Maguire | he stays!

RedRonaldo said:
We spend 80m on him, plus around 40m salary for 4 years (add another 5m for the fee we need to pay him off for his contract worth). That's total 125m investment. And we will receive 30m from West Ham. So that's around 95m net spent on Maguire.

He has 2 decent seasons with us, and 2 very poor seasons.

What do you lot think of that? Tragic decision to bring him in? or just one of those big money deal not coming off as expected?
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Pretty tragic to be honest. I would say his first season was good, second season was decent but only just: we did concede a fair few goals that season and his performance in the 6-1 demolition by Spurs was pretty appalling. The other two seasons were dreadful.

I'm pretty sure we'll hear his side of the story in a few months.
 
2 man midfield said:
They’ve got a bargain when you consider what 30m actually gets you in this day and age. Tarkowski and Michael Keane went for the same money, league 1 kids are going for 20…

His confidence is through the floor, but if they build that up again they’ve got a brilliant defender for a steal.
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Yup, a sensible take. He’ll easily be one of their most important players if he can regain his confidence and get back to how he was at his best here and before then.
 
December_16 said:
Of course it’s a big money deal not coming off. We were desperate for a strong CB at that stage and got rinsed by Leicester. But football is not played on a spreadsheet, so let’s leave the “here’s how much money we lost on a player” to the accountants.
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Well I think its a fair timing and topic to discuss, since he is about to leave and he is/was? the most expensive defender in the game.
 
RedRonaldo said:
We spend 80m on him, plus around 40m salary for 4 years (add another 5m for the fee we need to pay him off for his contract worth). That's total 125m investment. And we will receive 30m from West Ham. So that's around 95m net spent on Maguire.

He has 2 decent seasons with us, and 2 very poor seasons.

What do you lot think of that? Tragic decision to bring him in? or just one of those big money deal not coming off as expected?
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£ spent per contribution on the pitch we've had far bigger wastes of resources in recent years.
For example, the band of players who are never fit but on huge contracts, the Ighalos/Falcao/Cavani's hardly played but cost a fortune under the radar, Ronaldo, Van De Beek, Sancho, Sanchez!.
 
RedRonaldo said:
We spend 80m on him, plus around 40m salary for 4 years (add another 5m for the fee we need to pay him off for his contract worth). That's total 125m investment. And we will receive 30m from West Ham. So that's around 95m net spent on Maguire.

He has 2 decent seasons with us, and 2 very poor seasons.

What do you lot think of that? Tragic decision to bring him in? or just one of those big money deal not coming off as expected?
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Well you can't really put it in a number under the Maguire column but he did provide a service, a use or a product as a player. I'd hazard not up to 95m£ worth.

It's the stupid 80m fee, really. The same year Juventus spent 85m€ on De Ligt and Bayern 80 on Hernandez, guess there was something in the water.
Hummels and Saliba were transferred at 30m€ that summer. I think around that mark Maguire would just have been a normal disappointment, not a meme.
 
“Being captain of Manchester United is the highlight of my career” goodbye post Incoming. 30m is far too much for this guy, take it and run.
 
RedRonaldo said:
We spend 80m on him, plus around 40m salary for 4 years (add another 5m for the fee we need to pay him off for his contract worth). That's total 125m investment. And we will receive 30m from West Ham. So that's around 95m net spent on Maguire.

He has 2 decent seasons with us, and 2 very poor seasons.

What do you lot think of that? Tragic decision to bring him in? or just one of those big money deal not coming off as expected?
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I couldn’t believe we paid 80m for him it was a ludicrous fee, he wasn’t even best CB at Leicester the season we bought him. Only compounded further by silly wages and making him Captain.

Just a shocking decision, other than his fitness record he wasn’t an upgrade on what we had, and definitely not a world record fee upgrade. He tried but wa always doomed to fail and I’m sure he will be a lot happier at West Ham.
 
MadMike said:
It's perhaps a matter for another thread, but how do we judge a signing? It's all a bit subjective.

Pogba was the most expensive signing in the history of this league when we signed him. And he still is the most expensive signing this club has ever made even after 7 years (Antony was £85m and Pogba £89m) without even accounting for inflation. And then he left at his supposed peak at 29 for nothing. He can't be judged by the same standard as Dan James for example, who was bought for pittance and sold for profit, can he?

Was Pogba a bad footballer? No. Did he get even remotely close to achieving what we hoped for given the cost and his ability? Also No. That's a pretty bad signing.
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Tbh, I don't think he's half as culpable in his failure as people make out. After splashing out on him, the club should have built the team and tactics around his talents. Probably the best post-Fergie player we've had. Instead he was shifted around and used like some sort of McTominay utility piece and he got completely exposed. Lot of the criticism he received was old man shakes fist at clouds stuff and another portion was just very un-subtle racism. The injuries completely fecked him towards the end but the club totally blew it with him.
 
saik said:
Didn't that ExWHUEmployee guy say that the total fee was £37m? I think that additional 7m fee is for the severance pay of Maguire and we would get that 30m fee. I think that is why we had reports of 30m being rejected yesterday and the same fee got accepted today.
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No, that was Football Insider.
 
FriedClams said:
“Being captain of Manchester United is the highlight of my career” goodbye post Incoming. 30m is far too much for this guy, take it and run.
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You say that but he'll do very well in the style they play and will probably be £30m very well spent i'ld imagine.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
Tbh, I don't think he's half as culpable in his failure as people make out. After splashing out on him, the club should have built the team and tactics around his talents. Probably the best post-Fergie player we've had. Instead he was shifted around and used like some sort of McTominay utility piece and he got completely exposed. Lot of the criticism he received was old man shakes fist at clouds stuff and another portion was just very un-subtle racism. The injuries completely fecked him towards the end but the club totally blew it with him.
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I completely agree with this.
 
Think he’ll do a job at West Ham. You can tell what moyes is planning. Ward prowse delivery’s to Maguire.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
So if he gets 90K at West Ham and we promised him 190k, that is a 100k difference for 2 years left in his contract. Even if we pay him for a year, that's lot of money to take out of the 30M we are getting.
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Ah they may reach a deal.
 
It's sad about Maguire, because he has previously shown in several seasons that he can be a really good defender. I think he would have had a chance to get back to this level at United if he had experienced more support. Many fans have been disgusted with him. Fans have been booing him, making fun of him, making mocking videos of him. "Experts" on TV have been after him every single time he made the slightest mistake. It has been a vicious treatment he has received in my eyes and it has made it harder for him to find his old form.

I hope that he gets more peace at West Ham, where he becomes an important player and I hope he returns to his old form and level.
 
Bojan Djordjic said:
Tbh, I don't think he's half as culpable in his failure as people make out. After splashing out on him, the club should have built the team and tactics around his talents. Probably the best post-Fergie player we've had. Instead he was shifted around and used like some sort of McTominay utility piece and he got completely exposed. Lot of the criticism he received was old man shakes fist at clouds stuff and another portion was just very un-subtle racism. The injuries completely fecked him towards the end but the club totally blew it with him.
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Great idea. Let's sack ETH and hire Ole back.
 
Red in STL said:
On what planet is Maguire a worse signing than Pogba?

Maguire cost 80m and it looks like we will recoup between a third and half of that fee

Pogba cost 89M and we got nothing for him, I'm pretty sure he earned a lot more than Maguire did as well
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In terms of his performances for us Pogba was significantly better than Maguire. Personally that's the main thing I look at to judge the success of a signing.
 
OrcaFat said:
He did show plenty of leadership in those first couple of years when his form was good and we played in a style that suited him. None of that excuses his weakness or his too-frequent errors.

He is a very polarising character. Some cannot see any good. Some turn a blind eye to some of the bad. It turns into a worthless debate.

I realise he is not good enough but I don’t like the plethora of two-faced BS comments along the lines of “wish him all the best but he’s the shittest player ever born”. It’s tiresome.
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I certainly didn’t call him the shittest player ever born, I said he was never going to prove worth his ridiculous fee which he never did.

@Revan broke down his United career rather aptly earlier on. Was he as bad in the beginning as he consistently become in the last 2 seasons? No but there wasn’t this period of Maguire dominance in his earlier years.

I don’t consider myself one of the two-faced because I never went out of my way to excuse his nonsense at any point. His sales & a few others should close a chapter we’ve endured not enjoyed.
Red in STL said:
On what planet is Maguire a worse signing than Pogba?

Maguire cost 80m and it looks like we will recoup between a third and half of that fee

Pogba cost 89M and we got nothing for him, I'm pretty sure he earned a lot more than Maguire did as well
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The same planet in which he did more in his first season in terms of actual success you can measure in a trophy room.

The fact the club are cutting bait on Maguire before he can leave on a free isn’t proof of anything for Maguire other than we’ve got our act together as a club sooner on this mistake. Had we been more competent we’d have sold Pogba to Madrid when they were sniffing a few years in.
Jippy said:
Yeah I think the Pogba comparison is a bad one, given he at least had world class game-changing moments, which is harder as a defender, admittedly.

I guess recouping none of the huge fee for Pogba, particularly after how he left the first time, meant that transfer was a cluster in different ways.
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Fair points, I just don’t see any positives in this Maguire saga. It was an immediate cluster feck that resulted in years of debates over whose fault a goal was every other week.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
So if he gets 90K at West Ham and we promised him 190k, that is a 100k difference for 2 years left in his contract. Even if we pay him for a year, that's lot of money to take out of the 30M we are getting.
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That's why the earlier tweet mentioned that the severance package needs to be settled before Maguire joins West Ham. I doubt it will be the full amount (using your example, it's over 10M for that 2 years).

This tweet:
Berbaclass said:
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FriedClams said:
“Being captain of Manchester United is the highlight of my career” goodbye post Incoming. 30m is far too much for this guy, take it and run.
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If I had the skills I would hack his Twiiter and post "the fans were mean and didn't appreciate what a great player I am. I'm glad to be moving to the real United in West Ham under a proper manager".

It would be glorious.
 
Maguire wasn't part of Leicester’s premier league winning squad. Yet we paid through the nose for him.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
So if he gets 90K at West Ham and we promised him 190k, that is a 100k difference for 2 years left in his contract. Even if we pay him for a year, that's lot of money to take out of the 30M we are getting.
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I don’t think we should be contributing anything towards his wages. He only had two years left here and will get a 5-year deal from West Ham, so instead of making £20m for the next two seasons he might be guaranteeing up to £35m to £40m throughout 5 years. That is a fair deal.
 
Sarni said:
I don’t think we should be contributing anything towards his wages. He only had two years left here and will get a 5-year deal from West Ham, so instead of making £20m for the next two seasons he might be guaranteeing up to £35m to £40m throughout 5 years. That is a fair deal.
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If that's the only way to get rid of him, then I'm all for it.

Better to be paying this 'severance' than keeping him on the books with those wages.
 
Would never boo him or anything like that but he was never Manchester United standard. Almost every pass out to the fullbacks was hit behind them, which puts the opposition on the front foot all the time. And he always thought he was better on the ball than he actually was, which led to a handful of times when he was dispossessed by a forward closing him down and making him look stupid. He didn't inspire confidence in the fans or his team mates. Glad we got some money for him because I half expected us to do what we normally do and offer the players who aren't playing a new contract extension.
 
To paraphrase Gary Cohen when he calls home runs for the New York Mets: HE'S OUTTA HERE!!!

Hoof the ball said:
There's this idea that once he's left us he'll be going back the being a good defender again at West Ham.

It's fine if you believe that the sum total of his mistakes over the years is explainable by way of pressure, but really it's just a naive point.

He made similar mistakes at Leicester; the only difference is that United fans didn't watch Leicester with any regularity, but I can assure you, the same error laden traits were there even before he joined United.

This isn't some thing that developed in line with his move to United, or is factored on by the presence of pressure. It's just who he is.

So no, I don't buy that moving to West Ham will suddenly mitigate his penchant for egregious mistakes by way of reduced pressure. He'll be largely the same. It's an issue of decision making and of general mobility.
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This is a very good summary. No one cared about Leicester and that was why he could get off the hook for this long. But with the level of scrutiny Maguire will face in London after everything that we have known from his time at United, you can be sure that he will get heavy criticism if he repeats the same mistakes at West Ham. The fanbase over there is definitely not a forgiving one.

People pinning Maguire's woes on pressure... seriously, that's a lousy excuse. Pressure always exists in big markets, pressure is what separates boys from men, pressure is what tells people if a player is the real deal or not. Maguire just ain't that good to be considered elite; it is what it is.
 
Sarni said:
I don’t think we should be contributing anything towards his wages. He only had two years left here and will get a 5-year deal from West Ham, so instead of making £20m for the next two seasons he might be guaranteeing up to £35m to £40m throughout 5 years. That is a fair deal.
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I think it's a fair point to make but realistically if you shift the onus on West Ham to put forward more convincing personal terms matching his pay here, that's money not put in the transfer fee.

If all the muppet guessing about his remaining amortization value is correct then it is more interesting for United to get an higher value upfront nominally even if in reality it includes kickbacks.

Ultimately you can argue all manners of demonstrations of future expected earnings but you need the player to agree to the transfer in the present. I think most would agree we'd rather move him this window if possible. West Ham made a fair offer and I doubt we're getting a better deal or returns for him, severance package or not.
 
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Strelok said:
Great idea. Let's sack ETH and hire Ole back.
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He was talking about Pogba who wasn’t an Ole signing. Same old trash blaming everyone and everything but Pogba for his failings.
 
Crimson King said:
He was so bad at attacking headers for us though. Won them, but rarely scored them.
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That’s true but the World Cup for England he got on the end of them all very well. Which is part of the reason we signed him due to them performances.
 
Ibrahimorich said:
Nowhere near the worst. He had 2 good seasons and 2 poor ones. 50% hit rate. Sanchez was absolutely terrible in practically every game. Factor in his 400k pw wages (double Maguires?) and he was far worse. Di Maria was pathetic. Pogba? Lost the full £89m on that one and he didn't exactly cover himself in glory.
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He didn't have 2 good seasons. That is just what you and others are convincing yourselves. He has been a concern throughout all his time here.

Pogba at least has the Europe League final goal under his name.

We recouped most of Di Maria's fee.

Maguire's transfer has been a disaster.
 
Plastic Evra said:
I think it's a fair point to make but realistically if you shift the onus on West Ham to put forward more convincing personal terms matching his pay here, that's money not put in the transfer fee.

If all the muppet guessing about his remaining amortization value is correct then it is more interesting for United to get an higher value upfront nominally even if in reality it includes kickbacks.

Ultimately you can argue all manners of demonstrations of future expected earnings but you need the player to agree to the transfer in the present. I think most would agree we'd rather move him this window if possible. West Ham made a fair offer and I doubt we're getting a better deal or returns for him, severance package or not.
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I’d like to think Maguire also still has some remaining ambition as a player and would rather play every week for a decent PL team than be 4th or 5th choice here. End of the day the £2m a year won’t make monumental difference.
 
Getting back almost half of what we paid for is a pretty decent coup all things considered.

I never could fully bring myself to dislike him, he seemed like a decent lad who just wasn't good enough really, wish him well.
 
Sarni said:
I don’t think we should be contributing anything towards his wages. He only had two years left here and will get a 5-year deal from West Ham, so instead of making £20m for the next two seasons he might be guaranteeing up to £35m to £40m throughout 5 years. That is a fair deal.
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If United open a go fund me campaign I’d be one of the first to contribute.. don’t care about that tbh just to cross the line..
 
Hoof the ball said:
There's this idea that once he's left us he'll be going back the being a good defender again at West Ham.

It's fine if you believe that the sum total of his mistakes over the years is explainable by way of pressure, but really it's just a naive point.

He made similar mistakes at Leicester; the only difference is that United fans didn't watch Leicester with any regularity, but I can assure you, the same error laden traits were there even before he joined United.

This isn't some thing that developed in line with his move to United, or is factored on by the presence of pressure. It's just who he is.

So no, I don't buy that moving to West Ham will suddenly mitigate his penchant for egregious mistakes by way of reduced pressure. He'll be largely the same. It's an issue of decision making and of general mobility.
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I agree 100%
 
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