LVG's Legacy/Foundations

[Shinehead Dred]

The same was done when LVG was in charge? Cough cough. If anything if people are talking about foundations the last thing they want is the next manager to fail

Jose will be fine. He always would be fine & successful here whether it was Moyes he was replacing or LVG. The fact is to break the habit of his 3 year tenure he will have to one day FULLY trust the players that LVG bought through that deserve to be here. LVG showed a certain level of trust towards martial Rashford Lingard TFM Varela Pereira Poole & this would have only continued to include the likes of Tuenzebe & other potential stars.

If Jose does not utilize these players then ultimately he will struggle to provide us with the stability we as supporters and he as the manager of Manchester United; all crave.

These foundations aren't some work of genius - it's purely trusting & utilizing youth in to a system they find comfortable in.

LVG at Ajax- Kluivert & Co
LVG at Barcelona - puyOl iniesta xavi valdes
LVG at Bayern - Alaba schweinsteiger Muller Badstuber
LVG at United - Rashford Lingard TFM Valencia CBJ etc etc

How can people be so blind to the positives this guy brings especially when they include some of the best players in their generation attribute g their and their clubs success to LVG's foundation!

All these players were given debuts & given sustained chances to make an impression. Some were asked to change position & instantly became better.

As Lahm said - LVG brings a clear focus on tactics' when explaining who the farther of bayern s dominance arose from.

Whilst all you laugh and smileys'' about the fact that LVG & Tactics are said in the same sentence - it is important to realize just like Barcelona & Bayern we as a club was a club heading nowhere - no tactics & the players were poor in discipline. You compare this group of players to the one moyes was left with & it's batently obvious that this group of players are much better at following instructions and tactics no matter how awful they were.

When the right manager with the right tactics comes in; this equals to dominance.

Anyway the successful dominance of Barcelona & Bayern - soon to be united all follow the trajectory of LVG's CV.

Time to laugh boys because all you think that players are robots and they suddenly lose everything they have been taught. Sure the LVG lag is bad - but that lag comes about because of pressure to being focused on following tactics.

The tactics have changed but now the players have the right mentality of following them with the added benefit of having their own freedom.

No no lets just belive these supporters shall we forget the fact Xavi & Iniesta & Lahm would attribute the start of club dominance to him. How can people be so thick to believe their selves rather than the professionals they watch

Some means not all. I'm sure some posters genuinely believe he has left some kind of indelible legacy. I don't that's all. I didn't feel at all negative about LVG's appointment. I was prepared to give him a chance. Also my quip about Big Ron was true. I was gutted. Didn't think Fergie was going to turn it around and how wrong was I? Sometimes you just have to trust that the club you support has got it right.

All I'm saying is despite all the talk of foundations LVG presided over the most mind numbing, tumescent football for many a year, and was sacked, and thankfully we have now moved on. The team are in a far better place don't you think? Or am I being thick?

Personally I support the club over the individuals in it. The individuals have my support because they manage or play for the club. I don't presume to speak for other people. So if Mourinho doesn't learn his lesson by not relying on vangle's outstanding legacy and gets sacked, I won't be starting a Mourinho Foundation thread. The next manager will come in and I'll switch my support to him.

So for all the talk about all the great things LVG has achieved (some disputable, some not) don't mean jack really. Because he's not the Man United manager anymore, and he's no longer relevant.

See and not one smiley....

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Bull. LVG isn't the 1st and only manager to implement tactics in case you haven't noticed. All managers have tactics. LVG tactics are just extreme and mundane. My conclusion is his style was alien and disruptive. Jose has rightly given them more attacking freedom like most managers do and given Herrera a different tactical role.

I don't see how the players you mentioned means he has laid foundations. Jose has taken over Man Utd, therefore the 2 managers will have many of the same players. My point is how many of them are 1st teamers we rely on? squad players doesn't equal "laying the foundations". foundations are the spine of the team or the ones you build the side around.

Also notice that the players listed almost all of them have been below average or utter gash. Notice he left out schnederlin from his list. How he is giving him credit for the work of our youth team managers is beyond me and as for Valencia at RB as if he has never been used there before and is not exactly a revelation either.

 

[Stacks]

Also notice that the players listed almost all of them have been below average or utter gash. Notice he left out schnederlin from his list. How he is giving him credit for the work of our youth team managers is beyond me and as for Valencia at RB as if he has never been used there before and is not exactly a revelation either.

Depay has been left out. Bastian also. I guess we are focusing on the foundations he has supposedly left.

 

[TheSweeper]

Some means not all. I'm sure some posters genuinely believe he has left some kind of indelible legacy. I don't that's all. I didn't feel at all negative about LVG's appointment. I was prepared to give him a chance. Also my quip about Big Ron was true. I was gutted. Didn't think Fergie was going to turn it around and how wrong was I? Sometimes you just have to trust that the club you support has got it right.

All I'm saying is despite all the talk of foundations LVG presided over the most mind numbing, tumescent football for many a year, and was sacked, and thankfully we have now moved on. The team are in a far better place don't you think? Or am I being thick?

Personally I support the club over the individuals in it. The individuals have my support because they manage or play for the club. I don't presume to speak for other people. So if Mourinho doesn't learn his lesson by not relying on vangle's outstanding legacy and gets sacked, I won't be starting a Mourinho Foundation thread. The next manager will come in and I'll switch my support to him.

So for all the talk about all the great things LVG has achieved (some disputable, some not) don't mean jack really. Because he's not the Man United manager anymore, and he's no longer relevant.

See and not one smiley....

That is a good post. What I don't agree with is people saying LVG left nothing behind trying to sound lilke he left the club in a disarray with no positives whatsoever. As you admitted there is some indisputable goodness he has bought & this is pretty much what he has always bought with him. The boring football stuff is also part of his parcel & that doesn't bring many benefits at all. However some fans will say he did nothing. 10 years down the line Rashford & Martial could be club legends yet people won't even contemplate LVG being even 5% important to them and then insitu ; our club.

That's what I find irritating. He isn't handing a parcel with gifts to Jose. He just gave him a good basis to start his own thing on. That doesn't take anything away from Jose neither does that give LVG some immortality in our footballing history.

 

[TheSweeper]

Also notice that the players listed almost all of them have been below average or utter gash. Notice he left out schnederlin from his list. How he is giving him credit for the work of our youth team managers is beyond me and as for Valencia at RB as if he has never been used there before and is not exactly a revelation either.

So wait Valencia was a WC RB before LVG who permanently moved him from RM to RB? OKAY THEN. if your talking about him on the international stage then he was very poor at RB for them until he had his first full season at United.

Who are you going to attribute that to BTW?

Also IV got no problem admitting LVG's signings are trash - from riquelme to schweinsteiger - he is very poor in the transfer marker but his ability to spot talent in youth teams cannot be questioned.

Lilke how people say that Rashford was bought only in to the squad because everyone was injured. There were older and more experienced strikers available from our reserves but he decide to invert a average winger & make him lead the line.

What kind of negligence is that.

 

[Successful]

Spoiler: Amazing post

The same was done when LVG was in charge? Cough cough. If anything if people are talking about foundations the last thing they want is the next manager to fail

Jose will be fine. He always would be fine & successful here whether it was Moyes he was replacing or LVG. The fact is to break the habit of his 3 year tenure he will have to one day FULLY trust the players that LVG bought through that deserve to be here. LVG showed a certain level of trust towards martial Rashford Lingard TFM Varela Pereira Poole & this would have only continued to include the likes of Tuenzebe & other potential stars.

If Jose does not utilize these players then ultimately he will struggle to provide us with the stability we as supporters and he as the manager of Manchester United; all crave.

These foundations aren't some work of genius - it's purely trusting & utilizing youth in to a system they find comfortable in.

LVG at Ajax- Kluivert & Co
LVG at Barcelona - puyOl iniesta xavi valdes
LVG at Bayern - Alaba schweinsteiger Muller Badstuber
LVG at United - Rashford Lingard TFM Valencia CBJ etc etc

How can people be so blind to the positives this guy brings especially when they include some of the best players in their generation attribute g their and their clubs success to LVG's foundation!

All these players were given debuts & given sustained chances to make an impression. Some were asked to change position & instantly became better.

As Lahm said - LVG brings a clear focus on tactics' when explaining who the farther of bayern s dominance arose from.

Whilst all you laugh and smileys'' about the fact that LVG & Tactics are said in the same sentence - it is important to realize just like Barcelona & Bayern we as a club was a club heading nowhere - no tactics & the players were poor in discipline. You compare this group of players to the one moyes was left with & it's batently obvious that this group of players are much better at following instructions and tactics no matter how awful they were.

When the right manager with the right tactics comes in; this equals to dominance.

Anyway the successful dominance of Barcelona & Bayern - soon to be united all follow the trajectory of LVG's CV.

Time to laugh boys because all you think that players are robots and they suddenly lose everything they have been taught. Sure the LVG lag is bad - but that lag comes about because of pressure to being focused on following tactics.

The tactics have changed but now the players have the right mentality of following them with the added benefit of having their own freedom.

No no lets just belive these supporters shall we forget the fact Xavi & Iniesta & Lahm would attribute the start of club dominance to him. How can people be so thick to believe their selves rather than the professionals they watch

Wow, that's quite a post. Thanks for bringing value into the thread.

 

[facund]

Lilke how people say that Rashford was bought only in to the squad because everyone was injured. There were older and more experienced strikers available from our reserves but he decide to invert a average winger & make him lead the line.

Like who?
Will Keane was out injured after being thrown in as a sub not long before, Ashley Fletcher was out on loan, James Wilson was out on loan (and probably injured), Nick Powell was out on loan (a previous desperate punt). He had tried nearly everyone else (three of the four options above) by the time Martial got injured warming-up before the Midtjylland game. Fair play to him though, he had given up on the idea of sticking Fellaini up top by that point. No doubt LVG can be hailed as having unearthed some fantastic young players but the idea that the emergence of Rashford as a first team player was a product of anything other than a process of elimination is difficult to countenance (he hadn't even made a sub appearance before that point).

 

[illReD]

So wait Valencia was a WC RB before LVG who permanently moved him from RM to RB? OKAY THEN. if your talking about him on the international stage then he was very poor at RB for them until he had his first full season at United.

Who are you going to attribute that to BTW?

Also IV got no problem admitting LVG's signings are trash - from riquelme to schweinsteiger - he is very poor in the transfer marker but his ability to spot talent in youth teams cannot be questioned.

Lilke how people say that Rashford was bought only in to the squad because everyone was injured. There were older and more experienced strikers available from our reserves but he decide to invert a average winger & make him lead the line.

What kind of negligence is that.

Taking Rashford actually left our reserves needing to use a false 9 system due to no striker lol.

 

[3KDré]

So wait Valencia was a WC RB before LVG who permanently moved him from RM to RB? OKAY THEN. if your talking about him on the international stage then he was very poor at RB for them until he had his first full season at United.

Who are you going to attribute that to BTW?

Also IV got no problem admitting LVG's signings are trash - from riquelme to schweinsteiger - he is very poor in the transfer marker but his ability to spot talent in youth teams cannot be questioned.

Lilke how people say that Rashford was bought only in to the squad because everyone was injured. There were older and more experienced strikers available from our reserves but he decide to invert a average winger & make him lead the line.

What kind of negligence is that.

No, Keane was injured. There was literally no one. AND he hadn't converted Rashford, he had already been converted.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

• 
  
• 
  
• 
  

• So wait Valencia was a WC RB before LVG who permanently moved him from RM to RB? OKAY THEN. if your talking about him on the international stage then he was very poor at RB for them until he had his first full season at United.
  
  Who are you going to attribute that to BTW?
  
  Also IV got no problem admitting LVG's signings are trash - from riquelme to schweinsteiger - he is very poor in the transfer marker but his ability to spot talent in youth teams cannot be questioned.
  
  Lilke how people say that Rashford was bought only in to the squad because everyone was injured. There were older and more experienced strikers available from our reserves but he decide to invert a average winger & make him lead the line.
  
  What kind of negligence is that.

I am going to attribute that to absolutely no one because he isn't world fecking class.

Its also astonishing that you don't even recognise that his best performances have been under JM.

The delusion is strong in this one.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

This thread is fecking mental!

What do you expect from people who think they can give LVG credit for allowing managers to clean up his mess. They fail to realise that all 4 of JM's signing have been a success and are the primary factor of our decent run. Also not to mention players that did not play under LVG or at least got left out are now playing good stuff.

This is just a continuation of trying to attribute other people's work to him. It's a strange and baffling phenomena

 

[Moonred]

He can make grade a cnuts like Van Bommel cry. What a monster.

 

[sunama]

This is just a continuation of trying to attribute other people's work to him. It's a strange and baffling phenomena

The strange thing is that this "foundation" nonsense has happened at every club he worked at.
He gets fired. The next manager takes over, wins...and LVG somehow gets credit.

These saddo LVG die hards are just like the Hydra. Close one thread and another two pop up in their place.

Funniest comment of the thread.

 

[TheSweeper]

What do you expect from people who think they can give LVG credit for allowing managers to clean up his mess. They fail to realise that all 4 of JM's signing have been a success and are the primary factor of our decent run. Also not to mention players that did not play under LVG or at least got left out are now playing good stuff.

This is just a continuation of trying to attribute other people's work to him. It's a strange and baffling phenomena

This is what I'm talking about. No one is saying anything about Jose. No one is even saying we are successful because of LVG because we ain't. All we are saying he did a decent job & better job than it looks on paper.

 

[TheSweeper]

The strange thing is that this "foundation" nonsense has happened at every club he worked at.
He gets fired. The next manager takes over, wins...and LVG somehow gets credit.

duh that's why there is a strong belief in foundations just stumbled on the dog doo again

 

[TheSweeper]

Seriously I don't get why the people who don't agree have to be in this thread. Why can't you let the believers belive?

Just go make a thread of your own ' LVG made it harder for Jpse' etc & we will stay out of it.

 

[RedPed]

This is what I'm talking about. No one is saying anything about Jose. No one is even saying we are successful because of LVG because we ain't. All we are saying he did a decent job & better job than it looks on paper.

Well there's the rub because actually he didn't! If he had done a decent job, the FA Cup would have saved his ass! For the time and resources that he had.....a lot more than Moyes remember, he really did come up woefully short.

 

[AR87]

The truth about LVG probably lies somewhere between he laid the foundations for the future and he was utter shite that was woeful.

Unlike Moyes I think LVG knew what the squad needed - he talked about needing better attacking talent consistently and did sign a CM, RB, CB and wingers in the transfer windows he had - and he also knew who the squad didn't need, with only Chicha being a player that left who went on to have any success or impact. What he sucked at was finding the right players to address the areas of weakness he had correctly identified and then seemed to haphazardly try to find solutions by moving players into all kinds of different positions.

I don't pine for his return or view his reign as a success, but I don't believe it was an unmitigated disaster either. He wasted a lot of money, but also got rid of players that needed to be moved on and at least got us in and around the top-4 in his 2 seasons with an FA Cup victory as well after a year under Moyes which really could have set back the club. It's not really a noteworthy achievement, but it's okay. I don't really care about him one way or the other anymore.

 

[Hed Zitin]

The only legacy he has is, because of his really poor squad management and injury record Rashford was thrust into the team and he won our first trophy post Sir Alex.

 

[Ishdalar]

The same was done when LVG was in charge? Cough cough. If anything if people are talking about foundations the last thing they want is the next manager to fail

Jose will be fine. He always would be fine & successful here whether it was Moyes he was replacing or LVG. The fact is to break the habit of his 3 year tenure he will have to one day FULLY trust the players that LVG bought through that deserve to be here. LVG showed a certain level of trust towards martial Rashford Lingard TFM Varela Pereira Poole & this would have only continued to include the likes of Tuenzebe & other potential stars.

If Jose does not utilize these players then ultimately he will struggle to provide us with the stability we as supporters and he as the manager of Manchester United; all crave.

These foundations aren't some work of genius - it's purely trusting & utilizing youth in to a system they find comfortable in.

LVG at Ajax- Kluivert & Co
LVG at Barcelona - puyOl iniesta xavi valdes
LVG at Bayern - Alaba schweinsteiger Muller Badstuber
LVG at United - Rashford Lingard TFM Valencia CBJ etc etc

How can people be so blind to the positives this guy brings especially when they include some of the best players in their generation attribute g their and their clubs success to LVG's foundation!

All these players were given debuts & given sustained chances to make an impression. Some were asked to change position & instantly became better.

As Lahm said - LVG brings a clear focus on tactics' when explaining who the farther of bayern s dominance arose from.

Whilst all you laugh and smileys'' about the fact that LVG & Tactics are said in the same sentence - it is important to realize just like Barcelona & Bayern we as a club was a club heading nowhere - no tactics & the players were poor in discipline. You compare this group of players to the one moyes was left with & it's batently obvious that this group of players are much better at following instructions and tactics no matter how awful they were.

When the right manager with the right tactics comes in; this equals to dominance.

Anyway the successful dominance of Barcelona & Bayern - soon to be united all follow the trajectory of LVG's CV.

Time to laugh boys because all you think that players are robots and they suddenly lose everything they have been taught. Sure the LVG lag is bad - but that lag comes about because of pressure to being focused on following tactics.

The tactics have changed but now the players have the right mentality of following them with the added benefit of having their own freedom.

No no lets just belive these supporters shall we forget the fact Xavi & Iniesta & Lahm would attribute the start of club dominance to him. How can people be so thick to believe their selves rather than the professionals they watch

His "legacy" in Barcelona, I have to "" at that

Iniesta was called up by Serra Ferrer to train with the first team 2 years before LVG's return, he was 15 at that time and already hailed as the best player in the youth system, same as Xavi, that was said to be Guardiola's succesor since he played for juveniles. Giving LVG the praise for what those 2 players have become is like saying Rijkaard "made" Lionel Messi, the fact that they gave those players the chance to play and the minutes to show how good they were just shows us they were, at least, not inept managers that couldn't recognize world class talent in a youth player when he was in their squad.

Beyond that what followed beyond LVG's era were the worst seasons this club had since Cruyff took over.


He arrived to a club that was in a good momentum after Robson's season, with a squad that was considered full of world quality players at that moment(Vitor Baia, Figo, Stoichkov, Rivaldo, Giovanni) and proven veterans (Abelardo, Ferrer, Amor, Sergi, Luis Enrique, Nadal, Pizzi) with the help of what was considered the best generation of young players the club had in their whole history (Oscar and Roger, De la Peña, Celades), this group of young players with others that failed to made the cut (Velamazan, Moreno, or Quique Alvarez) made "history" when 2 years before LVG's arrival formed a squad of 8 players formed in the youth ranks in a League match, something that hadn't happened in the last 40 years of the competition. The young players LVG inherited were hailed as our own "quinta del buitre", the one that got Butragueño and RM to consecutive UEFA cups and a 5 year reign in La Liga. It was like if LVG got Utd's class of 92' plus RVN, Ronaldo, and Ferdinand.


So, with all those pieces he obviusly got results from the start (go figure) but when he left Barcelona the first time things were... well, plain worse.

His signings were horrible and created a black hole in the club finances, Bogarde, Reiziger, Ciric, Dugarry, Ronald and Frank de Boer, Zenden, Litmanen, Simao, Dehu or Dani were players that failed to consistently deliver what should've been expected of top quality players, he lost the whole core of young players he had on his arrival and failed to replace them with other young quality beyond Xavi (that could've been considered a sure thing) and Puyol. We lost De la Peña, the Junyent brothers and Celades. After LVG's first stint we endured a 6 years title drought, that speaks volumes of his legacy and the "impact" his philosophy and tactic focus had in the squad he left behind.


Aaaaand he came back with a vengeance in 2002, he made Rivaldo leave the team for free after he was one of the best players in the 2002 WC (to Milan, where he won the UCL) and got Riquelme (who he frustrated to the point to change him from star signing to loaned to Villarreal), he also sold Pepe Reina and kept Bonano as the starting GK signing Enke as the reserve (awful decision as we all now know), sold Luis Garcia (who returned a year later after an amazing season with Atletico) and got Sorin, he also got rid of a young Mikel Arteta and got washed-up Mendieta on a loan (here I really have to ). By January this team that still had a "core" of players carrying his legacy from 2 years before (Frank de Boer, Xavi, Puyol, Cocu, Kluivert and Gabri) were 20 points behind Real Madrid for the lead and 3 points above relegation, something that opened a crisis that ended with him fired and the president resigning.


In the end, his "legacy" at Barcelona was leaving the club in such a desperate state (no titles, no money and no UCL) that the president and the board had to resign, elections took place and Laporta builded a new team that went on to dominate the world, but yeah, 3 guys from LVG's era ended up being key players, so I guess that makes him responsable of our recent success

 

[Sad Chris]

Wow to anybody who really thinks this thread is worth bumping, but in case anybody lands here, I'll sum it up for you:

1. LvG came
2. He was entertaining at his first POTY awards
3. He won the FA Cup
4. He made us play the most uninspiring, boring football I can remember
5. He left us a couple of months too late
6. He will not be missed
7. Legacy/Foundations my fat hairy ass

 

[K2K]

This. LVG is a genius, he left a great legacy behind him every time he was sacked so that when the new manager comes in, he doesn't need to change anything, just continue LVG's great philosophy and truly amazing attacking football. Everything Barca and Bayern achieved since LVG was sacked was due to great LVG's legacy.

Too bad his philosophy is to bore fans and opposition teams to death. All new managers who come in after LVG is sacked need to scrap everything. Legacy...

I kid you not but @Dr. Funkenstein credited Louis Van Gaal for Germany' s 2014 world cup win and Spain's 2010 world cup win.Its somewhere in that LVG out thread.

I know you are joking, but these LVG disciples arent.

 

[spwd]

I wish this could be locked, anyone who believes the title must be a wum!!

 

[Stacks]

His "legacy" in Barcelona, I have to "" at that

Iniesta was called up by Serra Ferrer to train with the first team 2 years before LVG's return, he was 15 at that time and already hailed as the best player in the youth system, same as Xavi, that was said to be Guardiola's succesor since he played for juveniles. Giving LVG the praise for what those 2 players have become is like saying Rijkaard "made" Lionel Messi, the fact that they gave those players the chance to play and the minutes to show how good they were just shows us they were, at least, not inept managers that couldn't recognize world class talent in a youth player when he was in their squad.

Beyond that what followed beyond LVG's era were the worst seasons this club had since Cruyff took over.


He arrived to a club that was in a good momentum after Robson's season, with a squad that was considered full of world quality players at that moment(Vitor Baia, Figo, Stoichkov, Rivaldo, Giovanni) and proven veterans (Abelardo, Ferrer, Amor, Sergi, Luis Enrique, Nadal, Pizzi) with the help of what was considered the best generation of young players the club had in their whole history (Oscar and Roger, De la Peña, Celades), this group of young players with others that failed to made the cut (Velamazan, Moreno, or Quique Alvarez) made "history" when 2 years before LVG's arrival formed a squad of 8 players formed in the youth ranks in a League match, something that hadn't happened in the last 40 years of the competition. The young players LVG inherited were hailed as our own "quinta del buitre", the one that got Butragueño and RM to consecutive UEFA cups and a 5 year reign in La Liga. It was like if LVG got Utd's class of 92' plus RVN, Ronaldo, and Ferdinand.


So, with all those pieces he obviusly got results from the start (go figure) but when he left Barcelona the first time things were... well, plain worse.

His signings were horrible and created a black hole in the club finances, Bogarde, Reiziger, Ciric, Dugarry, Ronald and Frank de Boer, Zenden, Litmanen, Simao, Dehu or Dani were players that failed to consistently deliver what should've been expected of top quality players, he lost the whole core of young players he had on his arrival and failed to replace them with other young quality beyond Xavi (that could've been considered a sure thing) and Puyol. We lost De la Peña, the Junyent brothers and Celades. After LVG's first stint we endured a 6 years title drought, that speaks volumes of his legacy and the "impact" his philosophy and tactic focus had in the squad he left behind.


Aaaaand he came back with a vengeance in 2002, he made Rivaldo leave the team for free after he was one of the best players in the 2002 WC (to Milan, where he won the UCL) and got Riquelme (who he frustrated to the point to change him from star signing to loaned to Villarreal), he also sold Pepe Reina and kept Bonano as the starting GK signing Enke as the reserve (awful decision as we all now know), sold Luis Garcia (who returned a year later after an amazing season with Atletico) and got Sorin, he also got rid of a young Mikel Arteta and got washed-up Mendieta on a loan (here I really have to ). By January this team that still had a "core" of players carrying his legacy from 2 years before (Frank de Boer, Xavi, Puyol, Cocu, Kluivert and Gabri) were 20 points behind Real Madrid for the lead and 3 points above relegation, something that opened a crisis that ended with him fired and the president resigning.


In the end, his "legacy" at Barcelona was leaving the club in such a desperate state (no titles, no money and no UCL) that the president and the board had to resign, elections took place and Laporta builded a new team that went on to dominate the world, but yeah, 3 guys from LVG's era ended up being key players, so I guess that makes him responsable of our recent success

Look mate, LVG is like the big bang. everything positive that develops in any football club he has touched, is down to him. He is the only manager that gets praised after he has left a football club, and is the mastermind to their future successes, as he is the only person who can lay foundations and leave a legacy. Do you think that Chelsea's League double and champions league has anything to do with Jose Mourinho's foundations? no. Real Madrid's recent champions league successes, would you say they are Jose's legacy? of course not. Man City's recent successes have nothing to do with Mark Hughes foundations. Just accept it like the rest of us.

 

[K2K]

His "legacy" in Barcelona, I have to "" at that

Iniesta was called up by Serra Ferrer to train with the first team 2 years before LVG's return, he was 15 at that time and already hailed as the best player in the youth system, same as Xavi, that was said to be Guardiola's succesor since he played for juveniles. Giving LVG the praise for what those 2 players have become is like saying Rijkaard "made" Lionel Messi, the fact that they gave those players the chance to play and the minutes to show how good they were just shows us they were, at least, not inept managers that couldn't recognize world class talent in a youth player when he was in their squad.

Beyond that what followed beyond LVG's era were the worst seasons this club had since Cruyff took over.


He arrived to a club that was in a good momentum after Robson's season, with a squad that was considered full of world quality players at that moment(Vitor Baia, Figo, Stoichkov, Rivaldo, Giovanni) and proven veterans (Abelardo, Ferrer, Amor, Sergi, Luis Enrique, Nadal, Pizzi) with the help of what was considered the best generation of young players the club had in their whole history (Oscar and Roger, De la Peña, Celades), this group of young players with others that failed to made the cut (Velamazan, Moreno, or Quique Alvarez) made "history" when 2 years before LVG's arrival formed a squad of 8 players formed in the youth ranks in a League match, something that hadn't happened in the last 40 years of the competition. The young players LVG inherited were hailed as our own "quinta del buitre", the one that got Butragueño and RM to consecutive UEFA cups and a 5 year reign in La Liga. It was like if LVG got Utd's class of 92' plus RVN, Ronaldo, and Ferdinand.


So, with all those pieces he obviusly got results from the start (go figure) but when he left Barcelona the first time things were... well, plain worse.

His signings were horrible and created a black hole in the club finances, Bogarde, Reiziger, Ciric, Dugarry, Ronald and Frank de Boer, Zenden, Litmanen, Simao, Dehu or Dani were players that failed to consistently deliver what should've been expected of top quality players, he lost the whole core of young players he had on his arrival and failed to replace them with other young quality beyond Xavi (that could've been considered a sure thing) and Puyol. We lost De la Peña, the Junyent brothers and Celades. After LVG's first stint we endured a 6 years title drought, that speaks volumes of his legacy and the "impact" his philosophy and tactic focus had in the squad he left behind.


Aaaaand he came back with a vengeance in 2002, he made Rivaldo leave the team for free after he was one of the best players in the 2002 WC (to Milan, where he won the UCL) and got Riquelme (who he frustrated to the point to change him from star signing to loaned to Villarreal), he also sold Pepe Reina and kept Bonano as the starting GK signing Enke as the reserve (awful decision as we all now know), sold Luis Garcia (who returned a year later after an amazing season with Atletico) and got Sorin, he also got rid of a young Mikel Arteta and got washed-up Mendieta on a loan (here I really have to ). By January this team that still had a "core" of players carrying his legacy from 2 years before (Frank de Boer, Xavi, Puyol, Cocu, Kluivert and Gabri) were 20 points behind Real Madrid for the lead and 3 points above relegation, something that opened a crisis that ended with him fired and the president resigning.


In the end, his "legacy" at Barcelona was leaving the club in such a desperate state (no titles, no money and no UCL) that the president and the board had to resign, elections took place and Laporta builded a new team that went on to dominate the world, but yeah, 3 guys from LVG's era ended up being key players, so I guess that makes him responsable of our recent success

Great post but I doubt they will listen to you.

You should probably add that Van Gaal was fired in January just 6 months into his new tenure with Barca just 3 points from the relegation places. In January!

 

[TheSweeper]

His "legacy" in Barcelona, I have to "" at that

Iniesta was called up by Serra Ferrer to train with the first team 2 years before LVG's return, he was 15 at that time and already hailed as the best player in the youth system, same as Xavi, that was said to be Guardiola's succesor since he played for juveniles. Giving LVG the praise for what those 2 players have become is like saying Rijkaard "made" Lionel Messi, the fact that they gave those players the chance to play and the minutes to show how good they were just shows us they were, at least, not inept managers that couldn't recognize world class talent in a youth player when he was in their squad.

Beyond that what followed beyond LVG's era were the worst seasons this club had since Cruyff took over.


He arrived to a club that was in a good momentum after Robson's season, with a squad that was considered full of world quality players at that moment(Vitor Baia, Figo, Stoichkov, Rivaldo, Giovanni) and proven veterans (Abelardo, Ferrer, Amor, Sergi, Luis Enrique, Nadal, Pizzi) with the help of what was considered the best generation of young players the club had in their whole history (Oscar and Roger, De la Peña, Celades), this group of young players with others that failed to made the cut (Velamazan, Moreno, or Quique Alvarez) made "history" when 2 years before LVG's arrival formed a squad of 8 players formed in the youth ranks in a League match, something that hadn't happened in the last 40 years of the competition. The young players LVG inherited were hailed as our own "quinta del buitre", the one that got Butragueño and RM to consecutive UEFA cups and a 5 year reign in La Liga. It was like if LVG got Utd's class of 92' plus RVN, Ronaldo, and Ferdinand.


So, with all those pieces he obviusly got results from the start (go figure) but when he left Barcelona the first time things were... well, plain worse.

His signings were horrible and created a black hole in the club finances, Bogarde, Reiziger, Ciric, Dugarry, Ronald and Frank de Boer, Zenden, Litmanen, Simao, Dehu or Dani were players that failed to consistently deliver what should've been expected of top quality players, he lost the whole core of young players he had on his arrival and failed to replace them with other young quality beyond Xavi (that could've been considered a sure thing) and Puyol. We lost De la Peña, the Junyent brothers and Celades. After LVG's first stint we endured a 6 years title drought, that speaks volumes of his legacy and the "impact" his philosophy and tactic focus had in the squad he left behind.


Aaaaand he came back with a vengeance in 2002, he made Rivaldo leave the team for free after he was one of the best players in the 2002 WC (to Milan, where he won the UCL) and got Riquelme (who he frustrated to the point to change him from star signing to loaned to Villarreal), he also sold Pepe Reina and kept Bonano as the starting GK signing Enke as the reserve (awful decision as we all now know), sold Luis Garcia (who returned a year later after an amazing season with Atletico) and got Sorin, he also got rid of a young Mikel Arteta and got washed-up Mendieta on a loan (here I really have to ). By January this team that still had a "core" of players carrying his legacy from 2 years before (Frank de Boer, Xavi, Puyol, Cocu, Kluivert and Gabri) were 20 points behind Real Madrid for the lead and 3 points above relegation, something that opened a crisis that ended with him fired and the president resigning.


In the end, his "legacy" at Barcelona was leaving the club in such a desperate state (no titles, no money and no UCL) that the president and the board had to resign, elections took place and Laporta builded a new team that went on to dominate the world, but yeah, 3 guys from LVG's era ended up being key players, so I guess that makes him responsable of our recent success

No one said he is responsible. We said he was important to Barcelona because of how he helped iniesta Xavi puypl & values. No one is here talking about finances or league positions are they? We are here solely talking about his ability to trust and have an eye for youth. In fact since this has been the case since his Ajax days - it's probably why any of the big clubs actually hire him - hardly winning anything.

So give us a break and let's us be able to talk about his eye for getting some of the talent he has or Atleast had an influence in.

Iniesta being called the best at a young age means nothing. You do know what happened to Pogba here don't you. Similarly Xavi was so close to leaving you guys.

 

[TheSweeper]

Great post but I doubt they will listen to you.

You should probably add that Van Gaal was fired in January just 6 months into his new tenure with Barca just 3 points from the relegation places. In January!

What makes you think I don't know that? Why don't you add the fact he was bought back again & was worse but still had some influence on youth?

 

[K2K]

What makes you think I don't know that? Why don't you add the fact he was bought back again & was worse but still had some influence on youth?

You don't know much about Van Gaal, do you?

His first stint was 3 years.The 6 month stint I am talking about is evidently the 2nd one.He was there for 6 months, he is only foundation there was getting rid of Rivaldo and fighting relegation.

You are evidently just making up stuff as you go now.

 

[Successful]

Spoiler: Not impressive post

His "legacy" in Barcelona, I have to "" at that

Iniesta was called up by Serra Ferrer to train with the first team 2 years before LVG's return, he was 15 at that time and already hailed as the best player in the youth system, same as Xavi, that was said to be Guardiola's succesor since he played for juveniles. Giving LVG the praise for what those 2 players have become is like saying Rijkaard "made" Lionel Messi, the fact that they gave those players the chance to play and the minutes to show how good they were just shows us they were, at least, not inept managers that couldn't recognize world class talent in a youth player when he was in their squad.

Beyond that what followed beyond LVG's era were the worst seasons this club had since Cruyff took over.


He arrived to a club that was in a good momentum after Robson's season, with a squad that was considered full of world quality players at that moment(Vitor Baia, Figo, Stoichkov, Rivaldo, Giovanni) and proven veterans (Abelardo, Ferrer, Amor, Sergi, Luis Enrique, Nadal, Pizzi) with the help of what was considered the best generation of young players the club had in their whole history (Oscar and Roger, De la Peña, Celades), this group of young players with others that failed to made the cut (Velamazan, Moreno, or Quique Alvarez) made "history" when 2 years before LVG's arrival formed a squad of 8 players formed in the youth ranks in a League match, something that hadn't happened in the last 40 years of the competition. The young players LVG inherited were hailed as our own "quinta del buitre", the one that got Butragueño and RM to consecutive UEFA cups and a 5 year reign in La Liga. It was like if LVG got Utd's class of 92' plus RVN, Ronaldo, and Ferdinand.


So, with all those pieces he obviusly got results from the start (go figure) but when he left Barcelona the first time things were... well, plain worse.

His signings were horrible and created a black hole in the club finances, Bogarde, Reiziger, Ciric, Dugarry, Ronald and Frank de Boer, Zenden, Litmanen, Simao, Dehu or Dani were players that failed to consistently deliver what should've been expected of top quality players, he lost the whole core of young players he had on his arrival and failed to replace them with other young quality beyond Xavi (that could've been considered a sure thing) and Puyol. We lost De la Peña, the Junyent brothers and Celades. After LVG's first stint we endured a 6 years title drought, that speaks volumes of his legacy and the "impact" his philosophy and tactic focus had in the squad he left behind.


Aaaaand he came back with a vengeance in 2002, he made Rivaldo leave the team for free after he was one of the best players in the 2002 WC (to Milan, where he won the UCL) and got Riquelme (who he frustrated to the point to change him from star signing to loaned to Villarreal), he also sold Pepe Reina and kept Bonano as the starting GK signing Enke as the reserve (awful decision as we all now know), sold Luis Garcia (who returned a year later after an amazing season with Atletico) and got Sorin, he also got rid of a young Mikel Arteta and got washed-up Mendieta on a loan (here I really have to ). By January this team that still had a "core" of players carrying his legacy from 2 years before (Frank de Boer, Xavi, Puyol, Cocu, Kluivert and Gabri) were 20 points behind Real Madrid for the lead and 3 points above relegation, something that opened a crisis that ended with him fired and the president resigning.


In the end, his "legacy" at Barcelona was leaving the club in such a desperate state (no titles, no money and no UCL) that the president and the board had to resign, elections took place and Laporta builded a new team that went on to dominate the world, but yeah, 3 guys from LVG's era ended up being key players, so I guess that makes him responsable of our recent success

"Only three world players from LVG era ended up being key players"

Ok, that's awful I suppose

Always impossible to have these kind of conversations with spoilt Barca fans. They see a season of winning their league, cup and CL as a complete failure if they didn't score enough goals.

And every foundation need to start from a low. Not likely to see LVG leave unless he's on a low. Here are two quotes for you to bring with you in your life:

Things need to get worse before they get better

Rome wasn't built in a day

 

[Revan]

Rome wasn't built in a day

But it was destroyed in one. And when it comes to Barca, Van Gaal (2003 spell) is more similar to Nero than to Cesar.

 

[Ishdalar]

No one said he is responsible. We said he was important to Barcelona because of how he helped iniesta Xavi puypl & values. No one is here talking about finances or league positions are they? We are here solely talking about his ability to trust and have an eye for youth. In fact since this has been the case since his Ajax days - it's probably why any of the big clubs actually hire him - hardly winning anything.

So give us a break and let's us be able to talk about his eye for getting some of the talent he has or Atleast had an influence in.

Iniesta being called the best at a young age means nothing. You do know what happened to Pogba here don't you. Similarly Xavi was so close to leaving you guys.

What happened to Pogba here is similar to what happened with Iniesta 15 years ago, Andres waited for 2 years training with the first team, he got 6 games with Van Gaal on a side that was 3 points above relegation, and he still had to wait almost 3 more years to stablish himself as a starter with Rijkaard. The only difference is that Iniesta was a humble kid that understood why his managers were giving minutes to "worse" players that happened to carry more experience and weight in the locker room while Pogba felt SAF was denying him the chance to become a star by playing another guys when it probably wasn't his time.

His eye for talent is way overrated in my opinion, he thought Rivaldo was a left winger when, in fact, he always played like a world beater from a centered position, he failed to realize Riquelme's potential until the point he wanted out and had 2 amazing seasons after that in Villarreal, he put Xavi in a more defensive position than where he has played the best years of his career, something that stigmatized his first career years to the extent, as you've said, that we almost sold him because he wasn't a proper DM

There's a difference between having an eye for young talent bringing up guys like Pedro or Busquets, that were basically nobody and turned out to be world champions and stars at the sport, and having kids "destined" for greatness and not screwing them up, but he did indeed screw up badly with De la Peña, Arteta or Luis Garcia, players that had enough talent to be Spain's elite for some years but never had his trust, even Albert Celades earned a move to Real Madrid from Celta just a year after LVG considered him "not enough" for a club that was having a harder time than Real.


His redeeming quality is that he isn't shy to give a chance to young players that earn his trust (and by earning his trust I mean not antagonizing him), but any Manager that coached Ajax, Barcelona, Bayern and United for 12 years should leave behind a couple of great players, we're talking of 4 of the best ¿5? youth systems in the world, if you can't milk anything from that in a decade you don't deserve a job near a football pitch.



And I conclude in this post with something that many people don't know, Van Gaal might've been Puyol and Xavi's first coach at Barcelona, but we owe their best versions to a guy that only coached them for 4 months, Radomir Antic.
Antic was the manager that moved Puyol from a RB to a central defender (translator needed) http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2014/05/15/actualidad/1400178520_907591.html
And he also was the first manager to put Xavi as an 8 instead of playing him as a 4 https://www.sportyou.es/noticias/antic-se-ve-responsable-de-que-xavi-sea-tan-bueno-73931

In 4 months, Antic found the right positions for Puyol and Xavi, something that LVG with his almighty eye missed to do for more than three seasons. I cringe at the thought of what Depay or Januzaj could be right now with a proper manager that recognized their strenghts, like Mou is doing with Rojo, a guy that was loathed here thanks to Van Gaal

 

[Ishdalar]

Ok, that's awful I suppose

Always impossible to have these kind of conversations with spoilt Barca fans. They see a season of winning their league, cup and CL as a complete failure if they didn't score enough goals.

And every foundation need to start from a low. Not likely to see LVG leave unless he's on a low. Here are two quotes for you to bring with you in your life:

"Spoilt Barça fans"

When I was a kid, to my friends I was a fan of an awful team, "your team has less UCL than Nottingham forest", "you sign Ronaldo and can't even keep him more than one year", "dude how can you be a fan of Barcelona? They haven't won a title for 6 years", at the same time I was seeing our arch-rival win 3 UCL's, steal Figo from us, get Zidane, I saw United win a treble in the camp nou, Sheva's Milan, Del Piero guiding Juventus and all we had for a while was Rivaldo playing injured, Luis Enrique working his ass off and Kluivert missing goals.

You think I've forgotten all those years? I remember them very clearly, in all my life the worst part about being a Barcelona fan was seeing LVG turning us into Spain and Europe's laughing stock while signing his army of dutch friends, he was so obnoxius that we had whole tv programs laughing at what he said after every game. You think I'm spoiled because I'm a Barcelona fan? Tell me about it when you go 6 years without a title and Lingard/Giroud are the best players at United, then we will be on the same level.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

To be honest he did replace the dead wood that SAF left and replaced it with rotting wood instead.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Um, that's because it was erm, the worst football at Old Trafford in a very long time. People couldn't even be arsed after a win anymore. That's because the football was sooo bad! That's why not even an FA Cup was enough to save Louis van Fraud. Remember, we were even 10 minutes away from fecking that up as wel...

What a shower of shit. Moyes' football was comfortably worse. And no we didn't come close to mucking up that FA Cup final. Even with 10 men we were still the superior team and playing proper attacking football and thouroughly deserved the win. As for why he was sacked? He didn't keep us in a champions league place like was one of his core job requirements. That was the bottom lone. The notion he was 'sacked for his shit football' is fantastical nonesense. What we have to thank for LVG being gone and replaced by Mourinho is the fortuitous Fellaini's suspension and the resultant defeat to West Ham it precipitated. Else we'd still be here, suffocated by the negativity his reign brought on the club and in here. For he missed keeping his job on goal difference. Rather than because the board truly desired change....

 

[RedPed]

What a shower of shit. Moyes' football was comfortably worse. An no we didn't come close to mucking up that final. Even with 10 men were still the superior team and playing proper attacking football and thouroughly deserved the win.As for why he was sacked? He didn't keep us in a champions league place like was one of his core job requirements. The notion he was 'sacked for his shot football' I s fantastical nonesense. What we have to thank for LVG being gone and replaced by Mourinho is fortuitous Fellaini's suspension and the resultant defeat to West Ham it precipitated. Else we'd still be here, suffocated by the negativity his reign brought on the club and in here.

Whatever man! You think Moyes' football was worse? Good for you! LVG's football was utter dross and worse for me. Even winning was a bore, apart from the Liverpool game when Slippy G lasted 38 seconds. Fact is he ain't here anymore and good riddance! I know people still haven't come to terms with it and more fool them.

It's only taken Jose 6 months to eradicate most of the nonsense that the last two clowns tried to implement here at OT. Why did it take LVG 2 years?? I guarantee you that if we were playing under van Gaal like we're playing now, he would have kept his job with an FA Cup and a 5th placed finish (only by GD). I think most fans would have wanted him to continue as they would have seen progress in how we're playing. The board would not have sacked him with the buzz around the club as it is now.

But because he was serving up that shit on a stick football week in week out, that's why he lost his job! It's not rocket science!

 

[rpg]

I bet Chelsea fans didnt create their own Mourinho credit for winning foundation thread while they are on 13 games winning run. No, anything good does to Conte.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

After "good post" was being frivolously attributed to a series of multi carriage pile-ups, finally @Ishdalar drops a few blinders well deserving of some genuine "good posts". Well played that man.

 

[Lentwood]

I think van Gaal did a decent job of arresting the decline. Mourinho could have inherited a genuine mid-table team had Moyes or A Another below par manager been given those two years. The promotion of Rashford and the signing of Martial plus qualification for the CL, winning the FA Cup and our record against the top 4 where all high points.

Ultimately i think what let van Gaal down was his recruitment. Too many good but not great players were signed. The likes of Depay, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Blind have all been phased out slowly to varying degrees under Jose and i am sure Darmian will follow shortly

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Whatever man! You think Moyes' football was worse? Good for you! LVG's football was utter dross and worse for me. Even winning was a bore, apart from the Liverpool game when Slippy G lasted 38 seconds. Fact is he ain't here anymore and good riddance! I know people still haven't come to terms with it and more fool them.

It's only taken Jose 6 months to eradicate most of the nonsense that the last two clowns tried to implement here at OT. Why did it take LVG 2 years?? I guarantee you that if we were playing under van Gaal like we're playing now, he would have kept his job with an FA Cup and a 5th placed finish (only by GD). I think most fans would have wanted him to continue as they would have seen progress in how we're playing. The board would not have sacked him with the buzz around the club as it is now.

But because he was serving up that shit on a stick football week in week out, that's why he lost his job! It's not rocket science!

Wrong. He lost his job because he didn't secure a champions league place. Just thank West Ham he didn't than this mythical position you are so happy with. With a champions league place the board would still have him here. 1000%

 

[Ali Dia]

Legacy; steadied the ship after moyes, fa cup, upgraded training facilities? failed
Champions league at group stages. Wasted huge money on dud transfers without knowing how to use them. Rejected Kroos who could have replaced Carrick Horrible ridged football.massive injury problems. Rooney still in team. Fellaini important.

Foundations: signed blind rojo and martial. Promoted Rashford and TFM. Dutch link with new scout that seems to be working out. Was here when we kept DeGea

His record of signings is much more Miss than hit when given big money at Barca and united. Total transfer market failure here bar martial and to a lesser extent blind who's also a good player in whatever setup. Rojo never looked this good under him. All the rest of his signings were playing horribly under him or had been signed before he came. Terrible transfer record. It's Not even up for debate.

I don't want to talk about LVGs style of football anymore, it didn't work. It's clear he promotes some of the best young players at massive clubs with top youth setups. Cool, most managers do that. Any youth he left behind is almost just a coincidence, the clubs had all trained these players for years before he saw them. The only truly remarkable job he did was at Ajax and what a crop of players that was! We were terrible under him and played the worst football I've ever seen at united. Thank god that's over and we finally got the right guy. Someone competent who understands how to get the job done and what the fans want and tries to strike a balance.

This last two years with LVG isn't going to bloom some footballing dynasty! We were already a footballing dynasty long before he came along as were Barcelona, Ajax and Bayern. The huge money invested in the best players for our team,huge stadium, great new management and massive support base is what will create the next really competitive team we have.

Feck just chasing top four! we are Manchester United, we should be competing for the champions league every season. we just let our standards drop for a while. What Fergie did will never be repeated but we should always have a competitive team out there and a competent manager in charge at the very least.