They're in awful form though, and were atrocious against City last weekend. AVB under pressure, they can't score a goal to save their lives, it's probably the best time to play them (maybe it would be when City did as now they're hurting probably and need to bounce back).
Luis Nani | 2013/14 Performances
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They're in awful form though, and were atrocious against City last weekend. AVB under pressure, they can't score a goal to save their lives, it's probably the best time to play them (maybe it would be when City did as now they're hurting probably and need to bounce back).
That's the thing. I think even if they're shit again against us, at the very least they'll try play a fast game from the start and get in our faces a bit.
Only seen the goal highlights, but good to see Nani on the scorecard. Nicely taken finish as well. Hopefully he can take confidence from today and really start to come to the fore again.
he worked his socks off. if he gave the ball away he tried twice as hard to win it back. he was also good defensively. i think him and kagawa work well together as they like to play it short and it pulls opposition out which creates space for the strikers. valencia on other hand just drives the ball across the goals
I actually watch almost all PSG games and he is "pushed wide" as a right winger as Blanc prefers Zlatan centrally. I think he has had 3 games or something as a central striker in the league.
The rest of what you say is how I feel myself. I am also a Valencia fan and would like nothing else than to see the old Valencia again. The one who was incredible offensively and didn't slack by because he put in a shift defensively. It has been almost one and a half season now, of getting to play constantly and he is yet to find his form.
He is still brilliant on the bench though as he can play RB even better than as a RW. But it is time to do what every other top team in Europe does, play two offensively lethal wingers.
As long as he plays like he does today, or has been for the most part this season and every season apart from last season really. He's a good winger, and offers a lot of solidity on that side, and once Rafael comes back we'll look even more dangerous and he'll be even better. Most teams in Europe have at least one of their wingers as more defensive or harder working, but while still being attacking, like Kuba at Dortmund, or Pedro at Barca. It doesn't matter too much because the fullbacks are very attacking as well.
Our best lineup right now would probably include both Nani and Valencia on the wings, because they would give us a very nice balanced team, and teams would worry about defending us all over the pitch, instead of just from one wing, like is the case plenty of times.
He didn't do well with the ball but contributed to the team playing well and defensively he did a better than usual job (he does a good job usually). He is still very tentative, hope he gets a run of games with at least substitute appearances, I think it will benefit him and the team
I don't really think Valencia is similar to Pedro in any way really since Valencia lost his offensive abilities. He is still light-years away from being his old self and he offers little offense on his own. The offense he does offer is when someone else in the team makes a brilliant play which practically sets Valencia in for a chance he can't feck up.
I don't think anybody in our team would feck up in those instances, Phil Jones/Smalling also get those chances every now and then coming from the right back position.
I think that is very harsh on the old Valencia if anything to say he is having a good season, he offered individual brilliance and an ability to do things on his own in 1 vs 1's etc. These days he averages less than a cross per game that reaches its target which is less than Nani/Evra/Buttner/Rooney/Fabio/Giggs.
So at what he does best these days in the offense, whip in crosses, he still has a worse average than Nani or a wing-back.
In the defense Shinji Kagawa has outshined him this season by racking up more tackles and interceptions this season as well as being much better offensively. If we want to play Valencia because he can "cover for Giggs/the cm when they move forward with their intelligence" then surely we will play Kagawa instead.
I do agree with your main point that Valencia is good enough to start but in my eyes only against top-teams. Then we would play our best defensive winger in Kagawa and our second best in Valencia with Carrick and Januzaj in the middle. Rooney would take the defensive duties and Nani would be on top as he is much more dangerous on the counter than Rooney.
Against bottom/mid-table sides Zaha and Welbeck should start every second game instead of Valencia as they are huge talents and needs game-time to step up.
Nani-------Rooney------Valencia
-----Kagawa-----Januzaj--------
Evra--------Carrick-------Rafael
--------Evans----Jones----------
Nani with confidence is probably our most exciting player to watch, he can only gain that confidence by playing games
Ive always liked him out left like when Ronaldo was here, prefer him cutting in on his right pegg then left
Ive always liked him out left like when Ronaldo was here, prefer him cutting in on his right pegg then left
For me it's Rooney. When Rooney is on form it just seems like there's nothing on a pitch he can't do, and it's incredible. Nani is skillful and tricky but even at his best I just think he isn't quite as entertaining. Matter of preference I suppose.
Of course Kagawa and Januzaj may be looking to take the title of the most entertaining player shortly.
Navas, Schurrle and Pedro do get dropped because of inconsistent form though. The others are either more consistent or more productive than Nani has been in the last 18 months or however long it is. Hazard's the exception there but he's 22 so gets shown a bit more patience.
A lot of the players you mentioned don't play as proper wingers
The problem I am talking about started 18 months ago. We started playing him in every 4th game which of course means that he would play his first couple of games severely out of form - to be instantly benched again 4 games for not magically having found form on the side-lines.
Sometimes we benched him regardless of good performances, which doesn't help any player in terms of confidence.
Schurrle, Navas and Pedro gets dropped for other players who are meant to produce offensively who are as well inconsistent(Willian/De Bruyne/Aguero/Sanches/Tello) they don't get replaced by a wing-back who is solid defensively but can't produce anything offensively.
I must have been very unclear in my original post for that reply, I apologies for that.
Very true, but the importance is to look at their consistency level and to try to rate them as offensively stronger or defensively stronger "wingers/inside forwards".
They are almost all players who are supposed to benefit the offense, often in expense of the defense - who are also inconsistent. This then poses a question to the statement "We need to play Valencia he is defensively more solid blabla" as no other top teams in the world has that problem. They play their wingers/inside forwards almost exclusively based on their offensive talent.
I am not saying Valencia is too bad to start, just saying there is absolutely no must to start him because of balance-issues or defensive contribution.
Brilliant goal and a very good game. His work rate was very good by his standards, he was tucking right in when we lost the ball, great to see.
Yea
Yeah I agree. Before the injuries about a year an a half ago he wa playing regularly and he had found the point where he was regularly playing well and even when he wasn't be was putting up the numbers. Then injuries hit and he really found himself in and out of the team. Once he gets a consistent run then I think he'll find his form again.
Yeah I agree. Before the injuries about a year an a half ago he wa playing regularly and he had found the point where he was regularly playing well and even when he wasn't be was putting up the numbers. Then injuries hit and he really found himself in and out of the team. Once he gets a consistent run then I think he'll find his form again.
I take that back - you are correct. He's basically being played wide (so they can have a 3 prong attack) but he is still effectively trying to play like a striker, if you know what I mean - he doesn't provide a great amount of width. I don't see why they can't try 2 up top? I've watched a few of their games this season (not as many as you) & they seem to have the personnel to do it.
Sorry, on topic now - it's a real shame that he has pulled a complete Torres, strange, when he is still so good at right-back. I'm afraid you are right though, being a top guy doesn't cut it & we are in desperate need of service from the wings - it is no coincidence the only forward who has performed to his abilities this year is Rooney, who has never relied on service anyways. If Valencia goes back to how he was 2 seasons ago, we have a world class winger on our hands - great. If he doesn't, we really need a reshuffle.
Won the ball back 7 times to Valencia's 2 last night. Won the ball more than any other player on the pitch once again showing its nonsense that he doesnt do enough when we dont have the ball. Took his goal well too
Did you see some of Bayer's passing? Nani looked like he was wearing black, the found him with ease on several occasions, I think that's a misleading stat and unfair to Valencia. Both had good games I thought.
That's absolutely absurd rationale, if anything what you've said is what's misleading and is unfair to Nani.
That's the point
Won the ball back is a misleading stat. Was it a tackle? Was it an interception? Was it pouncing on a loose ball? Was it a mistake from the opposition? etc
Such a hard thing to measure when and take anything meaningful from when there were so many mistakes from Bayer. That's nothing against Nani, he was there to capatalize.
That's the point
Won the ball back is a misleading stat. Was it a tackle? Was it and interception? Was it pouncing on a loose ball? Was it a mistake from the opposition? etc
Indeed. All stats are like that though.
It was 6 interceptions and 1 tackle. Valencia had 2 tackles.
So yeah, a lot of it probably was just intercepting poor Leverkusen passes.
He didn't say Valencia wasn't good defensively though, it was just a stat comparison, big deal. Nothing wrong with pointing something out to give an example of a player performing well in that area, especially as he's generally considered far inferior to our other wingers in that aspect of his game.That's the point
Won the ball back is a misleading stat. Was it a tackle? Was it and interception? Was it pouncing on a loose ball? Was it a mistake from the opposition? etc
Stats should obviously be taken with a pinch of salt at times but to say it was down to shoddy Bayer passing is harsh, it's clear he was very defensively strong last night, despite not being great offensively for around 80 minutes.
Nani was decent, nearly everyone one of our other starters had a better game than him though.
If RVP is out, I'd like us to keep the same team on Sunday but with Januzaj instead of him, his passing is in on a different level to Nani.
If RVP is out, I'd like us to keep the same team on Sunday but with Januzaj instead of him, his passing is in on a different level to Nani.
I kept on thinking about Caf when Nev was talking about his inconsistency on commentary last night. Must have enraged some people on here!
He did made a valid point about him not getting into decent positions though. He's actually a very calm finisher.
He did made a valid point about him not getting into decent positions though. He's actually a very calm finisher.
Well I didnt say Valencia didnt play well. I was just saying, we all know Valencia as someone who competes and wins the ball back more often than most wingers and he always gets credit for it. For this particular match Nani won the ball more
Well to be fair they did acknowledge how good he was in 10/11, he has been inconsistent since then, partly due to himself, partly due to scattered appearances.
I think Nani had a really good game capped with a well taken goal. Again i think he just needs more game time to get his confidence levels up. Now that he scored, lets see him climb the goal charts as well. We know he is lethal from dead ball situations and also from open play, so score more....................
Interesting that you asked about PSG. They played 4-4-2 last year and the safe thing would be to just continue it as they had acquired the worlds best striker partnership in Ibra and Cavani(How many clubs has had a better one than that on paper in history?).
Blanc however early made it clear that he doesn't think 4-4-2 is viable even with Ibra/Cavani on top which for a 4-4-1-1 would be pretty optimal. Ibra has always been better as a play-maker than a striker albeit lazy(read heavy) and Cavani is a pure goal-scorer with good work-rate.
Like you say Cavani is still a striker who provides almost 0 assists and mainly uses the right wing as a starting point. Once he gets the ball he instantly tries to find Ibra and then just run towards the goal behind the lines. Simple but he has scored as much as Ibra in the league and bagged 3 in CL.
So how has it turned out? They have gone from being one of the bottom rated sides in terms of possession with 45% when they played 4-4-2 to the third highest just a fraction below Barcelona and 3% below Bayern.
They have a higher pass accuracy than any team in the champions league whereas they were very mediocre last year, they are among the top in terms of shots on goal.
Their midfield consists of Motta, Matuidi and Verratti so a player like Matuidi forces Cavani out on the left. Their midfield is far worse than the possible trio we could use so I think it is a really good "what if" comparison for us.
The styles and quality of all their offensive players and ours are pretty identical. Not suggesting we should copy them as there are still slight differences that one has to consider. But it is still very interesting that we can make a good assessment on how we would look in a year if we switched to a 4-3-3 with both RVP/Rooney playing.
Lavezzi----Zlatan---Cavani
Nani----Rooney----van Persie
He's been inconsistent since the second half of 11/12. He was excellent in 10/11 and very good in 11/12. He was arguably our best attacking player in the first half of 11/12, he was certainly the only player who turned up against Basel away. The thing with Nani is, as stated by a few, he's a confidence player. You have to play him to get the best out of him, just like we did in 09/10, 10/11, and 11/12. And that was actually the case last season, in the second half. He produced - and this is ironic because he didn't feature as much as Valencia - the most consistent run of performances on our wings in said season.
Christ, it seems I've hit a nerve here and you clearly have some sort of attachment to Nani. What I said was pretty standard stuff - Valencia has played better than Nani this season so has deservedly been preffered by Moyes. You've turned it into some daft argument.
If Hernandez is in good form then no he shouldn't be picked ahead of Rooney. The situations aren't remotely similar. For one Nani and Valencia are much closer in terms of ability than Rooney/Hernandez. In fact, it's just an awful example in general because I never said that Valencia was in top form - he isn't - he's just played better than Nani.
I am not trying to say that Nani in average form is better than Valencia in top form, because that would be ridiculous to say, Valencia in top form is very good player, probably world class, but we saw that how many times in his last 50+ apps from last two season, 5-6 times maximum?
I don't have any sort of attachment to Nani, but I quite like him as a player. I like him more than Valencia(even though I quite like Valencia too), if that's what are you asking, but I am unbiased when comparing those two, as you can see from my posts after the game. I was happy to say that Valencia performed really good in this game, and that this was far from good performance from Nani.
Hernandez-Rooney was random comparision(maybe even lazy comparision), because you sounded like you would always start players who are in better form instead of those who aren't performing to their abilities.
Nani will never get in top form if not given chances, and in comparision with him, Valencia is treated much much better than Nani in last two seasons, that's all I am saying. He didn't deserve to be dropped for 5 games because of one poor performance after few good ones, because I can't remember when is the last time any of our other(better) players were treated that way. When did you see Valencia being benched for 5 games and actually not given single minute in that time? Even before tonight, Valencia had three poor games in a row, and yet he was starter last night again.
And btw, how would you rate Valencia's form in premiership this season?
He was pretty good overall and the goal was a peach.
I was most impressed with his work rate last night, which was phenomenal. It was a refreshing change from watching Evra suffer alone.
So, all I had to do was drop him from my fantasy league team. It was that simple all along.
Did well last night and his goal was sublime.
Good post, mate. It does seem a little mad, doesn't it? 442, obtain Cavani to go with Ibra, stop playing 2 strikers. Like you said, Ibrahimovic is better as a playmaker, but I feel ever since he's been a consistent, reliable goal-scorer (the 10/11 season at Milan, imo) most managers have preferred him leading the line & not free-roaming like at Inter - not that it has been proved a bad decision at any point so far, mind you. As soon as Cavani signed, I had figured they'd be playing Ibrahimovic just behind Cavani, if not having the both of them right up top - as you say, though, it seems what Blanc is doing at the minute is working.
Strange that you think their midfield is poorer than ours (not disagreeing, but because I can't imagine anything worse than ours
) - from the times i've watched them this season, those 3 have struck me as solid (Matuidi, Motta) & of big potential (Verratti, who I think will be a star) as a unit, but perhaps nothing very special at the moment, if anything. I'm probably not the best to judge though, as I will be perfectly honest & say I only watch PSG's league/smaller games for Ibrahimovic. The problem there is that I don't think Van Persie will be able to fulfill that role in the way Cavani does, because he isn't as mobile - sure, he used to play wide in his early days at Arsenal, but Cavani effectively operates as a winger when PSG don't have the ball, often tracking all the way back and putting in a shift the way you will see him do in every Uruguay game. I think we'd waste his brilliant hold up play that no other member of our squad can offer (important in tough situations, like 12/13 vs Real in the first leg) & then we'd probably finish Hernandez's patience for good. All interesting stuff though, your suggestion about 433 would certainly be very strong and it does make sense as your idea means Rooney gets played in his best position, but ultimately I feel that our best XI has to have Van Persie leading the line, regardless of formation (strange, as I still rate Rooney above Van Persie, but the former is a little more versatile I believe).
Sorry to take this off topic, guys!
Really hope Moyes gives Nani more of a look in from now on - it's been said a million times already, but he really is a 'confidence player'. I genuinely feel that if he was given a run of games in the team, he wouldn't disappoint - on the contrary, he'd prove himself our rightful first choice winger (which should never have been in doubt anyways when you look at our wingers, but then again a top-form Nani could play for any side). His defensive contribution is really underrated too, so it's a little annoying when it's suggested that he is a liability against bigger sides - if anything, he's one of our best big-game players (just look at the Arsenal, City & CL games over the years).
Very good workrate, I dont know how many times he made an interception. With more confidence, he will be more creative and involved. I felt he was a bit left out in the first half
Excellent post. Spot on the mark.
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