forget talent. It is arguing about spending money you don't have. Rooney has offered much more and more consistently than Nani in effort, creativity and spirit. Arguing about inherent talent that does not help the team is a waste of time!
Luis Nani | 2013/14 Performances
- Thread starter Massive Spanner
- Start date
- Status
forget talent. It is arguing about spending money you don't have. Rooney has offered much more and more consistently than Nani in effort, creativity and spirit. Arguing about inherent talent that does not help the team is a waste of time!
Thought he was one of our best players today, really couldn't understand taking him off, especially for Zaha who was woeful.
Exactly. That isn't what I was arguing, but since we're here... I don't know why it was brought up in the first place. Rooney's application is far greater and has the better mentality. Nani is more talented, but talent doesn't mean much when the application is lacking. Overall though, my problem isn't with the wingers. There's only so much you can do. Our build-up play is horrific. We have a goalkeeper, who is very good with the ball at his feet, hoofing the ball. Design and system need to be revamped.
I'd say whilst of course Nani has had his issues form wise some of that is due to the fact that if he tries to be brave and do something like a trick/dribble etc and it doesn't come off he's usually punished for it, such as being benched. So that's gonna play in his mind. When you use someone like that you have to be willing to take a chance and accept that it won't always come off. There's no one around who consistently gets that right.
Obviously there's a middle ground where you need to produce more often than not but that's where I'd say Nani has had it rough because he's not given much time to actually get some form. He seems to be asked to really hit the ground running, where as Valencia with his much more cautious play seems to be given a lot of chances to get it right and it doesn't seem to be having a huge affect on his form. Let Nani have a solid run and see if he can get back to the player you described, he's never going to get there being in and out the team. If he's given that chance and he doesn't take it than fair enough, maybe he'll just be a squad player or be moved on, but I think we need to give him a proper chance to become the player he was.
I don't think you know what talent is. Nani is more talented than Rooney but that doesn't even matter. Keep going though.well, can't dispute with that. Just seems Moyes is hesitant to move away from 4-42 and he does not have player to make it work. Even if we do move to 4-2-3-1. we still do not have players to make it work apart from Kagawa who can play in the hole but still lacks support from both sides. Nani is untrustable and no on in the other wing is capable of such a fluid formation, forget the lack of experience. we are stuck with mediocre players but still the individual talent is till worth a draw, which Moyes still can't even get.
I think Rooney is more talented. The overhead kick against City, passes in the box , creativity all outranks whatever Nani has provided even in his best games. If you look at best of Nani vs best of Rooney, it will be much more obvious Rooney is better.
Oh dear.
What the feck?? I am a Nani fan but he's not more talented than Rooney ffs. Get a fecking grip
My trolling is on point.
My trolling is on point.
Classic MoneyMay! Says something, people disagree, so he back tracks.
Surprised you haven't accused people of misinterpreting the post
I think Moyes can change to a 4-3-3 if he wanted to, but he seems reluctant to for whatever reason. I just think that our system is flawed. We can't give teams midfield advantage because it will hurt us badly, we're allowing midfielders into the red zone because of the lack of compactness and our design is based on wing play, rather than variation through the middle and the wings, which would make us better. The current system needs to be revamped starting from the back, we have to play from the back. For me, the wingers aren't the problem at the moment. They can play much better, but at the same time we're not controlling games.
I don't think Nani is more talented. I thought that would make Theon mad and force him to make things up, which he's done. Job done.
Edit - Games like Shakhtar away are a highlight for me this season. There was midfield compactness and we forced them down the wings. Almost a perfect performance IMO.
I've just been in the MOTM thread and people actually have him in their top2. I mean, I know it's slim pickings and perhaps 3rd could be excused because after Januzaj and Hernandez it was a load of dross but 2nd? feck me.
He was frustrating today, as usual. That said, I'd still like to see him be given a nice long run of games.
He was frustrating today, as usual. That said, I'd still like to see him be given a nice long run of games.
Top post, mate, and spot on. I agree 100 %. Nani can do dribble and go past players, but he looks hesitant in doing so - as you say probably from fear of being benched should he feck it up.
Absolutely. Everyone knows his best form came in that season where he was guaranteed a spot on the right wing during Valencia's absence due to his leg break. He played with no fear and that's what he needs to do again.
That being said everyone knows that at a club like United you can't just be guaranteed a spot unless you're properly special.
Or Antonio Valencia.
I'm gunna presume that's sarcasm.
Bloody hell. You're on fire today!
Valencia - predictable player with little end product.
Nani - unpredictable player with little end product.
Nani - unpredictable player with little end product.
Sums it up quite nicely really.
Agreed. A move in january or next summer would be a win win situation for both club and player. The same with Young and Anderson and perhaps even Rio.
I know what you mean, but there's a loose oxymoron in there that gives the lie to why Nani is a better player to have around.
With Valencia we know we'll get nothing. With Nani we don't know what we'll get. I'll take the latter, thanks.
This is a Nani that barely plays too. If he got a run of games like Valencia has done then I'm sure he'll end up producing.
Yep that's the biggest think I think that gets overlooked. People expect Nani to come in and give a top performance straight away, he had a decent game today, after what a month without starting for us in the league, it's the sort you'd expect with that amount of time without real game time. Valencia, Young, Welbeck over the last season and a half, particularly Valencia have had a number of consistent runs in the team without their performances picking up. I don't think Nani would be as unproductive as them in that sort of period and its harsh to judge him in the same way as those players because he hasn't been allowed that time to get settled in the team again.
Sadly, for reasons best known to himself, Moyes doesn't see it that way. Nani had his chance today, we didn't score... back to the bench for 5 matches, while we revert to Valencia slamming crosses into fullbacks' shins.
Play him on Tuesday and next Sunday please. At least give him a chance to get some form and confidence together.
This, the current uncertainty and apparent lack of trust doesn't benefit either party and only contributes to the detriment of the team. What is the point of having a player that is known to need patience and game time to perform effectively yet gets neither and is still expected to just turn up and deliver?
It is best that he leaves for his own career and our very own balance sheet
BTW for those saying that Nani needs a good run of games, I think this is nonsense. He has not performed at his levels for some time now, under both Ferguson and Moyes. He needs a new challenge somewhere else, I m sure he can do better but not at United I m afraid.
The post has served its purpose. Theon and you are mad.
You're such a weird bloke, MoneyMay. You come out with complete shit all the time and backtrack as soon as you get called on it.
I don't think anyone is getting mad either, we just disagree with you saying that Nani is more talented than Rooney - as did everyone else in the thread. But I guess we are all wrong and "don't know what talent is"...
This applies to a number of players. We have plenty of fans that ardently stand by some players who haven't performed at a high level consistently for years. This applies to a few players in the squad.
I agree with MoneyMay. Natural talent is not the deciding factor to how far you will go but players like Ibrahimovic/Nani/Robben have every natural talent there is except strength in the latter twos cases.
Ibra took the step from being a complete natural talent to a complete footballer at the age of 29, Robben did it at what 28?
Rooney has very little natural talent in comparison(since he lost his pace/dribbling) and instead has the opposite end of the spectrum mastered. He has great decision making, amazing vision, great work-ethic and leadership etc.
Neither sides means you will be a better footballer but what MoneyMay is saying isn't very out there. I think it is quite easy with a lad like Ravel Morrison, he is an extremely talented player but that doesn't mean he will become the best in the world. Sometimes it won't even get you to a professional contract because the player is worthless at the other side of the game.
Ibra took the step from being a complete natural talent to a complete footballer at the age of 29, Robben did it at what 28?
Rooney has very little natural talent in comparison(since he lost his pace/dribbling) and instead has the opposite end of the spectrum mastered. He has great decision making, amazing vision, great work-ethic and leadership etc.
Neither sides means you will be a better footballer but what MoneyMay is saying isn't very out there. I think it is quite easy with a lad like Ravel Morrison, he is an extremely talented player but that doesn't mean he will become the best in the world. Sometimes it won't even get you to a professional contract because the player is worthless at the other side of the game.
Are you high?
Rooney can't and never will be able to dribble like Robben/Nani/Ibra and he doesn't have the burst pace and quick feet of them either to get past players. It is not an outlandish statement.
He has stuff the other three do not have, so it is no criticism of Rooney.
MM is defining natural talent as the sort of talent that these three players have, which I don't think is an odd definition of it. Just trying to explain his POV.
Theon, once you know the difference between similar and same, then come back to me. Until then, learn to debate and stop posting like an animal that can't contain its feelings.
The fact you're mad over my trolling says it all. I think Nani has more talent than Rooney and stick by that.
I disagree. Most players need consistent playing time to find form - look at Rooney, Carrick, Valencia, etc. Nani's best spell last season for us arrived when he was given consistent playing time and he performed well. I don't know what people expect with our current wingers, they're not the main problem for me, in fact they have all done well, with the exception of Young. It's just that they haven't been consistently very good. How many wingers are available in the current market anyway?
The fact you're mad over my trolling says it all. I think Nani has more talent than Rooney and stick by that.
I disagree. Most players need consistent playing time to find form - look at Rooney, Carrick, Valencia, etc. Nani's best spell last season for us arrived when he was given consistent playing time and he performed well. I don't know what people expect with our current wingers, they're not the main problem for me, in fact they have all done well, with the exception of Young. It's just that they haven't been consistently very good. How many wingers are available in the current market anyway?
I agree that a run of games is a good thing. Watching the game yesterday the only time I thought things might happen was when we were getting the ball to Nani or Januzaj.
You need to stop with the unmerited arrogance MoneyMay. You're not half as intelligent enough to pull it off.
This is exactly what you do every time you're called out for talking shit - I'm not mad at all and it isn't a big conspiracy, you've just said some stupid things again. You really can't handle people disagreeing with you. It's pathetic. On the last part - so you're saying you were intentionally WUMing? I thinks its pretty clear that you weren't and that you do hold these daft opinions, you just lack the conviction to follow them through when other people disagree.
Come on.. Dribbling isn't an all encompassing definition of talent and the many other aspects of being a footballer make him more talented than Nani. He's just not as good a dribbler.
Nani has better control than Rooney does and is better at taking people on but he's simply not as consistent and not able to have the impact Rooney does. At the end of the day talent doesn't mean anything it's all about performance and using that talent in games. I remember some stories that Phil Neville was considered more talented than Gary Neville, but G.Nev was simply the better player. It's not an uncommon thing to see players who have all the technical ability ending up as bit part players because there are other things to consider when talking about competitors.
A couple years ago when Nani really did find his form then you could say that he could get to Rooney's level at his best as he really was very good and very dangerous, and maybe if he does get a consistent run he can get back on track for that but right now Rooney is undoubtedly the superior player.
A couple years ago when Nani really did find his form then you could say that he could get to Rooney's level at his best as he really was very good and very dangerous, and maybe if he does get a consistent run he can get back on track for that but right now Rooney is undoubtedly the superior player.
- Status