If he's smart and it's all media invention he should go to Jose and say it, both of them should solve this like mature men.
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He is what he is,thats not mine fault. My comment was about people just taking sides,its either far left or far right,when in reality doubt that either side is 100% correct.
Double standards and hypocrites on steroids,thats all. Those pro JM,slagging Shaw,tell him to feck off,would be first having a pop at JM in 2 years time (in case he wins feck all),if Shaw leaves United and turns out to be great LB. Same thing about their views regarding Shaw and briefing media,now its not ok and they are enemy,while last season that cnut Custis was CAF`s best friend for having a go at LvG,then players or whoever leaked info about LvG`s methods this and that but then it was a good did,players werent scums like now just because LvG was on other side.
In opposite corner you have those anti JM,they dont like him doing this kind of stuff in public and also they saying how we turning on player who might be great for us in X years time,while showing support for someone who might be here managing for like 2 years.
I am United supporter and this whole discussion looks more and more like a war between fans of persons in question then debate about whats the best for United as football club.
All true, nice post.
I'm just backing Jose in this and think Shaw shouldn't run to the media to say how baffled he is.
I bet the last stuff about him being baffled is a media invention to stir shit up.
He's a goner.
Last season he was flying down that left hand side looking like a superstar in the making, now eveything is in tatters. fecking hell, Shaw and Mou should get together and talk about it like men and start from scratch. I am sure this could be resolved, but i dont see this ending well eventually.
If he feels he's been unfairly called out then it's not that strange he's talking to the press when his manager was the one to bring the topic up.
It's the wrong attitude to have though. What do you think fergie would do to him if he started leaking stuff to the press in a similar situation? He'd be out the door right away. We hardly ever saw it happen because Fergie was untouchable here, and the players knew it, so it was up to them to perform or they were gone. Since Fergie retired, we've had 2 managers sacked and now despite Mourinho being a world class manager, a few early struggles and people like Shaw think they can get away with doing the same shit that wouldn't ever happen under Sir Alex. It's time that our manager has a bit of an untouchable status again, so the players shut up and stop complaining. The manager is allowed to criticize players and call them out when they aren't doing something right. It's the players' job to shut up and move on. Not comlain in the press. Players and managers should in no way be equal when it comes to things like that.
Good post
You're conveniently ignoring the fact that Fergie wouldn't be having that conversation in the press in the first place. He'd give it to Shaw straight. It's a humiliating situation for Shaw to be placed in and people don't deal well with humiliation. That's the manager's fault.
Would be devasted if he left, he's arguably our most promising talent. It isnt working out for Martial, Rashford, Shaw, Fosumensah, I dont think that are coincidences.
Doesn't really matter whether he's right or wrong to feel that way about it though Mourinho has spent the past couple of weeks publicly questioning his players commitment and desire. If Shaw's response is to run to the press and whinge then its not going to endear him to Mourinho.
I like Shaw, and I do think it was harsh for Mourinho to call him out given what he's been through, and I sincerely hope that Jamie Jackson has pulled this out of his arse, but if he hasn't then there's no point beating around the bush. Its a terrible mistake from Shaw and his camp and it won't be looked on kindly.
It's also because Ferguson didn't come out and slag off individuals very often, certainly not questioning the professionalism of someone who has struggled to come back from an horrific injury, and when he did so it was usually because he'd already decided that he wanted them gone (Nani and Rooney in his last season). If Mourinho has already decided he doesn't want Shaw then him briefing doesn't really matter and if Mourinho wants to keep Shaw then surely the best way to help him is not to keep slagging him off to the press and be a more considerate of Shaw's particular circumstances.
I get people on here getting pissed off with the players (rightly so) and wanting a manager to be harsh on all of them but Ferguson's an example of someone who knew how to get the best out of each player by treating them as individuals who need to be managed differently. You're also right that the manager should be above the players but he does need to build relationships with them and gain their trust (some of them must have doubts about him given how his last job ended) and his constant bitching about talented players like Shaw, Mkhitaryan and even Martial is causing at least some of the briefings against him.
You don't know what's taken place between Shaw and Mourinho, I'd hazard a guess and say this isn't the first time something like this has been brought up between the two.
Either way, what Mourinho said wasn't some horrible humiliating statement, he was basically challenging players to stand up and be counted for. If Shaw can't handle that then I'm not sure he should be here anyway.
I like Shaw a lot and think he has a ton of potential but he's got it all to prove at United still.
It absolutely is. I'm hoping Shaw and Mourinho work it out somehow. Also, not sure the directors will be keen on selling Shaw - he's English, has talent and is young. On the other hand, if he can't handle United, then there's no point. But I would hope him and Jose can be professional enough to work through until at least until the end of the season.
Isn't this the attitude Mourinho wants? He's standing up for himself. He's already been called out once this season and seemed to take that pretty good. This time however it seemed completely unnecessary to take this with the media. The fans are getting on Shaw's back as well cause of this. There's nothing strange about wanting to defend yourself if you feel you're being unfairly treated.
Yes, the manager is allowed to criticize and call players out, but there's smart ways to do it and there's this way. Mourinho will never get an untouchable status at this club with an approach like this only 10-15 games into his tenure, that's for sure. It's a recipe for disaster.
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Sir Alex held no punches when he took over 30 years ago, he broke up the drinking culture and pushed out some very popular players. Mourinho is digging out the weak minded, if Shaw can't get himself into the condition needed to play for our club, then he needs to move on and find a club that accepts players overweight.
The only thing I find a little bit sad about all this was his form before injury, Van Gaal really did crack on to this weight issue, he basically took him out of the team until he managed to get himself in acceptable condition.
The only thing I find a little bit sad about all this was his form before injury, Van Gaal really did crack on to this weight issue, he basically took him out of the team until he managed to get himself in acceptable condition.
Why not? Rashford has played a lot of games this season?
Yeah misused as a defensive winger, he was doing fine up top.
TFM's been fine?
That means it isn't working out?
What's your conclusion, Jose is destroying young players on purpose?
More of the right side of a front three? You'd just drop Zlatan then and chuck Rashford up top?
Yeah it's bullshit. If Jose didn't play him, which wouldn't be that unreasonable considerable we have Ibra as a striker, and Martial as a winger, the old chestnut about him being unwilling to play young players would come up.
Let's hope Shaw puts his head down and works his ass off and gets back to full fitness and favour.
He also needs to play better. He doesn't beat players. He barely makes runs. He hardly ever crosses or links well with his winger.
He also needs to play better. He doesn't beat players. He barely makes runs. He hardly ever crosses or links well with his winger.
Mourinho looking like a disaster. Anyway hope his treatment of Shaw, Mkhitaryan and Martial continues and fans back him. Those three arent players you'd guess have bad attitudes however its become nearly fact here. Can't believe United fans cant see similarities to Chelsea fans who booed Hazard and Diego Costa after Mourinho was sacked thinking they were the negative influences that got him sacked and not himself. You would think after seeing how happy Chelsea players are and the constant digs Eden Hazard seems to have for Mourinho United fans would think twice about backing a man who didnt rate Kevin de Bruyne but it seems not.
It seems United fans are desperate to believe in a manager who has only won 42% of his last 40 games and whos ability to manage at the top level has come into serious question. By all means go ahead, you will regret it though.
He nearly done irreversible damage at Chelsea as Costa would of likely left if he remained Hazard also. Would t surprise me if Martial, Shaw and Mkhitaryan left while Young, Fellaini and Lingard become mainstays; and you wonder why you struggle to compete for the title.
It seems United fans are desperate to believe in a manager who has only won 42% of his last 40 games and whos ability to manage at the top level has come into serious question. By all means go ahead, you will regret it though.
He nearly done irreversible damage at Chelsea as Costa would of likely left if he remained Hazard also. Would t surprise me if Martial, Shaw and Mkhitaryan left while Young, Fellaini and Lingard become mainstays; and you wonder why you struggle to compete for the title.
Remind me again how many titles Hazard has won? And who the manager was at the time?
Fergie made mistakes with individual players but his was always the final word and he had the trophy cabinet to back it up. So does Mourinho.
Has got to be one of the funniest things I've read on here in a while, thanks. Imagine thinking a manager that only two years ago convincingly walked the premier league is finished.That being said, I'd like to question Pep's ability to manage at the top level in the champions league. Been 5 years since he won it and hasn't managed to even get close with another team apart from Barca, fraud of a manager. lol
I agree with both sides of the argument.
I agree that Jose needs to toughen some players up. Particularly ones like Shaw who've never won anything before. Some players needs to realize that playing here is a privilege and not a right because you had potential or a great season a year ago. No one should feel entitled to a spot which seems to be an issue.
In defense of Shaw, if he wasn't feeling it, I'd rather he not play. We don't need a player on the pitch whose scared. Last time we forced someone to play, Hargreaves didn't even last 10 minutes and we got the hilarity of the Bebe crossing show.
I agree that Jose needs to toughen some players up. Particularly ones like Shaw who've never won anything before. Some players needs to realize that playing here is a privilege and not a right because you had potential or a great season a year ago. No one should feel entitled to a spot which seems to be an issue.
In defense of Shaw, if he wasn't feeling it, I'd rather he not play. We don't need a player on the pitch whose scared. Last time we forced someone to play, Hargreaves didn't even last 10 minutes and we got the hilarity of the Bebe crossing show.
That being said, I'd like to question Pep's ability to manage at the top level in the champions league. Been 5 years since he won it and hasn't managed to even get close with another team apart from Barca, fraud of a manager. lol
You just compared a manager who won the PL 2 years ago to a manager who won the CL 5 years ago. Bearing in mind José returned to Chelsea, a team that was already half his team. We all know what happened afterwards.
One of the funniest posts iv seen
You just compared a manager who won the PL 2 years ago to a manager who won the CL 5 years ago. Bearing in mind José returned to Chelsea, a team that was already half his team. We all know what happened afterwards.
One of the funniest posts iv seen
You must not understand sarcasm. Even still, even if I wasn't joking, Jose won it a whole one year before Pep's last win, with an inferior team mind. Not to add the small fact that you know, Jose didn't have a 50 goal a season Messi and managed to win it with two different squads instead of just the one.
Pep can do no wrong though, the fact that he took over treble winners and couldn't make a single CL final wasn't a dissapontment at all. I'm sure Bayern were happy with the Bundesliga, a trophy they would win without a manager.
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You must not understand sarcasm. Even still, even if I wasn't joking, Jose won it a whole one year before Pep, with an inferior team mind. Not to add the small fact that you know, Jose didn't have a 50 goal a season Messi and managed to win it with two different squads instead of just the one.
Pep can do no wrong though, the fact that he took over treble winners and couldn't make a single CL final wasn't a dissapontment at all. I'm sure Bayern were happy with the bundesliga, a trophy they would win without a manager.
I don't think pep is the holy grail of football but admire his willingness to try different things even if they fail. This is why he is superior to Jose because ultimately if Jose struggles he is incapable 0f making changes - he plays to one formation & if he fails its through stubbornness. Pep can fail but is willing to try something new - aka 352 at bayern.
These are legitimate excuses compared to the dribble that comes from 0ur manager.
Sorry for not understanding sarcasm BTW.
Eh, they're both two of the best managers of their generation. Just find people using the Jose is finished argument funny is all. The majority of his short-comings are all because he's a paranoid prick, not because of his ability as a manager.
Huh? Pep is one of the most stubborn managers on the planet. He resolutely refuses to change his playing style for anyone or anything, even when it's not working.
Added to the fact that for some reason he is comfortable talking about the post LVG effects but no one comments about the post Jose effects. He can literally tear a club down to shreds.
Said it before; would not be surprised if a youngster like shaw or martial are a few mistakes from being shoved 0ut the door like KDB.
All the pre- appointment talk about his unwillingness to play youth has so far come true. When they do play they are played in uncomfortable positions.
I mean Rashford was a below average winger for the reserves & right now he is looking exactly the same.
IV seen 4 3 3, 352, 442 against us.
Ideology is 1 thing, the approach is different.
Jose has played 451 since his birth. Just so dull watching it - couldn't be fussed if Zlatan scored a jujitsu style bycicle kick his approach to tactics & gameplag is trash and boring.
He's played with two strikers before. Hell, we've even played with two strikers this season.
That's BS
He's not been played as a defensive winger at all.And Mourinho has largely kept faith with him even in poor form.
Wasn't Pep saying just a few weeks ago how he will not change his style for anyone?
He's played like 4 matches at best, and those where mostly cameo's.
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