LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

Do you want LVG sacked?


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I have other objections to Mourinho too, my only point is that he's not the sure fire option people seem to think he is. He's also more familiar with the EPL than Louie, and isn't faced with taking over a club that's been used to one glorious man's rule for 26 years. People's insistence about LvG's incompetence are ludicrous.

Nobody is. But just because nobody is guaranteed to success doesnt mean that we have to put up with this shite for another year.

Well we are on course for our worst goal scoring tally in the PL and may just about finish above Moyes' side having spent 250 billion, if thats not incompetence, then I dont know what is?
 
Well we are on course for our worst goal scoring tally in the PL and may just about finish above Moyes' side having spent 250 billion, if thats not incompetence, then I dont know what is?

I work in a very technically complex building run by a bureaucracy. When something breaks down, it's usually caused by a confluence of problems. The engineers are rather useless though, and just turn up, fix the easiest thing they can find that's fixable and then disappear again.

To put it another way, the fact that we changed managers and spent money and ended up in the same place could suggest we had two bad managers, but it could also suggest that the problem lies elsewhere. The emphasis on promoting youth this season instead of buying big names suggests that someone somewhere agrees.
 
Nobody is. But just because nobody is guaranteed to success doesnt mean that we have to put up with this shite for another year.

Well we are on course for our worst goal scoring tally in the PL and may just about finish above Moyes' side having spent 250 billion, if thats not incompetence, then I dont know what is?

All the teams in the league were ultimately trumped by a team that wasn't in the EPL two seasons ago. Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, United, there are a lot of teams that seem incompetent with regards to spending and what they've achieved, compared to this minnow.

And let's not go crazy.. 250 billion? ;)
 
All the teams in the league were ultimately trumped by a team that wasn't in the EPL two seasons ago. Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, United, there are a lot of teams that seem incompetent with regards to spending and what they've achieved, compared to this minnow.

So, because LCFC won the title, we should allow LVG to get a "by" for the poor performances this season?
I've heard of many excuses, but this one takes the biscuit and trumps the "he is building the foundations so that our next manager can be successful".
 
So, because LCFC won the title, we should allow LVG to get a "by" for the poor performances this season?
I've heard of many excuses, but this one takes the biscuit and trumps the "he is building the foundations so that our next manager can be successful".

Way to make a straw man. I never said that. I'm just saying that you could make the case for a shit ton of managers underperforming, and football isn't as easy as this and other forums' FM geniuses like to think it is. Especially when you're taking over for a man who's been synonymous with managing all aspects of the club since the flippin' 80s.

I'm just saying that the post-Louis times might go differently to how you imagine. Moyes, incompetent. LvG incompetent. I wouldn't be too surprised to hear the forum say the same of Mourinho after a year or two, if he finds the job difficult too.
 
Whoever we recruit, we're already losing ground to our rivals, who know who will be managing them & presumably are planning recruitment as well. Purely on the underachievement in terms of performances LvG has to go. Even if he comes good next season, it'll be his last. We need to act now, or ideally have already acted.

Approaching a game vs. Norwich, we've got our fingers crossed! Not where we should be at all.
 
Don't think you mean it. We'd all continue to watch despite being pissed off at Woody and Vangle, because it's Manchester United and when you've dedicated many years to the club, you can't just stop caring/bothering. It'd be a fecking joke if he's kept on, but I'm sure all of us would watch despite the frustration making some say otherwise.




Definitely. I expect us to sack Van Gaal after the FA Cup final regardless of the remaining games' outcome. It's probably down to wishful thinking, though.
I think a lot of us will still follow United, but if he is still in charge a lot will not step inside OT until he isn't.
 
Apologies

@Eriku sorry I upset you. The thought of Van Gaal staying obviously has effected me more then I know.

My hide's thick enough to cope, but I appreciate it. Consider it forgotten :)

Just to add one last thing: do people think Keane suffers mediocrity, or worse, incompetence gladly? In an interview he just said that LvG might land 4th and win the FA cup, and if he does he ought to be allowed to see out his contract. It's clearly not as cut and dry as some people in this thread would have you believe, and you don't have to be blinkered, an idiot or in love with Louis to not want to jump on the Mourinho-train.
 
My hide's thick enough to cope, but I appreciate it. Consider it forgotten :)

Just to add one last thing: do people think Keane suffers mediocrity, or worse, incompetence gladly? In an interview he just said that LvG might land 4th and win the FA cup, and if he does he ought to be allowed to see out his contract. It's clearly not as cut and dry as some people in this thread would have you believe, and you don't have to be blinkered, an idiot or in love with Louis to not want to jump on the Mourinho-train.
What do you think will happen in LVG's final year with us if he stays?
 
My hide's thick enough to cope, but I appreciate it. Consider it forgotten :)

Just to add one last thing: do people think Keane suffers mediocrity, or worse, incompetence gladly? In an interview he just said that LvG might land 4th and win the FA cup, and if he does he ought to be allowed to see out his contract. It's clearly not as cut and dry as some people in this thread would have you believe, and you don't have to be blinkered, an idiot or in love with Louis to not want to jump on the Mourinho-train.
I think Keane would say something like that as he has shown himself to be a shit manager too and calling for a sacking isn't going to benefit him when he does bad in his next job. Most pundits who want to be managers do this. Gary neville kept saying we should keep Moyes and give him time and if he said otherwise people would have brought it up when he was trying to destroy valencia
 
Nobody is going to have any unrealistic expectations anymore, for one thing. It'll be the first season I can remember going into it assuming we would be in a battle for Top 4. I mean, we have ended up in that situation for the last few years, but going into the season Im always rather more optimistic than that.
 
What do you think will happen in LVG's final year with us if he stays?

Don't know. I would imagine we'd do better than we did this season, and we have clearly looked way better the past few months than we did for the first half of the season.

I think Keane would say something like that as he has shown himself to be a shit manager too and calling for a sacking isn't going to benefit him when he does bad in his next job. Most pundits who want to be managers do this. Gary neville kept saying we should keep Moyes and give him time and if he said otherwise people would have brought it up when he was trying to destroy valencia

You really think Keane is playing that sort of game? I don't know the man, but that doesn't strike me as a very Keane thing to do.
 
Don't know. I would imagine we'd do better than we did this season, and we have clearly looked way better the past few months than we did for the first half of the season.



You really think Keane is playing that sort of game? I don't know the man, but that doesn't strike me as a very Keane thing to do.
Yeah I do. He was also one of the people claiming Moyes should have got more time despite how much of a disaster he was. It's clear to see why they say it
 
Yeah I do. He was also one of the people claiming Moyes should have got more time despite how much of a disaster he was. It's clear to see why they say it

Fair enough, I think Keane's more the kind to call it like he sees it, even if I disagreed with him when he said Moyes should get more time.
 
Perhaps but then again this is one of the reasons, if not the main reason, why his philosophy works only in glimpses and he's found himself in his current predicament... hoping for the teams above us in the PL table to completely feck up things so he can crawl into fourth place and with the vast majority of the fan base wanting him gone asap.

The need for a 20+ league goals forward is more than evident. Since LvG found out, halfway through last season, that van Persie can't be that man anymore, he's been moaning about it himself. Yet, he chose not to address the issue but to go into the season with Rooney as the only senior forward in the squad. Right now, Griezmann is maybe the hottest forward in the world, he won't come here just to be shoved into the wings if captain Rooney isn't pleased with his new midfield role and/or LvG doesn't consider Griezmann his ideal #10.

Which brings me to the Rooney issue, someone has to find a way to give him enough playing time to please him but at the same time create a side that gradually will become less and less dependent on him for goals and creativity in the attacking third. LvG's master plan is to turn him into the linchpin of our midfield, something that will probably create more problems than the ones it will solve in the near future. I don't see LvG having any kind of intention to sell Rooney. Instead of that, he considers giving a contract extension to the other player whom he doesn't know how to utilize... Mata.

He also had a whole summer to sign a ball playing CB. He didn't and converted Blind into a CB. The latter seems to be the third player, after DDG and Rooney, with a secured place in the starting lineup. LvG isn't the most easy-going person in the football world and i guess he wants at least one of his countrymen (and a player he signed himself) with an important role on the pitch. So, the chances are that Blind-Smalling will be our main partnership at the back should LvG runs down his contract.

As for Kante, Woodard bought him a defensive minded b2b midfielder with exquisite stamina levels in Morgan last season and LvG has absolutely no clue what to do with him. I can't see how buying a second one would make things any better as far as the implementation of the infamous philosophy is concerned.

No, LvG needs to go. Not because he's a bad manager, no one can deny his credentials and his history in the game. Because after endless changes of formations, numerous experiments with tactics and players' positions, he looks like a man who's run out of good ideas. He's one step away from retirement and he doesn't look like he cares about making the crucial decisions (Rooney, Mata, spend big on a midfielder, a CB, a winger and a forward) which will affect the club's future. And after two whole seasons he's bored the fans to death and he looks tired himself. And we can't get him Neymar and Muller and make things easier for him.

My hypothetical scenario admittedly poses conditions which are extremely unlikely to come to pass and I do agree that LVG has to go. But if somehow Greizmann+Hummels+Kante minus Rooney were to happen I actually do believe LVG could make that refreshed squad work brilliantly.

The Rooney problem is a ridiculously serious problem for the club and slotting him into midfield just isn't going to work regardless of whether the manager were Guardiola, Klopp or Mourinho. LVG gave Rooney his chance at striker and then as a support striker but his legs are shot and he couldn't pull it off. A footballer with shot legs has no chance of being a commanding midfielder in the EPL.

If you can assume for the moment that we no longer have the Rooney albatross and if you assume we solve the support striker problem with Greizmann (we've been talking about him for two years now so he's no flavor-of-the-month), the CB problem with Hummels (the same) and the DCM problem with Kante (ok, flavor-of-the-month, but oh my what an add he'd be) it would be pretty hard for even LVG to screw that up.

The point of the thought exercise is to prepare ourselves for the possibility Woody will break out the checkbook for genuinely top players at three of our key positions of need AND if we somehow offloaded Rooney, the board might just stick to their guns and keep LVG. And if all that comes to pass we have to decide what matters more: having the caliber of talent that we've always wanted but haven't had since the days of Ronaldo/Tevez/Rooney or moaning about the manager who's done no better than muddle through in his first two seasons with talent that most of us would acknowledge has been several notches below the 07/08 side.
 
Fair enough, I think Keane's more the kind to call it like he sees it, even if I disagreed with him when he said Moyes should get more time.

I can see why he thought that as there was a big transitional period ahead. Not saying Moyes was right or wrong but he did have a long term contract and in hindsight for him he wrongly took a long term approach. If he had spent what LVG has he would have done better than LVG
 
My hypothetical scenario admittedly poses conditions which are extremely unlikely to come to pass and I do agree that LVG has to go. But if somehow Greizmann+Hummels+Kante minus Rooney were to happen I actually do believe LVG could make that refreshed squad work brilliantly.

The Rooney problem is a ridiculously serious problem for the club and slotting him into midfield just isn't going to work regardless of whether the manager were Guardiola, Klopp or Mourinho. LVG gave Rooney his chance at striker and then as a support striker but his legs are shot and he couldn't pull it off. A footballer with shot legs has no chance of being a commanding midfielder in the EPL.

If you can assume for the moment that we no longer have the Rooney albatross and if you assume we solve the support striker problem with Greizmann (we've been talking about him for two years now so he's no flavor-of-the-month), the CB problem with Hummels (the same) and the DCM problem with Kante (ok, flavor-of-the-month, but oh my what an add he'd be) it would be pretty hard for even LVG to screw that up.

The point of the thought exercise is to prepare ourselves for the possibility Woody will break out the checkbook for genuinely top players at three of our key positions of need AND if we somehow offloaded Rooney, the board might just stick to their guns and keep LVG. And if all that comes to pass we have to decide what matters more: having the caliber of talent that we've always wanted but haven't had since the days of Ronaldo/Tevez/Rooney or moaning about the manager who's done no better than muddle through in his first two seasons with talent that most of us would acknowledge has been several notches below the 07/08 side.
The thing about your hypothetical scenario, which is fair enough as a thought experiment, is it blurs the lines of managerial responsibility. BY that I mean, it implies that Rooney being in the squad is a decision that has been imposed on Van Gaal. But he is the manager, if he thinks moving Rooney on or dropping him is what it will take to get us back where we should be, he should do it. The only other possibility I can think of, which I have floated before but most people dismissed, is that he may have it in his contract that he plays a certain number of games when he is fit, or something like that. It would be unprecedented (I think) but that doesnt make it impossible. And Woodward has shown he is willing to do things differently, as evidenced by his breaking new ground on the commercial side of things. But if you discount that possibility - as I said, most people do, and I also think it is unlikely, tho possible - then Rooney being in the squad, especially now, in Van Gaal's second season, and Rooney playing every game if he is fit, and almost never even being subbed - that is absolutely Van Gaal's decision. And the players we brought in - those are the players he wanted. And the ones he let go are the ones he wanted rid of. So these thought experiments which separate the manager and the players, and say would you want him with them, or this other guy with these other players, is meaningless in any real sense, other than as a thought experiment. In fact, if you want shot of Rooney, there is more chance of that from a manager who has not demonstrated his total unwillingness to drop him.

I am not arguing against anything youve said here by the way, Im just thinking out loud in response to reading your post.
 
Another issue for Ed Woodward and the United board to consider is the future of assistant manager Ryan Giggs.

The former Welsh winger would consider leaving if he is overlooked as Van Gaal's successor and United are wary of losing a long-standing link to past successes.

Isnt that what the club museum is for?
 
Jose Mourinho refuses to wait another year for Manchester United as club staff expect Louis van Gaal to STAY this summer

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3575247/Jose-Mourinho-refuses-wait-year-Manchester-United-club-staff-expect-Louis-van-Gaal-STAY-summer.html
33DEEC8F00000578-3575247-image-m-9_1462456754562.jpg
 
The point of the thought exercise is to prepare ourselves for the possibility Woody will break out the checkbook for genuinely top players at three of our key positions of need AND if we somehow offloaded Rooney, the board might just stick to their guns and keep LVG. And if all that comes to pass we have to decide what matters more: having the caliber of talent that we've always wanted but haven't had since the days of Ronaldo/Tevez/Rooney or moaning about the manager who's done no better than muddle through in his first two seasons with talent that most of us would acknowledge has been several notches below the 07/08 side.

If that scenario actually happens, Woodward should receive a God-like status within the club and deservedly so. If he manages to land Griezmann-Hummels-Kante to OT (most likely) without CL football to offer but by magically convincing them to join what seems to be a very problematic first team and play under a manager who has made little to none progress in two whole seasons, he would definitely be the best thing that has happened to this club since Busby and Ferguson.

I'm not trying to have a dig at you, i just believe that the image a club wants to project, the manager, the state of the squad and the possible transfer targets are extremely interdependent. Right now we want to establish ourselves as a non sacking club that likes to develop talented youngsters instead of buying ready-made products and wants to plan for the future. There's nothing wrong with that per se but when you're looking at it from the pov of an outsider, the context is somewhat different. When Bayern Munich, who are toying with the Bundesliga, get Ancelotti, passing by the opportunity to appoint Mourinho (or keeping LvG at the helm) doesn't look good in general.

If Hummels wanted to be the leader of a young team, he would have stayed at BvB. But at the age of 28 he handed in a transfer request and he wants to go to Bayern Munich because that's where the trophies will probably go in Germany. Grieamann might have a champions league medal around his neck by the end of May. Why should he join a club that can't even offer him CL football?

These players care about two things (besides money): enjoying their football and challenging for all major honors. We can offer none of these things atm. We can only offer the high wages. If we had a strong first team, maybe these players would consider coming here. The other thing we can do is appoint a new manager (doesn't necessarily have to be Jose), "sell" a fresh start in order to attract world class players and show the outside world that we care about the present as much as for the future. It will need a lot of persuading to make world class players come here to endure a year of LvG with a high possibility of Giggs becoming the next manager. And the mix of young, talented but inexperienced youngsters and underachieving senior players that is our squad isn't helping things at all.
 
who are we meant to take seriously

It seems every single link posted someone will right away rubbish it

Does it have to be the BBC? Who might I add seem to get plenty wrong too
I don't think anyone on here has contemplated the possibility of LvG staying, so any news that he could stay is instantly rubbished, whoever the source is.
 
Jose Mourinho refuses to wait another year for Manchester United as club staff expect Louis van Gaal to STAY this summer

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3575247/Jose-Mourinho-refuses-wait-year-Manchester-United-club-staff-expect-Louis-van-Gaal-STAY-summer.html

So are we expecting him to stay out of work for a whole year then? Strange story. If we wanted him as manager we'd hire him in the summer. I'm sure we could persuade LVG to stay on another couple of years if we wanted.
 
Fair enough, I think Keane's more the kind to call it like he sees it, even if I disagreed with him when he said Moyes should get more time.

Keane wants to get back into management. A younger Keane would be the first leading the protests against Moyes or LvG. However, he's become a lot more savvy. He'd be a complete idiot to talk against managers right now
 
I don't think anyone on here has contemplated the possibility of LvG staying, so any news that he could stay is instantly rubbished, whoever the source is.
I have, in my fecking nightmares.
 
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