Is that what happened, or did Rooney sacrifice himself and do a job for the team like he always does?
Luis Nani | 2013/14 Performances
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Is that what happened, or did Rooney sacrifice himself and do a job for the team like he always does?
Rooney didn't sacrifice himself, Ferguson did because Rooney is not a player to build a team around.
So Rooney didn't play LW then, despite him being a striker?
That is not sacrifice. Either he played where Fergie told him to or he would be on the bench.
His running around is considered by you and others as doing a job for the team while for some of us it is him wanting to be constantly involved.
I think Rooney is motivated by self more than the team concept.
Rooney told Moyes not to play Nani and probably Fergie before him. He's probably in Woody's ear telling him to sell Nani as well.
I'm not sure you could say Rooney was sacrificing himself when he was playing with Ronaldo. The fact is that SAF made him the focal point of the team for a reason, and it was simply he was and is a better player than Rooney.
Back on topic, I think he did ok in the friendly today.
Just finished watching the Portugal-Greece game.
Nani MOTM by quite some distance. He put in some very good crosses (his crossing was on point), made good runs, and almost scored. A performance in which he looked motivated, albeit it was a friendly. Though I'm not sure about his haircut...
Agreed. Was at the stadium and Nani was the player who got most cheers. He had a very good first half and got praised by our manager Paulo Bento and majority of the pundits. Like Paulo Bento said in previous interviews, it doesn´t matter if he didn´t have a good year at United, if he is fit, he´s a starter in our team. Only player capable of creating and being a threat besides Ronaldo.
That boot, mesmerising! I don't mind the hairstyle. A little bit of arrogance is good for fair players.
I hope we don't sell him before LVG has some training sessions with him.
I hope we don't sell him before LVG has some training sessions with him.
As I have maintained Portugal's second best player. Hindered by Rooney. I would love to see him play for us without Rooney just to see how he would perform.
How the feck did Rooney hinder Nani?
As far as I am aware, Rooney wasn't the manager back then, so he didn't sacfrifice anything. He just followed the manager's instructions.
He was badgering on about this in the Rooney thread a few weeks back. I genuinely don't know how anyone can believe that.He doesn't. I'm no fan of Rooney, but Nani hinders himself at times, and I am a fan of him. What Rooney does, though, is exaggerate his emotions and outbursts when Nani messes up a dribble, pass or simply doesn't pass to Rooney. That has become quite obvious. Nevertheless, it is down to Nani whether or not he gets affected by such things. He shouldn't, really.
I think Rooney is soon becoming a two headed mythical creature.
1. A creature that sacrifices his family for the team and runs 50 miles every match because everyone else is a zombie.
2. The anti-Christ who has dominion over the club and can decide which player plays or not. If he looks at you with evil eyes, your football career is wrecked forever, as must surely be the case with Nani and Ando.
Yup, this has become quite brutal really and is basically bullying. Most of the times the pass to Rooney was impossible or the dribble was a good idea, but still Rooney is there shouting and screaming throwing a hissy fit at Nani.
Of course when the time finally comes for Nani to make an apparent mistake Rooney's outburst is completely over the top throwing his hands in frustration and screaming like a little girl.
Would hope that LVG punishes Rooney if he does this to Nani or any teammate again as it is absolutely disgusting.
Maybe van Gaal should just bring Nani to the front of the class and warn everyone else if they're mean to him he'll be calling their parents in.
Yep. He devides opinions even more than Ed Woodward.
I think I understand where you're coming from, but ultimately it's down to Nani just not giving a toss about Rooney's reactions and perhaps just simply behave similarly when Rooney misses the obvious pass, which he does at least as frequently as Nani does.
Going back to Nani:
How was his speed yesterday? He used to be blisteringly quick, just a tad behind Walcott in my book, but lately he has looked heavier and slower. As pace was a great part of his dribbling style, his overall game would be impaired by a loss of pace.
I like Nani and he should be they type if player, positionally and stylistically, that LVG loves. But his contribution over the last two seasons has been practically nil. He's getting a bit like Ando where he's now having a make or break season when really, given his age and time at the club, he should be an established senior pro by now .
Agreed, although this season and even last he hardly got on the pitch (even when fit)
An inform and confident (key) has the potential to be our best player ahead of RVP, Rooney, Mata but after the last couple of years I've given up on him. The only hope now is Van Gaal getting something out of him but even so I don't think Nani has the luxury of getting a run of games on the right which, I think he needs to get his confidence back up.
I don't think it is an excuse on Nani's side at all for his performances, that is not my point. It is just very ugly from Rooney to treat a team mate like that. It is not like he's taking any leadership responsibilities as when someone else does similar mistakes he doesn't throw hissy-fits.
Keane wouldn't care if your name was RVP, Carrick or Nani - he'd tell whoever did the mistake he wasn't happy with it.
If Evans kept shouting and throwing his arms in the air like a girl every time DDG didn't act perfectly then I would have an equal problem with it.
I'm holding out (probably unrealistic) hope of a revival under Van Gaal. I'd like to see him kept.
One main concern is how the fans treat Nani, and it seems like Rooney's behavior drives them as well. Like Nani's doing something (missing a pass, losing the ball) that's never been done before and just can't be believed. That's what Rooney transmits to the people in the stands.
Well it seems that I am not the only person that recognizes Rooney's over the top behavior towards Nani. Once noticed it is hard to ignore.
It is not, however, an excuse for Nani's drop in form but not everyone has a strong enough character to deal with such disrespect.
Before I thought Nani should leave for his own benefit but now I would rather we get rid of Rooney.
Sacrificing - to give up (something valued) for the sake of other considerations.
In this case, Rooney sacrificed his position and playing style to accommodate Ronaldo. Yes it worked, and we were dangerous back then, but Rooney give up something for the team, so of course it's a sacrifice.
You lot can harp on about manager instructions all you like, and yes the ultimate decision is up to the manager, but if Rooney wasn't happy sacrificing himself, a player of his calibre, especially back then, could have arguably walked into most teams in Europe, having the chance to play in his favourite position - up top.
You look at a player like Sturridge - a player that was unhappy playing on the wing for Chelsea - as he wanted to play up top. He left because he wasn't a winger and didn't want to 'sacrifice' himself for the team. He made it clear to the media that he wanted to play up top. Look at him now. There's people in the 'Your England World Cup XI' putting Sturridge ahead of Rooney in the striker role. Why? Because he's been given a chance to get played in his natural position, something Rooney hasn't had the luxury of, due to him being so unselfish for most of his career and doing a job for the team. And yes @markhrad, of course Rooney running 70 yards to cover for a player is more self motivated, rather than being a good team member.
Would you say the same for Welbeck? Like Scholesy said the other day, maybe he does too much work, which may have meant he's already peaked. We saw it the other day for England when he ran 50/60 yards to cover for Lallana's mistake.Paul Scholes
It's the same thing that's currently happening with Welbeck - another player who is apparently unhappy playing on the wing. This time a couple seasons ago people were saying Welbeck was better than Sturridge, and was starting up top in the Euro's. Now the tables have turned and people are saying Welbeck doesn't even come close to Sturridge. See what i'm getting at? Of course it's a sacrifice, and I feel that if Rooney was played in his natural position up top he'd be better than he is now, and judging on the season he had in 09/10 when he actually got the chance to play up top, he probably would have beaten Sir Bobby Charlton's record already.
I know it might sound overly-optimistic, but it would be amazing if Van Gaal could give Nani a clean slate, and Nani in turn, could reward that faith my reverting to his 2010-11 form. If that happens (and I know it's a big if,) then we really wouldn't need to bring in another winger, as Nani in that form, is on par with just about any top winger in the world.
But, but wasn't it his failure to build on that season in the first half of 10/11 that eventually led him to losing that position again ? Wasn't he quoted as being happy to play in the hole behind Chicharito during our run to the CL final in 2011 ? I agree with you that he could have achieved more, on a personal level, had he played upfront for longer but it could also be attributed to his failure to maintain a high level of performances for a sustained period . Rooney allows too many little things to affect his standards, he shags a couple of grannies he turns to shit, he picks up a knock he needs three to four weeks to hit top form, sadly the world doesn't wait for him and neither did Fergie because he signed four strikers, very good to top ones at that, during Rooney's time under him .Sacrificing - to give up (something valued) for the sake of other considerations.
In this case, Rooney sacrificed his position and playing style to accommodate Ronaldo. Yes it worked, and we were dangerous back then, but Rooney give up something for the team, so of course it's a sacrifice.
You lot can harp on about manager instructions all you like, and yes the ultimate decision is up to the manager, but if Rooney wasn't happy sacrificing himself, a player of his calibre, especially back then, could have arguably walked into most teams in Europe, having the chance to play in his favourite position - up top.
You look at a player like Sturridge - a player that was unhappy playing on the wing for Chelsea - as he wanted to play up top. He left because he wasn't a winger and didn't want to 'sacrifice' himself for the team. He made it clear to the media that he wanted to play up top. Look at him now. There's people in the 'Your England World Cup XI' putting Sturridge ahead of Rooney in the striker role. Why? Because he's been given a chance to get played in his natural position, something Rooney hasn't had the luxury of, due to him being so unselfish for most of his career and doing a job for the team. And yes @markhrad, of course Rooney running 70 yards to cover for a player is more self motivated, rather than being a good team member.
Paul Scholes
It's the same thing that's currently happening with Welbeck - another player who is apparently unhappy playing on the wing. This time a couple seasons ago people were saying Welbeck was better than Sturridge, and was starting up top in the Euro's. Now the tables have turned and people are saying Welbeck doesn't even come close to Sturridge. See what i'm getting at? Of course it's a sacrifice, and I feel that if Rooney was played in his natural position up top he'd be better than he is now, and judging on the season he had in 09/10 when he actually got the chance to play up top, he probably would have beaten Sir Bobby Charlton's record already.
I personally don't think it has anything to do with Rooney allowing too many things to affect his standards. I just think because Rooney is so versatile, unfortunately it meant, and still means, he is played everywhere except the actual position he wants to play in. Same goes for Welbeck. People moan that Welbeck doesn't score enough goals. Fecking put him up top then! It's actually not rocket science.
If what you are telling me is that Rooney is unsuited as a captain, then I think you are 100% spot on. He whines whenever things are going against him, and he is anything but a motivator. From our current squad, I'd say that Evra looks the leader out there - never gives up and gives it his all every time. Carrick is too timid, at times appears apprehensive, and DDG, although being more assertive, is a little too quiet yet.
And yes, I do think Rooney is more vocal towards Nani than some other players.
Hmmm, does he divide opinion? I thought 98% were against him - hardly a fair fight for the minority.
Quite a nice article about him in the Fail (sorry).
I originally thought it was written rather awkwardly, like a child or a foreigner, and realised by the end that it was actually written by a Portuguese journalist and the Editor had not seen fit to smarten it up to Fail speak. Considered like that seems all the better for it, shame it's in the Fail, but there you go.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/wo...-prove-theres-Portugal-Cristiano-Ronaldo.html
I originally thought it was written rather awkwardly, like a child or a foreigner, and realised by the end that it was actually written by a Portuguese journalist and the Editor had not seen fit to smarten it up to Fail speak. Considered like that seems all the better for it, shame it's in the Fail, but there you go.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/wo...-prove-theres-Portugal-Cristiano-Ronaldo.html
Its a nice read but the really interesting story that needs to be written is why he had such a difficult season - so many difficult seasons - at Man United. What has gone wrong for him here?
He a wonderful player to watch for Portugal. Regardless of his form for us, he always delivers for his country. Same can be said for most of our good non British players. Why is that I wonder?
Nani seems to be highly rated by the portugese. I think he struggled under traditional British managers who look down upon flair players. I think he could have a lot of joy under van Gaal. He's the archetype LvG winger.
Our system of play in recent years has not benefited players like Nani an awful lot to be honest, we slow down play too often at times, especially this season under Moyes. Not making excuses for him though, it's up to him to adapt as well, hasn't had much luck with injuries either. The Madrid game proved he can step up when he puts his head down though, was our best player before being sent off. Maybe Van Gaal can get the best out of him? Wouldn't be too pushed in selling him but if let's say Juventus are interested and we are trying to buy Vidal/Pogba, we shouldn't think twice to use him as part of the deal.
If you think about it, Van Gaal could certainly get the best out of some of our players again by introducing counter attacking football. The likes of Nani were ridiculously good under that system of play, I even think Cleverley could improve an awful lot.
Nani will thrive under lvg, I'm certain
When he loses all confidence he becomes a useless player, and that was what happened to him last year
Excellent cameo for Portugal tonight. Two assists and was unfortunate to have a wonderful back heel goal disallowed for offside. Promising.
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