Luis Nani | 2013/14 Performances

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I've gone from being one of his biggest fans to having practically given up on him. None of the wide boys inspire me (except Adnan). I don't believe in constantly making excuses for players under-performing. Their career is going along year by year while people keep talking about what they 'can' do. When it's all said and done, you are judged on what you actually do.

Starkly put, Nani overall has disappointed. He's what, 27 now. We can't still have a story about what is holding him back. We need performances and contributions, not stories. Every player has some adversity to overcome. Some do, others don't.
 
Cina said:
Eh?

Look at the match day thread, he's regarded as being one of our better players on the day, certainly better than most on the pitch, although to be fair, Adnan was the only outfield player there who looked like he proper gave a feck.

I don't think you can call him awful, he just wasn't anything special.
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That's the thing though, I used to have this expectation of Nani that he could create something or go on a solo raid on his own no matter how average he played. That rarely happens anymore.
 
Rozay said:
I've gone from being one of his biggest fans to having practically given up on him. None of the wide boys inspire me (except Adnan). I don't believe in constantly making excuses for players under-performing.
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This is what I don't get... he's not had the chance to "constantly under-perform". Saturday was his first start since October, and he didn't do particularly badly. When he did get 4 (four!) games in a row earlier in the season he was our best winger for the first three, before having one total shocker.

Just give the guy a run of 6 or 8 games, and then judge. If he's doing nothing of any use after that, then fair enough, maybe it's time to give up.
 
Sir A1ex said:
This is what I don't get... he's not had the chance to "constantly under-perform". Saturday was his first start since October, and he didn't do particularly badly. When he did get 4 (four!) games in a row earlier in the season he was our best winger for the first three, before having one total shocker.

Just give the guy a run of 6 or 8 games, and then judge. If he's doing nothing of any use after that, then fair enough, maybe it's time to give up.
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It's mental. Give any player the playing time he has had and then demand consistency...it's retarded.
 
Sir A1ex said:
This is what I don't get... he's not had the chance to "constantly under-perform". Saturday was his first start since October, and he didn't do particularly badly. When he did get 4 (four!) games in a row earlier in the season he was our best winger for the first three, before having one total shocker.

Just give the guy a run of 6 or 8 games, and then judge. If he's doing nothing of any use after that, then fair enough, maybe it's time to give up.
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I don't mean this season to be honest, it's more to do with the fact that at 27 and 7 odd seasons here, Nani has still not established himself as the player we want him to be. And I say all this with an almost heavy heart, as he has long been a favourite of mine. I have regularly chastised Valencia at his expense on here - but at some stage you need to look at the facts.

Ultimately, this notion that some of our players would be outstanding players if only Manchester United let them is a bit far-fetched. It's all been there for Nani, he has had runs in the team, he trains in front of the manager daily etc. I'm sure they want him to be this world-beater we claim he can be too, but he needs to be the one to make it happen. He needs to force his way into the team.

Perhaps hypocritically, the only person I think this theory of being 'harshly treated' with game time applies to is Chris Smalling. This is because I think he is better than the others, and I don't think he can actually be accused of playing poorly when given a chance at CB either. He generally plays very well there, but hardly gets a chance there. Don't think the same applies to Nani.
 
Rozay said:
It's all been there for Nani, he has had runs in the team.
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And when he has, he has generally done very well, which is why so many people want to see him given a run now.

This is what I don't understand - we're not talking about some guy who we think we've seen something in and hope it'll develop. He's already proven that he can be one of the very best winger in the league. It was only last season that things went awry, and while you can definitely debate the cause and effect, he ended up playing just 7 league matches last season - taking us back ot the fact that since 2010, every time he's been given a solid run in the team he has performed.
 
Sir A1ex said:
And when he has, he has generally done very well, which is why so many people want to see him given a run now.

This is what I don't understand - we're not talking about some guy who we think we've seen something in and hope it'll develop. He's already proven that he can be one of the very best winger in the league. It was only last season that things went awry, and while you can definitely debate the cause and effect, he ended up playing just 7 league matches last season - taking us back ot the fact that since 2010, every time he's been given a solid run in the team he has performed.
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Yeah that's definitely something that people just ignore. Nani has has nowhere near the opportunity that Valencia or even Welbeck has to regain form, even Young probably got more chances last season. On here people seem to expect Nani and put on a top performance and anything less is him being "frustrating" and inconsistent. If he has a solid run of games with no improvement then slate him, if he comes in for the odd game and looks at least as threatening as Valencia then I'd say there's a good chance he will do better with more time.
 
Sir A1ex said:
He's already proven that he can be one of the very best winger in the league.
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Sorry, did I miss this? When did this happen?

Not just here, but even in post match reports, media articles the word 'frustrating' is so linked to Nani. He had one very good season and so had Valencia. Hernandez does not get enough chances, but he is being trusted.
In recent terms Evans, Jones, Smalling etc have managed to shine in chances when Rio/Vidic are absent, but Nani always fluffs his chances and is inconsistent. If this goes januzaj will take precedence over Nani and you lot will keep giving the same excuses.
 
Cina said:
Eh?

Look at the match day thread, he's regarded as being one of our better players on the day, certainly better than most on the pitch, although to be fair, Adnan was the only outfield player there who looked like he proper gave a feck.

I don't think you can call him awful, he just wasn't anything special.
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Aye - definitely wasn't awful. I thought he was OK. At least he ran at his defender and took on his man, often beating them. But Nani usually overplays too much and I think that got the better of his moves in the end.

Goes back to our debate a few weeks(?) ago though. It was an OK performance, but Nani has the ability to be a great great player. I just wish he'd turn more of these OK performances into exceptional performances which is what his natural talent deserves.
 
Absolute Fruit Cake said:
Sorry, did I miss this? When did this happen?
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From 2010 through to 2012, roughly. You must have not been watching.

Absolute Fruit Cake said:
Not just here, but even in post match reports, media articles the word 'frustrating' is so linked to Nani. He had one very good season and so had Valencia.
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Wow, you really live up to your name don't you. You're using the fact that the media love to slate him and call him inconsistent (new information!) as proof of your point?

Absolute Fruit Cake said:
He had one very good season and so had Valencia.
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Ah, you were watching after all (though it was longer than a season).

Yes, Valencia had a (not quite as) great season too (not for as long either). And if he was being frozen out, while others consistently failed, then I'd be pissed off with that too. But he's not. He's played week after week and not produced. Time to give Nani a go.
 
Absolute Fruit Cake said:
Sorry, did I miss this? When did this happen?

Not just here, but even in post match reports, media articles the word 'frustrating' is so linked to Nani. He had one very good season and so had Valencia. Hernandez does not get enough chances, but he is being trusted.
In recent terms Evans, Jones, Smalling etc have managed to shine in chances when Rio/Vidic are absent, but Nani always fluffs his chances and is inconsistent. If this goes januzaj will take precedence over Nani and you lot will keep giving the same excuses.
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You don't like Nani very much, do you?
 
Just to clarify the period which Fruit Cake isn't sure if he remembers or not...

From Jan 2010 to December 2011 (that's 2 years) Nani started 44 league matches and came on as a sub in 18 more. He got 17 goals and 39 assists.

This was an exceptionally good period by any standards.
 
Sir A1ex said:
Wow, you really live up to your name don't you. You're using the fact that the media love to slate him and call him inconsistent (new information!) as proof of your point?

Ah, you were watching after all (though it was longer than a season).

Yes, Valencia had a (not quite as) great season too (not for as long either). And if he was being frozen out, while others consistently failed, then I'd be pissed off with that too. But he's not. He's played week after week and not produced. Time to give Nani a go.
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I just pointed out the fact to show that it is not just a handful here who are frustrated, but people out there too. Being frustrated with Nani is neither a rare not a weird emotion. Nothing to do with his ability.

Nani made the PFA team of the Year 2010-11 season and Valencia the year before. So he was not the best winger of the league of for more than a season, it stands to reason. But I would include 2011-12 as good as 2010-11. Nani is not alone in this, he is facing the same problems as Kagawa and maybe Chicharito. Somehow I think Kagawa will come out better than Nani in the end.

Ish84045 said:
You don't like Nani very much, do you?
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Nothing to dislike. I was excited when I thought he and Anderson will replace Giggs & Scholes. But now, I have given up and tired of this "can do but would not" argument and wish Moyes will give him a run to end this. Swim or Sink.
 
Sir A1ex said:
Just to clarify the period which Fruit Cake isn't sure if he remembers or not...

From Jan 2010 to December 2011 (that's 2 years) Nani started 44 league matches and came on as a sub in 18 more. He got 17 goals and 39 assists.

This was an exceptionally good period by any standards.
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That's a very good return indeed. Just wish he'd play like that all the time. To be fair though, he is a player who needs games to get into the swing of things. He hasn't been given that since his long term injury a while back.
 
rpitroda said:
That's a very good return indeed. Just wish he'd play like that all the time. To be fair though, he is a player who needs games to get into the swing of things. He hasn't been given that since his long term injury a while back.
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Exactly - from getting injured in January 2012 through to the start of this season, he played two matches in a row on two occasions, and three matches in a row on one other occasion. And that's his lot. 11 starts and 7 appearances in total (still managed 3 goals and 7 assists mind).
Whether through injury, selection, contract bollocks or whatever, he really hasn't had the opportunity to play well.

And it's not like it's some weird problem hm needing a regular spot to perform. Look at how Mata is doing now that he's not the main man at Chelsea... or Rooney when he's been in and out of the team - always takes 3 or 4 matches to get going.
 
Sir A1ex said:
Just to clarify the period which Fruit Cake isn't sure if he remembers or not...

From Jan 2010 to December 2011 (that's 2 years) Nani started 44 league matches and came on as a sub in 18 more. He got 17 goals and 39 assists.

This was an exceptionally good period by any standards.
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Well said. From Jan 2010 to 2012 he was the best winger in the league.
 
If we dont play nani against shaktar and then play him a week or two later, I guarantee we will be revisiting this thread about how annoying/frustrating he can be. He performed well against Leverkusen and got no love. Comes on against Everton and does okay but people's reactions were he was shite. I mean how exactly are we expecting him to get into form if he has to undergo such a circulation of game-time? When has that benefitted any player in this type of situation? Other players will get a run of games despite not being all that good. All it takes for Nani is one average-bad performance and he's out of the firing line.

That's why I dont get the criticism so much. He's been done no favors. Ye I get you're expected to perform when you're on the pitch but players need to develop a rhythm. We talk about it with rooney all the time ("he needs a run of games"), even if Rooney's performances arent good. But we cant do the same for Nani. hmmm
 
There's a myth that he didn't keep his consistency in 11-12. He was arguably our best player up until Koscielny made that stupid challenge on him at the Emirates.
 
He's better than Young, Valencia, Welbeck and Kagawa on the wing. He should play more and it's obvious. He hasn't been good this season but He is our best winger and best attacker after Rooney and RVP.
 
How is it a myth that he cannot keep his consistency because in one season he did? Doesn't that argument only serve to actually prove the opposite?

"He isn't inconsistent, look at that one consistent season"

Is it me or does that argument lack self-awareness. He isn't inconsistent, and that's proved by the one season in six since he's been here when he wasn't?
 
MoneyMay said:
There's a myth that he didn't keep his consistency in 11-12. He was arguably our best player up until Koscielny made that stupid challenge on him at the Emirates.
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In calendar year 2011 Nani was exceptional and he is, on paper, easily the best wide player at Man Utd.

But we all know that Nani doesn't have the same hard-head that some players have. When he's feeling confident and he feels he has the confidence of his manager and teammates Nani is exceptional but as soon as he loses that...

That's why Nani needs a run of games, he needs to have something he can cling to, some proof he can point to for his own sake that people think he's vital to the team. If we can just get his chin up we'd have a fantastic player again. Baffling to see Nani subbed for Zaha who is nowhere near his level.
 
#07 said:
In calendar year 2011 Nani was exceptional and he is, on paper, easily the best wide player at Man Utd.

But we all know that Nani doesn't have the same hard-head that some players have. When he's feeling confident and he feels he has the confidence of his manager and teammates Nani is exceptional but as soon as he loses that...

That's why Nani needs a run of games, he needs to have something he can cling to, some proof he can point to for his own sake that people think he's vital to the team. If we can just get his chin up we'd have a fantastic player again. Baffling to see Nani subbed for Zaha who is nowhere near his level.
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I have a problem with the premise of giving someone a run of games so they can start playing well. It should be that you start playing well and you get a run of games not the opposite. Unless you're a proven contributor and asset to the team over a period of time where leeway is given and form is allowed to dip because you've proved that you'll eventually come good. Not really this idea of "oh well if we play him more he might start playing better"

I'm not saying players aren't treated like that as it is but I just dislike the idea anyone getting into the team not because they're playing well but that if they're selected they might start doing so. You shouldn't get selected because you've not been playing well and need games to do so.
 
Plugsy said:
I have a problem with the premise of giving someone a run of games so they can start playing well. It should be that you start playing well and you get a run of games not the opposite. Unless you're a proven contributor and asset to the team over a period of time where leeway is given and form is allowed to dip because you've proved that you'll eventually come good. Not really this idea of "oh well if we play him more he might start playing better"

I'm not saying players aren't treated like that as it is but I just dislike the idea anyone getting into the team not because they're playing well but that if they're selected they might start doing so. You shouldn't get selected because you've not been playing well and need games to do so.
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Rooney gets that treatment and has consistently because he's obviously better than the other options we have in his position.

Nani, likewise, is obviously more talented than anyone of Young, Valencia, Zaha etc. and we know he hasn't lost his ability because he's playing better for Portugal than for United right now. What Nani needs is a pick me up and if a run of games will give him that why don't we give it to him?
 
Plugsy said:
I'm not saying players aren't treated like that as it is but I just dislike the idea anyone getting into the team not because they're playing well but that if they're selected they might start doing so. You shouldn't get selected because you've not been playing well and need games to do so.
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I don't agree with this but even so do you think we lose anything at all from giving Nani a go when the alternative is Antonio Valencia?
 
#07 said:
Rooney gets that treatment and has consistently because he's obviously better than the other options we have in his position.

Nani, likewise, is obviously more talented than anyone of Young, Valencia, Zaha etc. and we know he hasn't lost his ability because he's playing better for Portugal than for United right now. What Nani needs is a pick me up and if a run of games will give him that why don't we give it to him?
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Rooney has been one of our key players for the last eight years. Nani isn't even close to sitting at that particular table.

A player doesn't get to have a 'pick me up' by getting into the first team. How many slots are we to allow for that? Oh let's play him because he's feeling a bit down or let's slot him into central defence because he's playing poorly and up front maybe this guy because his form is awful at the moment.

You don't, can't and shouldn't pick teams like that. Of course there are exceptions but the exceptions have to be earned.
 
akash02 said:
I don't agree with this but even so do you think we lose anything at all from giving Nani a go when the alternative is Antonio Valencia?
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I agree it's a poor situation. I don't think any of our wingers have done themselves justice. I would feel the same if people said "What Young really needs is a run of games" or said the same about Valencia were he not in the side as often as he is. It doesn't matter which one of the three it is, each have been quite poor. Although I think Valencia has improved a bit as of late.

But as a matter of principle I just disagree with the idea you start playing someone on the off-chance they start playing well. It's like rewarding the naughty kid with sweets because it might make him behave better. I don't think that's the right thing to do.
 
I think Valencia has been as good as Nani this season( which isnt glowing but hes been ok a fair bit of the time), people seem to exaggerate everything he does wrong and exaggerate everything Nani does right.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
I think Valencia has been as good as Nani this season( which isnt glowing but hes been ok a fair bit of the time), people seem to exaggerate everything he does wrong and exaggerate everything Nani does right.
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He's played far more games though, and on a consistent basis, you'd expect him to be better, not on the same level.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
I think Valencia has been as good as Nani this season( which isnt glowing but hes been ok a fair bit of the time), people seem to exaggerate everything he does wrong and exaggerate everything Nani does right.
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I don't think you understand the problematic then. Nani never gets a run of games to improve his form - but he is like you say STILL as good as Valencia who has had every chance to find form.

I think it is unfair to say Mata has looked bad this season compared to last and that automatically means he's degenerated - when in fact he is getting less game time and trust.
 
Nani really is an odd case. He has everything in his locker to be one of babe premier leagues top players, but he simply doesn't influence games enough. Too often he disappears from games. When he has his tail up though, he's just a delight to watch. I think he basically doesn't have a top player's mentality. Sometimes you just want to get a hold of him and shake him up and remind him how good he can be.

I used to think it was a lack of urgency, but that too stems from the mentality.

Mind you, I still prefer him over Valencia and Young and I think a shift to a more fluid style would see him benefitting big time.
 
Nani is a catch 22 in that respect, but still I think when Mata has played more often than not hes been the difference ( Spurs, Arsenal in the CC, West Ham.) I dont think Nani will get that run unless he plays out of his skin in a game.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Nani really is an odd case. He has everything in his locker to be one of babe premier leagues top players, but he simply doesn't influence games enough. Too often he disappears from games. When he has his tail up though, he's just a delight to watch. I think he basically doesn't have a top player's mentality. Sometimes you just want to get a hold of him and shake him up and remind him how good he can be.

I used to think it was a lack of urgency, but that too stems from the mentality.

Mind you, I still prefer him over Valencia and Young and I think a shift to a more fluid style would see him benefitting big time.
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Something on your mind there amol? ;)

Agree with everything you said there about Nani though.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Nani is a catch 22 in that respect, but still I think when Mata has played more often than not hes been the difference ( Spurs, Arsenal in the CC, West Ham.) I dont think Nani will get that run unless he plays out of his skin in a game.
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Mata's hardly a fair comparison though, he's your best player and dropping him was just completely bizarre.
 
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