City with Silva, Aguero, Fernandinho, Kdb, Kompany, Toure. City who was champion 2 years before he was hired. That City. And he needed to spend over billion and buy Haaland to (probably) win CL.
Man City's inevitable Treble
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Yeah, so what you're saying is the tools were there but it took a great mind to push them into record breaking heights from the slums of fourth place like Pep did? Thanks. Glad we cleared that up.
Unfortunately I cannot respect anything Man City achieve for the way they have gone about things,
Until they are proven innocent on all accounts of not breaching FFP rules, have acted within the laws that all clubs are restricted by, including inflated and fake sponsorships to spend more oil money from their sugar daddy on players who had never heard of them 10-12 years ago, im sorry, i cant take their achievements seriously
Pep unfortunately whether he was aware or not will have these hoodoos his whole career, barca bribing referees, bayern buying up all the talent from close rivals in the german league, man city and the above points,
Im sorry but its never been done correctly by the guy, his legacy is tarnished whether he knew about these things or not
Until they are proven innocent on all accounts of not breaching FFP rules, have acted within the laws that all clubs are restricted by, including inflated and fake sponsorships to spend more oil money from their sugar daddy on players who had never heard of them 10-12 years ago, im sorry, i cant take their achievements seriously
Pep unfortunately whether he was aware or not will have these hoodoos his whole career, barca bribing referees, bayern buying up all the talent from close rivals in the german league, man city and the above points,
Im sorry but its never been done correctly by the guy, his legacy is tarnished whether he knew about these things or not
Whatever Faustian pact he's signed will see him never win a CL without Messi.
In all seriousness, I think Real Madrid will judo them again and Ancelotti will 50/50 ride off (to the Brazil job) with another CL.
Pep 's a smart, if slightly 'eccentric' guy, who won't take a job unless both the team and the set-up are not just good but best in (national, at least) class, so he was never going to sign up to the United project with Glazers in charge, even if Munich hadn't come calling and he was available in Summer 2013.
The line is that at least 3-4 top managers turned down the job not only because of potential pressure of trying to emulate SAF, but because, even during the pre- Woodward era, it was clear what kind of owners the Glazers were and were going to continue to be and how incoherent the set-up was (reliant on SAF to hold things together). However, I think taking on the role under these conditions ( winning Pl by managing upward to get the right players and rejuvenating ageing squad with huge gaps in '13) would have been the only way (short of taking a lower-middle tier club and challenging for the league) that he could have proved himself already as an unequivocal great.
He's clearly brilliant in terms of a clear coaching and playing philosophy., at bringing in the right coaches in conjunction with his Execs, with keeping a squad of top players motivated etc, but it's still all been too smooth, compared to the real 'club building' amidst structural challenges that SAF did. I know people laugh at the Poch stans (and I'd still rather have ETH) but if Poch had won at least 1 PL at Spurs and beaten the scouse in that CL, then he might also start to be in that conversation, given Tottenham's issues. ..
In all seriousness, I think Real Madrid will judo them again and Ancelotti will 50/50 ride off (to the Brazil job) with another CL.
Pep 's a smart, if slightly 'eccentric' guy, who won't take a job unless both the team and the set-up are not just good but best in (national, at least) class, so he was never going to sign up to the United project with Glazers in charge, even if Munich hadn't come calling and he was available in Summer 2013.
The line is that at least 3-4 top managers turned down the job not only because of potential pressure of trying to emulate SAF, but because, even during the pre- Woodward era, it was clear what kind of owners the Glazers were and were going to continue to be and how incoherent the set-up was (reliant on SAF to hold things together). However, I think taking on the role under these conditions ( winning Pl by managing upward to get the right players and rejuvenating ageing squad with huge gaps in '13) would have been the only way (short of taking a lower-middle tier club and challenging for the league) that he could have proved himself already as an unequivocal great.
He's clearly brilliant in terms of a clear coaching and playing philosophy., at bringing in the right coaches in conjunction with his Execs, with keeping a squad of top players motivated etc, but it's still all been too smooth, compared to the real 'club building' amidst structural challenges that SAF did. I know people laugh at the Poch stans (and I'd still rather have ETH) but if Poch had won at least 1 PL at Spurs and beaten the scouse in that CL, then he might also start to be in that conversation, given Tottenham's issues. ..
Absolutely. If i was a club owner with great team and unlimited money, he would be my no1 choice. Because he IS talented manager.
Yeah I agree with this. Great manager but not greatest. Everything he did at his clubs has been replicated by someone else at those same clubs in a very short time. That alone shows you that every team he has coached has a significant built in competitive advantage that is more responsible for the dominance than his coaching.
Barcelona treble - Luis Enrique.
Bayern Title - Every Bayern coach in the last 10 years. Heynckes and Flick even went one better and did the treble.
Man City PL Title and domestic cup wins - Mancini, Pellegrini.
Perhaps. I hated it when Liverpool won the league, but I have admiration for what they’done. I can’t ever begrudge Liverpool’s success. I despise them, but they’re a well run club with history to back it up.
It bothers me watching City clear up in much the same way as seeing Blackburn win the league.
Pep’s style of football is good. He’s a good coach, but he’s never really been tested. He’s never built a team without having unlimited resources and he’s always taken over teams that are already way out in front in their domestic league. You can’t argue that the players deserve it. They’ve been incredible, but it doesn’t really feel quite right, especially under the cloud of suspicious financial activity.
Good luck with your relegation battle btw. I’m seriously hoping you survive. My GF will be broken if you drop down.
And all the records he broke in 2017/18 including the first 100 point total? How about the 2018/19 domestic quadruple, which Alex Ferguson himself called impossible?
That idea falls apart when you actually look at City's squad and realise that individually, barely anyone other than City fans rate most of them. The average fan would tell you that Liverpool have better players in just about every position.
There are two players in the City squad who everyone agrees are the best in the league in their position: De Bruyne and Haaland.
Did you say that Ancelotti built his teams? Which great teams did he build? He didn't build the first Real he won the CL win, he definitely didn't build last years team, he didn't build the PSG team, he didn't build the Napoli team, he didn't build the Everton team and he didn't build the Bayern team.
Pure revisionism.
And Pep avoided challenges, unlike Carlo, you say. Well, Carlo took on the great challenge of Everton, and he failed miserably. He also took on the challenge of Napoli, again failed miserably. So it appears that Don Carlo only thrives at big teams, with big players.
And you say he dominated domestically with AC? Surely, he was there 8 years and won ONE league title.
And didn't that 01 Milan he inherited already have Maldini, Costacurta, Rui Costa, Gattuso, Sheva Inzhagi?
Didn't the 13/14 Real squad he inherited already have Cassilas, Pepe, Ramos, Varane, Marcelo, Di Maria, Xabi Alonso, Modric, Casemiro, Ronaldo and Benzema? And he never even won a league with them (also added Bale)
Look who else needs stars and big players to win things
Carlo has never dominated a single league, and for that reason will never eat with Pep and Sir Alex.
In that season he rounded spending on one billion, right? So that is one billion which he spends on his team. Yeah, we spend also a lot but it is not the same when 4 managers spent money and when one does it. When one does it it is 20 players which he alone picked. And then he has 250 mil worth players on the bench.
Ah, sorry. I forgot that City fans don't count players who are payed "only" 40-60 mil. Pep and City fans count only those around 100. Buying one player for 100 mil is spending big, buying 4 players for 70 mil is "normal" spending.
He is prime example of cheque book manager. But him and you City fans have problems to accept it.
The fact that it's taken them 15 years to win the CL with the budget they've had plus all the rule breaking must be quite embarassing.
This is a logical contradiction that has been ignored by most on this topic
I can't think of a single City player for whom I've not heard the expression, "looks better due to the system". Yet the system creater is a fraud. Someone make it make sense
"Everyone agrees" in logic is called argumentum ad populum and represents logical fallacy.
Mahrez was top right winger in PL before City. Which is why his cost was 70 mil.
Bernardo Silva was hot stuff in Europe before City. Gundogan was one of main Dortmund players. Grealish was top left winger in Villa already. Rodri was highly rated dmc before City. Dias was top defender in Portugal. Cancelo was already great for Juve. Laporte same for Bilbao.
All those players perform for NT also. And they were main players in their orevious teams.
You City fans present those players like Pep bought them for small money and as unknown players.
This is a logical contradiction that has been ignored by most on this topic
I can't think of a single City player for whom I've not heard the expression, "looks better due to the system". Yet the system creater is a fraud. Someone make it make sense
Yeah it's always funny hearing that. You have people saying that about Sané, Sterling, Jesus and many others. I wonder what that says about Guardiola if he elevated all those to the extend that they were and are referred to as system players.
Its isn't just a 100 point total. He won by the largest points spread in premier league history, had the highest total in premier league history, with the largest goals difference ever, most wins ever all in the same campaign. Its staggering how dominant that team was in the league that season.
To then go ahead and get 99 points the very next season is almost silly. He's going to win 5 titles in 6 years if he reels Arsenal in here. And he'll go down as the 2nd greatest manager in the Premier league era of English football, and nobody is even that close. He's leaving Wenger and Mourinho in dust.
Thank you! I can't believe someone would say Pep has achieved no different at City than Mancini and Pellegrini did, what a bad opinion.
Zinchenko and Sterling. One is playing like his usual self in his new club due to being coached by a guy with a system that is quite familiar to the one used by Guardiola and the other is having the worst season of his career in his new club due to the shambolic state of it both on and off the pitch. If this is not an enough proof of what an AMAZING coach Guardiola is, i dont know what is then..This is a logical contradiction that has been ignored by most on this topic
I can't think of a single City player for whom I've not heard the expression, "looks better due to the system". Yet the system creater is a fraud. Someone make it make sense
Winning the treble without the aid of state sponsored financial doping will always be the greater achievement, and comfortably so.
SAF didn't have a crystal ball though did he. He didn't know that you were going to become a State Funded team with unlimited wealth. The records you've achieved are impossible without state funding. You are immune to the vagaries that happen throughout a season with player injuries, suspensions & loss of form. A £60 Mill CB is injured you bring a £50 Mill CB into the team. A £60 Mill FB is causing a problem in the dressing room you ship him off abroad. Your £100 Mill winger isn't cutting it you have a £60 Mill back up. The records you break are worthless as they are impossible to replicate unless a club has unlimited funds at it's disposal.
This needs to be pinned or something. Plus add to the list Walker and now Haaland.
No surprise we don't see any of the people claiming Guardiola "elevated" a bunch of Sunday league players, responding to this.
He probably didn't factor in state funded systematic cheating.
The main reason he got those point totals was because the league was poor and most teams didnt turn up againat them, teams would go to City having accepted defeat before a ball was kicked and would just sit back in their own half all game hoping they didnt conceed too many.
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Domestic quadruple? Are we seriously counting the Community Shield as a trophy now?
I think that's the difference, there will be a respect for Liverpool doing it due to their history but it's nice being 'that' club that has done it compared to them. With City I think there will always be a tinge of the * over it.
Thanks bud, fingers crossed but doesn't look good for us.
Domestic quadruple
I thought that was something you would only read on Bluemoon.
Regarding points total maybe next season City can just buy a couple of more CBs and midfielders as if it was nothing and then win all their league and CL games bar maybe a couple.
Amazing achievement.
I thought that was something you would only read on Bluemoon.
Regarding points total maybe next season City can just buy a couple of more CBs and midfielders as if it was nothing and then win all their league and CL games bar maybe a couple.
Amazing achievement.
Stephen Whiteteeth and Sue Hairstyle went full hyperbole and invoked “the greatest team in history of the premier League” today on Sky
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ManCity this season = anything with honey and garlic. Sounds nice in concept but tastes like shit.
Given that City represents the polar opposite of fair play - cheating and corruption on a scale perhaps never before seen in English football, then no. I don't think anyone will be wishing them "fair" play
They have not spent much more than us though.
At this point I don't see what could happen to stop him going down as the best ever.
If all his Barcelona titles get stripped due to the referee scandal and all his PL titles get stripped due to the financial doping scandal then all he would have left are German league titles which managers get sacked for winning all the time.
Sure, that's why we are both under investigation for breaking a bunch of financial rules? Give it a rest with this rubbish about both clubs having "equal" spend.
No chance. Arsenals genuine success everyday over City’s artificial one. The drivel we’ll be reading and hearing about their treble, Pep etc will be nauseating.
In this thread alone we have the oddballs claiming he’ll surpass Sir Alex soon.
Bingo. I think a lot of us were delusional about the situation of the two clubs. They were miles ahead of us. Sometimes the currrnt position doesn’t reflect the quality - same with Barcelona when he took over.
What could happen is that people could think beyond sheer trophy count and see the context involved. In which case it’s clear why SAF is numero uno. He created a footballing empire from a drunk has been giant and did the impossible at Aberdeen.
Otherwise I’m picking Dani Alves as the greatest footballer of all time.
But no one is claiming that our managers in the last decade - that’s when we started spending crazy money - were anything special. Mourinho 1.0 would have had great success for a couple of seasons (winning big trophies), but we got Mourinho 2.0.
In addition our managers couldn’t rely on a competent board.
At City they have everything in addition to cheating: oil money to burn, facilities/infrastructure made by Abu Dhabi, competent board structure and a great and experienced manager.
We had the Glazers and Ed Woodward in charge. You cannot compare other normal clubs with ours run by these bafoons.
That's the point, it will be drivel and can be swatted off.
The existence of a certain Sir Alex Ferguson.