Oh, I agree - we should have acted when a new manager could still do something about us qualifying for the Champions League as its been blatantly obvious for months that we (probably) wouldn't - e.g. when Klopp became available or when Jose became available
LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
- Thread starter Livewire1974
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
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Aye, I'd think it will be a case of 2 sides to the coin indeed.
It's a difficult one RF. I'm not a huge fan of Mourinho - especially the antics, and I even created a thread many years ago (after the eye-gouge thing) to state that I don't ever want Mourinho managing our club.
Since things have gone belly up, and seeing all the best managers being snapped up by our rivals, I have changed that hardline stance a little bit. Considering all options, I won't mind Mourinho at our club at the moment. The foolish part of me even hopes he does change his antics and stay a bit longer etc. But let me clear, he wasn't anywhere near my first choice either. It's just all other alternatives are not available.
So I won't mind Mourinho but you can be damn sure that I, and plenty others in my boat, will start giving him shit if things go pear shaped as well.
4 days to go and the suffering will be over
I used this line too when I backed him (all the way to December), but taking a cold, hard look at facts, this doesn't add up. I'm a consultant, so like dispassionate analysis.
Yes, the squad was in poor shape when Fergie left. He'd taken every last ounce out of the players and a fair few were on their last legs. BUT, that could just as easily have been said of Chelsea too when Jose re-entered (same time). For all that Chelsea have had a horror season, hindsight shows that Jose was indeed asking for signings to strengthen and was denied those. It's not something one could not anticipate. LvG on the other hand signed a host of players, pronounced himself satisfied and at various times in the season even talked up our title chances before everything went t*ts-up. For him to then moan about a light squad, injuries etc. is farcical. To expect Schweini and Carrick, given their recent injury records, to stay fit all season would be moronic. Same for Jones as well. Also, for all those pointing to the injury of Shaw, how does it not strike anyone as foolhardy for a manager to blame his season's collapse on an injury to an teenaged left-back? That too, one who had not had a stellar season last time around and therefore should have had some cover anyway!
Darmian - injured? More like went to sh*te after a bit, not helped by the CB situation. Blind - he trusted a slow-as-f*ck (albeit very intelligent) midfielder as CB starter for the season based on the fact that he's left-footed. Surely that was a sign of oncoming senility? And then there's the striker situation. He said at the start of the season that Martial was a signing for his successor. If he meant that, it shows he didn't anticipate Martial having any real impact this season. Imagine that, for a moment. Imagine our frontline without Martial. We'd have had Rooney...and, ummm...Rooney. Januzaj, perhaps? Or did he mean to use Young as striker? He'd made it clear he didn't rate Wilson and had sold Hernandez as well as RvP. How the shuddering f*ck he expected us to compete is beyond me (and Memphis was not bought as a striker, but a winger, so no, he doesn't count as a replacement).
All teams rebuild and for 250Mn, you'd assume a team could be built quite rapidly. Don't forget that LvG has had 2 years to build a team in his image, not one. I'm not going to harp about Soton (they finished below us) but once again, look around Europe and you'll find that teams do indeed bring in 2-4 players a summer quite often and make it work. LvG spent wrongly in some cases and then compounded it by not knowing what to do with players later. He just hasn't got the team settled into a style either, despite all his lectures on "filosofee". The best managers impose a style and with LvG, we've gone from pillar to post searching for an identity and never quite got there. People will talk about slow possession, but there too, he hasn't stuck to one style. From 3-5-2 to 4-2-3-1 to 4-1-4-1 to 4-1-3-2 etc. etc. he's tried a whole host of formations in the hope - rather than the belief - that something will stick. It hasn't. Each large / major defeat / string of defeats has seen us try some new bizarre trick. Safe to say that most have failed. Probably the only thing he's done consistently is substitute one full-back for another... Jesus wept...
What if Spurs and Poch finish outside the top four?
I think plenty of fans weren't happy with our style of play even when we were top of the league. I've wanted him gone well before this season started, in fact I think I gave up around last January. As for Mourinho, he'll get an easier ride than he would've had he taken over from Fergie.
Your post makes too much sense. Hopefully Woody is not too far up LvG backside to see sense and get rid of him ASAP. I want him fired before the FA cup final, just so he can be humiliated. I absolutely detest his ego.
he keeps going on about "we need fast creative players" like someone else caused this problem. He brought in ADM and shunted him about and did nothing to help him adapt. We got Martial and we can only be grateful that his individual quality and drive has brought him success. Meanwhile he still sticks with this boring slow style of play... smh. I cant stand him
Apparently LVG has been getting a 'hard time' from United fans, Moyes as well? Well gee willikers, we gotta be easy on these failures in the future, wouldn't wanna be judging them on their performances or anything, christ it's not like the club is paying them millions to perform a specific task or anything right?
The utter irony of the most pro-LVG poster after KinderVangleBiscuits, who has every now and then popped in with jibes about the impatience and petulance of those that want Van Gaal gone as quickly as possible and bitterly defends any comments or actions that make LVG look like a failure, coming into the thread to proclaim that this devilish cohort of United supporters 'better give Mourinho a hard time' just like we apparently did to the last two failed managerial regimes, oh lord, that's just too much to take. Let's hope that Mourinho is also a failure so we can be 'pathetic, classless fans' towards him as well, am I doing it right?
Van Gaal has not been unlucky, he doesn't have a mystical 'long term plan' and he doesn't have a single fact or argument on his side that would justify him staying at the club one more day after the FA Cup final. Finishing 2 points above Moyes' Mediocrity, mid table in goals scored, relegation level statistics in offensive terms, chances created, shots on goal, passes forward, a terrible, death inducing play style that has encumbered countless players and made our team look like utter shyte. Not to mention failing to achieve top 4 despite City falling over themselves to give us an opening, in a season where City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool have all fluttered and failed in the league, where Spurs and Leicester finished above us. All of this with the added hilarity of spending untold amounts in the transfer market and having two seasons to fully implement and perfect HIS style with HIS squad.
I flat out refuse to believe anyone could seriously in good mind want another season of this, they are either a complete WUM, taking the piss, a poorly disguised rival fan or suffering an extreme case of Stockholm Syndrome.
The utter irony of the most pro-LVG poster after KinderVangleBiscuits, who has every now and then popped in with jibes about the impatience and petulance of those that want Van Gaal gone as quickly as possible and bitterly defends any comments or actions that make LVG look like a failure, coming into the thread to proclaim that this devilish cohort of United supporters 'better give Mourinho a hard time' just like we apparently did to the last two failed managerial regimes, oh lord, that's just too much to take. Let's hope that Mourinho is also a failure so we can be 'pathetic, classless fans' towards him as well, am I doing it right?
Van Gaal has not been unlucky, he doesn't have a mystical 'long term plan' and he doesn't have a single fact or argument on his side that would justify him staying at the club one more day after the FA Cup final. Finishing 2 points above Moyes' Mediocrity, mid table in goals scored, relegation level statistics in offensive terms, chances created, shots on goal, passes forward, a terrible, death inducing play style that has encumbered countless players and made our team look like utter shyte. Not to mention failing to achieve top 4 despite City falling over themselves to give us an opening, in a season where City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool have all fluttered and failed in the league, where Spurs and Leicester finished above us. All of this with the added hilarity of spending untold amounts in the transfer market and having two seasons to fully implement and perfect HIS style with HIS squad.
I flat out refuse to believe anyone could seriously in good mind want another season of this, they are either a complete WUM, taking the piss, a poorly disguised rival fan or suffering an extreme case of Stockholm Syndrome.
Who are you referring to here out of interest? And what is the irony?
This, I agree with.
Spot on!! Totally correct analysis of vangle"s time here. On the left foot , right foot thingy. Ain't Memphis right footed? Why on earth can't he try playing him wide right once in a while?
Why mainly play Mata wide when his best spot is behind the striker? Last night was the exception to the rule and he seemed so much more effective in that position. But I bet that on Saturday he'll be back on the wing and it will be Rojo and darmian as our fullbacks.
At times I think he makes it hard for himself!
I expect this to carry on into the summer for a few weeks at least.
I was pleased when we snatched LVG from Spurs and was expecting a completely different managing style to what we have had to suffer, but if it's not working, which it clearly isn't then he needs to go.
I wanted and like many thought Mourinho would take over from Ferguson so was gobsmacked when Moyes got it and it went exactly like I expected it too, unfortunately I think because of our dithering board we missed out on some top managers and lvg was the best option but Moyes and lvg have spouted so much bullsh1t and lowered expectations so much I actually hate both of them.
So if Mourinho comes in and does exactly the same, spouting the same crap and blaming everyone but himself I will be on his back as much as I have been with the last two.
The thing is Mourinho doesn't have the same negative personality as those two, he's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I would put money on him not coming out with crap like expectations are far too high having spent 300m over two years as he's a serial winner having won the league only last year, he may and probably will come out with some nonsense but not a defeatist attitude those two have.
Great post.
Some people like KinderVangleBiscuits want this club to have this self entitlement like its an identity of the club, we don't sack managers. But when clubs put themselves on a pedestal, it will always end with them looking up on other clubs who do things in the modern world, this club is still learning how to work in the world of 2016, not 1988. Well when we had a guy like fergie that ticked the boxes of the fans expectations of the club, he had the drive, the will and vision that wanted united to be on top of the mountain, and created a fantastic never say die spirit in how we played the game, so when he delivers?? why would the club sack a guy? that won trophy's, and played an exciting brand of football, it made sense not to sack him. But then when idiots like VG and Moyes come around, where on one hand Moyes was so out of his depth, sacked backroom staff fergie put in place, and told guys like ferdinand to defend like phil jagielka, there is a problem with this manager bringing in midtable methods to a championship winning team he can't evolve, because he does not know how to. Then we go to another extreme, the club appoints a self centered narcissist, who gets off having more spirit picking fights with players and the press with nothing to back it up, only what I done in the 90's and making the job for players so miserable, when football is a career dream if you are good at it, VG has ways of making a football's career a living hell, ask Zlatan? VG has methods so out of date he makes stuff up has he goes along, he goes on to say we will win the league etc etc, then says the fans expectations are too high. So the fans have a right to be angry, when 2 managers so out of depth in the jobs, where one knew nothing, the other knew something when our internet was on a 3 stage phone connection.
If we sacked fergie in 2000 because we failed to win another european cup, yes we can call ourselves a sacking club
LvG has created history for me, it's the first time in my lifetime that United have finished 5th
You know what mate - it doesn't make any difference!
If Mourinho were spending £250M, in 2 seasons, he be telling all and sundry that he is trying to win the league.
He won't be talking about top 4, unless things go horribly wrong.
Now that the season is done, surely we need a fresh poll?
He does.
It makes no sense for him to remain next season, it's just one reason after another why he should be sacked and surely it is inevitable. If he were to stay it would be a total waste of time, it's unlikely things would improve and everyone is just waiting to turn on him so he would almost certainly be sacked before end of season anyway.
Only reservation I have is I don't trust the board and I don't think it is impossible he will keep his job by default basically because they don't knwo where else to turn if they don't appoint mourinho. Moyes and LVG both got the job by default and I think they both stayed as long as they did because there was no clue who to turn to.
Only reservation I have is I don't trust the board and I don't think it is impossible he will keep his job by default basically because they don't knwo where else to turn if they don't appoint mourinho. Moyes and LVG both got the job by default and I think they both stayed as long as they did because there was no clue who to turn to.
Aye I know. I don't understand it but such is the beauty of life I guess.
Sack the idiot pls
not the first one to say this, but also his transition excuse is bullshit because he had two years to shape the team to his liking with hundreds of millions available to spend. yet we still failed to reach top 4 in the year where other top clubs were also shooting themselves in the foot.
just look at leicester ffs, against all odds they won the league just a year after managerial change. if that's an outlier there's also pochettino just this season who's improved their team in 2 years.
just look at leicester ffs, against all odds they won the league just a year after managerial change. if that's an outlier there's also pochettino just this season who's improved their team in 2 years.
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He's still the manager
We need to count ourselves lucky we've got a better manager than Klopp
We need to count ourselves lucky we've got a better manager than Klopp
Just a matter of different perspectives I guess.
Yeah. The world would be boring if we all agreed on everything!
We're suppose to disagree JeffI almost typed that at the end of my response, well said
His press conference yesterday killed me, all that stuff about being still in transition, and yet at the same time admitting that teams have done well this season without such a transition... I can't take much more of this.
The ONLY thing to be said for the transition and rebuilding argument is that none of the other clubs have had to deal with such a culture shock like SAF leaving.
The man literally was the club for 27 years. Everything it comprises of stemmed from him during his time in charge. The effects of removing that are still going to be felt for a long, long time. The heartbeat of the club, the brain of the club, the soul of the club, ripped out completely with no thought for the damage that would be left behind.
It took 26 years for us to win the league again after Sir Matt's last, we were relegated, we came back up, we had to endure Liverpool's dominance and then we finally got back to where we, as United fans believe we belong.
Things happen a lot quicker nowadays and managers don't have as much time but I suspect short of Jose there is nobody with the ego big enough to carry us through the culture shock properly and even now I think perhaps Jose's glimmer has faded a bit too much with what's happened recently.
We're all united as fans in thinking we don't want to turn into Liverpool but I think after a reign such as SAF's and the success we had over such a sustained period, it's quite frankly inevitable. That doesn't mean we can't get back to where we were though, football, like life is cyclical. Our time will come again, but we're gonna have to wait a while for it I reckon.
The man literally was the club for 27 years. Everything it comprises of stemmed from him during his time in charge. The effects of removing that are still going to be felt for a long, long time. The heartbeat of the club, the brain of the club, the soul of the club, ripped out completely with no thought for the damage that would be left behind.
It took 26 years for us to win the league again after Sir Matt's last, we were relegated, we came back up, we had to endure Liverpool's dominance and then we finally got back to where we, as United fans believe we belong.
Things happen a lot quicker nowadays and managers don't have as much time but I suspect short of Jose there is nobody with the ego big enough to carry us through the culture shock properly and even now I think perhaps Jose's glimmer has faded a bit too much with what's happened recently.
We're all united as fans in thinking we don't want to turn into Liverpool but I think after a reign such as SAF's and the success we had over such a sustained period, it's quite frankly inevitable. That doesn't mean we can't get back to where we were though, football, like life is cyclical. Our time will come again, but we're gonna have to wait a while for it I reckon.
Are you like 2? Moyes took us to 7th.
So not 5th then?
7th isn't 5th.
I like the way the MEN puts it - "Ed Woodward's decision is now a straight choice between Van Gaal and the Man Utd fans". Just about sums it up perfectly.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/man-utd-news-woodward-decision-11351243
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/man-utd-news-woodward-decision-11351243
I don't think Ed or the Glazers give a flying feck about the fans. If they did, VG would have been out in Decemeber.
I think it's a decision between risking missing out on the top 4+Adidas revenue by persisting with VG and getting a top manager not well liked by some of the members of the board . This is why I am fairly confident that VG will be sacked for Mourinho after the cup final.
But if the succession had been planned better we could have moved that "transition and rebuilding" timeframe up (at least a whole season) by never appointing David Moyes which was simply farcical!
… but "now" is the end of the season isn't it?
hopes he reads this Saturday evening
If you've seen 7th, what's worse in seeing 5th other than arguing semantics for the sake of arguing.
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