LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

Do you want LVG sacked?

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DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Is there a reason, beyond fearing the worst, that people are assuming we're keeping him on?

I was expecting news of his departure to come today, before seeing the tone of this thread.
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Well he has refused to resign and given his tone and body language post match, which was so very different to that vs Stoke, it seems he has backing of board and players too.
I doubt he is completely safe though. Lose vs Swansea at home next and then it will be almost impossible for him not to be sacked(cue 'how many of you want to see us lose to Swansea' thread soon).
 
amolbhatia50k said:
The fact that you put all our woes down to our managers precisely makes my point for me. The club has to bear the brunt of Wayne Rooney's obese and unjustified wages, the club has to pay Nani for a year while he plays for another club, the club has to deal with the decision to allow an existing manager in his 70s to pick his own inept successor, the club has to deal with a situation where we've got too small a squad. Hence, the club should have a structure that can deliberate and if necessary, veto daft decisions made by managers. Leaving it all to the manager and saying "HE's the king/idiot" is all well and good when you have a genius like SAF in charge who is the boss in every sense. Less so when you're likely to constantly be hiring new managers every 2-4 years. Hence, the need for the club to have it's own decision-making structure in addition to the one provided by the managerial staff.

And no, it's not that I'm not counting SAF and SBC, I'm calling our only two men being two extremely old chaps, very odd. Get the bright minds of our recent ex-players on board. Ajax have, for example, hired Van Der Sar, as their marketing director, presumably because he knows Ajax through and through, is I imagine in their opinion intelligent, and has played for the best marketed football club on the planet.

As for the accountants and commercial men, I know their worth. I'm in the former field myself. But there should be a healthy mix between footballing and non-footballing people.
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Yep good post.

Any basic skills audit of that board would reveal what is glaringly obvious to all and that is a clear lack of young, dynamic footballing people with a a thorough understanding of the contemporary game.

We need younger football people with a clear footballing vision to bring balance to a board that is lopsided in favour of commercial development and income generation. SAF and SBC are custodians of history and heritage but they are of their time and we need forward thinkers now. The club feels antiquated but the Glazer's appetite for modernising is surely going to be dictated not by the long term good of the club but by what profit they can extract from it.
 
The Man Himself said:
Well he has refused to resign and given his tone and body language post match, which was so very different to that vs Stoke, it seems he has backing of board and players too.
I doubt he is completely safe though. Lose vs Swansea at home next and then it will be almost impossible for him not to be sacked(cue 'how many of you want to see us lose to Swansea' thread soon).
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The perfect time to sack him has come and gone. The way things read I don't think LVG is going to be sacked barring a truly gigantic eff up (as if we are not in one now; which a lot of LVG apologists would still say).
 
Cant believe the fans are buying this bullshit club propaganda.

4 wins in 17 games!!! We're Man United! But we can't score when we want....

He needs to go regardless of the board wanting United to seem as if theyre above other clubs in terms of sticking with their manager. If that was the case we should have stuck with Moyes. How any fan can accept these results and performances I don't know. In any industry, any company would have fired Van Gaal. Football and Man United should be no different. Spent so much money and made so many basic errors in letting players go prematurely yet we let this egotistical charlaton stay in charge? He has some qualities but nowhere near enough to be in charge of this great club. His approach is fundamentally flawed.
 
All 3 United said:
But you have ask yourself why is a club the size of Manchester United even considering the views of 78 year old man!?
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A couple of thoughts along the lines on this topic. First off, hasn't it widely been reported that Sir Bobby and Sir Alex operate in largely ambassadorial roles for the club? Some posters (not you, but some in the past) have gone over the top in portraying them as power brokers at the club, key decision makers, etc. and use that to denigrate or berate them. These men are living legends, and deserve respect for their long, admirable service to the club. I firmly believe any decisions related to the manager fall firmly at the feet of Woodward and the Glazers, bringing Sir Bobby or Sir Alex into it is both unnecessary, and to belittle them is in poor taste, IMO.

Second, regarding Sir Bobby's comments, I for one don't think he speaks for the club, but he does speak for a fan like me. I wanted Mourinho over Moyes, and while my preference is that LvG rights the ship to the end of the season at least, I can see many good reasons to go for Mourinho now as well. However, I do have serious concerns over his conduct and do think those concerns should be heavily considered. I would prefer a Manchester United manager who can conduct himself with some dignity and class. Since Mourinho has returned to Chelsea he's incessantly insulted Wenger at every turn, got into a public spat with Benitez and his wife, called a referee "effing soft" and refused to leave their quarters - earning a stadium ban, and this Eva Carniero situation has left Chelsea facing legal action and was frankly, disgraceful. To be unhappy with LvG and want Mourinho is an understandable position, however, to whitewash Mourinho's recent behaviour (not to mention his previous) is dangerous. I have grave concerns over what ramifications his behaviour would have for the club, should he be appointed, and I can only venture a guess that there might be other fans who have the same concerns as Sir Bobby.
 
Could the board's refusal to fire him mean we have something agreed with Guardiola for the summer, irrespective of our finishing position this season? That is the only logical reason I can conjure up for LvG continuing in the job.
 
Bestie07 said:
Could the board's refusal to fire him mean we have something agreed with Guardiola for the summer, irrespective of our finishing position this season? That is the only logical reason I can conjure up for LvG continuing in the job.
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Wishful thinking. We need to face the facts - he's going to City.
 
Bestie07 said:
Could the board's refusal to fire him mean we have something agreed with Guardiola for the summer, irrespective of our finishing position this season? That is the only logical reason I can conjure up for LvG continuing in the job.
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That would be the best case scenario although I think we've entered the Pep race a bit to late. Hopefully it's not true but seems that way. Commercial aspects aside our top level management feels much more reactive than pro-active in regards to football matters which isn't ideal.
 
Does not make sense sacking him now, would just mean Giggs will become manager until the end of the season which imo would lead to disaster.

Let him see out the rest of the season then go all out for Pep.
 
0161_UNITED said:
A couple of thoughts along the lines on this topic. First off, hasn't it widely been reported that Sir Bobby and Sir Alex operate in largely ambassadorial roles for the club? Some posters (not you, but some in the past) have gone over the top in portraying them as power brokers at the club, key decision makers, etc. and use that to denigrate or berate them. These men are living legends, and deserve respect for their long, admirable service to the club. I firmly believe any decisions related to the manager fall firmly at the feet of Woodward and the Glazers, bringing Sir Bobby or Sir Alex into it is both unnecessary, and to belittle them is in poor taste, IMO.
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As far as I am aware, they are non-executive directors, not ambassadors.

Hard to know who has the power, but it looks pretty sure than Moyes decision was completely Fergie's. And that while Gill wanted Mourinho, he was overruled by Fergie who wanted Moyes and by Charlton whom according to many reports, vetoed Mourinho. LVG said a week ago that he was given assurances by Fergie, Gill and Woodward.

So, it looks pretty sure that both of them - especially Sir Alex - holds quite a lot of power, far more than an ambassador.

Agree though that this most likely is Woody's decision, and hopefully if things go completely shit (as easy to predict as Messi winning the Ballon D'Or), then Glazers blame him. After all, everyone kneels to someone, and hopefully Woody gets in full of shit if the club does so because he doesn't want to sack LVG cause it was his pick.
 
2mufc0 said:
Does not make sense sacking him now, would just mean Giggs will become manager until the end of the season which imo would lead to disaster.

Let him see out the rest of the season then go all out for Pep.
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Will Pep come if were not in the Champions League?
 
LonelyFire said:
As much as I like the sentiment, there is no chance of Keane working at Utd.
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The Keane part was tongue in cheek, but while typing it I thought about something, this club is a dictatorship, they refuse to have divergent opinions inside the club and I'm wondering if we are not simply witnessing a power struggle between egotistical people, I'm including the two legends in it.
 
Let's just put this Pep stuff to bed.

The club has fallen behind City at every youth level age group from U10s onwards. City have invested in their structure heavily in the last 4 years - Utd have not and have not had an Academy Director in place since April. City have brought in Sporting Directors who have experience at the highest level....those Sporting Directors are known to have a very close relationship with Guardiola. Utd have no Sporting Director and a complete lack of direction on a footballing level.

The idea that Woodward & Co. will all of a sudden have shown a proactive approach is ridiculous (unless it involves the words Thailand and Official Noodle Partner). The signs are there for everyone to see - City are miles in front and the appointment of Guardiola is just another step in a direction they have been working towards for years.

PS. If Woodward had been involved in trying to get Guardiola, the giddy little cnut wouldn't have been able to keep his mouth shut.
 
MrSingh2002 said:
Will Pep come if were not in the Champions League?
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We should be speaking to him now, not surprised if we haven't TBH.

Our choices are limited anyway, the only other top level manager available (Ancelotti) has been taken, so we either do all we can to get Pep, or settle for Giggs or Pochettino calibre manager.
 
LonelyFire said:
Let's just put this Pep stuff to bed.

The club has fallen behind City at every youth level age group from U10s onwards. City have invested in their structure heavily in the last 4 years - Utd have not and have not had an Academy Director in place since April. City have brought in Sporting Directors who have experience at the highest level....those Sporting Directors are known to have a very close relationship with Guardiola. Utd have no Sporting Director and a complete lack of direction on a footballing level.

The idea that Woodward & Co. will all of a sudden have shown a proactive approach is ridiculous (unless it involves the words Thailand and Official Noodle Partner). The signs are there for everyone to see - City are miles in front and the appointment of Guardiola is just another step in a direction they have been working towards for years.

PS. If Woodward had been involved in trying to get Guardiola, the giddy little cnut wouldn't have been able to keep his mouth shut.
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Agree with all of this.
 
JPRouve said:
The Keane part was tongue in cheek, but while typing it I thought about something, this club is a dictatorship, they refuse to have divergent opinions inside the club and I'm wondering if we are not simply witnessing a power struggle between egotistical people, I'm including the two legends in it.
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I mentioned earlier in the thread that I believe the influence of SAF and Charlton are somewhat overplayed. The power lies with the two Glazers and Woodward. What I do believe to be more interesting is a power struggle between Woodward and the Co92 and the idea that appointing Giggs would hand power to him and his merry men.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
The fact that you put all our woes down to our managers precisely makes my point for me. The club has to bear the brunt of Wayne Rooney's obese and unjustified wages, the club has to pay Nani for a year while he plays for another club, the club has to deal with the decision to allow an existing manager in his 70s to pick his own inept successor, the club has to deal with a situation where we've got too small a squad. Hence, the club should have a structure that can deliberate and if necessary, veto daft decisions made by managers. Leaving it all to the manager and saying "HE's the king/idiot" is all well and good when you have a genius like SAF in charge who is the boss in every sense. Less so when you're likely to constantly be hiring new managers every 2-4 years. Hence, the need for the club to have it's own decision-making structure in addition to the one provided by the managerial staff.

And no, it's not that I'm not counting SAF and SBC, I'm calling our only two men being two extremely old chaps, very odd. Get the bright minds of our recent ex-players on board. Ajax have, for example, hired Van Der Sar, as their marketing director, presumably because he knows Ajax through and through, is I imagine in their opinion intelligent, and has played for the best marketed football club on the planet.

As for the accountants and commercial men, I know their worth. I'm in the former field myself. But there should be a healthy mix between footballing and non-footballing people.
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Excellent post. In one other thread I asked what a DOF does. Maybe that is what we need.
 
LonelyFire said:
I mentioned earlier in the thread that I believe the influence of SAF and Charlton are somewhat overplayed. The power lies with the two Glazers and Woodward. What I do believe to be more interesting is a power struggle between Woodward and the Co92 and the idea that appointing Giggs would hand power to him and his merry men.
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It doesn't mean that they are not fighting for it, a lost battle is still a battle.
 
We can talk to Pep all we want. I don't see how he can give us any assurances when there's a pretty good chance we might not finish top four.
 
So, we're waiting until the season is a complete right off till we make this decision. Brilliant. At this moment, we're the worst team in the premier league. The teams around us are actually playing well, our away form is horrendous, not that our home form is any better. I fear that we're done for the season, if he stays. I mean, we played the best football we've played all season in the first 30 minutes, and still couldn't beat a relegation candidate, at home... Say goodbye to the CL, for another year.
 
MrSingh2002 said:
Will Pep come if were not in the Champions League?
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These are the questions Woodward should be asking the man himself. Guardiola is apparently not prepared to reveal his destination for a few months, but United should be asking right now if it's worth bothering approaching him.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I do use hindsight, yes. But isn't that how performance evaluation works? If I've got an employee who does 9 things out 10 wrong, repeatedly, but keeps saying everything he does appears correct to him when he does it, am I supposed to say he's doing well? In the end, you have to take decisions that are successful. Giving Rooney that big fat contract gave everyone a sigh of relief at the time because people needed good news apparently. But the football club itself is one of the biggest brands on the planet, and has to go through every inch of the contract it is drafting, as well as assessing every iota of Wayne Rooney, the footballer, and where he seems to be headed in his career, since it has to pay those cheques to him for 5 years and not just the 5 minutes it made "good news" for . Taking all that into account, it was an appalling decision irrespective of whether the layman fan smiled upon hearing it. The club is expecting to give these decisions a lot more analysis, deliberation and thought, than a fan is.

So yes, I am using hindsight, but that's the only way to judge the club. And let's be honest, the LVG decision is the only one out of the ones I mention that given proper thought and deliberation, made proper sense.
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Not knocking you or anything about hindsight, but as you correctly pointed out that's how performance evaluation works. And hence that is why I think the club may be waiting for LVG to be mathematically out of TOP 4 before the sack.

As for Moyes, we suffer the consequences of that one decision in more ways than just one aspect.
 
So now he needs a month to turn things around. Looks like he'll get backing for the Jan transfer window.
 
So let me get this straight, he had 2 games to save his job and he saved it by getting 1 point without scoring any goals in the process? :lol:
 
ottosec said:
So let me get this straight, he had 2 games to save his job and he saved it by getting 1 point without scoring any goals in the process? :lol:
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Progress, man. Managed to avoid defeat at home while playing the worst Chelsea team in decades.
 
Drifter said:
So now he needs a month to turn things around. Looks like he'll get backing for the Jan transfer window.
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Problem is who can we get? English clubs under no pressure to sell but we should be all out for Lukaku - absolute beast of a centre forward.
 
RedPnutz said:
Not knocking you or anything about hindsight, but as you correctly pointed out that's how performance evaluation works. And hence that is why I think the club may be waiting for LVG to be mathematically out of TOP 4 before the sack.

As for Moyes, we suffer the consequences of that one decision in more ways than just one aspect.
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But foresight evaluation is also a thing, mid term evaluation too. You don't have to wait the end of cycle to evaluate it, in theory there should be milestones and if those milestones aren't reached repeatedly, actions should be taken.
Now, do you think that registering less than 50% of wins is a normal course of actions, do you think that recording less than 2pts per games is normal?

Considering that we are talking about Manchester United, the reality is that Van gaal's results have been extremely shit, it's not going to please a lot of people, some will say that we reached top 4 last season but we did it with less than 2pts per games, that's a Europa League performance.
 
Garethw said:
Him and LVG would be rolling around on the floor punching each other in the head within a week.
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As if Van Gaal would get a punch in against Keane.. He'd tear his big thick Dutch head clean off. :D

I'd pay to see that, maybe that's what I'll do with the money I save from not renewing my season ticket next season if they don't get rid of LVG!
 
Anyone else seen those pictures Richard Keys has tweeted?

Not sure if legit
 
LonelyFire said:
As much as I like the sentiment, there is no chance of Keane working at Utd.
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Agreed. We have a number of ex players who can fill a role but Keane is not one of them. He remains divisive, abrasive and seemingly unable to work harmoniously alongside other people for any length of time.
 
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