[Andersons Dietician]

You are right, he was very good when give a run of games, then Young went straight back in after the suspension for no reason.

it just perpetuates this narrative that is being peddled that he is effectively another Bebe and a complete waster. He probably deserved to stay in the team upon Young’s return, if he screwed up or just his performances dropped then put Young back in. Just seemed like a clear message that no matter the performance levels Young was first choice.

Hopefully with Young probably coming back to training later if we don’t get a LB Shaw can come out the blocks flying like he did for LVG and cement that place in pre season.

 

[Stacks]

Yeah there's a huge myth that he's an amazing attacking fullback just because he's fast, and yes, he still is fast. He's pretty solid defensively though.

Gary Neville says he is the best crosser at United.

When I see his name I feel sad. I feel the ship is sailing with him and he should've kicked on and been going to this world cup while instead he is watching from home, with Ashley Young and Delph (32 year old and 28 year old) midfielders ahead of him. Its fascinating. He should have been Baines successor.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Alex Sandro 35 assists in 309 games
Luke Shaw 7 assists in 141 games.

Certainly needs to step it up and should have more assists to his name. Some of the finishing at Southampton wasn’t great and we haven’t been a good attacking team since Fergie left. Shaw should also have a few goals to his name.

People saying he isn’t a good offensive FB are probably just going off stats and didn’t watch him at Southampton where he was a really good offensive Fb opening up defences,starting attacks and getting in the box and cutting the ball back. He’s not a curl a ball in type of player. That needs improvement for sure, what he was good at was binning a few players or his fullback and cutting a ball across the box which so happens to be what I would say having watched Lukaku at Everton is what he wants and what he is best at. For whatever reason we don’t play to either of these players strengths.

Even this season when he went forward we saw his ability to pick out a pass and be a lot more creative than just crossing a ball in. Seem to recall he and Mata clicking quite well and Shaw played a ball in that Pogba and Carrick would be proud of and that wasn’t the only one.

 

[Hojoon]

Shaw's good in the buildup and is calm under pressure with his touch, passing and physical abilities, but his crosses have always been poor. Not dissimilar to Evra actually in terms of style.

 

[Canagel]

That's because he's fast and strong. He's a headless chicken going forward, and he was never a good offensive fullback with Southampton.

3 assists in 133 games says it all.

I think he lost something since the injury. At the beginning of 15/16 he was very attacking, always making runs, creating chances. Even the tackle in that CL game came after a great run into the box. Now he's tentative and doesn't try. I don't know what he was like at Southampton but from what I saw in 2015/16 he should be given one more chance to see if he can reproduce that form.

 

[breakout67]

Shaw's good in the buildup and is calm under pressure with his touch, passing and physical abilities, but his crosses have always been poor. Not dissimilar to Evra actually in terms of style.

So Luke Shaw is basically nice to watch with the ball? Doesn't actually accomplish anything with it but he'll control a ball well.

Evra comparison is baffling since he was fantastic in the final third. His timing of runs was perfect and would pitch in with goals and assists.

It's clear cognitive dissonance to suggest that Luke Shaw is good going forward yet has virtually nothing to show for it. All the good attacking full backs get regular assists and some even pitch in with goals.

There are two balls that are bread and butter for fullbacks, the cut back to the edge of the box and the ball across the line. If you can put in those whipped crosses similar to set pieces that's a bonus. Luke Shaw comes short on all of these.

 

[rotherham_red]

So Luke Shaw is basically nice to watch with the ball? Doesn't actually accomplish anything with it but he'll control a ball well.

Evra comparison is baffling since he was fantastic in the final third. His timing of runs was perfect and would pitch in with goals and assists.

It's clear cognitive dissonance to suggest that Luke Shaw is good going forward yet has virtually nothing to show for it. All the good attacking full backs get regular assists and some even pitch in with goals.

There are two balls that are bread and butter for fullbacks, the cut back to the edge of the box and the ball across the line. If you can put in those whipped crosses similar to set pieces that's a bonus. Luke Shaw comes short on all of these.

I loved Evra, but let's be real, his productivity outside of one or two fruitful periods wasn't great. He was committed and diligent defensively but his attacking thrust wasn't matched with the output.

I think what colours people's perceptions over Evra was that he came in to displace Heinze, who was a pretty basic fullback.

 

[haram]

I don't think Evra's crossing was that good, his link play and runs in attacking areas was though.

 

[Hojoon]

So Luke Shaw is basically nice to watch with the ball? Doesn't actually accomplish anything with it but he'll control a ball well.

Evra comparison is baffling since he was fantastic in the final third. His timing of runs was perfect and would pitch in with goals and assists.

It's clear cognitive dissonance to suggest that Luke Shaw is good going forward yet has virtually nothing to show for it. All the good attacking full backs get regular assists and some even pitch in with goals.

There are two balls that are bread and butter for fullbacks, the cut back to the edge of the box and the ball across the line. If you can put in those whipped crosses similar to set pieces that's a bonus. Luke Shaw comes short on all of these.

Evra was obviously a higher level but I was talking about style, not quality. Evra's crossing was inconsistent and he had one year where he scored a few headers from set pieces, but on the whole he's averaged about a goal per season. His main contribution was his buildup play and being able to patrol the entire flank thanks to his stamina, things Shaw is good at. The problem with Shaw is that his crossing is downright terrible, it's not even inconsistent.

 

[flappyjay]

He is less likely to pass back to the cb unlike Valencia and Young, he seems to better than them on the ball. He is a lot more comfortable on the ball than them. His biggest flaw is that his crossing ability is atrocious. I think he beats young in most categories but Young trumps him with his goal scoring ability and crossing ability which is far more important for a club like United. But we have to also remember that he has barely played football in the past three years because of his two long term injuries. I would really like to see how he would fare in a season where he is fully fit. Last year he clawed his way back to get ahead of darmian and Blind. If he works on his offensive game then getting ahead of young will not be hard

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Starting to feel like we should be strapped in and ready for numerous newspaper stories about Luke Shaw being "hurt and confused" by Jose's criticism, accompanied by a full-page photograph of Shaw in training gear looking 5-stone overweight and adorned with a pair of sizeable moobs. While Mourinho also repeatedly moans to the media about "having to rely on Ashley Young" too much and not having any other option.

 

[K2K]

He was looking so good before that leg break

Valencia also broke his leg.

Came back and in the next season was our player of the season.

Shaw struggled before his leg break. Struggled after it.

 

[K2K]

Starting to feel like we should be strapped in and ready for numerous newspaper stories about Luke Shaw being "hurt and confused" by Jose's criticism, accompanied by a full-page photograph of Shaw in training gear looking 5-stone overweight and adorned with a pair of sizeable moobs. While Mourinho also repeatedly moans to the media about "having to rely on Ashley Young" too much and not having any other option.

I think we are definitely interested in Sandro.

And Juventus definitely interested in Darmian. Someone will blink first.

 

[breakout67]

I loved Evra, but let's be real, his productivity outside of one or two fruitful periods wasn't great. He was committed and diligent defensively but his attacking thrust wasn't matched with the output.

I think what colours people's perceptions over Evra was that he came in to displace Heinze, who was a pretty basic fullback.

Evra's productivity was in fact good for a full back. It's not Dani Alves or Marcelo good, but it's much better than Shaws. I would say that between 2009 and 2014, Evra was a fantastic attacking fullback.

I remember he really struggled when he first got here, but once he found his feet you could be confident that he would make something happen in the final third.

Evra was obviously a higher level but I was talking about style, not quality. Evra's crossing was inconsistent and he had one year where he scored a few headers from set pieces, but on the whole he's averaged about a goal per season. His main contribution was his buildup play and being able to patrol the entire flank thanks to his stamina, things Shaw is good at. The problem with Shaw is that his crossing is downright terrible, it's not even inconsistent.

Goals are not important for fullbacks going forward, and neither is building play. Fullbacks are often the widest players on the pitch which makes building play from there inherently flawed due to only moving inwards. Fullbacks come at the end of attacking moves to supply the runners in the box.

Shaw is terrible at supplying runners in the box, and Evra was fantastic at supplying runners in the box.

 

[Brightonian]

Valencia also broke his leg.

Came back and in the next season was our player of the season.

Shaw struggled before his leg break. Struggled after it.

He was a kid. Terrible time to get such a serious injury. Have a heart.

 

[K2K]

He was a kid. Terrible time to get such a serious injury. Have a heart.

But it doesn't excuse some of his poor performances since. And fitness issues. You can't even blame Van Gaal or Jose for that.


I think this has simply not worked out for either party. He needs to go out and rebuild his career. We need reliability and quality.

 

[luke511]

But it doesn't excuse some of his poor performances since. And fitness issues. You can't even blame Van Gaal or Jose for that.


I think this has simply not worked out for either party. He needs to go out and rebuild his career. We need reliability and quality.

He hasn't had a consistent run of games under Mourinho yet though. Could you imagine if a peak Rooney broke his leg, was out for the season and didn't get a proper run of games for the next two, his fitness and performance levels would've been poor as well. Some players need that extended amount of game time to get back to their required fitness level and Shaw hasn't had it yet.

 

[K2K]

He hasn't had a consistent run of games under Mourinho yet though. Could you imagine if a peak Rooney broke his leg, was out for the season and didn't get a proper run of games for the next two, his fitness and performance levels would've been poor as well. Some players need that extended amount of game time to get back to their required fitness level and Shaw hasn't had it yet.

His fitness issues predate his leg break.


So much so that Van Gaal called him out on it. It's his job to get fit and then earn Jose's trust. Not the other way round.

It seems like so many excuses are made for Shaw.

 

[K2K]

He hasn't had a consistent run of games under Mourinho yet though. Could you imagine if a peak Rooney broke his leg, was out for the season and didn't get a proper run of games for the next two, his fitness and performance levels would've been poor as well. Some players need that extended amount of game time to get back to their required fitness level and Shaw hasn't had it yet.

And I don't have imagine the Rooney thing. Off tangent but he was painful to watch in his last few years here.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Valencia also broke his leg.

Came back and in the next season was our player of the season.

Shaw struggled before his leg break. Struggled after it.

That's harsh, visually at least Shaw's was worse, and came just at young age, and at time when he was really starting to show what all the fuss was about, he also came back under a different manager who has never really had much trust, and has seemed to single him out for not apparent reason.

Personally I'd sell him, because I can't see much changing under Jose, but I wouldn't mind betting he'll have us regretting it pretty quickly under the right manager.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

poor performances

which ones? Because there must have been very few as off my head I can’t recall a game where he had a shocker. Had a hard time against Newcastle as he was doubled up or tripled up on because Sanchez and Pogba I think it was decided they didn’t want to defend that day. Yet somehow Shaw still dealt with it.

 

[Red Royal]

Really feel for the young lad. A few years ago he'd have been expecting to be in that plane to Russia. Instead he aeea his club mate Young converting himself to a LB and himself riducles in public by his boss.

I am happy that we haven't spent 50M on Sansro as there is a great player in there with Shaw. Need a to get his head down and he can still make it at OT.

 

[Ali Dia]

I think a leg break is a huge injury to overcome and he hasn’t managed to yet. As if slotting in at United isn’t hard enough anyway. He seems like he may not be the strongest mentally and Jose’s tough love probably isn’t really helping him, it’s all against him at the minute but I’d give him another season. Jose wanted him at Chelsea, I hope they can repair their relationship and shaw can kick on or failing that move aside for a better LB. he’s a good player but I totally understand people’s fristrations with him. On a side note so many of our signings have flopped post Fergie.

 

[Womp]

Yes, let's give Shaw yet another season to let us down. The problem with this club is this unconditional trust in all the players. At other top clubs, if a player doesn't perform, they're gone. They don't spend season upon season talking about injuries, the manager not getting the best out of them, if only they were fit etc. He might go on to be a good player, but it won't be here. It didn't work under LVG, it isn't working under Mourinho and I'd wager it wouldn't work under another manager who was to come in either.

Things between us and Shaw is just stale now. He needs a move to revitalize his career, at a smaller a club preferably where he can play far more often and there is far less expectation. I like Shaw, I want to see him do well, but it's just so obvious it's not going to be here. He has regressed if anything since he joined.

 

[K2K]

That's harsh, visually at least Shaw's was worse, and came just at young age, and at time when he was really starting to show what all the fuss was about, he also came back under a different manager who has never really had much trust, and has seemed to single him out for not apparent reason.

Personally I'd sell him, because I can't see much changing under Jose, but I wouldn't mind betting he'll have us regretting it pretty quickly under the right manager.

I think that is the biggest reason people don't want him sold..

I could understand if he had only been here for a year or 2. But we need to get to a point when we can cut the chord when things are clearly not working out..ala Anderson.

Look at most of the players we have gotten rid of over the last few years. Lots of them have gone on to prove us right which just shows that we probably needed to have sold them earlier.

We need to go get a solid reliable fullback ths that can cross. We need to do what's best for United.

 

[Mindhunter]

I think that is the biggest reason people don't want him sold..

I could understand if he had only been here for a year or 2. But we need to get to a point when we can cut the chord when things are clearly not working out..ala Anderson.

Look at most of the players we have gotten rid of over the last few years. Lots of them have gone on to prove us right which just shows that we probably needed to have sold them earlier.

We need to go get a solid reliable fullback ths that can cross. We need to do what's best for United.

And who is going to head them in? Lukaku or Fellaini? We need an intelligent full back who knows when to recycle play and when to play a direct ball. Someone with the vision to pick up runners into the box or play through balls to Lukaku. Also, the LB needs to be on the same page as Sanchez. If he is going to cut in, the LB needs to push wider and provide the width. We are missing all of these things and playing Young as LB who is stronger with his right foot.

 

[K2K]

which ones? Because there must have been very few as off my head I can’t recall a game where he had a shocker. Had a hard time against Newcastle as he was doubled up or tripled up on because Sanchez and Pogba I think it was decided they didn’t want to defend that day. Yet somehow Shaw still dealt with it.

They are plenty over the last few years. And one doesn't need to have an absolute shocker to be called as having a poor perfomance. Thats setting the bar ridiculously low. Especially for a club like United.

You never see this kind of excuses or leeway made for other players either. Valencia for example is rightly slated for his poor attacking contributions but Shaw is hardly a shining light in that regard.

 

[K2K]

And who is going to head them in? Lukaku or Fellaini? We need an intelligent full back who knows when to recycle play and when to play a direct ball. Someone with the vision to pick up runners into the box or play through balls to Lukaku. Also, the LB needs to be on the same page as Sanchez. If he is going to cut in, the LB needs to push wider and provide the width. We are missing all of these things and playing Young as LB who is stronger with his right foot.

Lukaku is a fantastic header of the ball. So yeah that would actually help us very much.

I'm not saying Young offers us the total package. Far from it. But he does offer is more especially in an attacking sense. But we need more.

 

[Mindhunter]

Lukaku is a fantastic header of the ball. So yeah that would actually help us very much.

I'm not saying Young offers us the total package. Far from it. But he does offer is more especially in an attacking sense. But we need more.

He is more of a physical presence than a header of the ball. He likes to run into space, not stand shoulder to shoulder against the CB. We need more intelligent LBs, not players who can run down the flanks and cross it into the box. Rest of it I agree with.

 

[flappyjay]

First season his attitude and fitness were questioned by Lvg, he let him self down but he took the managers words to heart and worked hard during his summer break and came back looking like a prospect that was worth 30m. Then the leg break happened.

My argument for him staying is that so far both seasons for him under Mourinho were spent trying to gain fitness in the first half of the season after long term injuries. When he finally started to get games under Jose in 16/17 He hurt his foot and was out for a 100 days. Which meant he spent the fist half of 17/18 getting over his foot injury by playing for the u23's. That's why I am curious to see what we will get from him after a proper summer rest followed by his first pre season in two seasons. This is why I feel selling him would short sighted.

It took aaron Ramsey about three years to get over his leg break. It took Radamel falcao a couple of seasons to look like a footballer again after his acl. I just wonder why people don't take this into context with Shaw. Chelsea don't seem to want to sell Zouma too because they understand it takes long to get over these long term injuries. Zlatan went from scoring 28 goals for a premier league team to struggling to score in the mls

 

[TwoSheds]

First season his attitude and fitness were questioned by Lvg, he let him self down but he took the managers words to heart and worked hard during his summer break and came back looking like a prospect that was worth 30m. Then the leg break happened.

My argument for him staying is that so far both seasons for him under Mourinho were spent trying to gain fitness in the first half of the season after long term injuries. When he finally started to get games under Jose in 16/17 He hurt his foot and was out for a 100 days. Which meant he spent the fist half of 17/18 getting over his foot injury by playing for the u23's. That's why I am curious to see what we will get from him after a proper summer rest followed by his first pre season in two seasons. This is why I feel selling him would short sighted.

It took aaron Ramsey about three years to get over his leg break. It took Radamel falcao a couple of seasons to look like a footballer again after his acl. I just wonder why people don't take this into context with Shaw. Chelsea don't seem to want to sell Zouma too because they understand it takes long to get over these long term injuries. Zlatan went from scoring 28 goals for a premier league team to struggling to score in the mls

Pretty sure he's banging about 1 in 2 in the MLS tbf...

https://www.mlssoccer.com/players/zlatan-ibrahimovic

Don't know what all the bullshit abbreviations mean but I'm guessing either G or GS is goals, A is assists and GP is games played.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

They are plenty over the last few years. And one doesn't need to have an absolute shocker to be called as having a poor perfomance. Thats setting the bar ridiculously low. Especially for a club like United.

You never see this kind of excuses or leeway made for other players either. Valencia for example is rightly slated for his poor attacking contributions but Shaw is hardly a shining light in that regard.

Difference between Shaw and Valencia is we see Valencia do pretty much the exact same thing for 50-60 games a season and he’s been doing that for 3 years.

Shaw’s issue looks like it could easily be fixed with some confidence and a run of games, you watch him and he looks caught in two minds as what to do in an attacking sense. Stay and protect or go forward.

At least with Shaw when he does go forward he does quite well getting in to dangerous positions which is something that can’t be said for any of our other fullbacks. His final ball isn’t great no one can dispute that it needs working on.

He seems to have had this lack of confidence to go forward since last season when Jose chewed him out against Watford when Martial had the ball, Shaw broke in to space looking for the pass but Martial lost the ball and Watford I think scored from it. Jose nailed Shaw’s balls to the wall for that. Ever since then he’s looked scared to really go forward as much as you would want. Shocking/poor performances tho, not really, as he has defended well, been great in the air in lots of these games counter acting the lack of final 3rd action.

 

[TheReligion]

I want Shaw to do well but surely its not just a coincidence that Adkins, Poch, LvG and Mou have all commented on his fitness/dedication over the years?

The lad is talented but let's not make out he hadn't had a chance. He's had some bad luck yes but he's also been trusted by the club and supported for several years now. I'd be happy with Shaw as our LB going into the new season of Jose thinks he mentally capable. If not we should just get him off the wage bill and bring in someone else.

 

[K2K]

He is more of a physical presence than a header of the ball. He likes to run into space, not stand shoulder to shoulder against the CB. We need more intelligent LBs, not players who can run down the flanks and cross it into the box. Rest of it I agree with.

He does seem to bang them in quite well for Belgium though.

I'll admit he's not Morata level in the air .That one is brilliant at it.

 

[K2K]

Difference between Shaw and Valencia is we see Valencia do pretty much the exact same thing for 50-60 games a season and he’s been doing that for 3 years.

Shaw’s issue looks like it could easily be fixed with some confidence and a run of games, you watch him and he looks caught in two minds as what to do in an attacking sense. Stay and protect or go forward.

At least with Shaw when he does go forward he does quite well getting in to dangerous positions which is something that can’t be said for any of our other fullbacks. His final ball isn’t great no one can dispute that it needs working on.

He seems to have had this lack of confidence to go forward since last season when Jose chewed him out against Watford when Martial had the ball, Shaw broke in to space looking for the pass but Martial lost the ball and Watford I think scored from it. Jose nailed Shaw’s balls to the wall for that. Ever since then he’s looked scared to really go forward as much as you would want. Shocking/poor performances tho, not really, as he has defended well, been great in the air in lots of these games counter acting the lack of final 3rd action.

I don't think it's just down to Jose's lack of faith in him only though. Although I'm not necessarily advocating the tough love process .

I just think we can't rely on him. Why not get someone that can do both what Shaw can and can't do. We have given him 4 years. Sufficient time imo.

 

[el3mel]

Let's be honest. He's very untrustworthy to say the least. I hardly think anyone here who wants him to get chances will trust him to play against any top RW in the league or play in any big match. Will anyone trust him to do a similar defensive performance as Young did against Salah ? For me, no. He's at a moment a player you give chances against smaller teams to regain fitness but you can't be talking seriously if you think you can trust him to play against Sterling or Salah and be able to contain them.

 

[red4ever 79]

Swap him with the kid from Fulham

 

[AR87]

His lack of fitness is more damning than anything else. I'm not even talking about how he looks, which I often think is decieving as he's just a big lad. It's that you can visibily see his levels drop over 90 minutes to the point that usually by the 70 minute mark he's a total non-factor in getting us forward.

Young isn't very good, but I could never accuse him of not maximizing every bit of his ability or not being in excellent condition, even when returning from injury. The same simply can't be said for Shaw.

 

[AlexUTD]

Swap him with the kid from Fulham

That kid is more a left wing, than a left back.

 

[AlexUTD]

He is more of a physical presence than a header of the ball. He likes to run into space, not stand shoulder to shoulder against the CB. We need more intelligent LBs, not players who can run down the flanks and cross it into the box. Rest of it I agree with.

What??

Lukaku scored 21 goals with his head out of 101 premier league goals.

20% of goals scored on his head and not really a header of the ball? Really