I think 'good in defense' is an excuse for full backs that are terrible going forward. He is a colossus in defence and in possession, but offers next to nothing in the final third. We really could do with a more attacking option at LB seeing as he is the only option anyway.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 40
- Clean sheets
- 10
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 7
- Yellow cards
- 13
- Status
I'd like that. Unfortunately we still have urgent areas to sort out, plus a good few more pressing ones than this as well. We're in a bit of a mess team-wise and it'll take spending a lot of money in a short space of time to sort it out, whether people like to admit that or not.
He's such a lazy fat bastard. Offers little going forward and he tucks in so much he's almost playing as a CB. All because he doesn't want to bust a gut sprinting - speaking of how many sprints did he have last night?
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I really like Shaw and believe he should be an asset for years but I can't understand how he contributed so little going forward. He's got a very good touch and passes it intelligently but it's strange how he hasn't developed any sort of instinct in attack. You dont see him burst past the winger enough times like he did on Tuesday that one time when martial put him in. Same with crossing, you want your LB to be able to put in a decent cross now and then given all wingers nowdays are inverted.
On paper him and Martial should be a frightening combination for teams but no matter who you put at LW, Shaw does little combining in the attacking third. He needs to add more adventure to his game but I fear it may be too late.
On paper him and Martial should be a frightening combination for teams but no matter who you put at LW, Shaw does little combining in the attacking third. He needs to add more adventure to his game but I fear it may be too late.
If he had the natural qualities of Heinze, you'd understand, but Shaw's game is tailor made for an attack minded LB yet he is not one.
It's infuriating alright. I just tried to look for a logical reason because it's just crazy how wingers or full backs are always in acres of space like you described.
wow. I'm going to go against the herd here and say that you won't find many better than Shaw out there. People here have an agenda against him. Shaw lazy? Stupidest fecking thing I've heard. You want the definition of lazy? Look at Rom.Here's a visual of something that is atypical of Shaw in terms of his lack of attacking aggression.
1. Sanchez has the ball on the left of 18 yard. Shaw's current position is behind him. If that's Alba or Robertson, he's running outside of Sanchez.
2. After two seconds, Shaw hasn't read the situation and made the overlap for Sanchez. In fact, he's actually stepped backwards and outwards, but again, the opportunity is very much there for the overlap.
3. In the end, Sanchez gives up on anticipating Shaw's overlap and plays a square ball which leads to a cross from Shaw which is subsequently cleared rather easily.
I want to be able to say that the above is untypical, however, this is something I've seen from him very often. It's less of an issue with Martial playing because Martial holds the width and Shaw isn't expected to overlap, although, there's no reason why a full-back can't underlap in the channel, since this is quite common in modern football.
When Coutinho drifts in, like Sanchez, Alba guarantees to make the above overlap. Likewise, when Mane drifts centrally, Robertson is guaranteed to make that overlap. Arguably, both the aforementioned not only make the run, but they sprint into the overlap to make it all the more effective.
Shaw is guilty of two things, usually.
1. Not overlapping with aggressiveness when the situation clearly presents itself.
2. Rarely sprinting off-the-ball to make the overlap effective as possible when it does occur.
Shaw isn't slow. In-fact, when he sprints he's incredibly quick, which is all the more baffling when you consider that you don't see many offensive sprints from him, compared to defensive ones.
1. Sanchez has the ball on the left of 18 yard. Shaw's current position is behind him. If that's Alba or Robertson, he's running outside of Sanchez.
2. After two seconds, Shaw hasn't read the situation and made the overlap for Sanchez. In fact, he's actually stepped backwards and outwards, but again, the opportunity is very much there for the overlap.
3. In the end, Sanchez gives up on anticipating Shaw's overlap and plays a square ball which leads to a cross from Shaw which is subsequently cleared rather easily.
I want to be able to say that the above is untypical, however, this is something I've seen from him very often. It's less of an issue with Martial playing because Martial holds the width and Shaw isn't expected to overlap, although, there's no reason why a full-back can't underlap in the channel, since this is quite common in modern football.
When Coutinho drifts in, like Sanchez, Alba guarantees to make the above overlap. Likewise, when Mane drifts centrally, Robertson is guaranteed to make that overlap. Arguably, both the aforementioned not only make the run, but they sprint into the overlap to make it all the more effective.
Shaw is guilty of two things, usually.
1. Not overlapping with aggressiveness when the situation clearly presents itself.
2. Rarely sprinting off-the-ball to make the overlap effective as possible when it does occur.
Shaw isn't slow. In-fact, when he sprints he's incredibly quick, which is all the more baffling when you consider that you don't see many offensive sprints from him, compared to defensive ones.
You aren't supposed to overlap on every run forward. Overlapping isnt his problem. He just isnt that good in the final third. Doesnt have the skill to truly be an attacking football.
Shaw is okay but hes pretty average compared to other top team fullbacks.
Shaw is okay but hes pretty average compared to other top team fullbacks.
It's weird. Pre-leg break I always thought he was a beast going forwards and a little lacking in defence. He now seems to be more competent in defence but a bit of a coward going forwards.
Yeah, probably something to do with going from working with Poch to LvG/Mourinho.
Same and I was happy with the way he was playing because we needed that aggression for our fullbacks. Sadly I don't think he is going to get it back. LB isn't our main priority though so I doubt he will get replaced this summer. Maybe Young will play there more when we need someone to link up with Martial.
No, you aren't supposed to overlap on every run forward, but, there are certain situations where an overlap is more beneficial than not, ie. when a wide player drops in and pulls the full-back in with him, leaving a mass of space on the outside to exploit. Any situation in football where a chance to overload is not taken is an opportunity missed.
Shaw's overlapping is an issue. When you effectively overlap it puts you in a position to square a floor pass across the goal for a tap in. How many times do you have to watch City to see this happen? They're not crosses in the general criticism that is levelled at Shaw. One would be forgiven for expecting Shaw to suddenly develop the ability to swing in a long and high cross, but, it'd be much easier if his tactical awareness put him in positions to square a ball. They're square balls across the box as a direct result of an overlap or underlap of a full-back.
I don't think it's about tactical awareness. Going for an Overlap is amateur level stuff and at that level the idea that a full back simply doesn't overlap enough due to lack of awareness seems unlikely. To me it's more a case of Shaw not being able to put in a decent cross or pass in final third and he's better of staying back.
I remember during the LVG season how people were excited about his attacking ability.
In my eyes it was always exaggerated & he was a very defensive fullback from the start & it was the case before his leg breaking too.
Martial has been our LW & he cuts in with nearly 99% of his moves - yet Shaw overlaps him once a match at a maximum.
He is the perfect second LB for our squad but not good enough to be our primary starter.
Even Dailey Blind was better for us at LB witn his lack of pace & was th reason players like Ibrahimovic & Lukaku played better with fullbacks that can provide crosses & secondary runs.
Keep him as bench LB or try him out at LCB. If he gets unhappy then sell him. Not like any of the top 6 will be drooling over him.
In my eyes it was always exaggerated & he was a very defensive fullback from the start & it was the case before his leg breaking too.
Martial has been our LW & he cuts in with nearly 99% of his moves - yet Shaw overlaps him once a match at a maximum.
He is the perfect second LB for our squad but not good enough to be our primary starter.
Even Dailey Blind was better for us at LB witn his lack of pace & was th reason players like Ibrahimovic & Lukaku played better with fullbacks that can provide crosses & secondary runs.
Keep him as bench LB or try him out at LCB. If he gets unhappy then sell him. Not like any of the top 6 will be drooling over him.
His overlaps are an issue, but we also need to put more people in the box just to make it more obvious. We're so so slow at getting into the box and when we do it we lack coordination.
Just look at one of the above pictures, we have 3 players in the box, 2 marked already, the overlap would've done nothing. We're slow around the box to be honest.
When we get with the ball in that position where the fullback needs to overlap, our forwards and midfielders should be ready to step into the box in a coordinated way. At times we look like headless chickens in there.
It's down to the team being wrongly set up and coached in the last 3-4 years.
Just look at one of the above pictures, we have 3 players in the box, 2 marked already, the overlap would've done nothing. We're slow around the box to be honest.
When we get with the ball in that position where the fullback needs to overlap, our forwards and midfielders should be ready to step into the box in a coordinated way. At times we look like headless chickens in there.
It's down to the team being wrongly set up and coached in the last 3-4 years.
Yes I agree. In those illustrations you posted, he was neither attacking nor defending. Infact there was every chance of Sanchez losing the ball because of Shaw's reluctance to overlap there. Every fullback that is decent in attack surely overlaps in that situation.
I think it's got a lot to do with instincts, confidence and overall quality. You see a lot of fullbacks consistently get into dangerous wide positions even with sub-par delivery, something that does not ever seem to be the case with Shaw - Young is an example to an extent. It at times leads to a lot of narrow aimless plays deep on the left channel with next to no penetration, and I would say the positions Martial take in attack is one reason why Shaw's deficiencies is not so obvious like Darmian's was on the right. The game against Huddersfield is an example. We had Lingard instead of Martial and despite Lingard and Huddersfield continously making space on the outside, Shaw was unable to run the flank because he is probably incapable of doing that.
The contribution of full-backs in attack these days imo cannot be overstated. City score a huge shitload of goals, but most of them are similar to each other; ball into outside channel, cut-back and finish - they scored three of those against Chelsea in their last game alone, though they use their wingers for that too.
I would say with Martial and Pogba ahead of him, I think we will have to make do for now seeing as he is quite excellent in defence. Strengthen other positions to compensate, and perhaps get another more attacking option to rotate.
Here's the surprise : in his last season with Southampton he had only 2 assists and the previous one he had none.
He was never good going forward. It's simply a myth. People now are using his defense to defend his poor attack.
Than's just bizzare. I have no clue why he's not making those runs.
He's been poor ever since he signed his new contract. I think for most of us the excitement early on in the season was probably more to do with how awful he was last season, rather than him actually playing that well at the start of the season. With every passing game he's looking more like the LB version of Valencia, I don't think I can handle seeing him bounce around the ball and then just pass back.
I agree with this too. We usually have very few players in the box when the ball is out wide. Young's crossing looks bad at times, but in reality, there is rarely anyone to cross to.
Its not only the final third, he takes too long on the ball. Even defensively he goes too narrow to his CB and switches off when the team plays a quick one-two. He is a unit but he is timid on the pitch. Smaller left backs show more aggression. We should buy Tierney as competition. Alex Telles would be the best option but unrealistic.
Needs to get back to more of this, but at the same time we don’t create openings for our LB to go forward so it’s a bit of a mute point. We’ll rarely create anything to open up space for him to properly be marauding and take people on like the vid. If he was afforded the time and space our RB;s are given this thread would be an entirely different story.
However you can see there is far more space for him to work with there as on our left Martial and Pogba mostly frequent that space and his job is to protect that side so they can do there thing but even then people saying he only overlaps once a game rubbish. He makes lots of offers for it it’s just not really taken and due to where Pogba and Martial position himself he can’t really overlap so tends to go inside of them.
However you can see there is far more space for him to work with there as on our left Martial and Pogba mostly frequent that space and his job is to protect that side so they can do there thing but even then people saying he only overlaps once a game rubbish. He makes lots of offers for it it’s just not really taken and due to where Pogba and Martial position himself he can’t really overlap so tends to go inside of them.
Absolutely. Young isn't a bad crosser, but the only one making runs into the box is Pogba. Rashford and Martianl, while good players, just aren't going to start scoring from those all of a suden. We need to either stop with these useless crosses or start with an attacking pattern which benefits from it. As it stands now it's pretty pointless.
I'm not too worried about Shaw at the minute. He's done remarkably since breaking his leg. Most of us wrote him off at this point last year.
He has got some great defensive attributes. He has shown pre-leg break how good he was going forward. I think with time, he might get it back. We do have a more attacking coach in Ole that can help encourage that side.
I think he can be here long term and maybe even evolve into a centre back.
I wouldn't mind some healthy competition for him though. Tierney would be a great purchase.
The bigger issue is the right back, if we can fix that side, we could add 10 points a season.
He has got some great defensive attributes. He has shown pre-leg break how good he was going forward. I think with time, he might get it back. We do have a more attacking coach in Ole that can help encourage that side.
I think he can be here long term and maybe even evolve into a centre back.
I wouldn't mind some healthy competition for him though. Tierney would be a great purchase.
The bigger issue is the right back, if we can fix that side, we could add 10 points a season.
I'm not sure that's true. Martial cuts in and draws the defenders more narrow, this creates space on the outside for Shaw to exploit. This happens especially when Pogba is also in the area, combining with Martial, since defenders are naturally trying to not give him any shooting possibility from mid-range.
I don't want to blame it all on Shaw, it might be a tactical decision, but I'm pretty sure with how the team is set up that there would be some opportunity there.
Here's a visual of something that is atypical of Shaw in terms of his lack of attacking aggression.
1. Sanchez has the ball on the left of 18 yard. Shaw's current position is behind him. If that's Alba or Robertson, he's running outside of Sanchez.
2. After two seconds, Shaw hasn't read the situation and made the overlap for Sanchez. In fact, he's actually stepped backwards and outwards, but again, the opportunity is very much there for the overlap.
3. In the end, Sanchez gives up on anticipating Shaw's overlap and plays a square ball which leads to a cross from Shaw which is subsequently cleared rather easily.
I want to be able to say that the above is untypical, however, this is something I've seen from him very often. It's less of an issue with Martial playing because Martial holds the width and Shaw isn't expected to overlap, although, there's no reason why a full-back can't underlap in the channel, since this is quite common in modern football.
When Coutinho drifts in, like Sanchez, Alba guarantees to make the above overlap. Likewise, when Mane drifts centrally, Robertson is guaranteed to make that overlap. Arguably, both the aforementioned not only make the run, but they sprint into the overlap to make it all the more effective.
Shaw is guilty of two things, usually.
1. Not overlapping with aggressiveness when the situation clearly presents itself.
2. Rarely sprinting off-the-ball to make the overlap effective as possible when it does occur.
Shaw isn't slow. In-fact, when he sprints he's incredibly quick, which is all the more baffling when you consider that you don't see many offensive sprints from him, compared to defensive ones.
This is typical of what he does. Look at our players in the box there. We have 4 players in the box, they've got 6 and our boys are marked. if he had overlapped gone towards goal and cut a cross back like Oxlade Chamberlain used to do for Arsenal, someone has to go to him, the goal keeper has to move towards his near post, the other defenders will be stepping towards the ball too, giving our guys a change to move into space - we'd have a goal scoring opportunity.
I have seen Young put in peaches for Fellaini and Lukaku. Fellaini in now gone, and Lukaku is barely moving. Our players are unable to attack and connect with wide crosses. We have the same problem both in attack and defence. I cannot even remember the last time we even scored directly from a corner.
He rarely ever gets beyond the outside of the opposition's defensive line to collect a through ball. A move that is typical of wide players, an absolute weapon in attack. Even when he does, he takes too long to cut back. He's got to improve.
Here's a visual of something that is atypical of Shaw in terms of his lack of attacking aggression.
1. Sanchez has the ball on the left of 18 yard. Shaw's current position is behind him. If that's Alba or Robertson, he's running outside of Sanchez.
2. After two seconds, Shaw hasn't read the situation and made the overlap for Sanchez. In fact, he's actually stepped backwards and outwards, but again, the opportunity is very much there for the overlap.
3. In the end, Sanchez gives up on anticipating Shaw's overlap and plays a square ball which leads to a cross from Shaw which is subsequently cleared rather easily.
I want to be able to say that the above is untypical, however, this is something I've seen from him very often. It's less of an issue with Martial playing because Martial holds the width and Shaw isn't expected to overlap, although, there's no reason why a full-back can't underlap in the channel, since this is quite common in modern football.
When Coutinho drifts in, like Sanchez, Alba guarantees to make the above overlap. Likewise, when Mane drifts centrally, Robertson is guaranteed to make that overlap. Arguably, both the aforementioned not only make the run, but they sprint into the overlap to make it all the more effective.
Shaw is guilty of two things, usually.
1. Not overlapping with aggressiveness when the situation clearly presents itself.
2. Rarely sprinting off-the-ball to make the overlap effective as possible when it does occur.
Shaw isn't slow. In-fact, when he sprints he's incredibly quick, which is all the more baffling when you consider that you don't see many offensive sprints from him, compared to defensive ones.
Look where Pogba is, look where Sanchez is, look at Matic covering two, look at that player behind Shaw ready to break, and the player heading out of the back, there is no protection at all on that left and if he over commits we are done.
The previous week same similar scenario but protection provided and Sanchez back heels a ball in to his path. Swings and roundabouts.
To be honest I was surprised how happy everyone was with him even before his new contract, I gave him the benefit of the doubt because he's young but I've been gradually more disappointed with him the more the season's worn on. He's been "alright" this season, and for me that's not good enough really.
He definitely was never a 'beast' going forward, and I think your memory is playing tricks on you. He always, always, was thought of as a traditional fullback who was strong defensively but needed to develop going forward.
He became a better player when he was out injured and out of favour than he was in reality and now reality is simply coming in to line with his current level.
I completely agree...he's more of an "old school" full back than a modern day full back. But he does have a good left foot and can put in a good cross. He just doesn't do it enough. He usually plays behind his winger and leaves himself as an option for a pass back and then plays a safe ball. I would like to see him overlap more and be more of an offensive option...
He has already commited, but is doing nothing there. He was offering a passing option at best. The man behind him was already out of his control. If anything, he put Sanchez at the risk of losing the ball and potentially risking a counter. He was neither defending nor attacking, and we still had five other players behind the play for that matter.
Did you watch the video you posted?
It's just that I'm sure you could handpick a 3 minute long video (including 15 secs of him taking a freekick in training and picking his nose at the start) of him not really doing that much of note based off of this season, and he's still getting (rightfully) criticised for what he has contributed.
Hell, it would probably be a better video as you could include his goal and four assists this season rather than cutting it out when he fails to pick someone out.
I realise the CAF has the attention span of a nat so thought the shorter video was the best option but there are loads more examplesand longer videos if you care to look.
Yeah. And I'd rather take the risk of over committing than just not bothering trying to score. You don't pull defences around without taking a bit of a risk positionally. A quality team should be looking to adapt on the fly, but that exact move should be drilled for anyway, surely?
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/luke-shaw-2015-16-performances.406519/page-6
Going back to the games before his leg break, it is amazing how everyone was raving about him and Darmian, how one is world class and the other is a bombing attacking force. Now Darmian is deadwood, and playing Shaw is tolerating mediocrity. I wonder how long it would take before Dalot and Shaw's would-be replacement become deadwood too.
Going back to the games before his leg break, it is amazing how everyone was raving about him and Darmian, how one is world class and the other is a bombing attacking force. Now Darmian is deadwood, and playing Shaw is tolerating mediocrity. I wonder how long it would take before Dalot and Shaw's would-be replacement become deadwood too.
Lacks intelligence as well as crossing ability. Constantly stands too close to a teammate in possession giving them very little options.
There are many examples of teammates telling him to make a run or where he should be.
There are many examples of teammates telling him to make a run or where he should be.
I'm sure that's true, but you'd think if you're distilling it down to three minutes you could create a genuinely impressive montage and I'm just not sure that's either particularly impressive or vastly different to his performances this season.
In fact, I think it does a pretty good job of summing up Shaw's problems going forward. He has a good burst of pace and can drive a team forward in the middle third, but he severely lacks quality in the final third — particularly with his crossing.
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