arrived (being seen as a generational talent doesn't always mean the player will go on to do big thing, Ben Harfa is an example of being a generational talent and doing nothing with the talent), but no one was calling Xavi and Iniesta generational talents before the 2008/2009 season.

 

[footballistic orgasm]

Sir Alex is obviously the greatest, but I would also say Ancelotti, Paisley, Shankly, Michels, Mourinho are better. Managers that you could argue are the likes of Lippi and Zidane.

Pep may play great football when given endless funds and the best team in the league, but the others have won plenty of major honours while being the underdog or having to work within a limit.

None of those coaches have influenced the way the game is played as much as Pep though. Fergie is the greatest manager (not the greatest coach by any means imo) and he's won the most trophies for now, so i can understand why some people will say Fergie.
What title did Ancelotti win while being an underdog though? He failed at Napoli and Everton.
As for Mourinho, there's no way you can seriously tell me that you think he's had a bigger Impact in the way the game is played than Pep has.

 

[Dansk]

None of those coaches have influenced the way the game is played as much as Pep though. Fergie is the greatest manager (not the greatest coach by any means imo) and he's won the most trophies for now, so i can understand why some people will say Fergie.
What title did Ancelotti win while being an underdog though? He failed at Napoli and Everton.
As for Mourinho, there's no way you can seriously tell me that you think he's had a bigger Impact in the way the game is played than Pep has.

How has Pep influenced the way the game is played? Is there some revolutionary style of football associated with him? As far as I can tell, City simply play a generally effective form of 'have more talent on the pitch than the opposition.' It isn't some unique, distinctive approach to football. In the past, he was associated with tiki-taka, but he wasn't actually its creator, and he has since turned his back on that tactic and is quoted saying, "I loathe all that passing for the sake of it, all that tiki-taka. It's so much rubbish and has no purpose." In other words, no one (himself included) would consider that to be something revolutionary and impressive.

City play completely ordinary, generic football except they have the players to outplay most opponents. It isn't particularly distinctive from the way so many other teams play. In fact, their lack of a characteristic style is quite clear in the way he often botches European games by trying all sorts of random tactics that frequently don't work. To me, that's not indicative of a team with a distinctive way of playing football, and other than just spending unbelievable amounts of money and winning a lot of trophies, I just don't see what influence Pep has had on the sport. Certainly not on the way the game is played.

 

[JagUTD]

Probably the most inevitable things possible. No team can stop them.

A new chapter in the history of being the 2nd to do something is about to be made.

 

[footballistic orgasm]

How has Pep influenced the way the game is played? Is there some revolutionary style of football associated with him? As far as I can tell, City simply play a generally effective form of 'have more talent on the pitch than the opposition.' It isn't some unique, distinctive approach to football. In the past, he was associated with tiki-taka, but he wasn't actually its creator, and he has since turned his back on that tactic and is quoted saying, "I loathe all that passing for the sake of it, all that tiki-taka. It's so much rubbish and has no purpose." In other words, no one (himself included) would consider that to be something revolutionary and impressive.

City play completely ordinary, generic football except they have the players to outplay most opponents. It isn't particularly distinctive from the way so many other teams play. In fact, their lack of a characteristic style is quite clear in the way he often botches European games by trying all sorts of random tactics that frequently don't work. To me, that's not indicative of a team with a distinctive way of playing football, and other than just spending unbelievable amounts of money and winning a lot of trophies, I just don't see what influence Pep has had on the sport. Certainly not on the way the game is played.

I can't tell if you're actually being serious with this post or not...

 

[Gazza]

Guardiola has been wildly successful AND had a significant influence to how the game is actually played in general, at the same time. It's beyond debate that he is an utter great of the game.

 

[Irwin99]

I don't think City will do it this year but with Liverpool two games away from a quad last year and City doing the domestic treble a few years ago someone will do it eventually, and it might even become fairly normal, or at least not so rare in the future.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We did have the best squad that season. It was a particularly weak PL season where we had no competition.

Everyone thinks the eventual winners had the best team after the fact. We did beat the team that finished with 89 points the previous season and won the title the following season, by 11 points. And we had players like Cleverley, Jones, Evans, Welbeck etc playing a major role.

Either way, Pep has never done the impossible like Sir Alex did twice at two different clubs. Nor does he ever need to rely on youth and some smart signings like we did to win 5 titles in 7 and a CL. Nor does he stick around once his team declined / transitions a bit - he either walks away ala Barca or is given more state money to spend like it’s nothing. Pep having to deal with situations like Klopp did at Liverpool or SAF did at Aberdeen and then at the start / value signing phase at United would be amusing. But it won’t happen as he’s not built for that - the cheat FC suits him better.

 

[iamking]

Is it really Pep's "brilliance" or the fact that he has spent his managerial career following the path of least resistance, picking the way to the easiest, most weakly-contested trophies?

Let's say we oversimplify things and assume all great managers have been given infinite resources to compete and win the league. I cannot think of any modern manager who can assemble a team and play system as good as Pep can towards crushing the league (can you?). He has a freakishly consistent system that produces enough chances to win 9 out of 10 games against most oppositions. This consistency in creating chances sets him apart than any other manager. It is independent of the opposition's tactical plans or system. His system does not rely much on percentage plays and instead firmly rooted on definitive chance creation and conversion. Also his system relies on retaining the ball much better than any other system, its unbelievably effective. 9 out of 10 games, no matter who the manager is, Pep's team will control possession and thereby gaining game superiority. His team have to literally do bad and lose possession for the opposition to have any chance. (I feel it is here that he trumps SAF because as far as chance creation is concerned we did just as well under SAF as his teams do today).

His players, front to back, have to be technically top notch on the ball and tactically on point without it. There is no hiding place for players without on-the-ball skills. Any team that needs to beat his side to the league have to be absolutely 'PERFECT' and even if so, have difficulties in repeating it season after season as consistently as his teams can. Klopp's system is the only one I have seen his system suffer much and that is purely because Klopps pressing style is an exact anti-Pep system. Then again, Pep has adapted to this challenge by not hesitating to go long (which he never did in his Barca days).I feel right now, Pep's system can handle any team when it comes to a league race.

For football in general, Pep has been the best thing to happen. At the early stage of Mou's Chelsea, I felt bad that defensive managers relying on percentage football and luck (like Mou, Rafa, Simeone etc.) were trumping over beautiful football like ours or Arsenal. Everything felt right when Pep showed up and started crushing these defensive teams inside out while motoring towards the league. Fans were literally embarrassed to watch defensive teams and in effect gradually phased it out of their teams. He has underwhelmed in a one-off CL game, but honestly who cares. I feel CL is just a knockout game where not always the deserving win. Pep has to go down as the greatest football manager of modern era.

 

[Fortitude]

If City do manage to win the treble, it will be an outstanding achievement, irrespective of the fact that they have allegedly cheated & broken the FFP rules.

However, when comparing with United’s 99 treble, you have to compare the context when comparing the achievements. Core of United’s team was home grown and while we did have world class players, we were not really stacked in every area of the field. Plus, we were the first english club to win the Champions league and also the first ones to do after the ban. We overcame the odds to do the impossible.
City won the title the last 2 years, and added a generational striker to their team. A player whose quality was known to everyone and was irrefutable. The money that they spent year on year to bring the best talents to their club has to be taken into account. Their success is built on a good sporting project but also a bottomless pile of cash. They can’t deny it and that is why any achievement will aways carry an asterisk next to it.

What an opening line. You basically made the rest of your post redundant.

If they’d followed the rules they wouldn’t have the squad they have, let alone the first team.

 

[fergieisold]

Nah, we'll beat them at Wembley.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Let's say we oversimplify things and assume all great managers have been given infinite resources to compete and win the league. I cannot think of any modern manager who can assemble a team and play system as good as Pep can towards crushing the league (can you?). He has a freakishly consistent system that produces enough chances to win 9 out of 10 games against most oppositions. This consistency in creating chances sets him apart than any other manager. It is independent of the opposition's tactical plans or system. His system does not rely much on percentage plays and instead firmly rooted on definitive chance creation and conversion. Also his system relies on retaining the ball much better than any other system, its unbelievably effective. 9 out of 10 games, no matter who the manager is, Pep's team will control possession and thereby gaining game superiority. His team have to literally do bad and lose possession for the opposition to have any chance. (I feel it is here that he trumps SAF because as far as chance creation is concerned we did just as well under SAF as his teams do today).

His players, front to back, have to be technically top notch on the ball and tactically on point without it. There is no hiding place for players without on-the-ball skills. Any team that needs to beat his side to the league have to be absolutely 'PERFECT' and even if so, have difficulties in repeating it season after season as consistently as his teams can. Klopp's system is the only one I have seen his system suffer much and that is purely because Klopps pressing style is an exact anti-Pep system. Then again, Pep has adapted to this challenge by not hesitating to go long (which he never did in his Barca days).I feel right now, Pep's system can handle any team when it comes to a league race.

For football in general, Pep has been the best thing to happen. At the early stage of Mou's Chelsea, I felt bad that defensive managers relying on percentage football and luck (like Mou, Rafa, Simeone etc.) were trumping over beautiful football like ours or Arsenal. Everything felt right when Pep showed up and started crushing these defensive teams inside out while motoring towards the league. Fans were literally embarrassed to watch defensive teams and in effect gradually phased it out of their teams. He has underwhelmed in a one-off CL game, but honestly who cares. I feel CL is just a knockout game where not always the deserving win. Pep has to go down as the greatest football manager of modern era.

The fawning from caftards has begun. Going to be a long summer.

 

[Siorac]

How has Pep influenced the way the game is played? Is there some revolutionary style of football associated with him? As far as I can tell, City simply play a generally effective form of 'have more talent on the pitch than the opposition.' It isn't some unique, distinctive approach to football. In the past, he was associated with tiki-taka, but he wasn't actually its creator, and he has since turned his back on that tactic and is quoted saying, "I loathe all that passing for the sake of it, all that tiki-taka. It's so much rubbish and has no purpose." In other words, no one (himself included) would consider that to be something revolutionary and impressive.

City play completely ordinary, generic football except they have the players to outplay most opponents. It isn't particularly distinctive from the way so many other teams play. In fact, their lack of a characteristic style is quite clear in the way he often botches European games by trying all sorts of random tactics that frequently don't work. To me, that's not indicative of a team with a distinctive way of playing football, and other than just spending unbelievable amounts of money and winning a lot of trophies, I just don't see what influence Pep has had on the sport. Certainly not on the way the game is played.

The full quote is a bit different:

“I loathe all that passing for the sake of it, all that tiki-taka. It’s so much rubbish and has no purpose. You have to pass the ball with a clear intention, with the aim of making it into the opposition’s goal. It’s not about passing for the sake of it,”

It's not that he turned his back on his way of playing football, he just clarified that it's not about passing for the sake of it.

 

[Casemiro's_Class]

They'll win the league, Arsenal are absolute dross so i have no doubt about that.

 

[Abhinav]

What an opening line. You basically made the rest of your post redundant.

If they’d followed the rules they wouldn’t have the squad they have, let alone the first team.

What I meant to say was that it would be an outstanding sporting achievement. Yes, the way they have assembled the squad leaves a bitter taste but at the same time, you can’t discount the sacrifice, the hard-work, the skill & the luck that goes into achieving something like this.

 

[adexkola]

What an opening line. You basically made the rest of your post redundant.

If they’d followed the rules they wouldn’t have the squad they have, let alone the first team.

Ah, the rules that ensured top level football remained a virtual oligarchy prior to the likes of City and Chelsea coming into the picture?

Y'all love those rules huh.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

Ah, the rules that ensured top level football remained a virtual oligarchy prior to the likes of City and Chelsea coming into the picture?

Y'all love those rules huh.

Regardless of whether or not the rules are justified or asinine, they still have to be obeyed. A player can't pick up the ball, tuck it under his arm and run across the goal line and claim that the goal should stand because he thinks the handball rule is stupid.

 

[Fortitude]

What I meant to say was that it would be an outstanding sporting achievement. Yes, the way they have assembled the squad leaves a bitter taste but at the same time, you can’t discount the sacrifice, the hard-work, the skill & the luck that goes into achieving something like this.

There's just no ifs or buts on this - you cheat, you should be penalised and discarded.

It's nothing to be glossed over and it's bizarre how many give it a pass in any capacity whatsoever.

 

[Fortitude]

Ah, the rules that ensured top level football remained a virtual oligarchy prior to the likes of City and Chelsea coming into the picture?

Y'all love those rules huh.

Isn't your entire profession based around following the law...?

What nuance or caveat is there to espouse about cheating? Do it better than they have so you're not called on it or in a position where everything you've achieved should be stripped from you?

 

[RedRocket9908]

All these claims that Pep has changed football are nonsence, he hasnt changed anything and just copied his style from people like Johan Cruyff.

Pep has only had 3 jobs and all 3 were clubs who already at the top of their domestic game, had squads full of top players, and massive budgets and didnt really win anything at any of them that you wouldnt have expected any other decent manager to win with those sides.

 

[The Corinthian]

Regardless of whether or not the rules are justified or asinine, they still have to be obeyed. A player can't pick up the ball, tuck it under his arm and run across the goal line and claim that the goal should stand because he thinks the handball rule is stupid.

It’s @adexkola

 

[jm99]

They have not spent much more than us though.

This is such a disingenuous point it's barely worth addressing but let's do it anyway. In 2013 when fergie retired the Glazers had be so miserly for 5 years thay even though we sold a player for 80m which was loads at that time, it just went to interest payments and every area of the team needed reinvestment, you could argue Rooney was still decent, but he was pretty much done. Every single position on the pitch we needed new players

City, on the other hand had zabaleta, kompany, aguero, toure and David Silva. Those later 4 players would be worth 80m plus if you go by fees later in the decade. To say we spent the same as them when they already had such a talented squad that was also pretty young, and that that was the time that fees exploded. That summer they signed fernandinho and we got fellaini. If you look at from when van gaal took over, you had city with world class players in multiple positions, and we didn't have a single world class player in the squad. The fact we've spent the same doesn't reflect the whole picture

 

[footballistic orgasm]

This is such a disingenuous point it's barely worth addressing but let's do it anyway. In 2013 when fergie retired the Glazers had be so miserly for 5 years thay even though we sold a player for 80m which was loads at that time, it just went to interest payments and every area of the team needed reinvestment, you could argue Rooney was still decent, but he was pretty much done. Every single position on the pitch we needed new players

City, on the other hand had zabaleta, kompany, aguero, toure and David Silva. Those later 4 players would be worth 80m plus if you go by fees later in the decade. To say we spent the same as them when they already had such a talented squad that was also pretty young, and that that was the time that fees exploded. That summer they signed fernandinho and we got fellaini. If you look at from when van gaal took over, you had city with world class players in multiple positions, and we didn't have a single world class player in the squad. The fact we've spent the same doesn't reflect the whole picture

Didn't City have one of the oldest squad in the league when Pep arrived? 3 of the players you named (Zabaleta, Toure and Kompany) were around 33yrs old (or almost) if i'm not mistaken ?
Kompany was always injured and wasn't part of Pep's plans when he wasn't until the 2nd half of the season when they won their 2nd title (which was Kompany's last season).
Toure wasn't the same player he was 2 seasons earlier before Pep arrived.

As for the Fernandina and Fellaini comparison, are you trying to imply that Fernandinho was rated higher than Fellaini back then when they both arrived ? Because that will be re-writing history.

 

[jm99]

Didn't City have one of the oldest squad in the league when Pep arrived? 3 of the players you named (Zabaleta, Toure and Kompany) were around 33yrs old (or almost) if i'm not mistaken ?
Kompany was always injured and wasn't part of Pep's plans when he wasn't until the 2nd half of the season when they won their 2nd title (which was Kompany's last season).
Toure wasn't the same player he was 2 seasons earlier before Pep arrived.

As for the Fernandina and Fellaini comparison, are you trying to imply that Fernandinho was rated higher than Fellaini back then when they both arrived ? Because that will be re-writing history.

Well hold on, is this when pep arrived or when fergie retired? Because you can't say kompany and toure had aged, but also that fernandinho wasn't rated highly in 2013. When fergie retired, they had a much stronger squad, by the time pep took over they had de bruyne in the squad, and Silva and aguero.

The comparison in spending is usually done since fergie retired, and since then they had a solid spine and we needed replacements in every area.

 

[sullydnl]

 

[Libero_of_Yore]

All these claims that Pep has changed football are nonsence, he hasnt changed anything and just copied his style from people like Johan Cruyff.

Pep has only had 3 jobs and all 3 were clubs who already at the top of their domestic game, had squads full of top players, and massive budgets and didnt really win anything at any of them that you wouldnt have expected any other decent manager to win with those sides.

Yes, Barcelona were so on top of their domestic game that they finished 3rd in La Liga, behind the mighty Villareal. He won 2 CLs and 3 league titles in 4 seasons at Barca. The most successful Barca manager of all time. No other Barca manager has ever won more than 1 CL/Euro, or even 6 trophies in one season. He created one of the very best club sides in the history of the Sport. Buy yeah, "any other decent manager would have won what he did". Sure.

 

[FrankFoot]

Fair point but SAF should have been more successful in Europe though.

SAF during the 90s didn't have the biggest spending in Europe, and he was going against better teams from leagues with more money and higher UEFA coefficient, PL was between the 5-6th league in Europe back then based on european performances and wages.

He should have done better in Europe i agree, but so does Pep.

 

[jm99]

Yes, Barcelona were so on top of their domestic game that they finished 3rd in La Liga, behind the mighty Villareal. He won 2 CLs and 3 league titles in 4 seasons at Barca. The most successful Barca manager of all time. No other Barca manager has ever won more than 1 CL/Euro, or even 6 trophies in one season. He created one of the very best club sides in the history of the Sport. Buy yeah, "any other decent manager would have won what he did". Sure.

I don't think that anyone will deny pep did a very good job at Barca, but no matter where they finished in the league, that team in 07/08 outplayed us at old Trafford, when we won with Scholes' wonder strike and were on the back foot. They were inconsistent, but to pretend he didn't inherit a ridiculously talented side is also wrong. One of the biggest differences from 07/08 to the next season was Messi being fit rather than injured so much. While guardiola changed things and got them playing very consistently, it was already a team with a very high ceiling before he took over

 

[FrankFoot]

Pretty sure this place was just as active as it is now back in 08, I wasnt a member then but I would check this place regularly and it was pretty active IIRC. MySpace was out by 08, pretty sure FB was already pretty popular.

Facebook took a while to be popular, its popularity worldwide skyrocketed around 2010. Before that it was only very popular in United States.

And i doubt people were using Facebook on 2008 to talk about football, i remember that back then most of the site was used for memes, cause it was mostly used by very young people (unlike nowadays).

 

[FrankFoot]

Pep is great manager, one of the best ever.

But given the circumstances, i think at league level SAF was better, and at european level Ancelloti is better.

However I think Pep's peak with Barca were higher.

 

[Theonas]

The only thing sadder and more pathetic than downplaying Pep's achievement and what he's done for the game are the people who claimed Fergie bought refs and benefited from having the richest club in the land to achieve what he did. The man is a genius, just like Fergie was a genius in a different way and as always, there is no better judge of these things than their colleagues. You can pick holes in literally everyone's argument for greatness, because no one that has ever existed has a flawless CV but downplay these greats' achievement is just miserable.

 

[sullydnl]

Guardiola is comfortably the most influential manager of the last 20 years. And it's odd that people who watch the PL week in week out would doubt his influence given how evident it is in this league alone, where long-ball football is dead relative to what it was pre-Guardiola.

 

[RedRonaldo]

People downplaying Pep achievement in the game is strange.

Sure one could argue Klopp leading Liverpool back to the top, or Tuchel winning CL with Chelsea was more impressive, as they are working at a budget relatively. But did any of them managed to keep up anywhere near the same level of consistency as Pep over the years?

Barca - 14 trophies in 4 seasons
Bayern - 7 trophies in 3 seasons
City - 11 trophies in 6 seasons

I don’t even bother to go through a long list of managers who had spent huge amount of money but failed all these years.

Just look no further at us, I believe we have spent nearly same amount of money as City during the post Fergie era, and we are not even 1/10 as successful as City under Pep.

FFS.

And look at the list of managers PSG and Chelsea had over the years, and the amount of money they’ve spent too, and how unbalance/underperformed they played as team at times. Doesn’t really need rocket scientist to figure out how good is Pep, and how money just don’t necessarily guarantee success at this level of the game.

 

[Member 109952]

People downplaying Pep achievement in the game is strange.

Sure one could argue Klopp leading Liverpool back to the top, or Tuchel winning CL with Chelsea was more impressive, as they are working at a budget relatively. But did any of them managed to keep up anywhere near the same level of consistency as Pep over the years?

Barca - 14 trophies in 4 seasons
Bayern - 7 trophies in 3 seasons
City - 11 trophies in 6 seasons

I don’t even bother to go through a long list of managers who had spent huge amount of money but failed all these years.

Just look no further at us, I believe we have spent nearly same amount of money as City during the post Fergie era, and we are not even 1/10 as successful as City under Pep.

FFS.

And look at the list of managers PSG and Chelsea had over the years, and the amount of money they’ve spent too, and how unbalance/underperformed they played as team at times. Doesn’t really need rocket scientist to figure out how good is Pep, and how money just don’t necessarily guarantee success at this level of the game.

City have significantly outspent us post their 2008 takeover I believe. The turning point was around 2016 - Van Gaal gutted out squad and left us with trash. Look at the squads when Pep and Mourinho took over. Pep had KDB, Sterling, David Silva, Kompany and a few others. Who did United have? A past it Rooney and De Gea?

I find Klopp's achievements far more impressive. 3 CL finals, one win, and came what a point of two behind City twice in the league? All the while playing the same front 3 of Mane, Salah and Firmino with no rotation, or change Jota for Firmino last season when Firmino got injured. Pep meanwhile could happily rotate between 6 or 7 attackers. Klopp was just as good as City with a fraction of the spend. Can you say the same for Pep if Klopp and Pep switched teams? Maybe but we don't know, Pep's always been at teams that either had stacked squads or an unlimited budget. I mean they can sign Grealish for £100m and Kalvin Phillips for £50m and barely play them if they chose too.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Pep is great manager, one of the best ever.

Why? What has he done to justify calling him one of the best ever?

If he is so good why has he struggled to win the Champions League in 12 years despite having the best squads and huge funds to improve them further and why did he take FC Bayern so far backwards while he was there?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Just look no further at us, I believe we have spent nearly same amount of money as City during the post Fergie era, and we are not even 1/10 as successful as City under Pep.

This comparison have to stop. You simply cannot compare City and the way they are run to us under Woodward and the Glazers. We have been a case study for incompetent football administration and a lesson in how not to do things. Everyone looks good compare to us.

Other clubs that provide the manager with a strong spine of support are the likes of Liverpool and Madrid, who have also spent (Liverpool less so) but also won big trophies (Liverpool relative to spending really). Beyond that it’s Bayern who have been well run until recently and they’ve been very successful too albeit in a league that they pretty much own. Then you have clubs like Brighton and many others who at a smaller scale consistently over achieve vs people’s expectations because they are well coached and well run (again a common theme).

That’s key nowadays. The likes of Pep,Klopp etc are more coaches than SAF style managers (old / English school) who basically could lead the entire club. They deserve all the credit for what they are doing in this age but SAF was greatest and a complete anomaly.