Being too extreme, most managers given the boot are given it because the team is rudderless, so a change is a necessity. If you believe United are rudderless, then great, maybe you can give some evidence. I do not believe they are rudderless.By that logic, every team in the world who has ever sacked a manager mid-season are run by idiots, yet only at United we have the calm leadership of Woodward to see through all that and keep LVG at the helm?
LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
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Probably, we don't know, so we are all making assumptions. I prefer to believe that no PR is bad if it is for the right decision.
Another reason I am not holding my breath for the Jose rumours. I do not believe the United hierarchy are that classless.
They spoke to Van Gaal when Moyes was still here and the rumours are too strong to be made up. They would have denied it by now like they did with the 'meeting pep in paris' story.
LVG will be gone in the summer for sure
I would love to have evidence that they spoke to LVG when Moyes was still manager. He was gone pretty much after top 4 was gone. I doubt a decision was made before that. But then again I don't believe most people are twats, could be wrong.
None of these should be considered impressive or even the standard expectations for us, we've beaten a few rubbish teams in the cup, are back to being a 'going for top 4' also ran and even being in the Europa is a laughable 'positive'.
We've had maybe 4 or 5 decent halves this calendar year, hardly an 'upturn', just three league games ago was another pathetic home loss to a midtable team, there is no consistency or progressive improvement here, to take just two games during our run since Jan 1st where we were 'better' compared to our standard putrid efforts is the very definition of cherry picking so forgive others for not acting overly positive.
We are where we are because the teams above us have been better. If you're going to just use the last two games as the barometer for 'who's in better form' then I'm sure literally every team could use that method during a random 2 game spell in some desperate attempt to make things seem better than they actually are, in spite of that Spurs have won their last 4, 7 of their last 9 and look a far more balanced, well managed team doing great defensively and have some real match winners( and are 2nd now), Leicester are on a monster run and we aren't anywhere near them, Arsenal are having their usual 2nd half collapse but they will do what they always do and get top 4 and City have been utterly underwhelming but are still a far better team than us in terms of personnel, and it's incredibly hard to see them falling behind us of all teams.
Sorry but this is utter nonsense that has been spouted since the beginning of Moyes' reign as an excuse for the persistent managerial incompetence and rubbish performances, what we've been seeing since the start of 13/14 right up to today is nothing compared to Fergie's last season where we were a risk taking, high scoring team that had great mental strength and could get big results at important times in the season. We've seen nothing on a consistent basis that resembles this and have since been served up tumescent football that has succeeded in us declining from perennial contenders and title winners to a 'top 4' team in spite of the astronomical amount spent. And I'm sure we could all 'see something' that we want to if we look hard enough, even if it completely contradicts the overall picture that has been obvious to most on here this season.
Didn't they only keep him until top 4 was gone so they didn't have to pay him too much compensation money?
De Telegraaf reported that a United delegation had met with LVG after Moyes got knocked out by Bayern. This was in late march/early april I think
I do not think I said going for top 4 is acceptable. I am countering the comment there is no way in hell we are going to make top 4 or win a cup. Why is pessimism more acceptable than optimism.
You have not convinced me about the up turn this year. You are free to have your view. I see it in the movement and the passing, maybe you don't. I have enjoyed the games more in 2016.
Nobody is doubting the teams above us are rightly where they deserve to be, but there is also a view that they are also having problems, Arsenal 1 win in 5, City getting tanked by Leicester at home. What makes it so certain they are not going to drop points. It is the submissive nature of some fans that is amazing. As for our own performances we can only play who is in front of us, the fact so many on here voted we would lose to them reflects the lack of rationality in their voting.
You need to look at a few end of season reviews if you think it is only since LVG came that we have played some tumescent football. Under Fergie many a time we got played off the park only for someone like Ronaldo to bail us out. Or just look at our performances against City at the emptihad. It is not institutionalized, but to make out it is just LVG is rewriting history.
Not sure. United being cheapskate, who would have thought.
Been shouting about this point all season; yes we aren't great but the whole league has regressed at the top. The Fact that Leicester can turn over the champions and City (the favourites for the title this season), a year before being rock bottom at the same point; not to mention Tottenham (serial bottle jobs) challenging for the title, says more about the mental strength of the so called top teams.
If you look our results early in the season, they looked positive, their were blips, but we were bobbing along nicely. The wheels have fallen off a bit in an attacking sense, but with factors like Luke Shaws broken leg, another defensive injury crisis and the gross under performance of Memphis (a new signing that everyone on here wanted), they are completely out of LVGs control.
The second point I emphatically agree with as well. Towards the end of Fergie, I hated the football we were playing. All we used to do is get up to the edge of the box and shift it wide/to an overlapping fullback and hope a cross could come in and find someone. It was very underwhelming stuff.
0 wins in the whole of December while going from 1st to 6th shows we are heading in the right direction?
The top 4 are nothing special but yet we still can't get anywhere near them that's the problem. Arsenal 1 win in 5 and going through supposedly their worst spell and yet we've only managed to cut their lead on us by 2 points.
The fact that it's February and we need to defy the odds to even make top 4 is nothing but failure from LVG.
The results early on in the season were positive but many on here could see they were unsustainable given the few chances we were creating and so it proved as we crashed in December.
I think everyone has agreed that December was a month to forget. Very poor.
By your own admission, prior to that we were 1st. So we couldn't have been too rudderless. Not good to watch, but that is where there is so much hypocrisy on here. One minute it's results that matter, then it is style and entertainment.
We've had some style and some entertainment for about five minutes. If we keep on playing in the same vein, generally positive, attack minded football (as perceived by a majority on here) but without the results – then, yes, you can start accusing people of being hypocritical (provided they're actually among those who claimed style was more important than results – not everyone did that).
You are not wrong about that, that's why I prefer to concentrate on playing well, which isn't about style and entertainment but just achieving what we planned to do and I actually find it interesting. What I don't like about LVG is that we fail to do what we want to do.
As for rudderless (see above): Well, at the height of our terrible spell in December, we were looking at a string of horrible performances (and results) and a manager who pretty much threw his hands up and said he was out of ideas. That's pretty rudderless for my money.
What Woodward is doing presently, as seen by many, is one out of two: a) he's sticking with LVG based on a thorough analysis of the situation, secure in the belief that he will turn this around and finish the season in some style or b) sticking with LVG because he doesn't want to sack him (and/or because he doesn't want to pay for sacking him prior to a Moyes style clause being triggered).
The third alternative is that Woody has given up on 4th (or considers this a pure bonus) and doesn't think there's any point in replacing LVG before the end of the season.
What Woodward is doing presently, as seen by many, is one out of two: a) he's sticking with LVG based on a thorough analysis of the situation, secure in the belief that he will turn this around and finish the season in some style or b) sticking with LVG because he doesn't want to sack him (and/or because he doesn't want to pay for sacking him prior to a Moyes style clause being triggered).
The third alternative is that Woody has given up on 4th (or considers this a pure bonus) and doesn't think there's any point in replacing LVG before the end of the season.
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I've mentioned this quite a few times already but his points return is currently just shy of 50%, he has amassed a huge 46 points out of 93 since beating City 4-2 last season.
We are clearly going backwards;
We took 65 points from first 32 league games W19 D8 L5 scoring 59 conceding 30
We have taken 46 from the last 31 league games W12 D10 L9 scoring 35 conceding 29
Add the disastrous CL campaign and pathetic league cup showings this man cannot honestly believe he deserves to keep his job past the summer.
We are clearly going backwards;
We took 65 points from first 32 league games W19 D8 L5 scoring 59 conceding 30
We have taken 46 from the last 31 league games W12 D10 L9 scoring 35 conceding 29
Add the disastrous CL campaign and pathetic league cup showings this man cannot honestly believe he deserves to keep his job past the summer.
He should be sacked even if we qualify for the Champions League.
I cant believe you have to spell this out for some folks.
LVG should have been gone since December, its shocking to me he still is the manager of MUFC.
The hypocrisy is about the comparison of other teams, the fall over themselves about Liverpool under Klopp for his style and then forget about the shit results, or Jose is the answer as results aND trophies are the most important thing. It was Chelsea players who underperformed to get Jose the sack, but it is LVG'S fault when united players under perform and so on. I am not claiming everyone has been hypocritical, just the same posters who seem to have a fit at the fact LVG is still in a job. Even this morning, 2016 is ignored, because it is better to focus on December to get the point across.
Do you not think that for long periods in games in 2016 we have done that. Accept Southampton was piss poor, but for most others we have played well, not sparkling, well. Even Liverpool was a tactical game specific for them, it was a snatching and grab, but it wasn't panic mode as per last 10 odd minutes against Chelsea. Seem to get the impression that if any side against us has a period of dominance, that equate to we played shit for 90 mins.
Yeah, well - I can't comment on particular cases you may be referring to.
Generally, though, it isn't hypocritical as such to suggest the players at Chelsea were more to blame for results and performances than our own players. It's evident that Maureen lost the dressing room, whereas LVG apparently hasn't (it looked like he had, to me at least, at one point - but seemingly he never has). You can say that Maureen alienated them to the point where they were justified in turning on him, but that's a slightly different sort of argument: If the players don't make an effort, you're fecked - that's the bottom line. LVG's only apparent excuse is that the players are too thick to grasp his philosophy - but their poor performances don't seem to be the result of them having downed their tools. And he has either brought them in himself, or worked with them for 18 months.
Exactly
VG cannot even compete with a top 4 probably at its weakest, if a man city can decline to the state they are in and still be comfortably ahead, what does that say about VG? The worst part like Samuel wrote in his piece, VG seems blind to the failure of his job at United, what is the saying emperor without clothes on, and that is VG cannot see at the failure of his own job. VG is not even competing against anything special, yet we look miles off those teams
Exactly.
Whether people want Jose or another is a different matter all together. The clear fact is van Gaal needs to be gone, obviously the club did not want to sack him mid season but surely he must be gone as soon as the season finishes, I'd obviously prefer sooner.
Manchester United are happy with Louis van Gaal as their manager, according to Sky sources.
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...s-van-gaal-amid-jose-mourinho-job-speculation
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...s-van-gaal-amid-jose-mourinho-job-speculation
It was like this at the end of Moyes's tenure as well. There are some seriously delusional folks here.
I'm ok with Poch or Jose, either will get us back on track.
Jose will have more pulling power to get us the players we need IMO, especially given the fact that Champions League footie for us next season is by no means a certainty.
No I don't think we have done that. And after 20 months we should be able to execute our plans but we don't, I can't help but compare our situation with Rugby and there is absolutely no chance that a manager stay in the job while achieving what Van gaal achieved, you can excuse bad results but you can't excuse not implementing your philosophy that's just very bad.
2016 is positive only if you compare it with the december, otherwise 2016 is very average too.
6 games against relatively mediocre opponent in PL and just two wins, two draws and two loses - I am not sure people should be even ignoring that if they want to be negative, and our play was far from great. 8 points in 6 games is bad, that's midtable ratio there.
Two wins in a cup is better, but both against lower league teams, decent one against Derby and the one against Sheffield is far from impressive.
If you think that's positive then you are a really great optimist.
What else are they going to say? "He's shit, we're getting rid at the end of the season."Manchester United are happy with Louis van Gaal as their manager, according to Sky sources.
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...s-van-gaal-amid-jose-mourinho-job-speculation
This.
All I would add is that there's simply no sense in keeping Van Gaal through the end of the season when Mourinho is there for the taking.
It's what City have done.
Well you can also believe whatever you want to believe.
Nice that hindsight isn't it.
We hardly need to defy the odds, I'm not saying it's all roses, but people are speaking as if it's apocalyptic. If Tottenham can feasibly win the league, so can we come 4th.
I'm not saying he hasn't under performed, but it's stupid to just turf him out mid season and more than likely getting in someone who will have exactly the same problems and have no effect whatsoever. The only time I really advocate a mid season sacking when you are flirting or in a relegation battle. Seems to be the only case where a positive effect.
We were saying we were happy with Moyes just before kicking him to the curb. It's just standard practice. He's a dead man walking.
You could argue that we are flirting with the ol' 4th place trophy, though. A push, a wee momentum - and we could salvage the season to a degree (actually a pretty significant degree, when you consider the difference between CL and no CL).
Of course, it all depends on several factors, LVG himself and his status as far as the club are concerned being the primary one. What I'm sort of dreading here is that we pull another Moyes: Wait until nothing can be salvaged, and then fire him. If it then turns out that Mourinho was indeed available - and willing to take over mid-season - it'll seem like a bloody waste.
But hey, no sense in crying over milk that hasn't even been spilled yet. My take on the situation is very simple: If LVG's performance as such is deemed unsatisfactory, it's natural to strongly consider firing him given the circumstances we're in: A new, motivated man in charge could give us the push we need to get 4th (which is presumably regarded as very important by the club).
If his performance as such is not deemed unsatisfactory - alright, fair enough, reap as you sow and so forth. It could turn out alright in the end, stranger things have happened.
It's the only response the club could make to be honest. At least in public.
I'm sure the purpose of this info is to calm things down around Van Gaal as there are a few months left until the end of the season, so we cannot afford to let the journos ask Van Gaal the same question every week. The man would completely lose it.
Even if the airspace over Old Trafford was cluttered with planes and banners there'd still be some of the internet fans on here following the clubs official line
.You're right, for them it was the same with Moyes, "not his squad" "back him in the Summer" "Fergie started badly too" "He's revolutionised our training and scouting" then as soon as it was announced, those same fans could finally stop deluding themselves and see what the rest of us had seen month's before.
This is why I am at odds with this view. We have had stat and form thrown around to justify negative points. Looking at the current form, last 6 games on the premier league website, only 3 teams have done better than United. Naturally 2 of those teams are above us, the other being Southampton. So I fail to see how it can't be recognized that we have had an upturn. Goes back to one minute it is important to say we got 0 points so we are shit, to it doesn't matter about the results the performance was shit, just to keep the negativity.
Yeah, very valid point, but I do think the relegation threat has a stronger relationship than the one described above. Yeah, I see your point, I'm quite against Mourinho coming in anyway, so maybe that's my bias on the situation
I think if LVG performance is purely based on results, then sack him, but what you've got from LVG is:
1) An identity with shape, the importance of it and the roles people play in a team
2) A strong possession and defensive focus that a new manager can build upon (always the plan, I believe) - not saying he never promised attacking football, but I imagine it is at the expense of getting the former in place
3) people like CBJ, McNair, Blackett, (Christ, even Nick Powell) getting chances in the first team. Showing that the academy it's attitude and application that gets you your chance, not just talent. Pretty sure all those examples had glowing training reports months prior to their 1st team appearances
4) (kind of like point 3) The academy system and training needs serious addressing and I believe he has a large advisory role in how it should be shaped.
Where he has failed, is the ultimate goal of succeeding with the above and maintaining a competitive 1st team. It was all a bit too much to ask I believe. I hope at the end of the season, the new manager will come in (in the case their is no improvement) and continue with the visions above; whilst applying their stamp of flair on top of it. If we improve and get a respectable position, hopefully the season after.
You are at odd with this view because we are not using the same time frame, I use the last 20 months while you use the "positive" period. If we continue and improve our current form, it will be okay but I will still consider the 20 first months as failed and the 15 others as positive.
To put it simply, I didn't considered him a failure because of the month of December so I'm not going to consider him a success because of average results in January, that would be very strange.
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Agreed.
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