LVG's Legacy/Foundations

[TheSweeper]

Lingard and Rashford are both United academy products; Rashford would have been noticed either way, he was that good at an young level; Lingard went to 3-4 teams on loan and is still a squad player at best. Depay is gone, Schneiderlin is gone, BFS is injury-plagued; Falcao, Di Maria Flopped. Herrera, Blind, Rojo, Darmian were never used in their correct positions consistently. Only plus - Martial, even he would have been on the list of a lot of major clubs so not exactly a find.

What are you harping on about?

Rojo is doing fine. Blind is doing fine and can play multiple positions. Lingard greatly improved under LVG. Rashford was a winger that LVG played as a striker even though there were other strikers in the first team and reserves available. He bought Romero - shoes just yesterday people were harping about being the best 2nd GK in the world. He stuck Valencia as a RB now looking like the best RB in the world. He gave debuts to TFM. He made smalling a predominantly better player for whatever reason. Then you have Martial & Herrera.

However the transfers don't bother me - you look at LVG's career he has always has abysmal transfers & that because he is negligent & believes in his own hype too much.

His signings have always been poor - but there is more to football that the transfer window. Is it because of Jose we have 58% possession then?

 

[sunama]

Hehehe. This thread refuses to die (but that's okay, I enjoy some light hearted fun).
Every year, even after Jose has gone, LVG's disciples will keep bringing up the "legacy" and "foundations" rhetoric. Any trophy won in the next 10 or so years will, in some way, be partially attributed to LVG.

 

[TheSweeper]

Hehehe. This thread refuses to die (but that's okay, I enjoy some light hearted fun).
Every year, even after Jose has gone, LVG's disciples will keep bringing up the "legacy" and "foundations" rhetoric. Any trophy won in the next 10 or so years will, in some way, be partially attributed to LVG.

Yep. Your point is?

Can I ask you - do you think rijkaard era was important to pep? Or was that completely useless and Pep would have done his thing with or without the whole rijkaard era with Eto'o & Ronaldinho etc?

Hehe let's have some fun

 

[fellaini's barber]

Don't bite

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

We keep the ball better because we respect possession better, we switch formations with ease, and Rashord, Lingard and Fosu Mensah were promoted. I will forever be greatful for those things and the fa cup win. Regardless of being glad he left.

 

[Successful]

Half expected you to have locked this thread by now given your dislike to Louis van Gaal . In all seriousness, last week, this thread was bumped for the first time in three months, isn't that something mods/admin want to avoid with regards to bumping old threads?

The meaning of this thread would be pointless if you locked it in favour of a new one. The idea is to keep track of the development and that also includes the transformation fans will experience during the coming years. We're all on this amazing trip taking us some place special. No one should be ashamed to admit they were wrong. We all have different abilities and perceptions. Some people take a life time to find themselves.

The first year has gone by since the building was laid to rest. The mission of adding 4 classy players is completed by Jose. The rest is history coming.

 

[Giggs86]

His only legacy is lobotomizing Smalling and changing his name to Mike.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Getting Romero here for free is a positive.

 

[Woeisme]

Every year, even after Jose has gone, LVG's disciples will keep bringing up the "legacy" and "foundations" rhetoric. Any trophy won in the next 10 or so years will, in some way, be partially attributed to LVG.

Yep. But for some reason it doesn't apply to Moyes.
LVG's FA Cup win wasn't down to the foundations laid by Moyes or even Sir Alex, It was LVG.
It doesn't matter that we played unadulterated shit football. (That was part of the philosophy) We would have been better after another 3 years.
It doesn't matter that he played sub par youth players that were never in anyway good enough to grace the OT turf, because Rahford came good. (they'll throw the TFM claim at you as well despite only starting 2 league games for us)
It doesn't matter that he turned to Nick Powell to rescue a vital European game. The same Nick Powell he sent on loan 4 days later.

Ashley Young up front anyone? In the same game that Martial was playing wide?

You get the Barcelona/Bayern shit regurgitated. The idea that Xavi would never have made it were it not for LBG's love of a good young fella! The myth he taught our team of internationals how to pass a ball to their teammate. And it goes on and on. And you can get embroiled in a debate that you can never win with these apologists, because you keep getting hit with tangents and hypothetical's. But you can't hide from the basic truth. That truth was witnessed by all. Under LVG we played the most insipid, boring, shit football that has ever been witnessed at Old Trafford. Eye gouging dross that alienated the vast majority of the fan base. Drivel, that reduced us to begging a UTD side to 'attack,attack attack' at Old Trafford. Ironic cheers for a first shot on target in the 80th minute.
I didn't imagine this, it happened.
I'm fairly sure its unique to LVG too (But I only go back to big Ron)

Foundations? Foundations indeed

 

[Devil81]

He left the foundations of a load of players to transfer out.

 

[TheSweeper]

Love the hate he and his fans get they look at us and see that we are all deluded.

However - we have told them that the future is set in stone while they come up with nothing and laugh at us.

It is all good - we are all supporters and arguably the people in the football community that know the least about football itself.

People comparing LVG to moyes have you even seen that great players talk about LVG's influence as well as his severe short comings?

No no, the guy has done nothing for the clubs he has managed yet his CV rolls from one big club to another!

Supporters are just two pair of eyes that see what is layed right in front of them.

 

[Woeisme]

Love the hate he and his fans get they look at us and see that we are all deluded.

No argument here. You've said it yourself

However - we have told them that the future is set in stone while they come up with nothing and laugh at us.

It doesn't surprise me that you believe this.

As for coming up with nothing? your claims have been rebutted to death, by many. You just continue with the same old rhetoric

 

[Kostur]

Moyes foundations are even better, 100% hit with Fellaini and Mata

 

[rollingstoned1]

He has become a meme but I liked him, he was a real character, had charisma and maybe just the interim manager we needed after a failure in replacing sir Alex. He may be remembered more fondly if the likes of Martial and Rashford turn into superstars and we reach the heights that we ought to for a club our size again.

 

[TheSweeper]

No argument here. You've said it yourself


It doesn't surprise me that you believe this.

As for coming up with nothing? your claims have been rebutted to death, by many. You just continue with the same old rhetoric

Also supported by many a player x I think I shall keep it at that.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Yep. But for some reason it doesn't apply to Moyes.
LVG's FA Cup win wasn't down to the foundations laid by Moyes or even Sir Alex, It was LVG.
It doesn't matter that we played unadulterated shit football. (That was part of the philosophy) We would have been better after another 3 years.
It doesn't matter that he played sub par youth players that were never in anyway good enough to grace the OT turf, because Rahford came good. (they'll throw the TFM claim at you as well despite only starting 2 league games for us)
It doesn't matter that he turned to Nick Powell to rescue a vital European game. The same Nick Powell he sent on loan 4 days later.

Ashley Young up front anyone? In the same game that Martial was playing wide?

You get the Barcelona/Bayern shit regurgitated. The idea that Xavi would never have made it were it not for LBG's love of a good young fella! The myth he taught our team of internationals how to pass a ball to their teammate. And it goes on and on. And you can get embroiled in a debate that you can never win with these apologists, because you keep getting hit with tangents and hypothetical's. But you can't hide from the basic truth. That truth was witnessed by all. Under LVG we played the most insipid, boring, shit football that has ever been witnessed at Old Trafford. Eye gouging dross that alienated the vast majority of the fan base. Drivel, that reduced us to begging a UTD side to 'attack,attack attack' at Old Trafford. Ironic cheers for a first shot on target in the 80th minute.
I didn't imagine this, it happened.
I'm fairly sure its unique to LVG too (But I only go back to big Ron)

Foundations? Foundations indeed

Nothing left to be said

 

[Attila]

Excuse me for rushing ahead with the outcome. A year has almost gone by now and I just want to continue keeping track of the development.

I've used a simple plus and minus system to help identify development. + means the player is contributing to the team and is better today than when we bought him. - is we expected more and the player is not ready to contribute at this level. -/+ is undecided.

Signings
Memphis Depay -
Regan Pool -/+
Matteo Darmian -
Ander Herrera +
Marcus Rojo +
Daley Blind +
Anthony Martial +
Luke Shaw -/+ (?)
Morgan Schneiderlin -
Sergio Romero +
Timothy Fosu-Mensah -/+

Signing outcome
Number of players: 11
Plus: 5
Minus: 3
Undecided: 3



Promotions:
Cameron Borthwick-Jackson -/+
Tyler Blackett -/+
Marcus Rashford +
Jesse Lingard +
Anderas Pereira -/+
Joe Riley -/+
James Wier -/+

Promotion outcome
Number of players: 7
Plus: 2
Minus: 0
Undecided: 5

Total outcome:
Number of players:18
Plus: 7
Minus: 3
Undecided:8


Yield on investment: 39%
Unsuccessful yield: 16,6%
Undecided: 44,4%

Today 39% of the players LVG signed are in use and should be considered helpful players. We should also follow the development of sold players to see how they follow through. It's impossible to be 100% in the transfer market.

When you look at the cold hard facts here then you have to say LVG was a success. I would say it was the right decision to move him on as he was retiring soon. But the man was a genius in many regards and brought us the FA cup which Fergie couldn't do for 10+ years (very frustrating).

If we win the Europa league then he has laid the foundations for our most successful season since Fergie retired.

Maybe we should offer him Director of Football???

 

[Attila]

"Thank you, for the foundations...Louis"

 

[spwd]

Yep. But for some reason it doesn't apply to Moyes.
LVG's FA Cup win wasn't down to the foundations laid by Moyes or even Sir Alex, It was LVG.
It doesn't matter that we played unadulterated shit football. (That was part of the philosophy) We would have been better after another 3 years.
It doesn't matter that he played sub par youth players that were never in anyway good enough to grace the OT turf, because Rahford came good. (they'll throw the TFM claim at you as well despite only starting 2 league games for us)
It doesn't matter that he turned to Nick Powell to rescue a vital European game. The same Nick Powell he sent on loan 4 days later.

Ashley Young up front anyone? In the same game that Martial was playing wide?

You get the Barcelona/Bayern shit regurgitated. The idea that Xavi would never have made it were it not for LBG's love of a good young fella! The myth he taught our team of internationals how to pass a ball to their teammate. And it goes on and on. And you can get embroiled in a debate that you can never win with these apologists, because you keep getting hit with tangents and hypothetical's. But you can't hide from the basic truth. That truth was witnessed by all. Under LVG we played the most insipid, boring, shit football that has ever been witnessed at Old Trafford. Eye gouging dross that alienated the vast majority of the fan base. Drivel, that reduced us to begging a UTD side to 'attack,attack attack' at Old Trafford. Ironic cheers for a first shot on target in the 80th minute.
I didn't imagine this, it happened.
I'm fairly sure its unique to LVG too (But I only go back to big Ron)

Foundations? Foundations indeed

Very well said.

Moyes foundations are even better, 100% hit with Fellaini and Mata

Exactly.

When you look at the cold hard facts here then you have to say LVG was a success. I would say it was the right decision to move him on as he was retiring soon. But the man was a genius in many regards and brought us the FA cup which Fergie couldn't do for 10+ years (very frustrating).

If we win the Europa league then he has laid the foundations for our most successful season since Fergie retired.

Maybe we should offer him Director of Football???

Jesus Christ I hope you're wumming, a fecking genius doesn't put Nick fecking Powell on to rescue a cl game, he was a complete fraud ffs!

 

[Chris M]

You can try and find positives for the LVG foundations, but the two main ones where buying Martial and giving Rashford a start , even though it was partially forced due to injuries. But even giving credit for those two decisions, would anyone seriously want to go back to watching the football we played under him, it was awful.

 

[TheSweeper]

You can try and find positives for the LVG foundations, but the two main ones where buying Martial and giving Rashford a start , even though it was partially forced due to injuries. But even giving credit for those two decisions, would anyone seriously want to go back to watching the football we played under him, it was awful.

No one in their right mind would want to go back to that. There is a big difference between wanting him to be the manager & believing in that he has given us a platform to build on. The football was basic yet heavily influenced by players not playing out of position & possession. Everything was very strict & a lot of us believe we needed it.

Again the top clubs have a very similar approach. Barcelona, Bayern & Madrid play to strict structures to the point that players like xavi & schweinsteiger are easily replaced. That's where the long term benefits lie. I believe anyway that LVG has given us that structure to be built upon & we won't see many differences between the 433 and 352 (which is the same formation but in attack & defense respectively) he tried to fix here.

No one is saying that his name should be put on trophies but we as a club have had something to build upon ever since he bought a somewhat level playing field - by making sure everyone plays to one tactical approach.

That's what makes bayern & Barcelona really hard to displace; because simply - they are the best at what they do.

Likewise- we will eventually fall in to position & become the best at our own style of football under Jose or any other future manager; but it was LVG who insisted on 11 players playing in direct correlation with each other.

It's not magic; it's purely the importance of team work.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

When you look at the cold hard facts here then you have to say LVG was a success. I would say it was the right decision to move him on as he was retiring soon. But the man was a genius in many regards and brought us the FA cup which Fergie couldn't do for 10+ years (very frustrating).

If we win the Europa league then he has laid the foundations for our most successful season since Fergie retired.

Maybe we should offer him Director of Football???

What a fecking loss.

 

[Successful]

All negative comments only point to single mistakes. Yes he didn't get everything sorted but he made sure we got on the right track. Nick Powell didn't come on because of injuries in the same way that successful mistake Rashford did?

I understand now that this thread is premature. I'll rest my case until the end of the season to begin with and then we'll see what's next.

It's remarkable to see the hate towards a man that left with winning a cup. And our fans complaints about Leicester?

 

[SteveW]

Came in, spent millions and left behind a squad devoid of character, confidence and identity. He doesn't deserve any credit.

Jose is not perfect bt at least he's beginning to make the club look and feel like Manchester United again after Moyes/LVG turned us into a soft touch and a laughing stock. Teams couldn't wait to play us under the last two managers

 

[Chris M]

I think too much emphasis is being put into his influence, whilst I agree that Barcelona, Bayern and to a lesser degree Madrid play to a system coached though out their clubs, they are helped by the leagues that they play in and having a limited number of quality opposition.
The platform or system that is being lauded was so predictable, possession football with no intent of an attacking threat, miles away from the football that Barcelona and Bayern play. As for Madrid, well there failing have been masked by having the worlds best footballer for a number of years, footballs much easier when you have a goal machine.

No one in their right mind would want to go back to that. There is a big difference between wanting him to be the manager & believing in that he has given us a platform to build on. The football was basic yet heavily influenced by players not playing out of position & possession. Everything was very strict & a lot of us believe we needed it.

Again the top clubs have a very similar approach. Barcelona, Bayern & Madrid play to strict structures to the point that players like xavi & schweinsteiger are easily replaced. That's where the long term benefits lie. I believe anyway that LVG has given us that structure to be built upon & we won't see many differences between the 433 and 352 (which is the same formation but in attack & defense respectively) he tried to fix here.

No one is saying that his name should be put on trophies but we as a club have had something to build upon ever since he bought a somewhat level playing field - by making sure everyone plays to one tactical approach.

That's what makes bayern & Barcelona really hard to displace; because simply - they are the best at what they do.

Likewise- we will eventually fall in to position & become the best at our own style of football under Jose or any other future manager; but it was LVG who insisted on 11 players playing in direct correlation with each other.

It's not magic; it's purely the importance of team work.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We keep the ball better because we respect possession better, we switch formations with ease, and Rashord, Lingard and Fosu Mensah were promoted. I will forever be greatful for those things and the fa cup win. Regardless of being glad he left.

And defence being improved. We were a bit laughable at the back under Moyes if I'm not mistaken. Under lvg our defence was one of the leagues best. People claimed it was down to de gea and possession football (odd correlation to draw) but with nearly the same defence, were just as good at the back this season.

 

[Akshay]

All negative comments only point to single mistakes. Yes he didn't get everything sorted but he made sure we got on the right track. Nick Powell didn't come on because of injuries in the same way that successful mistake Rashford did?

I understand now that this thread is premature. I'll rest my case until the end of the season to begin with and then we'll see what's next.

It's remarkable to see the hate towards a man that left with winning a cup. And our fans complaints about Leicester?

Why doesn't your list have Schweiny, Valdes, Di Maria etc on it? Schweiny is a - here still, Valdes was definitely a failure, and Di Maria LVG himself moved on at a loss after 1 season. Not sure how much credit he deserves for Herrera either since it was obviously club directed and he made really poor use of Herrera during his time here.

LVG's tenure wasn't all negative (better than Moyes imo) but the football was awful to watch and even after 2 seasons of training his way I didn't consider us an effective possession-based team.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

And defence being improved. We were a bit laughable at the back under Moyes if I'm not mistaken. Under lvg our defence was one of the leagues best. People claimed it was down to de gea and possession football (odd correlation to draw) but with nearly the same defence, were just as good at the back this season.

That and bagging Martial when we did.

 

[POF]

All negative comments only point to single mistakes. Yes he didn't get everything sorted but he made sure we got on the right track. Nick Powell didn't come on because of injuries in the same way that successful mistake Rashford did?

I understand now that this thread is premature. I'll rest my case until the end of the season to begin with and then we'll see what's next.

It's remarkable to see the hate towards a man that left with winning a cup. And our fans complaints about Leicester?

Credit where credit is due. I'm impressed how long you're keeping this going.

 

[Kostur]

Ladies and gentlemen,

LVG's Legacy, The.

 

[saivet]

LVG was never that negative.

 

[coolredwine]

It was as if I was taken back in time.

 

[Bojan11]

LVG was never that negative.

And we never looked good going forward under him as we did for the first 70 minutes.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Valdes wouldn't have been sold to Boro if not for LVG, so he deserves compete credit for today's win. Absolute genius, that king Louis.

 

[Kostur]

LVG was never that negative.

I meant Valdes.

 

[TheSweeper]

Exactly - it will take us a good year or two to actually utilize this well. Even if we don't play 352 - it was evident today that Valencia at RB Young at LB, Lingard, Rojo Rashford etc etc.

Think it's time we close the thread.

I been telling people since ages that we are on an upward trajectory ever since LVG entered & it will continue.

Possession, defense, & most importantly team structure no matter what formation we use.

The thing that makes Barcelona & Bayern the greatest currently is because their team structure never fluctuate. They know where everybody is & makes a tremendous difference to following any managers instructions.

Yes it's only middlesborough today but again - you are seeing things once the guy has left.

United will be the biggest club in the world in about 3-4 years & I mean the biggest in terms of results et all.

 

[TheSweeper]

And we never looked good going forward under him as we did for the first 70 minutes.

What's in Louis Head is different to how he utilised it. He is awful at 'doing things' & always tries to Van gaalise the club as said by many players & chairmen. However he has the right ideas, he was bought for the philosophy ( BTW ever since he said that have you noticed how every club has one?) ; and it goes to prove what I say.. LVG has had such an abysmal win record hardly winning anything of importance apart from a few league titles with the biggest clubs - yet he was consistently hired by these big clubs after a period of distress.

We as fans know just what's seen on a pitch & educationally we know nothing about football.

 

[MoskvaRed]

What's in Louis Head is different to how he utilised it. He is awful at 'doing things' & always tries to Van gaalise the club as said by many players & chairmen. However he has the right ideas, he was bought for the philosophy ( BTW ever since he said that have you noticed how every club has one?) ; and it goes to prove what I say.. LVG has had such an abysmal win record hardly winning anything of importance apart from a few league titles with the biggest clubs - yet he was consistently hired by these big clubs after a period of distress.

We as fans know just what's seen on a pitch & educationally we know nothing about football.

I'm afraid I don't see it. It looks like 2 largely wasted years to me which one of the best managers in the business is still struggling to clean up. Also, Van Gaal was Spurs-bound until United got desperate for an established big-name manager after the 9 month Moyes fiasco and found most big names were taken. There was no master plan at work to hire Van Gaal and follow the Barcelona/BM blueprint.

 

[Chorley1974]

Love the hate he and his fans get they look at us and see that we are all deluded.

However - we have told them that the future is set in stone while they come up with nothing and laugh at us.

It is all good - we are all supporters and arguably the people in the football community that know the least about football itself.

People comparing LVG to moyes have you even seen that great players talk about LVG's influence as well as his severe short comings?

No no, the guy has done nothing for the clubs he has managed yet his CV rolls from one big club to another!

Supporters are just two pair of eyes that see what is layed right in front of them.

It's just like brexit.

 

[TheSweeper]

I'm afraid I don't see it. It looks like 2 largely wasted years to me which one of the best managers in the business is still struggling to clean up. Also, Van Gaal was Spurs-bound until United got desperate for an established big-name manager after the 9 month Moyes fiasco and found most big names were taken. There was no master plan at work to hire Van Gaal and follow the Barcelona/BM blueprint.

I mean it's okay you don't see it. None of this is trying to convince anybody. The believers believe and see things to this day & probably will see things in the future. Just as much as Jose is likely to take us places & have his shortcomings - yet the next manager after him can utilize the strengths of what he will leave behind.

I just really want a thread where the fans who can see it - can have a place in this forum to talk about it.

Today we played 3 at the back - Rashford upfront lingard on the sides, Valencia & young as wing backs - almost resembling lvg's last season. That's without all the possession numbers that have continued to stay at the top of the league even with new recruitment.

I just don't really like this thread being about bashing the people who see traces of what LVG had taught the team - I would much rather they just go to the Jose forums and talk about how he has managed to teach them to play 343 in 2 matches or so.