Luis Nani | 2013/14 Performances

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Cantona'sCollar said:
Good post, mate. It does seem a little mad, doesn't it? 442, obtain Cavani to go with Ibra, stop playing 2 strikers. Like you said, Ibrahimovic is better as a playmaker, but I feel ever since he's been a consistent, reliable goal-scorer (the 10/11 season at Milan, imo) most managers have preferred him leading the line & not free-roaming like at Inter - not that it has been proved a bad decision at any point so far, mind you. As soon as Cavani signed, I had figured they'd be playing Ibrahimovic just behind Cavani, if not having the both of them right up top - as you say, though, it seems what Blanc is doing at the minute is working.

Strange that you think their midfield is poorer than ours (not disagreeing, but because I can't imagine anything worse than ours :D) - from the times i've watched them this season, those 3 have struck me as solid (Matuidi, Motta) & of big potential (Verratti, who I think will be a star) as a unit, but perhaps nothing very special at the moment, if anything. I'm probably not the best to judge though, as I will be perfectly honest & say I only watch PSG's league/smaller games for Ibrahimovic.

The problem there is that I don't think Van Persie will be able to fulfill that role in the way Cavani does, because he isn't as mobile - sure, he used to play wide in his early days at Arsenal, but Cavani effectively operates as a winger when PSG don't have the ball, often tracking all the way back and putting in a shift the way you will see him do in every Uruguay game. I think we'd waste his brilliant hold up play that no other member of our squad can offer (important in tough situations, like 12/13 vs Real in the first leg) & then we'd probably finish Hernandez's patience for good. All interesting stuff though, your suggestion about 433 would certainly be very strong and it does make sense as your idea means Rooney gets played in his best position, but ultimately I feel that our best XI has to have Van Persie leading the line, regardless of formation (strange, as I still rate Rooney above Van Persie, but the former is a little more versatile I believe).

Sorry to take this off topic, guys!

Really hope Moyes gives Nani more of a look in from now on - it's been said a million times already, but he really is a 'confidence player'. I genuinely feel that if he was given a run of games in the team, he wouldn't disappoint - on the contrary, he'd prove himself our rightful first choice winger (which should never have been in doubt anyways when you look at our wingers, but then again a top-form Nani could play for any side). His defensive contribution is really underrated too, so it's a little annoying when it's suggested that he is a liability against bigger sides - if anything, he's one of our best big-game players (just look at the Arsenal, City & CL games over the years).
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I certainly don't think that formation is viable, it was just a pure stylistic comparison as it is very similar. You made a very good break-down on why it definitely isn't viable though. There is no team this similar to us(maybe not at all) who has done the transformation so fast and so successfully from 4-4-2.

PSG plays a 4-3-3 because their midfielders aren't very creative so they get almost no penetration through the middle. I think Januzaj is a young copy of the current Giggs when he has his best games. We saw how amazing that paired up with Kagawa so I think them together in front of Jones or Carrick would be creatively world-class. You can of course then make the wingers much more defensive than PSG's are which would balance the team up overall.

I don't think we will be a good team playing RVP and Rooney as strikers and it is a difficult option to choose between them. Both of them are stuck in a contract with us(In Rooneys case soon after his extension) until their careers are almost over so they have little to no leverage in these discussions. RVP is better but has fewer years left which means maybe we should build a long-term team with Rooney on top for the coming 4-5 years over RVP for the coming 2-3 years.

For as long as this "ultimatum" situation continues I can't see any successful way of playing them together in the same team though and neither could Fergie at the end of last season.

I do agree that Nani is the best winger we've got by a mile and needs to play every single game unless his body needs a rest
 
Cina said:
Well to be fair they did acknowledge how good he was in 10/11, he has been inconsistent since then, partly due to himself, partly due to scattered appearances.
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To be honest, I couldn't help but noticing on many occasions watching the game how knowledgable that main commentator seemed to be. I'm not sure who it was, sounded a bit lik Ian Darke - but the facts were just rolling off the tongue, and all in the right context too - didn't seem as if he was reading or anything. Very impressed.
 
I think he should get the start against Spurs. He's so completely reliant on confidence that you could actually see him improving over the course of the Leverkusen game with every successful contribution. Overall I thought he was pretty good, and that goal was a reminder of what he's capable of - no other player in our squad has the combination of pace, agility and touch to pull off a goal like that.

Bench him against Spurs and we're back to square one again. I'd start him and Valencia and give Januzaj half an hour in place of whichever of them is contributing the least.
 
One of my red cards in the newbies was wailing about Nani.......oh, the memories.

Maybe Moyes is seeing something on the training ground. Nani has improved physically a few seasons ago and has showed glimpses of brilliance, but I'd love to see him just get on with his game. If he gets back to his best, we need him.
 
Annahnomoss said:
I certainly don't think that formation is viable, it was just a pure stylistic comparison as it is very similar. You made a very good break-down on why it definitely isn't viable though. There is no team this similar to us(maybe not at all) who has done the transformation so fast and so successfully from 4-4-2.

PSG plays a 4-3-3 because their midfielders aren't very creative so they get almost no penetration through the middle. I think Januzaj is a young copy of the current Giggs when he has his best games. We saw how amazing that paired up with Kagawa so I think them together in front of Jones or Carrick would be creatively world-class. You can of course then make the wingers much more defensive than PSG's are which would balance the team up overall.

I don't think we will be a good team playing RVP and Rooney as strikers and it is a difficult option to choose between them. Both of them are stuck in a contract with us(In Rooneys case soon after his extension) until their careers are almost over so they have little to no leverage in these discussions. RVP is better but has fewer years left which means maybe we should build a long-term team with Rooney on top for the coming 4-5 years over RVP for the coming 2-3 years.

For as long as this "ultimatum" situation continues I can't see any successful way of playing them together in the same team though and neither could Fergie at the end of last season.

I do agree that Nani is the best winger we've got by a mile and needs to play every single game unless his body needs a rest
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Spot on. Januzaj is indeed like the modern-day Giggs in many ways, except for the fact that I don't think Januzaj would be able to play in an actual centre of midfield - he's much more of a Silva type player, in that he plays as a wide forward or a #10 (his preferred position, but obviously won't be playing there for a while now). Strange, as no one could have imagined Giggs would ever turn out even remotely capable in the middle.

It's a shame really, you're right about RVP and Rooney - we basically have the top 2 strikers in England (alongside Aguero) when our best team performances over the last 2 years have been either with one of them out of the team (often Van Persie this season, surprisingly to many) or one of them (Rooney) out of position. Just imagine if they clicked together up front in a 442? If only, if only, we had the right midfielders for a 442! Heartbreaking, isn't it? :lol:

I feel that Nani, however, is going to stake his claim this season to a first XI spot. He's got a goal, the monkey off his back so to speak, & he comes across as a determined fellow. He's so good that he'd only have to play at 75% to look like Garrincha compared to Valencia and Young, so all he needs is a run of games really. I'm hoping he plays in our fixture list over the Christmas period so he can be in the first team for good by the run in - he's good too much quality to allow to go to waste.

Ah well, we'll just have to see how it all unfolds, I guess. It would be great to have him and Valencia firing on all cylinders at the same time, for once, like vs Bayern 09/10.
 
Cantona'sCollar said:
Spot on. Januzaj is indeed like the modern-day Giggs in many ways, except for the fact that I don't think Januzaj would be able to play in an actual centre of midfield - he's much more of a Silva type player, in that he plays as a wide forward or a #10 (his preferred position, but obviously won't be playing there for a while now). Strange, as no one could have imagined Giggs would ever turn out even remotely capable in the middle.

It's a shame really, you're right about RVP and Rooney - we basically have the top 2 strikers in England (alongside Aguero) when our best team performances over the last 2 years have been either with one of them out of the team (often Van Persie this season, surprisingly to many) or one of them (Rooney) out of position. Just imagine if they clicked together up front in a 442? If only, if only, we had the right midfielders for a 442! Heartbreaking, isn't it? :lol:

I feel that Nani, however, is going to stake his claim this season to a first XI spot. He's got a goal, the monkey off his back so to speak, & he comes across as a determined fellow. He's so good that he'd only have to play at 75% to look like Garrincha compared to Valencia and Young, so all he needs is a run of games really. I'm hoping he plays in our fixture list over the Christmas period so he can be in the first team for good by the run in - he's good too much quality to allow to go to waste.

Ah well, we'll just have to see how it all unfolds, I guess. It would be great to have him and Valencia firing on all cylinders at the same time, for once, like vs Bayern 09/10.
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Personally I think Januzaj has the exact same weaknesses as Giggs has in the central midfield so if we can play one we can play the other. Of course I think Giggs in a 2 man midfield is insanity, but in the following formation we are playing Januzaj in the central midfield instead of a striker which makes it defensively more sound than a 4-4-2 for example. Januzaj becomes a bonus in the defense and middle instead of a risk.

---------------Rooney
Nani---Kagawa----Januzaj---Valencia
----------------Jones-------------------

Otherwise I do agree that Januzaj has the dribbling to do a good job from the left, then with Nani on the right and Kagawa in the middle.

Must be a nightmare for Fergie the way he has tried to create 4-4-2's with Rooney with his 2 most expensive signings the last almost 10 years of management - and both failed miserably. It just seems like an impossible task when a manager like Fergie in his most important matches chooses to play one of them out of position/not at all. Of course tactics goes in cycles so sooner or later 4-4-2 will be the "new modern game" again.

You pretty much have my exact view on Nani as a player. Just play him because he always scores or creates a goal. As long as his mistakes won't lead to goals then I couldn't care if he loses the ball every now and then when he "could" have made a simple pass that would be better.
 
Annahnomoss said:
Personally I think Januzaj has the exact same weaknesses as Giggs has in the central midfield so if we can play one we can play the other. Of course I think Giggs in a 2 man midfield is insanity, but in the following formation we are playing Januzaj in the central midfield instead of a striker which makes it defensively more sound than a 4-4-2 for example. Januzaj becomes a bonus in the defense and middle instead of a risk.

---------------Rooney
Nani---Kagawa----Januzaj---Valencia
----------------Jones-------------------

Otherwise I do agree that Januzaj has the dribbling to do a good job from the left, then with Nani on the right and Kagawa in the middle.

Must be a nightmare for Fergie the way he has tried to create 4-4-2's with Rooney with his 2 most expensive signings the last almost 10 years of management - and both failed miserably. It just seems like an impossible task when a manager like Fergie in his most important matches chooses to play one of them out of position/not at all. Of course tactics goes in cycles so sooner or later 4-4-2 will be the "new modern game" again.

You pretty much have my exact view on Nani as a player. Just play him because he always scores or creates a goal. As long as his mistakes won't lead to goals then I couldn't care if he loses the ball every now and then when he "could" have made a simple pass that would be better.
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I'm sure he, as the next season or two come along, will gradually be integrated into the middle to see just how good he is in his preferred position - he does, after all, suggest the sort of talent you can accommodate/build around, as opposed to forcing him into a formation he doesn't work in (such is his potential). We will have to see though. Agreed about the cycles - someone will win the Champions League in the next decade with 2 wingers and 2 strikers, and it will be deemed the next edition of 'total football' by whichever mastermind of a manager wins it that way, & then everyone will start to try and play like it. It happened with 3-5-2 and stranger formations too. :D

Yep, ultimately it all boils down to what his job is as a winger - to create, and often score, goals. He does that better than any other wide player we have even though he's not in form at the minute, and he can be such a huge asset when made to feel an important member of the team (which he would be, if he was given games to retain some form).
 
Cantona'sCollar said:
I'm sure he, as the next season or two come along, will gradually be integrated into the middle to see just how good he is in his preferred position - he does, after all, suggest the sort of talent you can accommodate/build around, as opposed to forcing him into a formation he doesn't work in (such is his potential). We will have to see though. Agreed about the cycles - someone will win the Champions League in the next decade with 2 wingers and 2 strikers, and it will be deemed the next edition of 'total football' by whichever mastermind of a manager wins it that way, & then everyone will start to try and play like it. It happened with 3-5-2 and stranger formations too. :D

Yep, ultimately it all boils down to what his job is as a winger - to create, and often score, goals. He does that better than any other wide player we have even though he's not in form at the minute, and he can be such a huge asset when made to feel an important member of the team (which he would be, if he was given games to retain some form).
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Yeah, Barcelonas 4-1-2-3 was popular 80 years ago and 4-4-2 is just a bit more than 30 years old in the top flight football and 4-2-3-1 is 40 years or so?. People often act like a rare few formations are the only possible ones and all others are crazy talk that would never work. But in reality almost all sort of weird formations has been the "it" formation at a point.
 
Apologies if I'm late to the party and these quotes are already in this thread. Moyes on Nani, from the official site:

"I think what I've seen from Nani is someone who is a talented player, a Portuguese international, and I hope we can try to get him to show that more often," explained Moyes.​
"I thought there were moments when he ran the ball well for us in midweek and he scored a really good goal at the end.​
"We're trying to give him the feeling that he is important and I think it's something he himself needs - to get back to that consistency which gives him the reason to say: 'I'm the man. I can do that job regularly'.​
"Look, what I've found is he works hard enough at his game. He is happy to do all the leg work and the biggest thing is he has brilliant ability to score.​
"His shooting with both feet is almost as good as anybody I've ever seen. He's incredibly talented with his skills and ability. We need to get him to show that more often."​
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That's exactly the sort of thing I'd hope to hear, to be honest. The confidence thing has always seemed like Nani's big issue from the outside, so it's good to hear that Moyes is trying to work on that, and that he recognises how dazzlingly talented Nani can be when he has that confidence.​
 
That's nice to hear but Moyes now needs to back up those words by starting him against Spurs. That goal should have given him some much needed confidence and now's the time to build on it.
 
100% agree. I actually thought he played ok against Bayer, and he seemed to noticeably improve every time he got something right. He has to start against Spurs. I'll be gutted if we don't see exactly the same front 4.
 
Agree with Moyes' comments. I wouldn't mind seeing Nani start tomorrow. Not sure he will, but I'd like to see it. As Moyes has highlighted, he is very much a confidence player. When he plays as he did in midweek he can be brilliant at times. Looking at Spurs this season and the way they have played, Nani would be a decent bet for the game I expect us to play; depending on how we set up in midfield. I'm sure Townsend will have an influence on how we set up down the flanks though. Still, Nani is deadly on the counter if given opportunities, and that is without doubt how I would play them. Solid defensively and play them on the counter.
 
Brightonian said:
100% agree. I actually thought he played ok against Bayer, and he seemed to noticeably improve every time he got something right. He has to start against Spurs. I'll be gutted if we don't see exactly the same front 4.
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Would rather Kagawa went wide left and RVP came back in.
 
He should be given an extended run in the side for the next 5 games or so. No more Valencia please
 
Why was he trying to go for a nice little back heel finish when Hernandez played him? Need to re-watch it if he couldn't just hit it.
 
I thought he should have started, I could understand the thinking behind Welbeck to add defensive strength but then we didn't actually use Welbeck it seemed for the extra cover he brings, so don't know why nani or januzaj couldn't have played. Then as the game went on I thought we needed Nani far more than Hernandez when he came on to add some more creativity which was pretty much nil. Hernandez was effectively a passenger. Hopefully nani will be given a proper run but with valencia and welbeck feeling more in favour and januzaj staking a claim to be part of the first eleven it looks unlikely which I think is a waste for us.
 
Tomuś said:
Why was he trying to go for a nice little back heel finish when Hernandez played him? Need to re-watch it if he couldn't just hit it.
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Only way how he got onto the ball. Was surrounded by players anyway. Nice link up play from him to that led to the chance.
 
Wanted him to come on after an hour mark, I think I saw him ready to come on after they went 2-1 up but we responded immediately and Moyes changed his mind. Valencia - Nani should have been our right hand side for the last 20-30 minutes but I sort of understand Moyes being cautious.
 
Tomuś said:
Wanted him to come on after an hour mark, I think I saw him ready to come on after they went 2-1 up but we responded immediately and Moyes changed his mind. Valencia - Nani should have been our right hand side for the last 20-30 minutes but I sort of understand Moyes being cautious.
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We can't afford to be cautious anymore. It's costing us points every other week.
 
We've been saying this for so long now, but if we are to see the best from Nani we need to give him games. Surely that's not an unreasonable request? And that old 'he doesn't track back' argument is ridiculous.
 
His absence from the starting line-up was a slight surprise. I didn't think he was great midweek, but the goal should have helped his confidence and he's a potential match winner. Agreed he should have come on earlier especially as Kagawa wasn't affecting the game from the left.
 
I hope the morons that booed him the other week can see that we need him to play and he needs to be encouraged. 3 home games in a row now and surely he'll feature, the crowd need to get behind him.
 
datura said:
His absence from the starting line-up was a slight surprise. I didn't think he was great midweek, but the goal should have helped his confidence and he's a potential match winner. Agreed he should have come on earlier especially as Kagawa wasn't affecting the game from the left.
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Yeah Kagawa looked lost out there.

I think I would have brought off Welbeck who wasn't up to pace, and move to the front 4 we played against Leverkusen with Kagawa behind Rooney
 
Orton said:
We can't afford to be cautious anymore. It's costing us points every other week.
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Yeah I know and I don't like it. Moyes got his own ideas and is looking at the bigger picture. Maybe he didn't want us to end up empty-handed so the morale could get even lower as far as the league is concerned. Have to trust him, even if I didn't like it at all. Let's be honest, we didn't seem too unhappy with one point with every minute passing by towards the end.
 
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