Cheeky swap for Ronaldo? 
Luis Nani | 2012/13 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
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Some seem to completely ignore the fact that Nani may have been playing up behind the scenes. There must be a reason why Fergie isn't too happy with Nani after all.
We're a point behind the league leaders, and we've effectively done it without Nani's input. Nani is a fantastic player to have, but I think some are over-rating the impact he has for us. I laugh when some say he's in the top 3 for our most important players.
We're a point behind the league leaders, and we've effectively done it without Nani's input. Nani is a fantastic player to have, but I think some are over-rating the impact he has for us. I laugh when some say he's in the top 3 for our most important players.
Anyone who either prefers Ashley Young to Nani, or genuinely believes Ashley Young is a better footballer than Nani is an absolute fecking idiot.
Quite often being voted the best player over the course of a season by your teammates means you are... The best player in the team over the course of around 50 games, which is exactly what Nani was the last time we won a trophy. He was a better player than Rooney for that season.
I'm not really sure what your point is re: the bolded part. No-one is saying that Nani instantly became the best player in the squad simply because of a PoTY award, I was illustrating how important he was to our squad when he was being picked regularly.
I disagree with the "doesn't produce the goods often enough". His productivity is phenomenal whenever he gets a run of games. Some players can produce when brought on for 30 mins and then left out for 2-3 games, Hernandez this season being a prime example. Nani has never been this kind of player, he only shone once Ronaldo left and was a guaranteed starter every week. He's exactly like Rooney in this respect.
Fergie either needs to start Nani in the majority of our games and watch him inevitably find his World Class form of 10-11, or get rid of him and watch him find it elsewhere.
You are asking why someone is completely ignoring what they don't know? Maybe because it's not a fact, and no-one would know if he was/wasn't, so why even bother making the assumption - especially when we do know there is a contract issue, which already makes sense of the current situation.
I would, I much prefer his style on the wings, which is more team orientated and more akin to the way modern wingers are increasingly having to play, and I am keen for Welbeck to continue developing. Couple that with Nanis lack of consistency regarding his form, and you can see my point.
I do like Nani but I'm not hugely convinced that the policy of getting the ball out to him, and waiting for him to either score/assist or completely balls it up is the way forward. Welbeck on the other hand, he passes and moves, comes inside, tracks back, can intercange with his teammates with ease and contributes a great deal to our general play, which is usually consistent, good to watch and effective when he's around.
Also, it's not completely mental, seeing as he's started there more than Nani in recent time.
Nani does all those things plus is far better crosser/dribbler. Which only leaves, well you want Welbeck to continue developing, which fair enough is your opinion.
Noone can see your point because it's shit.
Not a traditional winger no, but more of a wide player in the vein of Rooney when we had Ronaldo.
I honestly think our general play is a lot better with Welbeck as a wide forward, and the tactics that selection entails, rather than a hit a miss Nani, and everything that entails.
I'm getting lots of laughing smileys but it's not completely absurd, at least not in the managers mind, judging by selections of recent time.
Mainly because of the contract situation and Fergie wanting to play Rooney and RvP as well so when Welbeck plays he's put into a wide position.
It has nothing to do with how effective both of them are, as Nani is definitely more effective on the left than Welbeck. All of the things you say there also apply to Nani.
I disagree that he does those things as well as Welbeck, but like you say, it is an opinion.
Welbeck is one of the most intelligent players on the team, and I think he's one of the common factors in all our best performances over the last year so should start.
so how much is he earning with us now ?
The same thing could be said in my favour then. Why do people assume that there is nothing going behind the scenes? What I've heard from fans, they think Nani is simply being pushed out because his contract negotiations is going sour. That very well could be the case - but there's been stories about him playing up, acting like he's a bigger "shot" than he actually is. Petrucci did have that black eye...
You are right in saying assumptions shouldn't be made - I apologise for actually making one. But as I said, I could say people are just assuming that there's nothing in it.
We may never know.
People were saying he's the best player in the squad, he's better than Robben and Ribery, world class, etc. when in reality he had a good few months from the start of the season then dropped off at the business end, supposedly due to a bad tackle, and he hasn't kicked on since.
Once again, Nani has never been an automatic starter he's always played intermittently except when other players have been injured. How many games do you think we start Nani for before he starts to play well?
Petrucci got that black eye from Nani, nobody's saying any different.
Face it, nobody knows what the feck is going on so we're going off what we've heard, which is stalled contract negotiations. That's the be-all and end all of what we actually know.
It's not that we're not assuming something is going on behind the scenes, nor are we assuming that something is going on behind the scenes. How can we discuss something we know nothing about? That's what you're asking us to do, speculate.
That's all speculation, no one can say for certain, after all Nani was dropped for Park/Valencia on many occasions, whilst in the form of his entire life and everything hunky dory with his contract.
Let's not act like its solely the contract keeping Nani out, its a combination of that, the competition hes facing, his inconsistency and poor form, and perhaps even his style of play which has resulted in him being so far down the pecking order at this moment in time.
Nani's problem isn't necessarily consistency, its the fact he lacks the intelligent decision making needed to impose his fantastic ability on games regularly. He has improved this since joining us but not as much as Fergie probably had hoped by now. If he was impressing more than others in training he would be in the team every week.
Nani v Welbeck is a pretty irrelevant debate considering they are at very different stages of their development and their best positions are not the same. They actually link up well together when they are both in the team. Nani is obviously the superior left winger but Welbeck is developing into an excellent intelligent and versatile player who offers assets to the team when he plays there that Nani doesn't.
You can be sure of one thing though, its far more likely that Welbeck will still be at the club in five years time than it is Nani, even if he survives this speculation storm.
Nani v Welbeck is a pretty irrelevant debate considering they are at very different stages of their development and their best positions are not the same. They actually link up well together when they are both in the team. Nani is obviously the superior left winger but Welbeck is developing into an excellent intelligent and versatile player who offers assets to the team when he plays there that Nani doesn't.
You can be sure of one thing though, its far more likely that Welbeck will still be at the club in five years time than it is Nani, even if he survives this speculation storm.
Well put, and I tend to think those assets you speak of are more worthwhile to the team in general.
Reading this thread Nani has become the new Berbatov in how wide the divide is on opinions of him.
Anyway, hope he starts tonight, there really is no reason for him not to given the game we have coming up on Saturday and the game we just had.
Anyway, hope he starts tonight, there really is no reason for him not to given the game we have coming up on Saturday and the game we just had.
Ah, the Caf. Where else would strikers be better wingers than actual wingers?
Yeah, but it's Danny Welbeck. He's still developing and has way too many flaws. Villa is an outstanding footballer.
Because he's just as good as Welbeck.
From that Telegraph article:
Now who these sources are & what credence can be attached to them we don't know, but this suggests that SAF want's to keep him but Nani is not satisfied with the offer on the table.
It would be a terrible shame to let him go, after Giggs/Scholes he ranks as my favourite player at United and his departure would, for me, only rank behind Ruud's exit in terms of disappointment. Life goes on though.
There is still time to sort this out & lets hope it is before the end of the season.
Now who these sources are & what credence can be attached to them we don't know, but this suggests that SAF want's to keep him but Nani is not satisfied with the offer on the table.
It would be a terrible shame to let him go, after Giggs/Scholes he ranks as my favourite player at United and his departure would, for me, only rank behind Ruud's exit in terms of disappointment. Life goes on though.
There is still time to sort this out & lets hope it is before the end of the season.
Nani doesn't lack intelligence, he always links up well with players, off all our wingers he's more often the one to make a darting run inside at the right moment. So far he's shown the best link up/understanding with Kagawa both in pre season and on the pitch. I think people are confusing selfishness/risk taking with intelligence. As I've said before Giggs is a player constantly praised for his footballing brain atm yet he gives the ball away a lot just like nani, and that's cause they're both risk takers not cause they're dumb. Now of course that can frustrate, particularly when they get it wrong, which atm Nani is a bit too often as he's out of form but that's not to say he lacks football intelligence.
That wasn't my goal. I do apologise if that's the angle it seems I'm going for. I've just heard/read more opinions from United fans believing that we should just offer what Nani wants because "he deserves it since he's a top quality player". That just annoys me. I just get the vibe that people are assuming that we're the ones being unfair, and not Nani's demands.
My whole point was that despite Nani being a good player, I think people are over-rating how important he is to the club.
Yeah, well that wasn't the implication of his post, he was implying that it's completely ridiculous to play strikers out wide instead of normal wingers, and asked where else would it occur.
Well it occurred at Barcelona, probably the best club side of recent times, where Pedro, who was also brought through as a forward, plays out wide. Aguero has played wide for city, Henry used to do it, as did Rooney, as does Podolski, as did Eto'o and more others.
Not completely outlandish is it? I don't think it's any more so than playing an attacking midfielder out wide, a la Mata, Silva, Hazard, Nasri.
He lacks intelligence in terms of decision making i.e. choosing the right pass, when to keep it simple and when to take risks, when to go on the outside and when to cut in, etc.
Nobody get these decisions right all the time but Nani gets them wrong far too often for a player of his ability and this leaves him open to critiscm and sort of undermines the fact he is a fantastic player who can be a match winner.
Nobody get these decisions right all the time but Nani gets them wrong far too often for a player of his ability and this leaves him open to critiscm and sort of undermines the fact he is a fantastic player who can be a match winner.
That's a fair point, definitely.
Fair enough, no complaints here then.
In my opinion he's a very important talisman who we can look to when we need a few ideas.
There's a slight, SLIGHT difference between how Barca use "wide" players, and how we do. Just saying.
Well there never used to be as much of a difference if you think back to our last CL victory and Rooney playing on the left practically all season.
And, I don't think SAF is as stuck in his ways as much people on here, perhaps he is happy to adopt a different style?
Perhaps it might have served you well to realise, or read my posts, in order to grasp that I wasn't advocating Welbeck to be a left winger of the same ilk as Nani, just for him to play on the left and provide an option similar to other 433/451s that have been successful recently.
In my opinion, United need two Nanis to complete our attack. If we could keep him and add Isco, for example, then we'd be firing on all cylinders once again. Sadly, we're probably going backwards and selling Nani. Hopefully we bring in someone top quality to replace him and not another touchline-hugging winger.
Another reason that speaks for Nani is his ability to play quick balls or exchange passes - now with our new set up, this could really blossom together with Kagawa, Rooney, RvP, Welbeck etc.
Four and a half years back?
Yes, before we reverted back to the more traditional 442 and the wing play that comes with that.
I don't see it myself, Nani is comfortably better than Welbeck on either of the wings, and it's a position he's far more dangerous in, as well as naturally suited towards. I would accept that if you're in for the argument of giving time to Welbeck because Nani isn't in our future plans, then I'd understand a bit more, but if it's purely in terms of quality, then I'm still lost, as Nani offers far more on the wings.
As in, used actual wingers on the wing? For four and a half years...
Barcelona don't play a rigid 442 like we tend to do, and a front 3 of Messi/Villa/Pedro/Sanchez is slightly more fluent and mobile than a 3 of Rooney/Welbeck/RVP. Comparing the way Barca use "wide forwards" and the way we utilise them is moronic, as the two teams play with different styles.
City lack width as it is. They have no out and out wingers like we have in the form of Valencia, and the players who are "wide" for them drift in ie. Silva/Nasri. Infact the only way City acquire width is by playing 3 at the back, with Zabaleta and Clichy/Kolarov acting as wing backs - and we all know how successful that tactic has been for them so far.
It's not completely outlandish, no. Attacking midfielders are much more versatile now, and by being able to drift it means that it makes life difficult for a defensive midfielder to man mark them as it drags them out of position. I don't see why people say attacking midfielders "playing out wide" - they don't constantly play out wide in the way that Valencia does, but they have the ability to play out wide if necessary.
What makes Nani great on the wings is his ambidextrous ability, and the fact that defenders are caught in two minds whether to allow him inside to shoot, or to let him put a cross in with an equally strong foot. With Welbeck there's no dilema, just don't let him inside to link up with the central striker. I understand given Nani's contract situation if you were saying that we should be playing Welbeck there incase Nani leaves and it would improve another dimension to Danny's game, but going on ability alone there's absolutely no logic in choosing Welbeck over Nani to play out wide.
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