Man City's inevitable Treble

Dancfc said:
It's not an easy thing to do, but can you honestly say any team are currently doing everything they can to give themselves every chance? Even when they're in a position of advantage.

The same was being said about us in the mid 00s but unfortuently for us there was actually a club/manager back then that didn't read the script.


To give one example you're the biggest club in the country and you have who many people regard as your best player tweeting "one step closer" about a top four finish.

Could you even imagine a Real Madrid player doing that while Atletico were crusing to 3 titles in a row and a possible treble?
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That is as bad an analogy as your cheap Antony - Mudryk comparison based on an article you didn’t even read a while ago.
We are fighting for top four mainly because of the incompetence of our owners and not because our players are tweeting something. I would be worried if they were tweeting about being close to winning the title if they are absolutely not.
And yes if Real Madrid have had the decade we had and Atletico were taken over by Abu Dhabi instead of City, I can absolutely imagine Real Madrid players doing that.
 
The Corinthian said:
It's a safe assumption to make. You can't extrapolate form if you change the starting 11 from the guys that have won the league to youth/reserve players.
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I mean, if a team wins 23 out of 30 games and clinches the league in the 30th game, even if they put out the same 11 for the remaining 8 games, assuming they win the final 8 games is a stretch. They would certainly win more games than if they just played the youth team.
 
Points totals really don't say much imo especially when comparing different years and especially eras. They only tell the story of the season you're in.

Our 11/12 team which was one of Fergie's worst in the PL got 89 points while our 07/08 team finished with 87.

Points totals only mean something when its a level that hasn't been achieved before. Like City getting 100pts or Jose's team that had 95 with one loss.
 
Dancfc said:
Refusing to go the extra mile when you have an 8 point lead over them or getting in three underwhelming loans when you have an outside chance can't be put on City.

They may have advantages but no one bar Liverpool for a while (and even that was aided by a Coutinho windfall) seem to make any effort to even try and properly challenge them, be it by maximising the resources they have got and/or putting a solid structure in place.
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I'm not sure what that means. Are you talking about transfers? Would dropping £100m on Mudryk have won us the league?
 
Daydreamer said:
I'm not sure what that means. Are you talking about transfers? Would dropping £100m on Mudryk have won us the league?
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Going hard for a CB probably would have, as you then wouldn't have had to rely on Holding for the title run in.

A marquee midfielder over Jorginho aswell.
 
Dancfc said:
To give one example you're the biggest club in the country and you have who many people regard as your best player tweeting "one step closer" about a top four finish.

Could you even imagine a Real Madrid player doing that while Atletico were crusing to 3 titles in a row and a possible treble?
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It's a lot easier to be bolshy about some divine right to be at the very top when a) you get a disproportionate amount of TV income relative to the competition and b) it's a much less competitive league with only a couple of title rivals (at best - Atletico are perennial 3rd placers by and large).
 
iamking said:
If City win the treble, the GOAT argument ends with Pep. There were times under SAF, I felt that defensive camp and counter managers with shit on stick awful football, under the garb of tactics used to always outwit us in key matches. God I used to hate them and it was a general theme in Europe.

SAF failed, Wenger failed, more recently even Klopp failed and a lot of other attacking managers failed to these 'tactical genius' craps like Mou, Capello, Ancelotti, Rafa, Simeone etc. It is here that Pep lays his GOAT Claim separating himself from his peers. He can absolutely destroy these billion dollar stacked Stoke City imitating campers by playing his beautiful attacking football. Hard to grudge the man.

Watch the CL win last season where an absolute Gobshite Madrid team lucking it out to a CL win and then compare it to the current City team dominantly motoring towards the final. The difference is stark. If he crosses the final hurdle, Pep would certainly be favorite for the GOAT.
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This is the rubbish sort of posts we are going to have to endure now. Go and start a Pep church already.
 
You can't separate City's footballing output with the cheating it took to get there. Unless you want to troll people.
 
united_99 said:
£ 3.75 m. Was record British transfer in 1993. But he didn’t start in Barcelona in May 99, so a zero cost academy player had to replace him.
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Blomqvist replaced him as Beckham was shifted centrally with Giggs on the right. Butt started with Scholes out as those two often rotated in those days.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
I also think it hurts his legacy that he never won a CL at Bayern.
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Bayern doesn't win the CL every season. In reality Bayern has only won the CL 3 times in the last 45yrs. Pep coached Bayern for 3 of those
 
MrMarcello said:
Blomqvist replaced him as Beckham was shifted centrally with Giggs on the right. Butt started with Scholes out as those two often rotated in those days.
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I mean all this shifting happened due to both Keane and Scholes missing the final.
But those two matched well against Bayern’s midfield and SAF started both in both group matches against Bayern in the same season. I know Scholes didn’t always start but rotation between him and Butt mostly took place in the league. In the CL Scholes started 10 games while Butt started 4 including the final. I am sure without suspension Keane and Scholes would have started the final. Doesn’t matter at the end who Butt replaced as he was always going to start with the other two out.
 
The financial doping club with two starting 11s winning a treble in a season that had a WC in the middle of it? Shocking developments I say. Who knows if this context will be applied historically though.
 
MrMarcello said:
Blomqvist replaced him as Beckham was shifted centrally with Giggs on the right. Butt started with Scholes out as those two often rotated in those days.
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Also if it was only Keane missing do you not believe SAF would have started Beckham, Butt, Giggs and Scholes? In this case Butt would be replacing Keane.
 
united_99 said:
Also if it was only Keane missing do you not believe SAF would have started Beckham, Butt, Giggs and Scholes? In this case Butt would be replacing Keane.
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I honestly don't care if you want to say Butt to fit your academy zero cost narrative or say it was Blomqvist, doesn't matter to me, have it your way.
 
MrMarcello said:
I honestly don't care if you want to say Butt to fit your academy zero cost narrative or say it was Blomqvist, doesn't matter to me, have it your way.
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It’s not a narrative if it is true. Butt was an academy player and he started the final because Keane and Scholes were out.
 
The Corinthian said:
My point being - Fergie would have cleared 90 points fairly regularly if he was playing a strong 11 every game after winning the league.
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Sorry, its just not true. There were a few seasons like that but the vast majority of your title wins weren't like that at all. It's not a knock on Fergie, that's just not how football was back then. Football was a lot less tactical and robotic and there was just more room for random shit to happen and the best teams to drop points. Getting over 90 points was extremely rare for anybody, which is why Mourinho's 95 point and 91 point seasons stood out so much when it happened. Even Fergie only went over 90 once in a 38 match season. There were definitely two other times he could have done it (06-07 and 12-13). Beyond that, you have to really stretch, like in the example you cited.

From the start of the 38 match PL schedule in 1995 until 2016, only three sides went over 90 points: United 99-00, Chelsea 04-05, and Chelsea 05-06.

From 2016 to the present teams have gone over 90 points seven times and City is probably going to make it 8 this year.
 
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It is hilarious and hard to describe how much less this bothers me than the thought of Liverpool doing it last season. When they were so close it was hideous.

I wonder if City will ever have that level of emotional reaction from most fans, or is it simply impossible because of what they are?
 
Tom Van Persie said:
He took over a team that had just won the treble.
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Ferguson won a treble in 1999, He couldn't win the CL in 2000 he didn't win another CL for 9yrs
Pep won the treble in 2009, he couldn't win in 2010
Inter won in 2010, they couldn't win in 2011
Barca won the treble in 2015, they couldn't win the CL the following season, they haven't won another CL since then
Bayern again won the treble in 2020, they couldn't win it in 2021

Since 1995, Only Madrid have successfully defended the CL. Some of the above examples were coaches managing the same team who won 12months earlier and failed to defend it and win it again for years. They didn't even have to take over a new team or implement their new ideas
 
Powderfinger said:
Sorry, its just not true. There were a few seasons like that but the vast majority of your title wins weren't like that at all. It's not a knock on Fergie, that's just not how football was back then. Getting over 90 points was extremely rare for anybody, which is why Mourinho's 95 point season stood out so much when it happened. Even Fergie only went over 90 once in a 38 match season. There were definitely two other times he could have done it (06-07 and 12-13). Beyond that, you have to really stretch, like in the example you cited.
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And that 95-point Chelsea season pretty much nails down what a few other comments in here have said - squad depth. Chelsea spent ridiculous sums from summer 2003 to summer 2006, unmatched sums at the time. Mourinho inherited a squad good enough for 2nd place in 2004, immediately spent nearly 100m (in 2004 pounds) to assemble a new starting XI plus depth, thus giving Chelsea literally two starting XIs with not a massive dropoff in overall quality. Chelsea became a machine when the manager can plug-in this talent for that injured player.

SAF never had that opportunity to invest so lavishly, buy a new first XI every 18 months or so. Nor did Wenger nor did Dalglish nor did Keegan nor did Houllier nor did...

But Ranieri would have if Roman hadn't fired him. Maybe not the same players and definitely not the same system but Chelsea still win a league title or two with Raneiri benefitting from Roman's free spending.
 
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We actually lost fewer games in 98/99 (4, 5 including CS) than City have this season (5, 6 including CS).

So to summarize: feck City.
 
If they win it I think we can get our Guardiola back sooner. I hope they win it already.
 
I think they're doing the double at the very least.
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
He doesn't give a feck about you mate.
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He loves Barcelona, he left because he couldn't work with Rossell and Bartomeu, the two worst presidents we've had by far. He will eventually come back if we need him (I hope we don't and Xavi proceso himself as a manager)
 
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MexicanCowboy said:
He loves Barcelona, he left because he couldn't work with Rossell and Bartomeu, the two worst presidents we've had by far. He will eventually come back if we need him (I hope we don't and Xavi proceso himself as a manager)
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Nah the sheikhs pay too well, and that's all he cares about.
 
MrMarcello said:
And that 95-point Chelsea season pretty much nails down what a few other comments in here have said - squad depth. Chelsea spent ridiculous sums from summer 2003 to summer 2006, unmatched sums at the time. Mourinho inherited a squad good enough for 2nd place in 2004, immediately spent nearly 100m (in 2004 pounds) to assemble a new starting XI plus depth, thus giving Chelsea literally two starting XIs with not a massive dropoff in overall quality. Chelsea became a machine when the manager can plug-in this talent for that injured player.

SAF never had that opportunity to invest so lavishly, buy a new first XI every 18 months or so. Nor did Wenger nor did Dalglish nor did Keegan nor did Houllier nor did...

But Ranieri would have if Roman hadn't fired him. Maybe not the same players and definitely not the same system but Chelsea still win a league title or two with Raneiri benefitting from Roman's free spending.
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Absolutely, well said. And that's certainly one of the keys to City's current dominance. They can rotate through about 16 field players without seeing a meaningful drop in quality and those players are flexible enough that every position is essentially covered. They're not putting out Rob Holding or Wout Weghorst for important runs of matches.
 
Chief123 said:
I’d just like to take this opportunity to congratulate City on the treble. Amazing achievement.

Very very very comfortable victory tonight. 4-0 maybe even 5-0. Done deal.
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Tomorrows Euromillions numbers if you wouldn't mind
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
The financial doping club with two starting 11s winning a treble in a season that had a WC in the middle of it? Shocking developments I say. Who knows if this context will be applied historically though.
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We have the smallest squad in the league and have used the least amount of players this season. So that's just false isn't it?
 
kaiser1 said:
Ferguson won a treble in 1999, He couldn't win the CL in 2000 he didn't win another CL for 9yrs
Pep won the treble in 2009, he couldn't win in 2010
Inter won in 2010, they couldn't win in 2011
Barca won the treble in 2015, they couldn't win the CL the following season, they haven't won another CL since then
Bayern again won the treble in 2020, they couldn't win it in 2021

Since 1995, Only Madrid have successfully defended the CL. Some of the above examples were coaches managing the same team who won 12months earlier and failed to defend it and win it again for years. They didn't even have to take over a new team or implement their new ideas
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I'm not saying he should've won it the following season but he should've won it in the three years he managed Bayern or at least make a final. When he took that job everyone thought he was going to dominate Europe again. He underperformed in the CL.
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
We have the smallest squad in the league and have used the least amount of players this season. So that's just false isn't it?
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I see this said a lot but you have 25 players in your squad like everyone else, so how is it smaller?
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
We have the smallest squad in the league and have used the least amount of players this season. So that's just false isn't it?
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C’mon let’s not be so silly now.

No team has the “quality” in depth that City do. It’s pointless having quantity when they aren’t good enough.

If we say city’s starting lineup last night is their first choice, your 2nd string team has the following options

Ortega

Lewis
Ake
Laporte
Gomez

Phillips
Palmer

Mahrez
Alvarez
Foden

A front 3 that contains a World Cup winner, a multiple premier league winner and the best youngster in England. Most teams don’t even have that quality in their first eleven.
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
We have the smallest squad in the league and have used the least amount of players this season. So that's just false isn't it?
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Not in the slightest. You seem very proud of those cherries picked for your argument but they don't mean a pile of dog s***. You have two players at almost every position, and other than maybe one or two players, injuries and fatigue are meaningless because you can essentially rotate for the sake of it with very little drop off. You were hit pretty hard with injuries at center back and ended up with Akanji and Ake as starters. About what a third of your backup players cost north of 50 million? Gtfoh
 
Tom Van Persie said:
I'm not saying he should've won it the following season but he should've won it in the three years he managed Bayern or at least make a final. When he took that job everyone thought he was going to dominate Europe again. He underperformed in the CL.
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How many of those teams won a CL or even made a final 3 to 5 seasons after winning the treble?

The CL is an extremely hard competition to win which is why legendary coaches like Ferguson Hitzfeld Capello Pep Mourinho never won it more than twice
 
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