Luis Nani | 2012/13 Performances

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That's the disturbing thing, I can actually see it happening like that.

If we were half as good at selling in the transfer market as we are at signing commercial sponsorship deals it might be a little less frightening thinking about people leaving.
 
What do I expect?

United to give themselves a kick up the arse and realise that short of going out and signing a Ronaldo, or a Bale, there is next to no chance of replacing Nani with a player of equal quality without spending a lot more money than they recieve for him - so they're far better off just sorting out his contract.

People say he's had a crap season but he's still contributed more than Valencia and Young have in half the gametime.
 
JB7 said:
What do I expect?

United to give themselves a kick up the arse and realise that short of going out and signing a Ronaldo, or a Bale, there is next to no chance of replacing Nani with a player of equal quality without spending a lot more money than they recieve for him - so they're far better off just sorting out his contract.

People say he's had a crap season but he's still contributed more than Valencia and Young have in half the games.
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Of course there isn't, but clearly SAF is unwilling to give him what he wants and he's out of favour with us. He'll be sold, and it won't be for that much due to the contract situation, the dismal season and the fact that he's barely getting games for us.

It's obviously a sad state of affairs but it's what's likely to happen.
 
JB7 said:
What do I expect?

United to give themselves a kick up the arse and realise that short of going out and signing a Ronaldo, or a Bale, there is next to no chance of replacing Nani with a player of equal quality without spending a lot more money than they recieve for him - so they're far better off just sorting out his contract.

People say he's had a crap season but he's still contributed more than Valencia and Young have in half the gametime.
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No he hasn't.
 
Adebesi said:
That's the disturbing thing, I can actually see it happening like that.

If we were half as good at selling in the transfer market as we are at signing commercial sponsorship deals it might be a little less frightening thinking about people leaving.
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Exactly. it's not like we're known for getting big amounts of money when we sell players, especially when it's clear they want to go or SAF wants rid, and that's really the only time we do sell our players, when SAF has had enough of them, therefore we're not likely to get what they're worth, apart from with Ronaldo who SAF did not want to sell.
 
Cina said:
Of course there isn't, but clearly SAF is unwilling to give him what he wants and he's out of favour with us. He'll be sold, and it won't be for that much due to the contract situation, the dismal season and the fact that he's barely getting games for us.

It's obviously a sad state of affairs but it's what's likely to happen.
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It was widely reported in most newspapers August last year that he dropped the wage demands - which quite frankly didn't appear to be outrageous anyway when compared to others at the club.

Nani drops wage demands
 
KM said:
No he hasn't.
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Cina said:
Hmm, goals and assists wise he has more than both combined (or did up until two weeks ago) I think. Whether he meant that or his overall performances (which is far more debatable), I'm not sure.
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That's what I meant yes. In other games where he has been slated he's laid on chance after chance - in one of the Champions League group games, he was hammered for his performance and was taken off, yet but for the striker missing sitters he'd have had 4 assists to his name that day.

If people want to criticise his performances fair enough - but at least he's still making chances while playing badly. Valencia and Young this season have been awful for large periods, and when they play badly they contribute nothing whatsoever.
 
Cina said:
Hmm, goals and assists wise he has more than both combined (or did up until two weeks ago) I think. Whether he meant that or his overall performances (which is far more debatable), I'm not sure.
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I'm not counting Young as he's not in the class of Nani/Valencia.

Stats wise he's right but his performances hasn't been great. The fact that Young and Valencia are having crap seasons shouldn't change the fact Nani has also had a crap season.

It shouldn't be a surprise that we're trying to sell him as we came very close to selling him last season. I'm not sure though if Fergie doesn't recognize his quality because he started our most important in this season and then also started the FA Cup Quarterfinal against Chelsea. It's all very strange.

Edit: Fair enough, I thought you were talking about the performances rather than the stats.
 
Cina said:
It's also widely reported that we tried to sell him to Zenit.

Maybe SAF just ... doesn't want him?
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I remember it well, couldn't for the life of me understand that at the time and still don't.

I'd understand SAF not wanting him if the other two players he competes with for a place were playing well - but they aren't playing well. And there's no one that can say they have anywhere near the ability he has either. I don't understand SAF on this one, I really don't.
 
KM said:
I'm not counting Young as he's not in the class of Nani/Valencia.

Stats wise he's right but his performances hasn't been great. The fact that Young and Valencia are having crap seasons shouldn't change the fact Nani has also had a crap season.

It shouldn't be a surprise that we're trying to sell him as we came very close to selling him last season. I'm not sure though if Fergie doesn't recognize his quality because he started our most important in this season and then also started the FA Cup Quarterfinal against Chelsea.
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I think he was talking about stats though, to be fair. EDIT: Just saw your edit, it's all good :)

I won't even attempt to figure out who has been the better player between Nani and Valencia this season, it's like grabbing two massive piles of horse shit and asking "which one smells the least awful?"
 
Cina said:
I think he was talking about stats though, to be fair. EDIT: Just saw your edit, it's all good :)

I won't even attempt to figure out who has been the better player between Nani and Valencia this season, it's like grabbing two massive piles of horse shit and asking "which one smells the least awful?"
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:lol:

So true and considering our reliance on wing play in the past seasons, it's quite surprising that we've won the Premier League title with ease. It's like Barcelona winning the La Liga with Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta all playing crap football throughout the season.
 
Either we underrate our players or overrate our players. Nani is neither terrible, nor like Messi or Ronaldo. He had a storming season before last and he definitely didn't deserve a place in the bench in the start of our seasons, and Fergie made it clear that it was only because of his contractual disputes and not because of his talent. Who knows what kind of season Nani would have had, if he was in the starting line up all year?

What has happened has happened. Can Nani in his top form improve this team? Hell yeah. Does Fergie trust Nani to deliver? We'll have to wait and see, and trust what Fergie does. That's all we can say for now. I think Mungy's stance that he's best sold is a load of bollocks, Fergie probably will take into account a lot more things like his wage demands and his attitude during the contract wrangle into account.
 
JB7 said:
I remember it well, couldn't for the life of me understand that at the time and still don't.

I'd understand SAF not wanting him if the other two players he competes with for a place were playing well - but they aren't playing well. And there's no one that can say they have anywhere near the ability he has either. I don't understand SAF on this one, I really don't.
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Yeah it's rather strange and it's not like that Fergie doesn't recognize Nani's quality. If that was the case, there's no chance in hell Nani would've started against Real at OT or against Chelsea at OT.
 
KM said:
:lol:

So true and considering our reliance on wing play in the past seasons, it's quite surprising that we've won the Premier League title with ease. It's like Barcelona winning the La Liga with Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta all playing crap football throughout the season.
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The biggest thing for me (aside from RvP of course) is that when Michael Carrick gets the ball, his first instinct isn't to automatically drill it out wide to Valencia/Nani and hope they produce a bit of magic. he actually tries to do it through the middle, which is a breath of fresh air in my eyes.
 
Adebesi said:
He started him in the Real game, which is a massive vote of confidence.
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And he was one of our best players that night, until he was wrongly sent off. Think he's only played twice since then...
 
Adebesi said:
He started him in the Real game, which is a massive vote of confidence.
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When Nani plays well, Fergie has no hesitation to start him in the next game, I suppose the problem is, when he plays shit he'll drop him far quicker than most other players.

I think Fergie simply looks at Nani in the same way a lot of us do, a player who has enough talent to be one of the best players in the world, but just hasn't ever really gotten there, and it probably frustrates him.

JB7 said:
And he was one of our best players that night, until he was wrongly sent off. Think he's only played twice since then...
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he started the next game vs Chelsea, to be fair, and he was god awful, and rightly dropped after it.
 
Cina said:
When Nani plays well, Fergie has no hesitation to start him in the next game, I suppose the problem is, when he plays shit he'll drop him far quicker than most other players.

I think Fergie simply looks at Nani in the same way a lot of us do, a player who has enough talent to be one of the best players in the world, but just hasn't ever really gotten there, and it probably frustrates him.
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Probably something to do with every time he gets a run of games together where he's playing well, he knows that as soon as he has a bad hour or so in a game he'll be hauled off and dropped for the next game. That's gone on pretty much right the way through his career here.

EDIT: And yeah that would be fine if every player was dropped after one poor performance. But with all due respect Valencia has had 6/7/8 games in a row this season where he's been awful in all of them.
 
But I do still hold a small sliver of hope that it is all part of his plan to motivate him to achieve those heights, all part of his famed man management. Though far more likely it is part of his equally famous habit of completely freezing players out, a la Berbs.
 
Cina said:
he started the next game vs Chelsea, to be fair, and he was god awful, and rightly dropped after it.
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Nah he got injured in that Chelsea match and thus was subbed off. He came back in the FA Cup replay against Chelsea and was awful.
 
the reason why this season can't be a true indicator of Nani's performances is because of the contract disputes. But him being a confidence player, he requires to be played in majority of matches and with having players like welbeck, kagawa and chicarito, this could be a problem.

Dilemma. I really like Nani, but he really needs to pull up his socks next season, if Fergie is to trust him. Don't know where to place Rooney now, although with respect to Rooney, it's all speculation.
 
JB7 said:
£12m for a player of his quality? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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JB7 said:
What do I expect?

United to give themselves a kick up the arse and realise that short of going out and signing a Ronaldo, or a Bale, there is next to no chance of replacing Nani with a player of equal quality without spending a lot more money than they recieve for him - so they're far better off just sorting out his contract.
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- Give him 50k per week more than we're prepared to.
- Set a standard for other players and agents. Over the next few years end up giving in to 10 other players' wage requests, paying on average 20k more per week.

Over 4 years that's 50 million extra spent on wages.

Obviously these figures are speculative, but you can see why selling for 10-15m could actually be the sensible financial decision in the long run, rather than giving in every time a player's agent decides to play hard ball over a contract. Nani is a great player on his day but he's not irreplaceable. He's shown that this season.
 
Rowem said:
- Give him 50k per week more than we're prepared to.
- Set a standard for other players and agents. Over the next few years end up giving in to 10 other players' wage requests, paying on average 20k more per week.

Over 4 years that's 50 million extra spent on wages.

Obviously these figures are speculative, but you can see why selling for 10-15m could actually be the sensible financial decision in the long run, rather than giving in every time a player's agent decides to play hard ball over a contract. Nani is a great player on his day but he's not irreplaceable. He's shown that this season.
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Wait, how is 20k per week extra translate to 50 million over 40 years?
 
TheReligion said:
He has scored more goals and has more assists than both Val and Young

Productivity wise he has been better easily
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Nani has 2 assists. Young has 3. Valencia has 4.

Nani has 3 goals. Young has 0. Valencia has 1.

No really much in it. None of them really had the season we were expecting them to have, especially as Valencia and Nani ended last season in very potent form.
 
Rowem said:
Obviously these figures are speculative, but you can see why selling for 10-15m could actually be the sensible financial decision in the long run, rather than giving in every time a player's agent decides to play hard ball over a contract. Nani is a great player on his day but he's not irreplaceable. He's shown that this season.
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I hate this argument, nevermind about which player are we talking. Every player is replaceable, we proved that so many times over the years.

We had Ronaldo, and showed he is repleacable(not individually, but we are doing just fine since he left). We didn't have van Persie in last few years, and we won Premiership with Welbeck, Chicharito and Berbatov leading the attack, played two champions league finals...
Rooney isn't playing his best season, and he was dropped for arguably our toughest game this season(vs Madrid), and even in away game against Real Madrid we didn't really "use" him, and yet we almost beat them if there wasn't for that red card.
 
JB7 said:
Probably something to do with every time he gets a run of games together where he's playing well, he knows that as soon as he has a bad hour or so in a game he'll be hauled off and dropped for the next game. That's gone on pretty much right the way through his career here.

EDIT: And yeah that would be fine if every player was dropped after one poor performance. But with all due respect Valencia has had 6/7/8 games in a row this season where he's been awful in all of them.
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Big difference is when Valencia is not doing it in attack he is still defensively sound and he reverts to the simple pass, where as Nani is never the greatest in defense and however off his game he might be he continues attempting the difficult. Very admirable in a lot of ways and occasionally will save/win you a game. However it's easy to understand why any manager might just prefer the stability offered by Valencia if both are not near their best.
 
Jesus, how hard is it to discuss players in isolation?

Fergie will have his own opinion on whether Young/Valencia are worthy of their place in the squad and worth hanging on to in the hope they'll have a better season in 13/14.

This has absolutely feck all with the decision he has to make about whether Nani is worth the wage and (alleged) demands re appearances or if he should get rid of a player who never made a convincing case this season that he's kicked on from some great performances in the past.

Whether or not it's worth persisting with Valencia and Young is a different issue, with different considerations.
 
Fair play that Nani might give away the ball more but you could equally say Valencia holds up play more having to always keep the ball on his right. Plus the defensive aspect of Nani's game is pretty underrated.
 
Ash_G said:
Fair play that Nani might give away the ball more but you could equally say Valencia holds up play more having to always keep the ball on his right. Plus the defensive aspect of Nani's game is pretty underrated.
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Always thought this. His tackling in particular has improved hugely in the past 2 or 3 years. Valencia tracks back and works hard, but in terms of stopping his opponent and winning the ball back, I don't think he's as good as Nani. He's very good at timing challenges and not letting his man slip past with the ball.

I hope he doesn't leave, but it seems like it's going to happen based on his lack of involvement. quite harsh considering he was one of our best players against Madrid at home, and he got sent off for something very soft.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Jesus, how hard is it to discuss players in isolation?

Fergie will have his own opinion on whether Young/Valencia are worthy of their place in the squad and worth hanging on to in the hope they'll have a better season in 13/14.
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Valencia has had chance after chance this season despite being terrible 90% of the time. The same hasn't been afforded to Nani. Sir Alex has his reasons though as you say, it's just sad to see such a talented player not getting game time and most likely leaving the club.
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
Always thought this. His tackling in particular has improved hugely in the past 2 or 3 years. Valencia tracks back and works hard, but in terms of stopping his opponent and winning the ball back, I don't think he's as good as Nani. He's very good at timing challenges and not letting his man slip past with the ball.

I hope he doesn't leave, but it seems like it's going to happen based on his lack of involvement. quite harsh considering he was one of our best players against Madrid at home, and he got sent off for something very soft.
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Seriously? Valencia's one of the best tacklers in our team. Way better at that sort of thing than Nani (whose defensive effort/ability has improved a lot over the last few years)

But yeah, we're going in circles.
 
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