It looks like you will get your wish and he is staying. I wouldn't say getting rid of him is at our peril. Guess we will find out who is right at the end of the season. All I know is that this has turned into a farce. If the club backs him they should come right out and say it. Right now it feels like LVG is living on a game by game basis. This is also unfair because he essentially needs to field the same questions after every single game. And honestly, the way this team is playing, and given the dearth of matchwinners in our squad, we will have many more bad games to come because yesterday didn't prove much in the overall scheme of things. If LVG manages to pull of a run of wins and get us back to the top of the table, I am sure many of us would happy eat our words and apologize to LVG and his almost blindingly devoted supporters here.
LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
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It looks like you will get your wish and he is staying. I wouldn't say getting rid of him is at our peril. Guess we will find out who is right at the end of the season. All I know is that this has turned into a farce. If the club backs him they should come right out and say it. Right now it feels like LVG is living on a game by game basis. This is also unfair because he essentially needs to field the same questions after every single game. And honestly, the way this team is playing, and given the dearth of matchwinners in our squad, we will have many more bad games to come because yesterday didn't prove much in the overall scheme of things. If LVG manages to pull of a run of wins and get us back to the top of the table, I am sure many of us would happy eat our words and apologize to LVG and his almost blindingly devoted supporters here.
Looking at the relative successes of the other leagues, maybe it makes sense to have a DOF then.
It depends, really. Eight games without a win after a streak of 20 wins, why not? Eight wins as we are now is a cause for concern. If I were a manager, I wouldn't be pleased at all. And I don't think LVG is pleased at all.
But then again, why 8? why not 10? why not 5? I understand your point actually that it seems like we are snowballing downhill and before 8 becomes 15, we should get LVG out to stop the bleeding. My only doubt is that even if LVG were sacked at this moment, who's there to stop the bleeding? And unless the board has set a pretty specific target like that, I don't think the board would sack him.
Not sure how we are "dicking around" when there are no real viable alternatives available.
I think neither Mourinho nor Pep are willing to sign for us. So what are the options?
Sack him? And replace him with who?
Giggs?
I think we might need to accept that the board might have been trying, but would a change of manager make any sense if big names aren't interested?
I almost think the Jan transfer window is our last hope to save this season.
Sack him? And replace him with who?
Giggs?
I think we might need to accept that the board might have been trying, but would a change of manager make any sense if big names aren't interested?
I almost think the Jan transfer window is our last hope to save this season.
Now that it looks like he is going nowhere (unless results further deteriorate in Jan), we fans needs to stop moaning and get behind him and team. Doesn't mean not criticizing etc, but the "sack Van Gaal" mission and banners and scarfs in this regard should be cut down. "The board is joke", "this is unbelievable," "we are doomed" kind of posts and social media outbursts are not going to get us anywhere.
Who knows, few wins on trot and we can be back in contention and players will gain the much needed confidence. I only hope that LvG now maintains yesterday's team formation and playing style. If we do that, at least against lesser teams we should score and defend well enough to win those games.
Who knows, few wins on trot and we can be back in contention and players will gain the much needed confidence. I only hope that LvG now maintains yesterday's team formation and playing style. If we do that, at least against lesser teams we should score and defend well enough to win those games.
I hope for him to be sacked in the next 3 hours.
There was booing by a small section of the fans as LvG walked off. It's difficult to gauge fans feelings during games. That's the time to support the team. However, most fans you speak to will say they're in favour of change.
Wow!
To bring out Jose scarfs was purely moronic though
I've heard something about a 2:30 deadline when trading closes... Or opens. Or something like that. Give it a few more hours.
Guess unless its mathematically impossible to get top 4, lvg will be here.
That's only logical if we're trying to save money on his severance package by using a clause.
The fact he offered his resignation to Woodward and only has 18 months left on his deal makes it a bit irrelevant.
For whatever reason it's clear now that Mourinho isn't for us so the club want him to stay and drag us out of it.
I think we're going to see us targeting strikers in the January window, looking for someone to put the ball in the net and start earning us points.
Will be interesting to see what happens in the next few days. He did come across as someone who has had some sort of assurance.
@Needham You've a competitor.
I think this is probably not at all far off what is actually happening. There's so much money in the PL these days it might not be a problem for the Glazers if we are not successful. The only negative effect might be merchandising revenues start to dip worldwide. But then a 10% increase in price on everything might cushion that "blow" too.
Saving whatever money helps the business. We definitely dont have much of a better option anyway. So strengthening in jan and getting points on the board is the way forward right now. If we really had the option of getting mourinho, pep and the likes....we most likely would have. The other option was to let giggs take over but that would have been a further risk that we cannot afford to take.
This, please.
Don't think the decision-makers are totally lacking. When LvG was appointed, he did seem like the right choice, if you remember. The Dutch had a stellar WC given their squad. What has happened to them after Hiddink took over shows just how well Louis did to take them that far. Say what you will, to even hold other teams till penalties was well beyond the Dutch team under Hiddink...and it was pretty much the same squad!
What we seem to lack is the will to make the ruthless decisions when it comes to sacking. Somehow the legacy of Fergie's recovery after being on the brink hangs heavy at OT and none of the main men seems to see that this is pretty much the only example of success stemming from standing by the manager (and the circumstances then were so different too!). The belief that "the United way" is to stand by while watching a manager sink the ship is what is detrimental. Of course, I'm overlooking the monumental mistake that was the appointment of Moyes, but that was made when the whole club was in massive flux.
Of course it does. It's the best way to ensure continuity and compartmentalization of tasks. Every big organization has experts for specific fields. The reluctance of English teams to recognize this is astounding. United were lucky with Fergie, but let's face it, the lack of a DOF was at least partly responsible for the shape he left the squad in. It wasn't dead men walking, but we had a squad of the ageing and walking wounded when he departed (Vidic, Rio, Evra, Fletcher, Nani, Anderson...). No self-respecting DOF would have allowed that.
I don't think a price increase would cushion the blow. You're referring to inflation I reckon when you mention price increase, but if inflation hits, the returns have to be discounted at the higher rate as well (when running the NPV calculations) and that hits the Enterprise Value. Also, since inflation that hits price will also hit costs as well, it also impacts the EBITDA multiple. That's not something any investor wants to see. Similarly, poor results will spook investors and ultimately also hit the value of commercial contracts. Adidas, for example, won't pay their full sponsorship amount if we're out of the Champions League. This last one is the only possible point that I feel may affect the club's decision-making on LvG. If results don't improve remarkably now, I think they will pull the trigger before Top 4 is out of reach (even practically, let alone mathematically).
Do I hope LvG can turn it around? Of course, I do. I'm a supporter and that means I want us to win every game we play! Do I think he can do it? Sadly, that hope is diminishing rapidly. I placed a 250 GBP bet 2 months ago that we'd finish ahead of Arsenal. I've already put that money aside as a loss. It's sad...
Mourinho is free, who wouldn't he be an option? Will be interesting to see what happens, if we continue our relegation form then the board would look very silly. Swansea at home looks winnable but I don't fancy Newcastle and Liverpool away.
It seems to me that this is arse covering of the highest order from Woodward. He thinks he's doing right thing by standing by a manager (whom he clearly invested in) while not having any experience to draw on knowing that he's backing a lame duck. As in the transfer window, his lack of footballing know how is creating this mess.
As for Mourinho - I think you are correct. It was an easy decision to make after Norwich and Stoke and it wasn't made. This begs the question, who the feck does Woodward think he's going to get come the end of LVG (whether that's soon, the summer, or next year). For the 2nd time in two years the worlds Top 3 managers were available to be appointed/lined up and Utd look like they have failed to appoint any of them again.
As for strikers, wouldn't make one bit of a difference who we sign. The only thing that will change our form is by allowing the team to attack.
Southampton and Stoke at home? Doable. Thing is it's difficult to gage yesterday's performance, because Chelsea literally look like relegation candidates.
What I mean is, he isn't an option to take over right now. Maybe he doesnt want to or the board has some issues etc. Can't be sure without exactly knowing what's going on behind the scenes. From the outside, he obviously is.
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For the second time Mourinho has fallen in our lap and we're going to spurn him again. We better not regret it come summer when Manchester City are delighted to announce Pep Guardiola has signed a 3 year deal to manage the team.The decision to hire LVG was probably the most obvious one we could have taken in that scenario, but I do think the overall decision-making system at the club is lacking and is fueled by a lack of footballing-men in our decision-making tree. Barring our two golden oldies, it's full of accounts and finance people with no healthy doze of footballing nous and experience in the midst to provide a balance.
That leads to some extremely suspect decisions being made at the football club. While the decision to appoint LVG seemed the correct one at the time, if you look through the entire period post Sir Alex, we've made far too many decisions that were either outright blunders, or those that have not been justified by their eventual success.
Hiring Moyes? A joke decision.
Giving Nani a 5 year contract which was followed by his loan and sale? Terrible decision.
Giving Rooney that contract? A joke decision.
Hiring LVG? A logical decision. But it could eventually prove to be an unsuccessful one.
Buying just Fellaini in the summer of 13-14? Weird decision.
Selling so many first teamers/title winners without replacing them over 14-15 and 15-16? Weird decision.
It just comes across as a business that isn't run all that well to me at the present moment. As has been discussed at length elsewhere, I'd like to see us restructure our managerial structure, as much as we seem to be doing with our footballing team itself.
He isn't an option because we are not making him an option for some stupid reason. If it is because of Charlton sticking his neck in again then it shows what a joke of a club we are that we are going to value his manager opinions after he pushed for Moyes (the reason we are in this stupid mess to start with).
Just to supplement your post,
He really doesn't like Mourinho, and he's one of the only two footballing voices at the club.
A 0-0 at home to a Chelsea team who were 16th in the league and had no recognised striker saves his job. Wow just wow. Only at United.
But you have ask yourself why is a club the size of Manchester United even considering the views of 78 year old man!?
I agree with everything, particularly the LVG part, it is not working but it was a sensible appointment.
I'm still baffled as to why we played like that yesterday, it is not what LvG does and he as stubborn a mule, so why did he suddenly decide to let the players run forward, take chances with their passes, and let everyone shoot from range?
If he can get them playing like this why did he wait until he was on the brink to do it?
If he can get them playing like this why did he wait until he was on the brink to do it?
And this is the exact reason I have no faith in this club making the right decisions anymore. The fact we listen to an absolute dinosaur who with all due respect should be nowhere near board levels making absolute VITAL decisions in regards to the clubs future. I respect everything he has done for the club but for me his reputation will be going down the pan if we don't rectify this dramatic fall we are suffering from because of his stupid decisions.
If he doesn't go now, then I really do think we're waiting until we no longer look likely to get CL football to sack him. If we do get it, then he stays.
I'm not disputing some bad decisions were made, but you should recognise that several were made because of the way Fergie insisted the managerial structure should work. At United, the manager calls the shots on contracts and on transfer targets too. Sure, the commercial guys get involved, but for the most part, it's them doing the manager's bidding. Fergie's written and spoken about this at length too. So of the decisions you've mentioned, only the Moyes appointment can really be labeled a mistake of the decision-makers.
It was - after that - the managers that called the shots and made those other decisions. Running through them:
1. Hiring Moyes - Yes, a joke, but SAF has explained the process and it's clear that there were several "footballing-men" involved too; unless you don't think SAF and Bobby fit that description.
2. Nani's contract - Moyes made that call
3. Rooney's contract - Moyes was desperate to retain him and pretty much gave in to every demand.
4. Hiring LvG - Hindsight's a wonderful stick to beat people with, non? You've admitted it was a logical decision - and at the time, the only real option
5. Fellaini - Moyes failed to draw any of the big names. Sure, Ed was green too, but to blame it on decision-making would be incorrect. More Moyes' fault than Ed's I'd say.
6. Selling - We sold mostly deadwood (though Hernandez is doing his best to prove me wrong). It was hailed as a wise choice. Think about it though. Which of those that were loaned / sold are doing well? RvP? Can't get a game in Turkey! Nani? Not really tearing it up after a decent start and stank up OT for years. AdM? Sad, but he wanted to go and that was that. Januzaj? Can't get a game where he is. Wilson? Not convinced he was good enough. Fletcher? Surely you don't think he's a better player than Basti / Morgan?
And, err, it's the accountants and commercial men that have elevated United to being the commercial behemoth it is. I think we do indeed need them at the top. We just need to also get in some ruthlessness, that's all.
Schweinsteiger has been banned/rested and Schneiderlin and Herrera have picked up injuries and coming back to fitness. I don't think we've played with that three as a midfield very often (at all?), we haven't always been able to.
Charlton's influence is somewhat overplayed now (chuck in SAF to that as well).....the power lies with 3 (Joel & Avi Glazer and Woodward)....conveniently none with any footballing knowledge.
I wouldn't describe the Glazers
I agree. Surely playing with that intensity in an opening half an hour would have seen off the likes of Norwich, WHU, Bournemouth, Stoke etc. in a way I think he's bowed to the fans and media and this was his way of saying that which, of course, you'd never hear him say.
What a mockery it makes of his so called philosophy though because that opening burst was about as Fergie like as you will ever see and just a return to a traditional United performance. Nothing too technical or overly complicated just a well drilled formation with good footballers playing instinctively allied with a real willingness to work hard for each other - exactly how we used to play.
Sill doesn't explain it for me, and anyway they've all been fit at the same time before so that's down to LvG's lack of vision at what they can do together.
I just can't believe how a 0-0 draw has taken the heat off him to such an extent, it's almost worse for me that we played like because why the heck hasn't he done it earlier.
It shouldn't take him to be so close to been sacked for him to finally get us playing how the fans want us to.
Question, why does everyone think that Mourinho is a good choice?
Granted that Mourinho is a winner and has a track record to prove it, he has also shown to be pretty unstable and has fallen out with the clubs he's been with in a time span of around 3 years. This season with Chelsea, he's shown that his team's results can go awry as well. You could say it's a one-off thing, but you can't guarantee it won't happen again.
Most fans agree that our club is in disarray. Does Mourinho seem like the kind of manager that brings stability to a club? If he doesn't, why bother? Just so we can try to push our way back into top 4 or challenging for the title? What are the odds of that? I wonder if Mourinho's own mental state is even adequate right now.
Plus Mourinho has never been know to play scintillatingly attractive football. So in terms of playing style, what upside does he bring compared to LVG?
It seems like swapping LVG for Mourinho now isn't going to do much benefit for THIS season anyway.
I honestly think, based on no evidence other than the Moyes' season, that LVG has a top 4 objective to meet. If he meets that criteria, then things aren't that bad, are they? Many fans may disagree, but it wouldn't matter because LVG will come to the end of his contract the following season so the fans will still get their wish for a manager change.
If LVG doesn't meet top 4 this season, I think he will be asked to go at no additional cost to the club. The management can then hire another manager, maybe it will be Mourinho (Will Mourinho be hired by some other club so quickly after this season's debacle? At least he will have half a season hiatus to sort himself out). So fans will get their wish for a manager change.
Firing LVG mid-season doesn't serve much purpose. Only half the season has gone and there is a likelihood, however slight, that things could turn around. As said above, it doesn't feel like Mourinho will be of any benefit now so who else is there? Maybe Brendan Rodgers. Would the fans accept that?
If a new manager comes, it is likely he is going to uproot most of the coaching staff - will this be helpful? Will this stabilize the team? Probably not. Or maybe we will just let Giggs take over the reins for the remainder of the season. Then what? If he does well for the remainder of the season, will we let Giggs carry on or go for a Pep or Mourinho next season?
Also, I never for once believe that our club management are totally naïve people. I wouldn't be surprised if they are already working on managerial candidates in the background. But you can't be public about this. The players already seem not to have heart to play for LVG, imagine if you go public that you are negotiating with a new manager, you can almost be sure that the players have no motivation to play for LVG for his remaining tenure.
I actually like the fact that the management has come out to back LVG. If it is true that LVG has tried to resign and it was rejected, I think that sends a message publicly. Whether it is true or not behind curtains, it tells the media that their sniping is useless (hopefully that abates), it tells the fans "we are still behind LVG so get behind him as well" and it tells the players that LVG is not going anywhere so buck up. It is a positive gesture. And I think in this sea of negativity, some positive gestures are required.
The true philosophy of LVG....lower expectations everywhere.
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