Luis Suarez

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Pogue Mahone said:
While I admit you can argue there's a moral distinction between racially abusing a black man because you hate black people and racially abusing a black man because you're hoping it will give you an edge in a game of football, I think you can also argue that the perpetrator in either scenario is a cnut of the highest order.

If said cnut then refuses to shake the hand of the black man before their next game of football after being punished for said racial abuse well then, draw your own conclusions...
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I don't even think it's that distinguishable morally, both are cnutish acts which turn out hurting the victim and are embarrassing for everyone around them who has to witness that shit. What I think can be argued is whether there's a deeper meaning to it, i.e., can you draw any conclusion as to whether someone is racially prejudiced from "just" that or not? I think it's a much simpler question.

You look at one sentence from Donald Sterling famous remarks, and yes, you can tell that is a prejudiced man. From perhaps someone who never insulted a black man to his face. It exposes how he thinks. I'd say the only information you can glean from Suarez's remarks is that he's uneducated, dumb and a cnut. They don't add any insight into whether he's a racist or not, at least in my opinion.
 
Arruda said:
I don't even think it's that distinguishable morally, both are cnutish acts which turn out hurting the victim and are embarrassing for everyone around them who has to witness that shit. What I think can be argued is whether there's a deeper meaning to it, i.e., can you draw any conclusion as to whether someone is racially prejudiced from "just" that or not? I think it's a much simpler question.

You look at one sentence from Donald Sterling famous remarks, and yes, you can tell that is a prejudiced man. From perhaps someone who never insulted a black man to his face. It exposes how he thinks. I'd say the only information you can glean from Suarez's remarks is that he's uneducated, dumb and a cnut. They don't add any insight into whether he's a racist or not, at least in my opinion.
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I agree with all of that.

I just think "Suarez the racist" is convenient short-hand for "Suarez the horrible cheat, who once racially abused somebody because he thought it might help him win a game of football". It's less of a mouthful.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I agree with all of that.

I just think "Suarez the racist" is convenient short-hand for "Suarez the horrible cheat, who once racially abused somebody because he thought it might help him win a game of football". It's less of a mouthful.
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I feel similarly
 
unitedbhoy said:
He's on par with Messi and Ronaldo at the moment, in terms of ability and effectiveness on the pitch.
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I would say he is even ahead of Ronaldo, He carried that uruguay team yesterday Ronaldo was invisible for Portugal when they played.

Suarez is every where on the pitch it's scary how good he is.
 
Jesus, guys, really?

Ronaldo is hurting, and you could say Suarez was effective, but far from brilliant yesterday. Rooney might've played better even (not having a better game obviously).
And on par with Messi?
 
Two goals against a shitty England defence and he's now ahead of Ronaldo? Christ.
 
Mrs Smoker said:
Jesus, guys, really?

Ronaldo is hurting, and you could say Suarez was effective, but far from brilliant yesterday. Rooney might've played better even (not having a better game obviously).
And on par with Messi?
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I wouldn't call Suarez 'effective' - that implies he scored two goals and that was it, Ronaldo style.

He was at the heart of most everything good Uruguay did. Not at his best, but still good enough to make a world of difference to his team's play, nevermind scoring two goals.
 
B20 said:
I wouldn't call Suarez 'effective' - that implies he scored two goals and that was it, Ronaldo style.

He was at the heart of most everything good Uruguay did. Not at his best, but still good enough to make a world of difference to his team's play, nevermind scoring two goals.
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But Uruguay did almost nothing good. England's defence was absolutely atrocious, a half decent side would have blown them away. I think Uruguay completed less than 50% of their passes. That's diabolical.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
But Uruguay did almost nothing good. England's defence was absolutely atrocious, a half decent side would have blown them away. I think Uruguay completed less than 50% of their passes. That's diabolical.
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They were all over them the first 10 minutes of the second half. Don't think you can say 'whatever they did wasn't because they were good but because we were bad', when that wasn't the case against costa rica.
 
Mrs Smoker said:
Jesus, guys, really?

Ronaldo is hurting, and you could say Suarez was effective, but far from brilliant yesterday. Rooney might've played better even (not having a better game obviously).
And on par with Messi?
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I thought Rooney played better as well, though Suarez made the most of his chances. Suarez is clearly up there with the best in the world though.
 
Vialli_92 said:
I would say he is even ahead of Ronaldo, He carried that uruguay team yesterday Ronaldo was invisible for Portugal when they played.

Suarez is every where on the pitch it's scary how good he is.
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He has still some way to go to match Ronaldo. 1 or 2 games don't put anyone ahead of the world player of the year.
 
Ronaldo was the top scorer in the Champions League for the second year running. Suarez was scoring loads of goals against Norwich. A little perspective, please.
 
Feckin Australia play better on this tournament than England. Not really hard to score against Jagielka and Cahill and when you'll add local boy Steve and Billy Idol wannabe as a goalkeeper I'm really surprised the score wasn't higher from Suarez.

That wasn't a test for him. All he got to do is wait for mistakes to happen and surprise, surprise - It happened.
 
J-Stander said:
I thought Rooney played better as well, though Suarez made the most of his chances. Suarez is clearly up there with the best in the world though.
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Rooney had a great performance, but Suárez was the difference maker and his clinical finishing and impressive movement won the game.

Rooney is often criticised here for doing what Suárez did yesterday. So often Rooney makes the difference for United despite perhaps not putting in a great overall performance, and yet he receives little credit for proving decisive. No surprise to see people detract from Suárez for doing the same.
 
SteveJ said:
I kinda agree with your first point but the 'heat of the moment thing' is a stretch to say the least - surely a frustrated or angry player's first resort isn't to racially abuse an opponent?
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Agreed. So he's not a racist but he'll use racist terms to wind up an opponent to win? So what exactly is he then? Besides a cnut.
 
Revan said:
Obviously Suarez having an Afro-American grandfather doesn't guarantee that he isn't a racist, but I think that it is unlikely that you both have DNA of a race an still abuse people of that race on a racist way. It is possible (and obviously if someone is a racist then he either is evil, or stupid or both so probably a normal person thinking doesn't work) but I would say that is unlikely. I also think that is different having black friends with having Afro-American origin.

I don't think that the sexist analogy works.

I have read the FA statement (Suarez differing his words while Evra being calm and staying by his word) and I was glad that Suarez got punished for it. Even if he didn't meant it ('negrito' in S.America in many circumstances is the equivalent of 'mate') he should have known that you can't use some words considering that he has lived in Europe for many years. However FA statement also says that they don't believe that Suarez is racist and that being accused for using racist words isn't the same as being racist. Considering his origin, his friends, what they say about him, I find very unlikely that Suarez is a racist despite that he used the n-word.
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It isn't really, though, irrespective of what some Liverpool fans might try and tell you. Even in Spanish it means "little black" person or man. Some spanish speakers might use it when talking to their friends or mates, and in that context it might be accepted in that instance as friendly, but it's still using someone's colour as a descriptive term, and I'm pretty sure Evra isn't his mate.
 
The Neviller said:
It isn't really, though, irrespective of what some Liverpool fans might try and tell you. Even in Spanish it means "little black" person or man. Some spanish speakers might use it when talking to their friends or mates, and in that context it might be accepted in that instance as friendly, but it's still using someone's colour as a descriptive term, and I'm pretty sure Evra isn't his mate.
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The transcript went beyond using that sort of terminology simply as a descriptor though. It was the stuff about kicking Evra "because you're black" that was the most offensive.
 
Probably the best player after Ronaldo and Messi at the moment but will always remain racist, cheating, biting, diving bastard and one of the biggest asshole the game has ever seen.
 
B20 said:
I wouldn't call Suarez 'effective' - that implies he scored two goals and that was it, Ronaldo style.

He was at the heart of most everything good Uruguay did. Not at his best, but still good enough to make a world of difference to his team's play, nevermind scoring two goals.
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This is why i hate when people bang on about Ronaldo all the time, he doesn't do enough over 90 minutes to warrant being called one of the best ever.

He is extremely effective in coming out of no where to score a goal or 2 but over 90 minutes he can be invisible for large periods of the game.

Suarez is every where on the pitch he fights for the whole 90 minutes and has that will to drag his team mates to a victory.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The transcript went beyond using that sort of terminology simply as a descriptor though. It was the stuff about kicking Evra "because you're black" that was the most offensive.
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Oh I know, "negrito" wasn't all he said, and he admitted as much. I'm just pointing out that even the tamest term, that Liverpool fans were quick to tell us is what he actually used, and how it's an ever so friendly term, is still a descriptive term that focuses purely on the colour of the person being described.
 
The Neviller said:
It isn't really, though, irrespective of what some Liverpool fans might try and tell you. Even in Spanish it means "little black" person or man. Some spanish speakers might use it when talking to their friends or mates, and in that context it might be accepted in that instance as friendly, but it's still using someone's colour as a descriptive term, and I'm pretty sure Evra isn't his mate.
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I haven't ever been to South America so I might be completely wrong. Even on web, usually those who explained that negrito isn't offensive were Liverpool fans.

Someone like @antohan could clarify this.
 
Vialli_92 said:
This is why i hate when people bang on about Ronaldo all the time, he doesn't do enough over 90 minutes to warrant being called one of the best ever.

He is extremely effective in coming out of no where to score a goal or 2 but over 90 minutes he can be invisible for large periods of the game.

Suarez is every where on the pitch he fights for the whole 90 minutes and has that will to drag his team mates to a victory.
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You can level the same criticism at Messi. Suarez has yet to prove himself in the CL. Talk of him being ahead of Ronaldo (the current world player of the year) is absurd.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
You can level the same criticism at Messi. Suarez has yet to prove himself in the CL. Talk of him being ahead of Ronaldo (the current world player of the year) is absurd.
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This. He was invisible V Chelsea when it matter the most for Liverpool.
 
The only thing that Suarez can match Ronaldo with is his sense of self importance. "How dare the English press criticise me for being a racist and a biter?"
 
Lance Uppercut said:
You can level the same criticism at Messi. Suarez has yet to prove himself in the CL. Talk of him being ahead of Ronaldo (the current world player of the year) is absurd.
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Tbh he only won that because Fifa extended that vote because it looked Ribery and France were going home. First time ever that has happened in a Balon d'or. Yes i will agree Messi has done that in the last season or so by going invisible for large periods but i'm talking about Suarez vs Ronaldo and for me i would take Suarez any day over Ronaldo.

Ronaldo was no where to be seen in the final this season as well, Messi has been Motm twice in a CL final.
 
Vialli_92 said:
Tbh he only won that because Fifa extended that vote because it looked Ribery and France were going home. First time ever that has happened in a Balon d'or. Yes i will agree Messi has done that in the last season or so by going invisible for large periods but i'm talking about Suarez vs Ronaldo and for me i would take Suarez any day over Ronaldo.

Ronaldo was no where to be seen in the final this season as well, Messi has been Motm twice in a CL final.
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And Suarez has done zero in the CL. Ronaldo scored 17 goals in it last season, including one in the final.
 
Bill.s.preston said:
The only thing that Suarez can match Ronaldo with is his sense of self importance. "How dare the English press criticise me for being a racist and a biter?"
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He is also cheating bastard though at levels which Ronaldo or anyone else can't match. So, a heir to Maradona I guess :rolleyes:
 
Vialli_92 said:
He still terrorised the teams though, if he doesn't score that means he must have a bad game then right? That kind of logic is crazy.
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He was poor in both Chelsea games and at the Emirates. He was brilliant at the Etihad and against Arsenal at Anfield. He was ok against City at Anfield.
 
Vialli_92 said:
Tbh he only won that because Fifa extended that vote because it looked Ribery and France were going home. First time ever that has happened in a Balon d'or. Yes i will agree Messi has done that in the last season or so by going invisible for large periods but i'm talking about Suarez vs Ronaldo and for me i would take Suarez any day over Ronaldo.

Ronaldo was no where to be seen in the final this season as well, Messi has been Motm twice in a CL final.
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Suarez has had two very good seasons in a top league compared to how many by Ronaldo?
 
Vialli_92 said:
He still terrorised the teams though, if he doesn't score that means he must have a bad game then right? That kind of logic is crazy.
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You know what else is crazy? This post:

Ronaldo scored a penalty in the final, 120 minutes of play and thats all he did? Some great player he is.
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I repeat, Ronaldo scored 17 goals in the Champions League last season. He was the top scorer in it. He was the top scorer in it the season before, too.

Suarez "terrorised" Norwich.
 
BarneyLFC said:
He was poor in both Chelsea games and at the Emirates. He was brilliant at the Etihad and against Arsenal at Anfield. He was ok against City at Anfield.
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Ye he wasn't brilliant but people act like if a guy doesn't score it means he's bad, that kind of logic does my head in.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
You know what else is crazy? This post:



I repeat, Ronaldo scored 17 goals in the Champions League last season. He was the top scorer in it. He was the top scorer in it the season before, too.

Suarez "terrorised" Norwich.
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I couldn't care how many Ronaldo scores in the CL, i would take Suarez over him all day long, that performance in the final was a disgrace.
 
What a thick person this guys is. "Goals answer my critics." No one has ever criticized your football but rather you being a racist, a biter, a diver, and a dirty tackler.

How do goals answer that? God he's thick and extremely unapolegtic considering the shit he's done. The English media didn't criticize you because they hate you, but because of the things you did.

You can get a 5 year old to understand that but not Luis Suarez, apparently.
 
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