Luis Nani | 2013/14 Performances

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KM said:
It's hyperbole like this which makes me ignore the Nani threads.

He played well but Young against Palace and Valencia against Leverkusen were two much better performances than this.
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And it's exaggerations like this which make me struggle to respond to some posts.

Young's performance was good against Palace, but it wasn't better than Nani's. May be better in your opinion, but I really do beg to differ, and it's not because I don't rate Young that much. It's just that what Nani did to pose a threat against Liverpool rated higher in my books than what Ashley Young had accomplished in that game.

Valencia's I suppose was better, not only providing to the team an assist and goal, but also by putting in a solid defensive shift and was beating his man more often than not as well as providing a constant supply of good balls into the box. But to say much better is an exaggeration. Nani was dangerous; his link up play was good and he was also putting in a couple of defensive shifts which was good to see. All his game was missing was more sharpness and some stats to his name like a goal or an assist, which I think he had deserved for his first start this season.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's so fashionable to rip the piss out of Young and Valencia that people do seem to have a really distorted impression of their contributions. Mental that a game in which Valencia scored a goal, got an assist and set up the miss of the season is being talked about as less impressive than a game in which Nani... well... showed some nice first touches and had a blocked shot or two. Did he even find a team-mate once with a cross? If Young/Valencia showed that sort of lack of end product from the wings they'd be getting dog's abuse, not being hailed as having put in the best performance of the season!
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One person said that, so take it easy there.

You are, on the other end of the spectrum, totally underrating his performance last night.

That's the problem with the Nani thread, no middle ground. For every poster you have who likes him and overrates his performances, you have another who will try and downplay and criticize his performances, usually those people seem to be the ones who defend Valencia through thick and thin, come to think of it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's so fashionable to rip the piss out of Young and Valencia that people do seem to have a really distorted impression of their contributions. Mental that a game in which Valencia scored a goal, got an assist and set up the miss of the season is being talked about as less impressive than a game in which Nani... well... showed some nice first touches and had a blocked shot or two. Did he even find a team-mate once with a cross? If Young/Valencia showed that sort of lack of end product from the wings they'd be getting dog's abuse, not being hailed as having put in the best performance of the season!
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I don't get the criticism of Valencia to be honest, I think he's started the season okay, Young is poor though, I don't really see how that can be argued against. Nani played well yesterday, rarely gave the ball away, showed some nice touches around the area, took his man on a few times, and that's when he supposedly isn't match fit and with a midfield of Giggs/Jones behind him, he's a good player and the abuse he gets (not on this forum) is ridiculous, he has to be starting over Ashley Young. And he did put in a lovely front post cross for Hernandez who had his shot blocked, it then came back out to Nani and he played a lovely one two with Kagawa and had his left foot shot that looked to be heading into the bottom corner blocked by Skrtel. Anyone watching that match yesterday and thinking he had a bad game is just seeing what they want to see.
 
Cina said:
One person said that, so take it easy there.

You are, on the other end of the spectrum, totally underrating his performance last night.

That's the problem with the Nani thread, no middle ground. For every poster you have who likes him and overrates his performances, you have another who will try and downplay and criticize his performances, usually those people seem to be the ones who defend Valencia through thick and thin, come to think of it.
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Same applies to you in reverse situation. And the bit below is bollocks I'm afraid. There are people who can praise both of them where it's due.
 
In reverse situation. Loads of people praised Nani's performance despite not being Valencia's haters. Ignoring the fact that it would take a vast cnut not to rate his performance vs Leverkusen.
 
Tomuś said:
In reverse situation. Loads of people praised Nani's performance despite not being Valencia's haters. Ignoring the fact that it would take a vast cnut not to rate his performance vs Leverkusen.
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No, you said the same applies to me in reverse situation, which made no sense given the part of my post you put in bold.

Also, I didn't say that EVERYONE either prefers Valencia or Nani, I said "for every" person who overrates one over the other.
 
Tomuś said:
Although Young really was terrible against City, he was good enough in his previous games - counts for nothing!
EDIT: For the record I believe Young shouldn't play in front of Nani but he's still a decent squad player.
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I really don't think that's the case though. Especially considering, if we're honest, that performance against Leverkusen has been the exception, rather than the norm for Valencia over the past season or so.

I think most people actually just want someone like Nani/Kagawa to be afforded similar opportunities that Valencia has been afforded i.e. playing constantly, even though your form didn't merit it. but if you consider match fitness/Nani's contract situation/Kagawa's injury problems/lack of preseason etc etc, I think a ton of people are too quick to go all up in arms.

Anyway, I agree that the criticism of Valencia, and particularly, Young has been harsh. We should be able to discuss the one, without needing to bring criticism/praise of the other into the discussion.
 
Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of Kagawa as I watched him at Dortmund and believe it would be a disaster for him not to shine here. My tagline is also one of the biggest misunderstanding you'll see on here (I like it, however) as I rate him. Want both to get plenty more chances but it doesn't mean I have to throw shit at Val or Young.
 
mickeza said:
I don't get the criticism of Valencia to be honest, I think he's started the season okay, Young is poor though, I don't really see how that can be argued against. Nani played well yesterday, rarely gave the ball away, showed some nice touches around the area, took his man on a few times, and that's when he supposedly isn't match fit and with a midfield of Giggs/Jones behind him, he's a good player and the abuse he gets (not on this forum) is ridiculous, he has to be starting over Ashley Young. And he did put in a lovely front post cross for Hernandez who had his shot blocked, it then came back out to Nani and he played a lovely one two with Kagawa and had his left foot shot that looked to be heading into the bottom corner blocked by Skrtel. Anyone watching that match yesterday and thinking he had a bad game is just seeing what they want to see.
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I don't think I said he had bad game. I certainly don't think he did. Was just objecting to the idea that it was as good as anything our wingers have produced all season. It patently wasn't. Bar the 30 second spell in bold he really didn't produce much else and fecked up a couple of promising situations by choosing the wrong option. What made it a decent enough display was that he was generally neat and tidy, showed good touch and passed the ball accurately. Which is encouraging, because we all know what a threat he can be when the rest of his game clicks into gear.

Of course, that's still not much better than sort of performance Valencia manages even when he's at his uninspiring worst. In terms of creating genuine goal-scoring opportunities Nani's performance last night was in no way a significant improvement in what we've seen from our other wingers this season. feck it, even in the horror show against Chelsea Valencia beat his man no less than Nani did last night.
 
Well at least Nani doesn't stand still like a gimp and tries to open up defenses. Some of his passing and movement yesterday were refreshing compared to the shit we saw on Sunday. Yes, it was a different game but it was his first game in a long time and he will only get better. He's a better option than Valencia.
 
Hellboy said:
Well at least Nani doesn't stand still like a gimp and tries to open up defenses. Some of his passing and movement yesterday were refreshing compared to the shit we saw on Sunday. Yes, it was a different game but it was his first game in a long time and he will only get better. He's a far better option than Valencia and Young.
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Agree with it being his first game in a long time and I thought he did well. But I'm sorry, you can't compare those two performances for God's sake. fecking Ronaldo would do well to change the game on Sunday. City's performance was one of the best you'll see this season in any league, I'd back them against anyone on Sunday. Why don't you take his outing against Leverkusen when you're juxtaposing both players? Similar quality of the opposition as well and at Old Trafford. Val gives us width that we visibly lacked at times yesterday when there was load of space on the right wing, especially in the second half. Horses for courses really.
 
Tomuś said:
Agree with it being his first game in a long time and I thought he did well. But I'm sorry, you can't compare those two performances for God's sake. fecking Ronaldo would do well to change the game on Sunday. City's performance was one of the best you'll see this season in any league, I'd back them against anyone on Sunday. Why don't you take his outing against Leverkusen when you're juxtaposing both players? Similar quality of the opposition as well and at Old Trafford. Val gives us width that we visibly lacked at times yesterday when there was load of space on the right wing, especially in the second half. Horses for courses really.
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It was only so good because we were so bad.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's so fashionable to rip the piss out of Young and Valencia that people do seem to have a really distorted impression of their contributions. Mental that a game in which Valencia scored a goal, got an assist and set up the miss of the season is being talked about as less impressive than a game in which Nani... well... showed some nice first touches and had a blocked shot or two. Did he even find a team-mate once with a cross? If Young/Valencia showed that sort of lack of end product from the wings they'd be getting dog's abuse, not being hailed as having put in the best performance of the season!
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Yeah 4 key passes in 89 minutes is a lack of end product. Its only 1 more than Rooney last night, 2 more than Rooney's average for the season. 1 less than Ozil's average for the season, who is way out in front as the most creative player in the league so far

Typical
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Nah, City were very very good. It wasn't just our own incompetence that made it easy for them. Although it definitely helped!
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They were "very good" but it's not a performance worthy of being one of the best of the season because we were very, very shit on the day.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I don't think I said he had bad game. I certainly don't think he did. Was just objecting to the idea that it was as good as anything our wingers have produced all season. It patently wasn't. Bar the 30 second spell in bold he really didn't produce much else and fecked up a couple of promising situations by choosing the wrong option. What made it a decent enough display was that he was generally neat and tidy, showed good touch and passed the ball accurately. Which is encouraging, because we all know what a threat he can be when the rest of his game clicks into gear.

Of course, that's still not much better than sort of performance Valencia manages even when he's at his uninspiring worst. In terms of creating genuine goal-scoring opportunities Nani's performance last night was in no way a significant improvement in what we've seen from our other wingers this season. feck it, even in the horror show against Chelsea Valencia beat his man no less than Nani did last night.
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Valencia was better against Leverkusen, Welbeck possibly against Swansea, although he changed position throughout the match, but other than that I think it was the best winger performance of the season. Valencia at his worst is still an attractive option to managers simply because he rarely gives the ball away and he's so solid defensively. Nani did beat his man yesterday though, he was taking players on from standing starts, and he did a beautiful step over pass for Rooney that took Gerrard and Enrique out of the game, he's a tremendously gifted footballer. I thought he looked very mature on the ball too, except for the two on one when he should have put Kagawa in and ended up shooting over the bar, his decision making seemed very good. He maybe lacked a touch of acceleration a few times, which will come with more fitness, but other than that the signs looked good. If Moyes can rejuvenate Nani like it seems he has with Rooney I think we're in for a good season.
 
Cina said:
They were "very good" but it's not a performance worthy of being one of the best of the season because we were very, very shit on the day.
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We've been arguably the best team in Europe domestically in the last two decades and, on the contrary to what I've heard on Caf recently, have a good record against top clubs. You don't beat us 4-1 in the league just because we were poor. If you follow this way then you have to dismiss Bayern thrashing of Barca, Barca beating us in 2011 and so on.
 
Tomuś said:
Pogue, I take it you've been away for a while, then? Valencia was highly praised after Leverkusen, then played against City (where he wasn't even close to being our worst player) and now he's shit again because Nani came back and had a decent game. I gave up on it cause you can do nothing about haters. I sometimes get the impression that some fans on here support certain players and not the club as a whole. Same applies to Welbeck-Hernandez situation. One bad game and suddenly Danny is poor and should be nowhere near the first eleven.

It's as if they can't accept that you can have two good players fighting for one position. The fact that Valencia and Young play on the wings means they're shit cause they're blocking Nani's places in the team. Although Young really was terrible against City, he was good enough in his previous games - counts for nothing!
EDIT: For the record I believe Young shouldn't play in front of Nani but he's still a decent squad player.
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Most praise for Valencia came with a but attached. But Leverkusen were shit, but the left back was shit, but last season etc.
 
He got a lot of praise, with people wanting to wait a few games before suddenly announcing "He's back!" like they did last season when he had signs of being back. Then being poor again

So far its been the one good game
 
mickeza said:
Valencia was better against Leverkusen, Welbeck possibly against Swansea, although he changed position throughout the match, but other than that I think it was the best winger performance of the season. Valencia at his worst is still an attractive option to managers simply because he rarely gives the ball away and he's so solid defensively. Nani did beat his man yesterday though, he was taking players on from standing starts, and he did a beautiful step over pass for Rooney that took Gerrard and Enrique out of the game, he's a tremendously gifted footballer. I thought he looked very mature on the ball too, except for the two on one when he should have put Kagawa in and ended up shooting over the bar, his decision making seemed very good. He maybe lacked a touch of acceleration a few times, which will come with more fitness, but other than that the signs looked good. If Moyes can rejuvenate Nani like it seems he has with Rooney I think we're in for a good season.
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Young, for all his sins, was actually very good against Palace (I think it was Palace? The game where him and Evra got lots of joy down the left?). Certainly not significantly worse than Nani last night.

Don't disagree with anything else you wrote.
 
Ekeke said:
Yeah 4 key passes in 89 minutes is a lack of end product. Its only 1 more than Rooney last night, 2 more than Rooney's average for the season. 1 less than Ozil's average for the season, who is way out in front as the most creative player in the league so far

Typical
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:lol: So "key passes" are a thing now? Christ. I reckon that's the moment when stats finally jumped the shark.
 
Ekeke said:
He got a lot of praise, with people wanting to wait a few games before suddenly announcing "He's back!" like they did last season when he had signs of being back. Then being poor again

So far its been the one good game
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People have judged his form on what happened last season rather than the actual games. He played well against Liverpool also. Got an assist against Swansea in a decent enough display too.
 
Yeah, it's those key passes again. Remember when I lambasted him (admittedly, too harshly) after some UCL outing against Gala I think. I said he was shite then was thrown at some stats suggesting he made a few key passes but the reality was that he indeed played poorly. One real chance he's made yesterday was when he released Giggs in the second half, now that was a good ball.
 
He created 4 shooting chances with his passing and was heavily involved in all our good passing moves. If you want to discount that, I guess we'll be judging Rooney on his goalscoring alone from now on. If he gets 30 hes had a great season, if he gets 19 he's had a poor season
 
Just something for those that don't know, but a key pass isn't something that is largely significant - it certainly doesn't fully represent a clear-cut chance. Opta, the main stats body, classes shot assists as a key passes. For instance, if Cleverley passes the ball to Carrick, who shoots from 30 yards, then this is considered a key pass. It's largely misleading because a player that has created 24 key passes (or chances, which is the same thing) could have created more clear cut chances than a player who has created 40 key passes.
 
Tomuś said:
Yeah, it's those key passes again. Remember when I lambasted him (admittedly, too harshly) after some UCL outing against Gala I think. I said he was shite then was thrown at some stats suggesting he made a few key passes but the reality was that he indeed played poorly. One real chance he's made yesterday was when he released Giggs in the second half, now that was a good ball.
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Nani was one of our best players vs. Galatasaray...
 
Tomuś said:
We've been arguably the best team in Europe domestically in the last two decades and, on the contrary to what I've heard on Caf recently, have a good record against top clubs. You don't beat us 4-1 in the league just because we were poor. If you follow this way then you have to dismiss Bayern thrashing of Barca, Barca beating us in 2011 and so on.
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No you do not, that Barca side are one of the best ever and that Bayern side were a shitload better than City are too. How can you even make those comparisons?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Young, for all his sins, was actually very good against Palace (I think it was Palace? The game where him and Evra got lots of joy down the left?). Certainly not significantly worse than Nani last night.

Don't disagree with anything else you wrote.
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He wasn't very good, he played well, and was arguably our best attacking player when he was on the pitch (we were below par as a whole against Palace I thought), but I don't think it was any better than Nani last night. The reason I rate Nani's slightly higher is that Young was against the worst team in the league who stuck 11 men behind the ball, had Carrick behind him, and played against ten men for about 20 minutes. Nani was playing against Liverpool alongside a starting eleven full of fringe players/players lacking match fitness.
 
Cina said:
No you do not, that Barca side are one of the best ever and that Bayern side were a shitload better than City are too. How can you even make those comparisons?
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Because it would mean that Bayern beat them cause they were shite and that we made it easy for Barca. Which it doesn't, both were unstoppable and that's why they won. Can't believe a guy who's been watching football for a good few years (I assume?) is not able to call that a brilliant City performance...
 
Tomuś said:
Because it would mean that Bayern beat them cause they were shite and that we made it easy for Barca. Which it doesn't, both were unstoppable and that's why they won. Can't believe a guy who's been watching football for a good few years (I assume?) is not able to call that a brilliant City performance...
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Huh? I said it was a very good performance, but a lot of it was down to us being really crap. What's so hard to comprehend about that? We didn't turn up at all and made it very easy for them to play well. Against Barca on the other hand we were just dominated by a far, far better footballing side who would've smashed us no matter what.
 
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