Im sorry if I sound rude but this is an utter disaster of a post.
Man City 2020/21 - General discussion
- Thread starter Suedesi
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The following three posts just prove how people will make things up in an attempt to change the point at hand in an attempt to make claim their agenda is correct. Deary me. 
Delph, Sagna, Fernando, Clichy, Otamendi, Delph and a kid Ihenancho are added to 'some squad'? Seriously?
Any person who can't see the job he did has no clue about football, pretty simple.
Wait so you're on about comparing squads but then you can't mention players who featured for Man United that season and who the opposition comparison's are? Okay then...
It's not a 100% accurate method when comparing squads who have players stacked in certain positions, it's really not hard to grasp, well obviously it is for people like yourself...
Januzaji started the season at United and returned in January!
Valencia had made many appearances at RB, he played over 20 times there in the 14-15 season. So don't turn around and lie like he had not played there much! I've never been a fan of Sagna and couldn't care less if he was an apparent 'specialist' he was long past it and hardly featured the season before for City. Valencia had a better season in 14/15 and then continued that form on whilst Sagna struggled massively.
Will give you the Young one as I thought Young had played full back the season prior, however it's nit picking as explained above as it's trying to compare many players when positions are not similar. It should have been Shaw vs Kolarov. But if you wanna swap and compare Blind to Clichy and Shaw with Kolarov then United wins both..
The point stands, it's a complete myth that City had this amazing squad and great depth. It's VERY debatable to suggest United's squad was slightly stronger if not on the same level. United fans just refuse to accept this and try to take away the rebuilding job Guardiola had.
Why are you adding players that Guardiola signed? You can't just add players signed the season after when discussing the squad he took over. Laughable!
Delph, Sagna, Fernando, Clichy, Otamendi, Delph and a kid Ihenancho are added to 'some squad'? Seriously?
You know a poster has no valid reply when they resort to such a reply. Nobody said there was no talented players there, but to claim it was one of the best in Europe is absurd and you're just one of the Pep haters attempting to take away the credit he 100% deserves for what he did in that first season at Barcelona.
Any person who can't see the job he did has no clue about football, pretty simple.
Before I start that best squad that finished third that you are attempting to hype also only finished 3 points above 5th placed Arsenal with one of the greatest managers in the world. So maybe not quite the great squad you and others are trying to suggest eh?
- When was Young ever a better full back than Kolarov? Young wasn't even a full back at the time, he played in midfield.
- Valencia had made about a two appearances as a right back. Sagna and Clichy were specialist full backs and very good ones at their best but Young and Valencia who'd barely ever played full back at the time were better? Gimme a break. Only under Mourinho did the pair of them finalise those positions as full backs. Under LVG our fb's were Darmian and Blind/Rojo for the most part or other.
- The inclusion of those youth players
- Januzaj wasn't even at the club why is he even there?
- Well done on the player comparison gymnastics to make city's midfield appear only slightly better than United's, bravo, takes some serious skill.
- And can you offer an explanation as to how Nasri, Silva and Januzaj ended up in the MF but Lingard and Navas as forwards?
Wait so you're on about comparing squads but then you can't mention players who featured for Man United that season and who the opposition comparison's are? Okay then...
It's not a 100% accurate method when comparing squads who have players stacked in certain positions, it's really not hard to grasp, well obviously it is for people like yourself...
Januzaji started the season at United and returned in January!
Valencia had made many appearances at RB, he played over 20 times there in the 14-15 season. So don't turn around and lie like he had not played there much! I've never been a fan of Sagna and couldn't care less if he was an apparent 'specialist' he was long past it and hardly featured the season before for City. Valencia had a better season in 14/15 and then continued that form on whilst Sagna struggled massively.
Will give you the Young one as I thought Young had played full back the season prior, however it's nit picking as explained above as it's trying to compare many players when positions are not similar. It should have been Shaw vs Kolarov. But if you wanna swap and compare Blind to Clichy and Shaw with Kolarov then United wins both..
The point stands, it's a complete myth that City had this amazing squad and great depth. It's VERY debatable to suggest United's squad was slightly stronger if not on the same level. United fans just refuse to accept this and try to take away the rebuilding job Guardiola had.
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The following three posts just prove how people will make things up in an attempt to change the point at hand in an attempt to make claim their agenda is correct. Deary me.
Why are you adding players that Guardiola signed? You can't just add players signed the season after when discussing the squad he took over. Laughable!
Delph, Sagna, Fernando, Clichy, Otamendi, Delph and a kid Ihenancho are added to 'some squad'? Seriously?
Sorry i'm a little confused - Pep signed these players in his first season no? E.g before the season started. Hence this was his first squad, what difference does it make that it wasn't the squad the moment he signed the contract if it was still the same squad he started the season with?
Hmm. Not sure if I buy your last point. City had the best squad and best squad depth in PL before Pep arrived.
That was the original point which is being debated, so it's based on the squad from 15-16 not the signings from season 16-17.
To be honest it's probably a pointless debate anyway, at the end of the day nobody can honesty say City were not an ageing and much weaker squad before he took over and that a massive rebuilding job was required. As evident by the fact only 3 players remain - Aguero, Sterling and KDB and the former is leaving this summer. United as well considering about 8 are still technically on the books.
And on that I'm out, good luck in Rome!
The following three posts just prove how people will make things up in an attempt to change the point at hand in an attempt to make claim their agenda is correct. Deary me.
Why are you adding players that Guardiola signed? You can't just add players signed the season after when discussing the squad he took over. Laughable!
Delph, Sagna, Fernando, Clichy, Otamendi, Delph and a kid Ihenancho are added to 'some squad'? Seriously?
You know a poster has no valid reply when they resort to such a reply. Nobody said there was no talented players there, but to claim it was one of the best in Europe is absurd and you're just one of the Pep haters attempting to take away the credit he 100% deserves for what he did in that first season at Barcelona.
Any person who can't see the job he did has no clue about football, pretty simple.
Before I start that best squad that finished third that you are attempting to hype also only finished 3 points above 5th placed Arsenal with one of the greatest managers in the world. So maybe not quite the great squad you and others are trying to suggest eh?
Wait so you're on about comparing squads but then you can't mention players who featured for Man United that season and who the opposition comparison's are? Okay then...
It's not a 100% accurate method when comparing squads who have players stacked in certain positions, it's really not hard to grasp, well obviously it is for people like yourself...
Januzaji started the season at United and returned in January!
Valencia had made many appearances at RB, he played over 20 times there in the 14-15 season. So don't turn around and lie like he had not played there much! I've never been a fan of Sagna and couldn't care less if he was an apparent 'specialist' he was long past it and hardly featured the season before for City. Valencia had a better season in 14/15 and then continued that form on whilst Sagna struggled massively.
Will give you the Young one as I thought Young had played full back the season prior, however it's nit picking as explained above as it's trying to compare many players when positions are not similar. It should have been Shaw vs Kolarov. But if you wanna swap and compare Blind to Clichy and Shaw with Kolarov then United wins both..
The point stands, it's a complete myth that City had this amazing squad and great depth. It's VERY debatable to suggest United's squad was slightly stronger if not on the same level. United fans just refuse to accept this and try to take away the rebuilding job Guardiola had.
You would think he took them from the brink of relegation to the top of the game the way you are going on.
They were one of the best sides in Europe and floundered for a season under Rijkaard after Ten Cate left. Pep let a few old lads go and bought in Pique, Alves, Busquets in that first season. Hardly a total rebuild.
Guardiola showed in City and especially Bayern that he can only work with 20 top players. In laboratory conditions. Which neither manager had ever.
In Bayern he was trashed all 3 seasons in Europe against equal sides.
In City he took best team in PL in which was invested billion euros and he needed one billion euros more to get in CL finals. He had 500mil euros worth players on the bench vs Psg ffs.
Although i admit that he is best cheque book manager in history. If you have money, he is guy for you. But give him Spurs, Arsenal or Liverpool....he would not get top 4.
Biggest overrated manager in history of football.
They are gonna peak this season, dwarfing 2018 and 2019, but the decline starts now, after May, that is.
That would be Mourinho, by a country mile.
They were level with us in points and their squad was significantly older. In the threads before the season, plenty were saying that he was going to be "found out" in the English game, and that he had his work cut out for him given that he was finally taking over a pedestrian team.
He then proceeded to dominate English football in a way nobody since Ferguson has done, and a few no so clever Pep haters assume their revisionist history isn't going to get called out, for some reason.
Two seasons. They were poor for 2 seasons. Pep revolutionised that team. The football was night and day. Such was the dominance that almost every team now is copying things he did back then. Even English football has changed because of his team in Barca.
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I didn’t even say city had an amazing squad. Didn’t “hype” it either.The following three posts just prove how people will make things up in an attempt to change the point at hand in an attempt to make claim their agenda is correct. Deary me.
Why are you adding players that Guardiola signed? You can't just add players signed the season after when discussing the squad he took over. Laughable!
Delph, Sagna, Fernando, Clichy, Otamendi, Delph and a kid Ihenancho are added to 'some squad'? Seriously?
You know a poster has no valid reply when they resort to such a reply. Nobody said there was no talented players there, but to claim it was one of the best in Europe is absurd and you're just one of the Pep haters attempting to take away the credit he 100% deserves for what he did in that first season at Barcelona.
Any person who can't see the job he did has no clue about football, pretty simple.
Before I start that best squad that finished third that you are attempting to hype also only finished 3 points above 5th placed Arsenal with one of the greatest managers in the world. So maybe not quite the great squad you and others are trying to suggest eh?
Wait so you're on about comparing squads but then you can't mention players who featured for Man United that season and who the opposition comparison's are? Okay then...
It's not a 100% accurate method when comparing squads who have players stacked in certain positions, it's really not hard to grasp, well obviously it is for people like yourself...
Januzaji started the season at United and returned in January!
Valencia had made many appearances at RB, he played over 20 times there in the 14-15 season. So don't turn around and lie like he had not played there much! I've never been a fan of Sagna and couldn't care less if he was an apparent 'specialist' he was long past it and hardly featured the season before for City. Valencia had a better season in 14/15 and then continued that form on whilst Sagna struggled massively.
Will give you the Young one as I thought Young had played full back the season prior, however it's nit picking as explained above as it's trying to compare many players when positions are not similar. It should have been Shaw vs Kolarov. But if you wanna swap and compare Blind to Clichy and Shaw with Kolarov then United wins both..
The point stands, it's a complete myth that City had this amazing squad and great depth. It's VERY debatable to suggest United's squad was slightly stronger if not on the same level. United fans just refuse to accept this and try to take away the rebuilding job Guardiola had.
Literally just said they did have one of the best two squads in the league. It’s a fact. Backed up by them having the highest average league position over the previous three year period. 1st, 2nd and 4th.
Saying they didn’t is a lie. You can do all the gymnastics you want, the city side in 2016 was better than the United one. That city team had an either peak or peaking Kompany, Fernandinho, de Bruyne, Silva and Aguero in it. Only DeGea was anything at his peak around that period from our team. You blabber on about that city team ageing. Carrick, Rooney, Schweinsteiger, Valencia were hardly spring chickens.
Not surprised by your stance anyway. If you got any further up the arsehole of Guardiola you’d be spitting blue moons out his mouth.
They always move the goal post. Mancini and Pellegrini never dominated like Pep. Before pep came most people in the CAf said he would never dominate like Spain and Germany and he turned the prem into the Bundesliga.
Floundered? They were 18 points behind the league winners, double digit points behind Villarreal, and trophy less. He immediately sold their best player and Deco, and created arguably the most dominant team in football history.
Guardiola with Jose's squad would win exactly zero trophies. Zero. Imagine Pep in Porto. Or Chelsea. Where actually he would need to make compromise over some players.
Because he had unlimited funds ffs.
Win a league without having the best squad
I wish I could evolve tactically. It sounds nice.
You already described what Pep would be like at a lesser club. Bielsa.
I agree. Why is nobody calling Bielsa the greatest coach of all time?
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Conjecture. I would say that any top 20 manager would have done a better job that Mourinho did in 2016 with Chelsea. Or 2013 with Madrid. Or 2019 with United.
He doesn't have to compromise as much as Mourinho because he left him in dust as far their legacies are concerned and gets to pick the top jobs while the latter begs for a chance to manage mediocre teams.
That would be Mourinho, Who spent triple what his next nearest competitor did in 2005 and 2006, and still couldn't dominate football the way Guardiola did.
On the other hand, Pep mopped the floor with Mourinho after Mourinho got to break the world transfer record and had the squad with the highest wage bill in football history at the time.
One inherited best squad in league. Other inherited and played with Young, Jones, Smalling etc...
In first season Jose showed how he can adapt and won 2 trophies, Pep won nothing. Because he can't work with "dross" players like Dzeko, Sagna, Mangala, etc...he needs best of the best.
And why do you try to make comparism with Jose? We are talking about Pep. Biggest fraud in history of football. You have Jose thread for talking about Jose
His Barcelona team played Bayern in 2009 and all our directors said. I want a team playing like that in Munich. Every top team wants to win and win in dominant style like a Pep side
Ferguson played him in 2 finals and admitted it was They were the most unplayable side he has ever faced in his career
Many like that but what do they know, If only they watched Moyes and Big Sam more
The best squad in the league definitely wasn't the aging squad that finished level with United.
I could easily say Pep inherited Koralov and Clichy while Mourinho was given Pogba and Ibrahimovic. And yet Pep proceeded to beat him to a bloody pulp.
If the man beating Mourinho like a drum is a fraud, I don't know what that makes Mourinho.
There are only 3 trophies that matter in English football. The UCL, Premier league, and FA cup.
One has won a boatload of them in the past 5 years. The other has won exactly.....zero.
Guardiola picked jobs where most of even decent coaches would won (and did) stuff. Bayern? Niko Kovac won double there. Then as.manager won triple.
In City? Ha ha, we must talk about that "challenge"?
Guardiola gets to pick the jobs because he's the best manager in the planet. Mourinho doesn't get to pick them because the Bayerns don't rate him.
Wonder why clubs like Bayern dont call Mourinho? He probably loved the challenge in Roma and Spurs more
It's amazing really. I remember people were dismissing them and United were favourites for that 2009 final. Don't let anyone tell you different. The media here were going on about a septuple ffs. Then now people look back and say Pep inherited the best team ever. Laughable.
And they didn't? So we knew he was going to get backed, whey did people on mass say his football wouldn't work here? You had a lot of people saying it here and the media said it as well. Unlimited funds and he had Delph, Zinchenko playing as LBs in a 100 point season. Give Pep our squad and we would walk the league.
Best cheque book manager on planet? Yes. Give him unlimited funds and he will use them the best. He will build well oiled maschine. But only there.
Would he be a champion with Pool like Klopp did? No.
With Leicester like Ranieri? Hell no.
With Inter and Chelsea like Conte? No chance
Don't you get it ffs? He had unlimited funds! The reason Delph was playing is because Delph and Zinchinko are the two best left backs in world football. Stacked in every position ffs.
For someone with unlimited funds he doesn't buy many big or expensive players.
I don't believe he spent that much Barcelona, they lost by 18 points the season before.
A checkbook manager would be Mourinho. And he apparently isn't a good one since he broke the world transfer record, was handed the team with the highest wagebill in football history and still failed miserably.
Now, to your question. The answer could probably be yes to all, but we'll never find out because the best maneger on the planet gets to pick his jobs.
Really? I mean...really??
Aye, he took them from third to first in La Liga and took them from the semi finals of the CL to the final and won it. One hell of a revolution.
But really. It wasn't just him though was it? The whole generation of Spanish players at that time played the same style, under a different coach for the national team. Let's not pretend he totally revolutionised football all by himself.
Yes really, we have spent more on individuals than he has and which big named players did he buy?
Why did they come 3rd the season before him.
Because Real and Villareal finished above them.
That never happened.
Also, everyone could have forseen what he did with Barcelona.
Also, the moon landings were fake, propaganda by the Americans.
Wow, it is like listening to Pep. "But but i didn't bought a player for 100 mil like others"
So players bought for 50,60 mil euros are just...small buy? Meh, just in case. He bought Ake for 30mil (i think) for 4th option in defence. But hey, it is small buy i guess.
His bench is 500 mil worth! We are thinking of selling Vdb because he is 40 mil player who is sitting on the bench.
Who is Man Utd's 4th option in defence and his cost price when he was bought so we can compare to Ake 30M in 2020
City spent 2 billion euros since 2008. 2 billion. Pep in 5 years spent billion. One billion on squad which had some of best players in league. He inherited Aguero, Silva, Kdb, Kompany, Fernandinho, Sterling.
I am ending this now. No point anymore
Ranieri got booted the following (for emphasis, the following season not the next two seasons). Conte got the sack the following season at Chelsea, Klopp has had the same pattern of decline of his teams’ performance after a very stellar two years. In rating a manager what you are able to do after a successful spell matters as much as what you did in that spell. There is a reason why Adebayor is no longer reckoned as a force in football as a player and Benitez as a manager despite that they achieved great things.
In judging managers, ask if they are still relevant at the top table today because some have a good history but the beautiful game has evolved beyond them.
The argument that Pep has always been at big clubs is testament to his success. Conte would still be at Chelsea or a higher club if things worked his way. Mou would still be at Real Madrid not Roma if things didn’t go tits up. Ask yourself, is Pep the first and last to manage at Bayern or Barca or City or any wealthy club at all? No but there is a reason why he’s always sought out by the top clubs.